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JPP and Eli: They carried us in 2011, we need them now

Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/22/2013 2:58 pm
The first win against Dallas in 2011 was a 2 man carry job. JPP having a legendary game and Eli having perhaps his most unlikely 4th quarter comeback ever (my favorite non-SB comeback). It's just such a big contrast from what we've seen from those 2 this year. In 2011, the Giants had the best combination of QB + star defensive player in the league. In 2013, LOL.

The pass rush and passing game have been 2 of the major issues on this team. And it starts at the top, JPP and Eli are supposed to be our best players on both sides of the ball but they haven't been. They both started the season out playing like crap, JPP has slowly kept improving as he regained his health while Eli is finally showing signs of life.

Our season is on the line against Dallas once more, we don't need a 2011 performance from these 2 but if they can play close to their 2011 level this team can hang with any in football. The pass rush and passing game are the weak links on the team right now, the rest of the team actually looks pretty good now that Beason and Brown have added new dimensions to the team with their arrivals.

If our star QB and DE can play at the level we know they're capable of, this team will start looking pretty damn good. And the league will start to realize what's about to hit them again. But it starts with those 2 playing well against Dallas, they've had disappointing seasons but we desperately need them to show up now. We did a great job grinding out 4 wins and clawing back into the picture against 4 crappy teams, but to beat teams that are actually good we will need our 2 best players to play like it.

Sunday can't get here fast enough.
Osi  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/22/2013 3:59 pm : link
bingo...those are the two who carried us in 2011, and because they did not reach that level in 2012 and thus far this season, it's why we are worse.
Can't speak To JPP,  
Big Blue '56 : 11/22/2013 4:01 pm : link
But it's Eli time..Just you watch
JPP needs to dominate Smith  
GIANTSr01 : 11/22/2013 4:02 pm : link
and Eli-Nicks need to find their groove. If those two can start connecting like they have in the past, the offense can finally get going.
it's the main reason  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/22/2013 6:38 pm : link
why I still believe that this team has the talent to make some noise.

2013 team w/o JPP + Eli
2011 team w/o JPP + Eli

I think the 2013 roster is arguably better, except for our top 2. Eli and JPP played like 1st ballot Hall of Famers in 2011, they're playing like crap this year. At the end of the day, I think it's as simple as that and if they can pick up their level of play this team will look like a totally different group.
well  
MookGiants : 11/22/2013 6:40 pm : link
it is a fact that Eli is worse in 2013, but with the offensive line Jerry Reese has put together, it's not hard to figure out why he is worse. The run blocking has been bad for a while but the pass blocking has been atrocious this year and even last year
the pass blocking was terrible in 2011  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/22/2013 6:42 pm : link
the OT situation was worse, the interior of the line is probably worse this year. But that 2011 OL was pretty damn bad, yet Eli displayed far better pocket presence and decision making.

I love Eli, but I definitely blame this season more on Eli than the OL. Because I saw what he did with that OL in 2011.
the interior  
Dave in MD : 11/22/2013 6:47 pm : link
was much better in 2011 than this year. Eli had room to step up a good deal of the time. Our interior has been really bad. Eli can compensate for bad tackle play. Not as easy for bad OC and OG play. Also, RB in pass pro was a lot better in 2011. Bradshaw was one of the best in the league. Basically Eli has been hit every week like he was in that SF playoff game. That takes it's toll over the course of a season.
here's an article from PFF  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/22/2013 7:00 pm : link
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/22/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-1/

They graded the Giants OL as 31st in the NFL in 2011. 24th in rushing, and 32nd in pass pro.

32nd in pass pro. I don't take PFF as gospel but those guys tend to be right far more often than they're wrong and I think most of us agree that the 2011 OL was pathetic and that Eli and the WRs carried that passing attack despite the OL.

I know that the interior of our OL has been worse this year than 2011, but the tackle play has been better. As a whole, I just refuse to believe that the 2013 line is THAT much worse than a 2011 line that was arguably the worst in the league.

Good point on the RBs in pass pro, that's an edge to 2013 as well. But there's just no way the difference between the OLines in 2011 and 2013 is large enough to explain Eli's performance. Eli played like a Legend in 2011 and he's playing like Rex Grossman this year, you can't put that on the OL when they already sucked so badly in 2011.
Good thread.  
Ira : 11/22/2013 7:01 pm : link
If those two start playing their best game we can beat anyone.
RBs in pass pro is an edge to 2011  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/22/2013 7:01 pm : link
.
I don't buy those PFF rankings  
Dave in MD : 11/22/2013 7:03 pm : link
Eli has no room to step up this year. He did most of the time that year, though McKenzie was consistently awful at tackle. There is a reason the A gap blitz has destroyed this team while it didn't that year. PFF personifies that Jim Mora, Sr. quote really well. You think you know, but you don't know and you never will.
I don't think those PFF rankings are that off  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/22/2013 7:10 pm : link
most of us here at the time killed the Giants OL, especially Diehl.

PFF ranked the Giants OL 31st in 2011. Let's say they're wrong and be nice to that 2011 Giants OL. Let's say they were 25th in the NFL that year. There's no way I'd rank that OL any better than 25th in 2011, I think the hatred for this 2013 OL is clouding your judgment about how awful that 2011 OL was. So let's just say they were the 25th ranked OL in 2011.

2011 OL: 25th (being nice here remember)
2013 OL: 32nd

2011 QB: 4th (Rodgers, Brady, Brees)
2013 QB: ~27th

Yes, the OL may be even worse this year than it was in 2011. But the difference isn't massive by any means. The difference between Eli's performance in 2011 and 2013 on the other hand has been enormous.
Can we please add Nicks into the equation too?  
BlueLou : 11/22/2013 7:20 pm : link
Get all 3 of them playing at levels they have previously demonstrated and this team would be a different club performance-wise.
It's not just 2013; Eli has been an awful QB, on the whole, since  
Riggies : 11/22/2013 7:39 pm : link
about mid last season. Not inconsistent like he's always been, but just flat out bad, with only a couple bright or bright-ish spots.

The OL is putrid, fine, but the problem isn't just about them, no matter how badly the fleet of excuse makers keep trying to bang that drum. There's something broken in Manning himself, as a player, and while I'm not saying he's forever shot, expecting anything more from him this season than maybe another game or two like the okay performance against GB and the rest being much like the other three wins doesn't seem prudent. He seems to need some sort of serious reboot, if he's ever to get back to 7-12 QB quality, and you're not very likely to get that now, in season, with how long he's been "lost."

JPP hasn't been great, but he's not been awful either. More mediocre (thanks at least to his quality run blocking), which provides some grounds to reasonably hope or expect a snap-to-quality with him.
Maybe Manning hasn't jumped the shark but  
mamamia : 11/22/2013 8:38 pm : link
his days of growing his QB play might be over. I hope not
They both need to get "hot" along with Nicks  
SGMen : 11/22/2013 9:01 pm : link
This team will win on Sunday if Eli is efficient and JPP gets some pressure and run stuffs. Nicks needs to emerge as the Nicks of 2011.

I just have that "feeling" in my gut that we are going to see our best game from all on Sunday.

Giants 27-23 over Cowboys. Boys score late to make it seem closer than it really was.
Nicks doesn't have it  
Dave in N.Westchester : 11/22/2013 9:34 pm : link
physically any more. The 2011 season may have been Manning's high water mark. He may never be that good again. JPP is another story. When he is 100% then we will see.
I think the prime time comeback win in 2011 against Dallas  
Bino5 : 11/23/2013 1:24 pm : link
Is the best game I've ever seen Eli play. The offensive line was beat all night long. Eli had to avoid the rush on every play and constantly throw on the move and was on the money.
why is it up to just these 2 men?  
SHO'NUFF : 11/23/2013 2:55 pm : link
it's a team game. If anybody needs to step up, it's Boothe, Cordle, Diehl and Nicks.
fatherhood  
spike : 11/23/2013 4:02 pm : link
might have zapped a lot out of Eli. i really think so..
How did that prayer  
mamamia : 11/24/2013 8:05 pm : link
work out
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