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Phillip Rivers

Geeman : 12/13/2013 10:41 am
I don't care what anyone says, I like the guy. I love the way he plays QB with fire and emotion. I've got no problems with that at all. Kind of reminds me of Marino a bit.
He may go down as one of the most underrated QBs of this era.
I know it's a long shot but of all the teams in the field, I'd like to see SD win the Chip this season. Great win by them in Denver last night.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 10:46 am : link
Seems like their new system has really done wonders for him. He's been outstanding this year. Last year he didn't look right and he threw 20 picks in 2011.. but this is probably going to wind up being his best year as a pro and if it can happen like that for him, it can happen for Eli too. I just hope we make some changes before it's too late.
Can't stand him  
Lionhart28 : 12/13/2013 10:46 am : link
Horribly ugly throwing motion and comes off as super douchey to me, but hey, that's just me. He's playing great this year though.
Jackson and Allen  
old man : 12/13/2013 10:46 am : link
really let him do what he does best, pass, and takes the pressure off the running game.Then both end up successful.
And the SD 'D' did another fine job.
PR must be thrilled: KO'd both Mannings in 4 days.
I think he gets killed, a little unfairly  
kmed : 12/13/2013 10:49 am : link
because he is such a douchey guy. Fire is one thing, but he's a complete douch. For example....last night there was a play when his receiver got held. The flag was thrown, they were given the first down. The defender started to complain to the ref. Any normal person accepts the first down and moves on. This idiot has to yell at the defender and tell him all about how it really was a penalty. That's just douchy.
The guy was getting into arguements with fans in the stands  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 12/13/2013 10:54 am : link
In a playoff game one year. Douche
He is a dick but he is an accurate one  
Jimmy Googs : 12/13/2013 10:57 am : link
.
Hell he went to the same school i went to  
Jints in Carolina : 12/13/2013 10:57 am : link
and I still can't stand him.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 11:01 am : link
If he was our QB, we'd probably all be defending him and just say it was "fire" or "passion".

That stuff doesn't really matter to me much. It shouldn't supersede his ability as a player but for whatever reason, it usually does.
arc - technically he was our QB...  
Drewcon40 : 12/13/2013 11:02 am : link
...for about 15 minutes.
This is a perfect example why Eli needs a new OC  
Jay on the Island : 12/13/2013 11:04 am : link
Rivers played poorly the past two years and this season with a new staff he his having by far the best year of his career.
If he was our guy, you wouldn't think it was "douchy"  
HomerJones45 : 12/13/2013 11:06 am : link
and he is very accurate with that throwing motion.

The year he threw 20 picks, he also threw for 27 td's and 4600 yards.

Rivers is very, very good qb and underrated.
I think he gets killed unfairly because BBI is one huge vagina  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:06 am : link
that from day one felt the need to downplay his talent and exaggerate his personality in order to prop up Eli. Even when we were winning Super Bowls.

Quote:
I think he gets killed, a little unfairly
kmed : 10:49 am : link : reply
because he is such a douchey guy.
I don't love his arm and lack of mobility  
JOMO25 : 12/13/2013 11:07 am : link
but do like his demeanor and accuracy
I can't stand the guy.  
AnishPatel : 12/13/2013 11:08 am : link
He is Mr. Stats of the AFC, while Romo is Mr stats of the NFC. Rivers got a new system and is doing well. In our system, if Rivers throw a perfect accurate pass into the end zone, he would have to contend with the fact it may get picked off or go for an incompletion because instead of running a go, our WR ran a square in.

If any Giants fan wants to see better QB play change our system. All these QBs are on their 2nd and some on their 3rd system. We still are on our first.
This is also true mr filthy.  
kmed : 12/13/2013 11:08 am : link
I am able to separate the guy from the football player, so I am fully aware of how good he is, but I still hate him. I think he's a massive ahole.
THIS.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:08 am : link
Quote:
If he was our guy, you wouldn't think it was "douchy"
HomerJones45 : 11:06 am


Always this. BBI would have adored Ray Lewis if he was a Giant.
Same thing happened to rivers yesterday Anish.  
kmed : 12/13/2013 11:09 am : link
Allen ran a post, Rivers threw a flag in the back corner of the endzone. Allen read the defense wrong and ran the wrong route. Mr. Rivers was not happy and didn't mind showing the world.
RE: THIS.  
Greg from LI : 12/13/2013 11:11 am : link
In comment 11392679 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


Quote:


If he was our guy, you wouldn't think it was "douchy"
HomerJones45 : 11:06 am



Always this. BBI would have adored Ray Lewis if he was a Giant.


Speak for yourself.
I can't speak for anyone else,  
kmed : 12/13/2013 11:12 am : link
but I would absolutely think he was douchey if he was a Giant. Again, fully realizing that has nothing to do with him as a football player, but too many times he's done douchey things. It is what it is.
Right.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:13 am : link
.
That RIGHT was to Greg.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:14 am : link
Who I don't believe for a second wouldn't love to have one of the greatest defensive players of all time on this team no matter what happened off the field.
It's only murder.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/13/2013 11:15 am : link
Not that big of a deal.
RE: Same thing happened to rivers yesterday Anish.  
AnishPatel : 12/13/2013 11:16 am : link
In comment 11392684 kmed said:
Quote:
Allen ran a post, Rivers threw a flag in the back corner of the endzone. Allen read the defense wrong and ran the wrong route. Mr. Rivers was not happy and didn't mind showing the world.


That's one thing I really admire about Rivers, brady and Peyton. If your guy fucks up, let them hear it. Not Eli's stupid ass staring and shaking his head. Be vocal about it. After all, they are throwing your ass under the bus, because our system has zero margin for error. A fuck up in our system, will result in an Int. Just look at RR and Murphy this season.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 11:16 am : link
I have no problem admitting that I would have made every excuse in the book for Ray Lewis if he were a Giant. He's not and never was, so.. murderer. But if he was I would 100% have a different opinion of him.
Exactly right Homer and Arc, it's funny how "perceptions" work.  
Geeman : 12/13/2013 11:16 am : link
Rivers doesn't take $hit on the field. It really hit me just how emotional the guy was when he got interviewed on the NFLN after the game. You can just feel his intensity even then and you can tell the entire panel was affected by it as well. I would also add that Rivers has been very good. You wanna speak on his last 2 years being bad well...
2011- 4624 yds 27 TDs 20 ints 62% comp, sacked 30X
2012- 3606 yds 26 TDs 15 ints 64% comp, sacked 49X
and those were his bad years behind a bad Oline and his PB WR in Vincent Jackson and sproles out of the back field.
The guy is a lot better then he gets credit for.
Filthy,  
kmed : 12/13/2013 11:17 am : link
you are 100% right on Greg. I'm not buying that at all.
Again, not my fav QB  
JOMO25 : 12/13/2013 11:17 am : link
but I love QBs with that demeanor (i.e. Phil Simms). Beats the "boy who just lost his puppy routine"
I'm sure you're right that some people would feel that way  
Greg from LI : 12/13/2013 11:18 am : link
I am not one of them. Fans are required to turn a blind eye to a lot of things. Murder is beyond where I draw the line, and no, I don't give a shit that he personally didn't stab those guys. He was in it up to his neck.
Hey, I'm a fan of the Giants...  
okiegiant : 12/13/2013 11:18 am : link
but this doesn't mean I like every Giant and don't think some of them are douchey or dicks.

I can hope a player helps the team and still not like him as an individual.

RE: RE: Same thing happened to rivers yesterday Anish.  
kmed : 12/13/2013 11:18 am : link
In comment 11392704 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
In comment 11392684 kmed said:


Quote:


Allen ran a post, Rivers threw a flag in the back corner of the endzone. Allen read the defense wrong and ran the wrong route. Mr. Rivers was not happy and didn't mind showing the world.



That's one thing I really admire about Rivers, brady and Peyton. If your guy fucks up, let them hear it. Not Eli's stupid ass staring and shaking his head. Be vocal about it. After all, they are throwing your ass under the bus, because our system has zero margin for error. A fuck up in our system, will result in an Int. Just look at RR and Murphy this season.


Whats the difference between what Rivers does or what Eli does? Rivers yells and screams at his guys when they mess up. Is it different if Eli pulls his guy aside after the play and they try to discuss what happened and fix it? As long as it gets discussed and figured out, why does it matter if they do it by screaming at the guy?
I have no problem  
pjcas18 : 12/13/2013 11:21 am : link
with Philip Rivers at all.

I think he's a good QB, when he played that game against the Pats (2007 AFC Championship game?) with a torn ACL and LdT bailed with a bruise he gained my respect.

I hate the Eli vs Rivers comparisons. But they're natural because of the draft.

Buy whatever you want  
Greg from LI : 12/13/2013 11:21 am : link
I am not, and would not be under any circumstances, a fan of Ray Lewis.
Douche  
Sec 103 : 12/13/2013 11:21 am : link
Pass...
Anish just remember one thing  
Larry in Pencilvania : 12/13/2013 11:22 am : link
Eli and that crappy system are on their second Super Bowl Rivers and Romo and their 3 or 4 systems have been nowhere but accumulating stats.

And yes I hate that system
who gives a fck  
hitdog42 : 12/13/2013 11:24 am : link
what a guy would do in "our system"- they arent in our system... they never will be in our system... so can we stop talking about it? i know it makes everyone feel better about eli, but good lord.
RE: RE: RE: Same thing happened to rivers yesterday Anish.  
AnishPatel : 12/13/2013 11:27 am : link
In comment 11392716 kmed said:
Quote:
In comment 11392704 AnishPatel said:


Quote:


In comment 11392684 kmed said:


Quote:


Allen ran a post, Rivers threw a flag in the back corner of the endzone. Allen read the defense wrong and ran the wrong route. Mr. Rivers was not happy and didn't mind showing the world.



That's one thing I really admire about Rivers, brady and Peyton. If your guy fucks up, let them hear it. Not Eli's stupid ass staring and shaking his head. Be vocal about it. After all, they are throwing your ass under the bus, because our system has zero margin for error. A fuck up in our system, will result in an Int. Just look at RR and Murphy this season.



Whats the difference between what Rivers does or what Eli does? Rivers yells and screams at his guys when they mess up. Is it different if Eli pulls his guy aside after the play and they try to discuss what happened and fix it? As long as it gets discussed and figured out, why does it matter if they do it by screaming at the guy?


Is it effective when Eli does it? Has this been a 1 time issue in which Eli discusses it and the problem is rectified? No, this stuff has been happening over and over and over again. Maybe his way of dealing with this issue isn't getting through. That's the issue, it's not being figured out because it's been happening for years now.

Throughout  
NJGiantFan84 : 12/13/2013 11:27 am : link
his career, he has been very inconsistant. he has also played some relatively poor games against bad teams. SD should not have lost to oakland and Washington, which would put them in the playoffs.

People don't like him because he is an asshole and hasn't won anything. Assholes who win are still respected, but assholes who lose are not. He has had some absolutely ridiculously fantastic games against good teams this year. But he didn't play the same way against teams they should have beaten. They may still not even make the playoffs.

Personally, I hate the guy. I thank God he isn't a Giant. I can't stand people who constantly yell at their team mates for making mistakes. Brady (and most QB's) lose it once in awhile but Rivers is always doing it. Against the Giants there were two times you could clearly see him yelling at somebody on TV. These guys are professionals, they don't need a player to yell at them like they are little boys. Nobody yells at him when he misses a throw.

He was terrible last year and below average the year before. I don't think he is under-rated because he has gotten tons of respect this year and will continue to do so if he continues to play this way.



Quick Rivers stat:  
Cam in MO : 12/13/2013 11:32 am : link
In the month of December in the past 8 seasons, Rivers record vs. above .500 teams is 10-3. Tops in the NFL over that timeframe.



Take that dep!


.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 11:33 am : link
If Rivers was terrible last year I don't even know if there's a word in the dictionary to adequately explain Eli's 2013.
I had this argument here last week.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:35 am : link
Don't feel like getting all stat crazy again. Lets just say Rivers' horrible years would be very good Eli years.
Arc,  
NJGiantFan84 : 12/13/2013 11:36 am : link
Horrendous??

Terrible may have been an over-statement, but he wasn't good. I watched them play a number of games last year and even in the beginning of the year I was shocked at how much better he was. He looks like a different player and the Rivers of old.

RE: I had this argument here last week.  
Cam in MO : 12/13/2013 11:37 am : link
In comment 11392762 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
Don't feel like getting all stat crazy again. Lets just say Rivers' horrible years would be very good Eli years.


That's because you're a bad Giants fan from the South that thinks all of the offense's problems are because of Eli and that the Giants should cut him and start Nassib.

Hater.


Come on guys  
Jerry in DC : 12/13/2013 11:37 am : link
You should know by now that QB stats became completely meaningless in 2004, then experienced a brief resurgence in 2011, and now have gone back to being 100% worthless.
Jerry-  
Cam in MO : 12/13/2013 11:38 am : link
Bahahaha!


So true.


statistically maybe Rivers has been better  
pjcas18 : 12/13/2013 11:38 am : link
on a per season basis, but Eli has more career yards and TD's and of course the all important two rings and two SB MVP's.

So, while I acknowledge Rivers has better year over year regular season stats, I won't acknowledge (or agree) that he's a better QB.
RE: RE: I had this argument here last week.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:39 am : link
In comment 11392767 Cam in MO said:
Quote:
In comment 11392762 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


Don't feel like getting all stat crazy again. Lets just say Rivers' horrible years would be very good Eli years.



That's because you're a bad Giants fan from the South that thinks all of the offense's problems are because of Eli and that the Giants should cut him and start Nassib.

Hater.



SO WHAT IF I DO?! I just wish Eli would get caught jerking it in front of a 16 year old girl ala LT, who Greg wouldn't want on this team, so we can move on.
RE: statistically maybe Rivers has been better  
Cam in MO : 12/13/2013 11:40 am : link
In comment 11392772 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
on a per season basis, but Eli has more career yards and TD's and of course the all important two rings and two SB MVP's.

So, while I acknowledge Rivers has better year over year regular season stats, I won't acknowledge (or agree) that he's a better QB.


Could be beacuase Rivers didn't start right away maybe?

But agree with the SB MVP's and rings. I wouldn't trade Eli for anyone.

Thinking that Rivers is better and wanting Eli as your starter aren't mutually exclusive, as some like the belive.


Boy, if anyone really thinks Rivers would be "douchy"  
barens : 12/13/2013 11:40 am : link
as a Giant, they must have felt the same about Phil Simms.

When we constantly harp on our system as being a big reason for Eli not having great numbers, why did Mark Brunell look so good in Jacksonville? This is not to say that he was a better QB than Manning, but I don't always understand why the blame always goes to the system, and not the QB.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 11:41 am : link
I'm not even necessarily arguing that Rivers is better than Eli. I just think he gets diminished to an unfair degree because of who he is.

I still maintain that Eli could enjoy the same type of resurgence in a different type of system. But Rivers is a really good QB and there's nothing wrong in admitting that.
*as some would like to believe.  
Cam in MO : 12/13/2013 11:41 am : link
gah!
What. The. Fuck. Ever.  
Cam in MO : 12/13/2013 11:43 am : link
Quote:
I just wish Eli would get caught jerking it in front of a 16 year old girl ala LT, who Greg wouldn't want on this team, so we can move on.



When is the last time you asked a hooker for ID? Jeez.



RE: statistically maybe Rivers has been better  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:43 am : link
In comment 11392772 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
on a per season basis, but Eli has more career yards and TD's and of course the all important two rings and two SB MVP's.

So, while I acknowledge Rivers has better year over year regular season stats, I won't acknowledge (or agree) that he's a better QB.


If Rivers doesn't change a thing from his career average, by the time he has played as many games as Eli has he will easily have more yards and TDs. Not as many rings though.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 11:43 am : link
And Eli has started 22 more games than Rivers so that's where your yardage disparity comes from. Rivers has a higher Y/G average than Eli.
Cam  
pjcas18 : 12/13/2013 11:43 am : link
absolutely the career numbers discrepancy are influenced by Rivers sitting behind Brees the first year+, but so what. Eli "displaced" Kurt Warner, not exactly like they had 40 year Matt Hasselbeck penciled in ahead of him..

I don't discount the fact Eli's career numbers are higher than Rivers, for any reason.

And when stats are evaluated for things like the HOF, etc I don't think it will be relevant to the voters.
Fairly or not, one thing separates Eli and Ben from Rivers, Romo, etc.  
Big Blue Blogger : 12/13/2013 11:46 am : link
Well, two things really, since they each have a pair of rings.

Until Rivers wins a championship - or at least sniffs one - he'll always be the other guy from that draft. He's a very good QB, and has been richly rewarded for his play. Same with Romo. Very successful guys. They just have a glaring hole in their resumes. Doesn't make them losers or douches.
Arc is right Rivers is underrated by Giants fans here  
Jay on the Island : 12/13/2013 11:46 am : link
Personally I am still thrilled we have Eli rather than him. Two things people never seem to mention when praising Rivers is that he plays in SD and prior to this year has enjoyed the luxury of playing in one of the easiest divisions in football.
Rivers "poor" 2012  
HomerJones45 : 12/13/2013 11:48 am : link
He completed 64.1% of his passes for 3600 yards, 26 td's v. 15 picks and a QBR of 88.6- all while being sacked 49 times- we would have gladly taken such a "poor" season this year.

In short, it's not the system, it's the personnel. Better receivers, better pass pro.

two of his starting receivers from 2012 were sent to the bench this season and they added Danny Woodhead with 400 yards rushing, 66 receptions and 8 td's. Rivers has also only been sacked 26 times this year.

You guys spend too much time listening to talking heads prattle on about systems.

Before this season, Eli had the better career. I also think more  
Ira : 12/13/2013 11:48 am : link
of him as an individual. But it was very clear on Sunday, that Rivers is throwing the ball much better than Eli this season.
You want to see Rivers and the Chargers win a ring?  
Sonic Youth : 12/13/2013 11:48 am : link
Are you even a Giants fan? Why any gmen fan would want this is beyond me.
Do his teammates think he's a douche I wonder?  
Geeman : 12/13/2013 11:48 am : link
I doubt that.
You guys need to learn some balance. Yeah he will definitely get at a teammate if they srew up, but that's how he leads, but he also encourages and I've seen him on many occassions congratulate his teammates when they make plays. He plays with his emotions on his sleeve, so what? There's more then one way to lead and that's his personality and it's genuine. His teammates seem to sespond well to him so I don't have an issue with him.
BBI mentions this every other week.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:48 am : link
Quote:
Two things people never seem to mention when praising Rivers is that he plays in SD and prior to this year has enjoyed the luxury of playing in one of the easiest divisions in football.


Usually around the same time they are trying to prove that Brees isn't all that good because of domes.
It's funny that some of the same people that give Eli a pass for  
gmen1234 : 12/13/2013 11:51 am : link
his bad seasons due to winning two championships are the same that say two championships don't forgive missing the playoffs four out of five years.
He would have self destructed  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/13/2013 11:53 am : link
in NY
I think that is a BBI myth, Paulie.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:54 am : link
It's been said ever since 2004.

Scratch that.

It's been said ever since BBI realized Rivers is a really good QB.
Some good ole  
kmed : 12/13/2013 11:55 am : link
Rivers bashing since 04?
My team is out of the running.  
Geeman : 12/13/2013 11:56 am : link
Now I'm a fan of the sport and of the teams left I will root for Seahawks and SD. I've never had an issue with either of those franchises so what's wrong with that?
I can see if I said the Boyz or Eagles or even SF...but SD???
Why???....becuase of a trade back in 04?...Grow up.
Giant,  
kmed : 12/13/2013 11:56 am : link
it's 2004, you have the first pick in the draft. Forget the fact Eli didn't want to play in SD.

Who are you taking?
I'd take Eli  
Sonic Youth : 12/13/2013 11:58 am : link
Without hesitation. Call me a homer, whatever, but Rivers does not have the arm to run this system in this weather against the NFC East, which has been way better over the last decade.

AFC West was trash for a long time.

And the "Rivers implosion in NY" thing.. I don't think that's a myth at all. People forget the beating Eli took in the media. He is so even keeled, that's why he can deal with the NYC Media. Rivers would get eaten alive.
kmed,  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 11:59 am : link
still Rivers, just like I said in 2004.

Love Eli and recognize him as the greatest QB we have ever had, but Rivers is still a better QB.
Who gives a shit?  
drkenneth : 12/13/2013 12:01 pm : link
?
Giant,  
kmed : 12/13/2013 12:02 pm : link
that surprises me. I think Rivers is a great QB, but I believe Eli is the better QB. Eli is a gunslinger and it's gotten him into trouble. He's not mobile, so with a bad oline he's going to get exposed, but he's got ice water in his veins which is what you need when things get tough. It's not that Eli steps up in big moments, it's that the big moments never get the best of him(possibly because he doesn't know that it's a big moment). I cannot say the same for Rivers.
Not sure how you can say Rivers  
pjcas18 : 12/13/2013 12:02 pm : link
is a better QB, unless your determining factors for being a better QB are regular season stats.

When debating Rivers, Eli and Ben recently with a pats fan it was pretty clear Eli is the only one of the three to actually play better in the playoffs versus the regular season. He didn't do it in every playoff game, but his overall playoff numbers are better than both of the others and better than his regular season numbers.



I will also add  
kmed : 12/13/2013 12:03 pm : link
that better regular season stats does not make a better QB.

I love this time limit.
Eli's  
pjcas18 : 12/13/2013 12:04 pm : link
2011 playoff numbers are historic (I believe). Rivers has never elevated his game this way.
RE: kmed,  
AnishPatel : 12/13/2013 12:04 pm : link
In comment 11392843 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
still Rivers, just like I said in 2004.

Love Eli and recognize him as the greatest QB we have ever had, but Rivers is still a better QB.


Filthy for me that's hard to say because they play in Would different systems. Would Eli have been better in their system and Rivers in ours? Who knows? Overall, I think Eli has done as good as he could in our respective system. I sure would have loved to see how Rivers, or even Ben would do in our system.
I don't think Rivers  
kmed : 12/13/2013 12:05 pm : link
is fit for this system which is built for big plays and throwing the ball down the field. Rivers excels in throwing short passes and underneath passes.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 12:06 pm : link
I would still take Eli if I got a do-over.

I'd have a much harder time deciding between Eli and Ben than I would Eli/Rivers.
And I hate the argument  
pjcas18 : 12/13/2013 12:08 pm : link
about weapons - who has been surrounded by the most talented skill players.

Rivers from the beginning had Tomlinson, Gates, Sproles, VJ, Turner, etc. Additionally the Chargers defenses were ranked either similarly or better than the Giants in terms of yards, scoring, etc.

I hate arguments like this. Rivers is a great QB, Eli is a great QB. there is no statement that isn't an opinion when comparing them in terms of who is better.

I really want a new offense  
mrvax : 12/13/2013 12:10 pm : link
Not just how it revived Rivers career but look no further than when the Eagles went with Foles. The guy looks like a world beater statistically.

I'd like Eli to get a chance in a QB/WR friendly system.
Hard to say really.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 12:10 pm : link
I think Eli would be worlds better in a system like San Diego's but still turn the ball over more due to what seems like poor field vision (having a defender cut off your ball even when on the same page as the receiver).

To be fair, I also wanted Eli in 2004. And Rapelessburger. And keep Kerry and draft Gallery. Also Sean Taylor. I'm usually not very sure of myself come draft time.

Mainly Sean Taylor.
RE: .  
AnishPatel : 12/13/2013 12:11 pm : link
In comment 11392859 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I would still take Eli if I got a do-over.

I'd have a much harder time deciding between Eli and Ben than I would Eli/Rivers.


I agree Arc. However, within our specific system, I'd easily go Eli. Ben would be broken long ago. No dink and dunking here for Big Ben. Drop back with 5 and 7 step concepts and make plays. If he holds the ball to long he would probably lead the league in QB sacks. Eli gets beat and still gets up. I shutter to think how Ben would do in this system. If I were to guess I'd say it would be similar to Kurt Warner. We'd be screaming, throw the fucking ball! Stop holding it for 283918239 hours.
RE: I really want a new offense  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 12:11 pm : link
In comment 11392866 mrvax said:
Quote:
Not just how it revived Rivers career but look no further than when the Eagles went with Foles. The guy looks like a world beater statistically.

I'd like Eli to get a chance in a QB/WR friendly system.


You talkin' one of them crazy systems where the QB knows where the receiver will run before he runs there? They still make those?
I wanted Roethlisberger to be drafted  
pjcas18 : 12/13/2013 12:12 pm : link
and from everything I and probably most of us have read, Big Ben was very close to becoming a NY Giant.
I do not think Eli would do well  
kmed : 12/13/2013 12:12 pm : link
in a system that throws a lot of short passes. I am usually amazed at how bad Eli is at throwing short passes. He's got no touch whatsoever.
RE: RE: I really want a new offense  
mrvax : 12/13/2013 12:13 pm : link
In comment 11392871 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:

You talkin' one of them crazy systems where the QB knows where the receiver will run before he runs there? They still make those?


Well, something like that. It would be fun again to see the offense going up & down the field and actually scoring a TD. How much long is our field goal kicker's toes going to hold up?
Maybe, just maybe  
Mike L. : 12/13/2013 12:15 pm : link
his completion percentage is higher because he takes more sacks??? Eli's usually trying to unload it to avoid taking a sack, which has led to some turnovers in addition to lower completion percentages. Has this been drilled into his head by coaching? The Giants also like the vertical passing game, and play in northern NJ, not southern Cal. If we had kept Rivers, who is a talented QB, I really don't think the Giants win any Super Bowls and TC probably would have been canned back in '07.
Rivers is a good guy off the field  
giant24 : 12/13/2013 12:17 pm : link
Runner up for NFL Man of the Year a couple of years ago. A lot of charity work.

San Diego Chargers Quarterback Philip Rivers is recognized for his contributions and commitment to San Diego's abused, neglected and abandoned children. Through his foundation, Rivers of Hope, and his partnerships with San Diego County Adoptions and the Heart Gallery, Rivers has helped our county's youth find loving homes, hope and their own sense of self-worth.
RE: Hard to say really.  
AnishPatel : 12/13/2013 12:17 pm : link
In comment 11392867 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
I think Eli would be worlds better in a system like San Diego's but still turn the ball over more due to what seems like poor field vision (having a defender cut off your ball even when on the same page as the receiver).

To be fair, I also wanted Eli in 2004. And Rapelessburger. And keep Kerry and draft Gallery. Also Sean Taylor. I'm usually not very sure of myself come draft time.




Mainly Sean Taylor.



See I am sure Eli would be different in another system if we never drafted him. Our system is a BOOM or Bust system with ZERO margin for error. You fuck up it results in an INT, if someone else fucks up, YOU end up with in Int. Factor in missed passes and poor decisions, you guessed it.. More ints. Factor in odd shit like deflections off feet, hands, head and what not, and you get.. INTs.

I think Eli in another system would have been better. People wouldn't say he would be inconsistent. He was a vocal leader going back to Ole Miss from what I remember with video of him talking about players on the sideline. I remember I liked that about him. I still wanted Taylor, but I admired that about Eli. I think he would have been better stat wise in another system. Does that translate to 2 Sbs? Obviously, not sure, but I think he would have been much better stat wise.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 12:17 pm : link
Ben is a tough dude. And he can move better than Eli can. Like I said, it's a toss up for me.. I think both are really good in their own ways.

To me, Ben can probably survive a bad OL better than Eli though. If Eli can't get adequate protection, we're going to have problems.. as we've seen this year.

RE: Rivers  
NJGiantFan84 : 12/13/2013 12:21 pm : link
In comment 11392803 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
He completed 64.1% of his passes for 3600 yards, 26 td's v. 15 picks and a QBR of 88.6- all while being sacked 49 times- we would have gladly taken such a "poor" season this year.

In short, it's not the system, it's the personnel. Better receivers, better pass pro.

two of his starting receivers from 2012 were sent to the bench this season and they added Danny Woodhead with 400 yards rushing, 66 receptions and 8 td's. Rivers has also only been sacked 26 times this year.

You guys spend too much time listening to talking heads prattle on about systems.


Stats don't tell the whole story, especially if you're not comparing those stats to previous seasons. I watched him last year, numerous times and he was not impressive at all. He looked way off. The eye-test is the most important to me and he did not pass it, not from my viewing. Even moreso, if you compare those stats to other years, he was clearly off. I'm not saying he isn't a good QB and not saying he was the worst QB ever last year, but he was not playing well. I was shocked at how much he improved from last year to this year.



All 3 have had great careers.  
Geeman : 12/13/2013 12:27 pm : link
Personally I would've taken Ben, but he had a slight edge to the other 2 based on his mobility to me.
All 3 can make all the throws.

Giant...great post...so much for Rivers being a douche.
Perceptions are amazing aren't they?
I can only speak for myself, but when I  
kmed : 12/13/2013 12:30 pm : link
call him a douche, I'm referring to the football player, not the man.
RE: I do not think Eli would do well  
AnishPatel : 12/13/2013 12:31 pm : link
In comment 11392873 kmed said:
Quote:
in a system that throws a lot of short passes. I am usually amazed at how bad Eli is at throwing short passes. He's got no touch whatsoever.


Kmed, you'd be repping the shit out of that at every possible chance. We used to do that when Hufangel was here with short passes and screens. We actually knew how to ran screens. We had variety of TE, WR and RB screens. That's one element of Hufangel's play calling I liked.

I think with short passes comes quick decision making. Getting the ball very quick out of your hands. That's what Rivers is doing to the league leading 70% completion percentage. If we installed that and practiced it at every turn, I would like that.

Quick dink and dunk system. Decision making is very quick. If a guy is thrown a 5 yard hitch he actually would be in the right spot for it. It would be nice to see that and when we are in the red zone, give Eli a chance to pile up TDs. High completion %, and Td count would yield a high QB rating.
The one thing Ive noticed about Rivers  
Giantcol22 : 12/13/2013 12:53 pm : link
Is that every time their is a negative play he's looking around as someone else didn't do their job. I have to admit he's a great player their something about his body language on the field that bothers me.


I love....  
BillKo : 12/13/2013 1:08 pm : link
how Rivers plays with emotion and fire....and it's quite entertaining to watch on TV.

What I don't like....how he short arms the ball on his a ton of his throws.

If you watch the game last night, defense, and their ball control run game, won that game for the Chargers. Rivers played decently, but let's not make it out to be he dominated last night.

Perception versus reality.

Rivers is a good Qb  
Bradshaw #44 : 12/13/2013 1:14 pm : link
He isn't a Super Bowl QB.
Like Trent Dilfer.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 1:15 pm : link
.
I watched the game and thought he played  
kmed : 12/13/2013 1:16 pm : link
excellent. He was in complete control and made the throws he had to make, specifically on third down.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 1:16 pm : link
Yeah, Marino wasn't a Super Bowl QB either.
this guy has lived off an easy offensive scheme  
SHO'NUFF : 12/13/2013 1:18 pm : link
he must lead the league in dump-offs to running backs. him or drew brees. he makes his money off little crossing routes 5 yards in front of him. Gilbride has never heard of a crossing route.
12-20 for 166....  
BillKo : 12/13/2013 1:21 pm : link
isn't great, but then again he didn't have to be last night because of the run game and defense.

The one TD throw in the corner was nice, and he also made a nice pass down the sideline to WR who was well covered. Other than that, I was impressed with the SD defense and how they controlled the LOS on both sides of the ball - and ran the ball effectively.

I'm assuming this thread started because the Chargers won, and someone wants to compare Eli and PR.
RE: this guy has lived off an easy offensive scheme  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 1:24 pm : link
In comment 11393007 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
he must lead the league in dump-offs to running backs. him or drew brees. he makes his money off little crossing routes 5 yards in front of him. Gilbride has never heard of a crossing route.


Peyton throws a shit ton of passes to RB's or passes to WR's running quick underneath routes, too. They were averaging close to 40 points per game going into last night and are on pace to break the scoring record. Who cares how you do it? You don't have to only throw deep to be productive or good or even do it most of the time.
my point exactly  
SHO'NUFF : 12/13/2013 1:26 pm : link
why can't we do that here? Peyton's offense is not overly complicated. KG would make Peyton look like shit.
...  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 1:26 pm : link
Quote:
BBI mentions this every other week.
GiantFilthy : 11:48 am : link : reply
Usually around the same time they are trying to prove that Brees isn't all that good


Quote:
this guy has lived off an easy offensive scheme
SHO'NUFF : 1:18 pm : link : reply
he must lead the league in dump-offs to running backs. him or drew brees.


Close. Real close.
I'm a big fan of Brees and his/Payton's offense  
SHO'NUFF : 12/13/2013 1:30 pm : link
if you need clarification. I didn't say anything about a dome, although there seems to be some validity to it.
Rivers is very good  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 12/13/2013 1:31 pm : link
but his lack of arm strength has bit him in the ass many times, especially in situations where his team needs him to come back.

One of Eli's biggest strengths when he's playing well is that he is excellent at making passes outside the hashes and near the sideline. Back in 2011, both Cossell and Michael Irvin mentioned how Eli was arguably the best QB in the league at throwing outside the hashes. That has a lot to do with Eli being a great player in comeback situations, defenses willingly give you the middle during that time to protect the sidelines so you eat clock.

Over the years Rivers has been absolutely awful in comeback situations because he isn't good at throwing the ball outside the hashes down the field. He doesn't get enough MPH to make those tough throws. It's a huge negative for him. Rivers has more touch than Eli and is more consistently accurate, so he definitely has some plusses over Eli. But overall I'm glad we have Eli and I expect him to bounce back much like Rivers did this year.
Heh, I'm just messin' with you, boss.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 1:32 pm : link
You sho nuff decent judgement for me.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2013 1:33 pm : link
Speaking of throws outside the hashes in comeback situations...

Stafford made not one but two of the best throws of that variety I've seen in a long time in the same game during that comeback against Dallas.
Osi...  
BillKo : 12/13/2013 1:34 pm : link
very nice post. I found that to be very informative.
at this point, the only thing I care about is  
SHO'NUFF : 12/13/2013 1:36 pm : link
Eli ending up with more TDs than INTs by season's end.
Rivers doesn't come close to Simms fiery field presence  
Canton : 12/13/2013 1:41 pm : link
or sideline antics with the coach yet we still love him.

If Phillips was on our team their wouldn't even be a discussion. We'd actually be defending him from media and fan hate. Book it.
I don't know how much  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 12/13/2013 1:42 pm : link
Rivers' poor "comeback situation" performance has to do with him or Norv. Norv's offense doesn't seem to be an ideal style of offense in comeback situations. He uses the run and short passes to set up the big pass down the field, but in those situations the defense doesn't let you get behind them under any circumstances so they'll give you the short stuff.

So while Rivers' poor performance in late and close situations is a fact, I don't know how much of that has to do with Norv and how much of it has to do with Rivers. I do think some of it was Norv's style, but based on the eye test it does seem like a lot of it had to do with Rivers being a much better passer between the hashes than outside them.
RE: Rivers is very good  
kmed : 12/13/2013 1:42 pm : link
In comment 11393033 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
but his lack of arm strength has bit him in the ass many times, especially in situations where his team needs him to come back.

One of Eli's biggest strengths when he's playing well is that he is excellent at making passes outside the hashes and near the sideline. Back in 2011, both Cossell and Michael Irvin mentioned how Eli was arguably the best QB in the league at throwing outside the hashes. That has a lot to do with Eli being a great player in comeback situations, defenses willingly give you the middle during that time to protect the sidelines so you eat clock.

Over the years Rivers has been absolutely awful in comeback situations because he isn't good at throwing the ball outside the hashes down the field. He doesn't get enough MPH to make those tough throws. It's a huge negative for him. Rivers has more touch than Eli and is more consistently accurate, so he definitely has some plusses over Eli. But overall I'm glad we have Eli and I expect him to bounce back much like Rivers did this year.

Once again, great post.
Guys, Greg actively rooted against our (then) starting running back...  
Mike in Long Beach : 12/13/2013 1:49 pm : link
because he went to a college he hates.

You really don't believe he'd root against Ray Lewis if he says so?
I don't think he rooted against him.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2013 1:52 pm : link
Just wanted him to die.

I think.
How do those who believe  
santacruzom : 12/13/2013 2:21 pm : link
Rivers would be unable to handle the NY media think this would have been manifested? Would we have seen Rivers cry on the podium, unable to handle the sheer harshness of questions asked by meanie reporters who look like they work for a Wall Street firm? Like, suddenly he'd throw up his hands and wail, "Calgon, take me away!" followed two hours later by his retirement announcement?

Maybe we overstate the power of the NY media just a tad? Personally, I think his F-you demeanor could very well translate into big games following any kind of demolition by the press.
Super Bowls are the pinnacle of the sport  
BrettNYG10 : 12/13/2013 2:24 pm : link
And nothing means more for us as fans, but they ruin otherwise good conversations and are an analytical crutch when comparing players.
Sure, in a  
kmed : 12/13/2013 2:29 pm : link
vacuum SB's shouldn't be discussed like the end all of every conversation, but how about the SB runs? The 3 games leading up to it? Getting to a SB is really tough and Eli was vital to that. Forget the super plays that he made to win it.
Absolutely, kmed.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/13/2013 2:33 pm : link
Playoff performance over a large enough sample size is obviously crucial. Osi did a good job of talking about Eli's ability to be 'clutch', etc. I was pointing more towards the myriad of responses that populate Eli threads that merely say something to the effect of, "Well, I'll take the guy with two rings...". It's lazy.
It certainly can be lazy,  
kmed : 12/13/2013 2:40 pm : link
but it's not always lazy. Just like how trent dilfer is everyone's answer to anyone can win a SB, doesn't mean he did anythign special.
San Diego is a team that overhauled it's coaches  
PSIMMS 22-25-268 : 12/13/2013 3:12 pm : link
New Head Coach, OC and offensive line coach. Much different offensive philosophy. Would love to see the Giants do the same.
Boxscores  
Geeman : 12/13/2013 4:21 pm : link
Eli WC playoff round vs Bucs
20-27 185 yds 2 TDs
12-18 163 yds 2TDs vs the Boys
so were these great performances?
Like I said before, a lot of you guys aren't balanced at all.
So if Rivers wasn't great last night neither was Eli's pervormances that were like these. It goes both ways.
Rivers  
stretch234 : 12/13/2013 4:33 pm : link
I think he is a very good QB. He does however play in a location that has zero bad weather and where no one cares about football. That is a huge advantage

There is a big difference playing in a place where nothing is scrutinized to a location where everything is scrutinized.

His playoff numbers are not great. He has thrown an int in every playoff game he has been in
Little late to the party  
dep026 : 12/13/2013 10:38 pm : link
So no reason to be confrontational about a subject that has been beaten to death enough. Onyl thing I say, is those who prefer Rivers probably would be enjoying two less SBs. I just dont think Rivers has the arm strength to succeed in the bad weather we continued to play late in seasons. Plus, Eli never had the talent that Rivers had either ;)

Anyways, Rivers is having a fine mighty year. But unless a few chips fall their way, they will miss the playoffs.... again. So the 3 studs from the 2004 class all might be sitting home, again. And its being more of a theme than a rare occurrence.
nice...Geeman cherry picks 2 games where Eli didn't have to do as much  
SHO'NUFF : 12/13/2013 11:50 pm : link
but doesn't mention Green Bay x 2, Atlanta, SF and 2 SBs...plus the stats mentioned don't show what he did in the final drive of the first half of that Cowboys game.
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