Caller asked him if option routes were heart of what's killing the passing game.
PK responded with the comment that Nicks and Cruz, and to an extent Randle, have operated successfully in this scheme. 2 things to investigate with regard to so many sacks and INTs.
First, study the protections and clear or condemn the O-Line. He suspects that this is the heart of the problem, but also said he was speaking to somebody inside recently and that person wasn't ready to put it all on the O-Line.
Second, scout the offensive formations. Maybe defenses are wired-in and not being challenged by the offense any longer, allowing them to jump these routes. "It's just become old."
We all know the O-Line has had issues from the beginning, but when guys with Kirwan's background and documented respect for TC and his staff start knocking an offense that won two superbowls, I'm inclined to give it a lot of weight.
Sorry - didn't mean to such a prick but why hasn't anyone posed this question to Giants? Coaches, management or ownership? Are they too caught up in JPP's back?
I know some people around here hold PK in pretty high regard, and I'm probably one of the few Giant fans that can still stand to listen to Sirius, so I thought I'd pass it on.
Replace Nicks with someone who has his old explosiveness get a top Center to anchor the interior of the OL and let's see what happens.
I hope we have a chance at Alex Mack.
"What have you done for me lately." is a tired old phrase, but I think it applies to the Giants. If many of us, who don't get paid to analyze tendencies of other teams, can frequently guess the Giants' play calls, how easy must it be for someone who's job it is to report on a team's tendencies?
Regardless of whether the Giants' offense was "a two time Super Bowl winner", defensive coordinators and defensive players adapt.
I think this is major reason (not the only one or maybe not even the most important one) why the Giants are 5-8 versus 8-5.
Many posters have eluded to the fact that we've been running the same O for the last 9 years with very few wrinkles thrown in there too mix things up.
I would love to see Eli in a new offense and see what he can do, especially when he knows EXACTLY what routes the wrs are going to run.
"We need a bigger tree!!!!!"
add Pat Kirwan to the list of idiots, I guess.
That said, we've got no clue how Mara will react at the end of the season.
Remember when Sinorice Moss came to the Giants? In his first year, if he came in the game it was a WR screen to him ON THAT PLAY. Then he would run off the field. So, the defense knew the play. They would jump his route consistently. Looked like it was his fault but shit the defense knew the play!
This year, you see Andre Brown lining up in different places in the backfield. Just watch his location before the snap and see whether we run or pass. You will see that he is also tipping our hand especially on 3rd down.
This next comment is just about scheme and not predictability. 3rd or 4th and short. Why on earth would we lineup with the heavy package adding more bodies to the line of scrimmage? our offensive line cannot push a pile when the LBs and safeties are playing off of the line. We do not have an O line that will push the pile back even when the defense knows we are running. So, why are we not spreading the field every time we are in that short yardage situation? At least it gives the defense something to think about....having our WRs still on the field. Do you think the defense will respect the pass having 3 of our shitty TEs on the field? Hell no... they are just keying on the run.
Finally... maybe our O Line would have a little bit more of a chance if Eli was not waiting until the clock was about to hit zero before the ball is snapped. The defense is actually watching the play clock and using that to jump the play. Plus, it also gives the defenses time to survey our offense and have them adjust to what they are seeing from us. Why the fuck our coaches have not fixed this over the years is the worlds biggest mystery.
And on passing downs, we should have a full house backfield and two tight ends and throw deep to Connor. The defense will never guess that.
or put Cruz at halfback and have him run the dive.
Congrats, you guys are really bringing the high heat of stupid.
You guys have seen this yourselves. Remember the wildcat? How often do you see the wildcat now?
Professional coaches know that they aren't going to fool each other, at least not more than a few games, and that every system is "stale" after a few games. They know that the game comes down to execution and personnel. Desperate fans ignore these aspects and think some magic plan will make everything better.
You want to know what happened to the passing game? The qb stunk, the receivers other than Cruz are either slow on the uptake, not putting out much effort or not very good, the o-line has gone through 3 centers and is playing a rookie and one guy who was supposed to be on the bench.
You want to improve the passing game? The qb needs to put his big boy pants on, realize he's going to get hit and stand in and consistently make good decisions and accurate throws, the o-line needs a steady center and another player so their isn't pressure up the middle and the qb has a pocket to step up in, and the receiving corp needs an overhaul.
There's no magic plan for that. It's a lot of hard work which is not as exciting to fans as coming up with some magic plan that will instantly cure all ills.
we can pay extra to be pepared, lil bill is known to be a XOS system power user, setting the tone.
lets leverage our advanage.
me, i thknki'llbe atkmart shoppingthadmamlevinecollectionsunday.
#IT'SNOTOVERYET
#ANDIFITISWEAREJUST A FEWPIECESAWAY
News-flash. Listen to Sirius for a week and you'll hear the fans of every team other than the Seahawks and Saints complain about playcalling and predictability. There's no distinction in fan-dom, Nomad.
A couple of times a year I respond to one of Eric's posts, telling him not to be put off by the fact that there are people who aren't stupid, people who aren't fucking pricks, and people who know exactly what they don't know about football, and the intersection of those groups isn't what BBI is built on, so don't give me the "you people amaze me" shit.
The revelation would be posts like yours and the game threads going away.
I'm not even advocating a change, but I find it hilarious that some people think Gilbride is the only coach who could've succeeded with the personnel he's had to work with here.
And another question: Why do our rookie receivers (with the exception of Steve Smith) have to redshirt a year here, when guys like Stills in New Orleans and Allen in San Diego can hit the ground running?
I'm not even advocating a change, but I find it hilarious that some people think Gilbride is the only coach who could've succeeded with the personnel he's had to work with here.
And another question: Why do our rookie receivers (with the exception of Steve Smith) have to redshirt a year here, when guys like Stills in New Orleans and Allen in San Diego can hit the ground running?
Agree 100% and this seems to be a wasteland for TEs as well. I have no clue how they let Bennett leave.
Agree 100% and this seems to be a wasteland for TEs as well. I have no clue how they let Bennett leave.
Because we paid Snee and Baas $13M to do nothing.
Well thank God you are here to invalidate Kirwan. Seriously its not like he has all your experience and knowledge to back up his points.
Which team were you a personal guy for? And its not like he has your extensive connections within the NFL You should call Pat and offer your analysis and info as I'm sure a guy with your vast credentials would be invaluable for a guy like him who really hasn't put the time in to put our thoughts on football.
I respect Kirwan and maybe there is an argument to be made here, but the two biggest criticisms of the Giants O seem to contradict one another.
Your exactly right. The coaches dont want any mistakes, so they bench the rookies. They s/b more concerned about making plays. They benched Wilson at beginning of season for his 2 fumbles in one game. The Giants need a new coaching staff
I have told my group that sees the games together about how defenses know our offense better than our receivers, witnessing our receivers almost colliding together and a DB in perfect position to intercept or break up the play. Gilbride takes too much time getting the call into Eli and Eli often exhausts the play clock to where the DL can tee off at him without worrying about being offsides. Our OL is terrible, we may as well call Nicks as Hicks, because he is not himself. Playing JPP too early was also a disaster. I would continue to go on but I feel a sob is about to come on and real men don't cry.
Really?
How do you suggest they fix that?