How much did Nicks' contract situation effect the Giants?

Nicks was obviously a big factor this season to how bad we've been but we have possibly the worst offensive line I've ever seen as a Giant fan. That's not hyperbole either. I've never seen anything like it.

I don't see a reason to believe that he tanked this year. This year is costing him a lot of money.

and it hurt the Giants all year long.

His play is so lackluster- he just doesn't fight for balls like he used to. The Giants are in a tough situation. Obviously, he has talent, we have all seen it, but do you committ to a guy who will allow his emotions to dictate his effort? Probably not.

You can't really state it as opinion because without being close to the situation, there is little to base it on. That written, it looks to me like Nicks is playing to his current contract and knowing a bit about human nature, it's not out of the question that his poor play is a passive aggressive stance against the Giants. Pure conjecture but it's possibly correct.

because I cannot blame the entire season on Nicks not playing well when Cruz hasnt done jack either.. or Randle.. and Eli has been brutal.. and there is no running game.. and the OC calls a terrible game and we have no OL...

Nicks is a part of.. not THE problem..

but I've learned that Cruz was always more valuable when Nicks was on his game. I just don't see Nicks demanding the attention this year that he has in the past and it effected Cruz too.

he's not a #1. He's a #1 when hes not getting #1 attention... sill a good value signing as hes very productive. But we need a Stud TE or a "Nicks like" #1 to make Cruz have his full value. An Oline would help.
That being said People clamoring about nicks yesterday are just in denial about how bad the throws to him were. they were horrific.

no doubt...which makes for an interesting follow-up question...how much of the problem is he? and more importantly, can he part of the solution?
Is he simply pouting and not preparing/playing like he has in the past because of it?
OR
Is he 25 soon to be 26 year old receiver with a chronic leg problem that will never regain his speed/explosiveness?
Do you think the Giants organization is going to be willing to pay to find out?

Upside down logic.

nicks comes back. I think that bridge is completely burned.

effort was horrible. A constant them throughout the year. See all the separation Nicks got yesterday? Yeah, neither did anyone else.

Not every pass is going to hit the WR in the numbers. But the problem is unless the ball hits them in the numbers, Giants WRs cant make plays.

Of course it's the contract and the same reason Clowney isn't playing hard in college this year. They want their money and the only thing in their way is an injury.

They try to produce big numbers to impress teams with what they can do. His numbers this season and last hurt his case to get a big contract.

2 things:

1. He's been so banged up in the past, he doesn't want to risk getting hurt which would effect his next paycheck.

2. He's pissed. He's pissed we gave cruz all that money and wouldn't even talk to him about his contract. He wanted security and we weren't willing to give that to him.

Agreed. Cruz and Nicks compliment eachother and both are at their best when they have eachother.

That being said, I strongly disagree with the above post that Cruz has done "jack shit". He has close to 1,000 receiving yards, and, more importantly, plays at 100% ALL THE TIME, which is more than I can say for Nicks. Nicks has played with his emotions on his sleave. Last time I checked, he was getting paid to play, not to pout. Let Nicks be someone else's problem and take the money you had set for Nicks and spend it on someone whon actually cares.

to get the money.

He's not going to get anywhere near the contract Mike Wallace got.

wonder how much of it was Eli not wanting to go to nicks. First off, because he didn't trust him to fight for him and secondly because there was some sort of divide between them.

some players packed it in and looked out for themselves (can't really blame them given how brutal the league is).

If Nicks were playing through an injury he'd either shut himself down, or the team would, so I don't see that as being the reason.

Sometimes players have to do what's best for them even if the fans don't want to hear it. I don't like it, but I understand it.

Players get paid to play, not to pout. Shame on Nicks for depriving his teammates a 100% effort. There are actually some players who have given it their all, and there are others that have not (Nicks being the most obvious).

was he legitimately supposed to prevent?
and Dep separation only counts when you want it to? like the last pick when he beat sherman and eli threw late and short... the separation was there... u just dont want to see it.
Nicks did nothing yesterday, has been not a value add guy all year... but people just make sh$t up. the throws yesterday were ALL awful and deserve to be picked and VERY unlikely to prevent them.

early in the season where Nicks didn't help Eli. Seemed to me like Eli stopped trusting Nicks at one point. I'm not making anything up, it's just my opinion.

Watching Nicks and his lack of effort this year was frustrating. I am not making this shit up. He played without effort, it showed, and he did not make his team better. He will be better off being another team's problem.

Eli flat out stunk yesterday and made some brutally stupid/awful throws, he deserves no pass, but Nicks looked like a feeble moron out there in his own right. Maybe he's got something physically wrong with him that is preventing him from doing it, but he didn't fight for shit and he certainly had opportunity to on each INT on balls intended for him.

It's entirely possible for both of them to suck, because, both of them very much do right now.

In comment 11398293 hitdog42 said:

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was he legitimately supposed to prevent? and Dep separation only counts when you want it to? like the last pick when he beat sherman and eli threw late and short... the separation was there... u just dont want to see it. Nicks did nothing yesterday, has been not a value add guy all year... but people just make sh$t up. the throws yesterday were ALL awful and deserve to be picked and VERY unlikely to prevent them.

He had separation on both fade passes.... you msut be drunk or high. Because Sherman was in perfect position on both passes. The crossing route was a pass where he actually got both hands on it, yet the defender wrestled it away from him.

Time and time again, I see WRs in the NFL make diving catches, one handed catches, outjump people, go over DBs, and make hard catches look routine.

Hakeem Nicks has not done any of these things. So since he cant get separation, cant out run people, and doesnt win 1-1 matchups - he is literally useless. Again, if a WR can only catch a ball where he is open by 5 yards and hits him in the chest.... well he isnt much of a WR. At this point, he isnt even a number 3 WR on most teams.

and we probably won't have facts until about a year from now. There is no question that his performance has gone from very good to very bad in a short time.

No one actually knows the reason yet. In any case, he's made a good case for not being back here.

Losing your #1 receiver is going to certainly affect your offense's performance. Couple that with all the other offensive problems and you have a little NFL disaster.

that if he goes to the right team, Nicks will have a very good season next year. Some will claim it's because he's healthy, I will claim it's because he's motivated.

The inuries have taken a toll on his body and he doesn't have the same explosion he's had in the past.
On all 3 interceptions thrown his way. Nicks didn't have any seperation.
I know Sherman is the best corner in the league. But he ran the route better than Nicks.
Nicks is moving around like he's a 33 year old wr. Some players just lose it early.

In comment 11398318 kmed said:

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that if he goes to the right team, Nicks will have a very good season next year. Some will claim it's because he's healthy, I will claim it's because he's motivated.

I believe this as well. And when he does it, you will hear the experts here say because he finally had a good QB to throw him the ball and that he was open all year this year.

Its pretty pathetic that one of your top 5 players coming into the year is an absolute dog.

This is a business and it's a job to Nicks. He's gotta look out for #1.

But something clearly wasn't right with Nicks this year besides his injuries. Whether it was the contract or something else, there was much more degrading his play that physical ailments.

healthy players get paid. That's what I am referring to. Nicks has a long injury history. Him having a crappy season on a team that was poor will have less of an impact on his upcoming contract that a great season with yet another injury.

I really think its as simple as that. If he were injured, he wouldn't be playing right now.

.

the 2nd one he beat sherman off the line.
i cant even discuss things with you if you arent watching the game. Eli hesistated throwing and then undershot him. He did not have separation on the first deep one... hence you SHOULD NOT throw it and force it against the #1 corner in the league.. and if you do go outside. good lord.
2 hands on the ball while running full speed and the ball being behind you... and the guy with momentum gets it... shocker... and the "2 hands"... i mean come on dude. give me a break.

ever gone on to have any sort of career after leaving?

How could he not be motivated in his contract year?

..

Joke of an effort yesterday. There were plenty of fans in the stadium that were not happy with Nicks, in my section alone. Terrible.

I respectfully disagree. I think Nicks and his lack of effort, injury or otherwise, will have a negative effect on his next contract. In the age of a salry cap, how can you justify paying someone top dollar with an "I don't care" attitude. I do not see a team paying top dollar for talent that has not been seen since 2011. Injuries? Yes. Poor attitude? Absolutely. That is a bad combination.

because he's had so many injuries. Like Uconn stated, nobody is paying Nicks if he's coming off ANOTHER injury. He's much better off going into the offseason healthy and having a bad year(as a WR, he can easily blame the bad year on circumstances out of his control) rather than going into the offseason hurt again.

I believe that because of that fact, Nicks was not the threat he once was for this offense and it had a ripple effect on the whole offense/team.

Nicks played himself out of a lot of $ this year. Something is up with him & I don't think it was injury related.

ira beat me to it, i've said this many times, this isnt all simply a $ strategy by nicks. things got bad w/him and the team last march when they tried to extend him after his down season.

his teammates know he is bitching out as does the NFL exec boys club. the time tested way to get paid if u are an elite player like nicks is all in, work hard, block out everything else and focus on football. biggest year of your life.

he's butchered it and when he clears head he will never forgive himself! u have to wonder how much blame JR Rickert deserves too. is it quality advice??

In comment 11398333 hitdog42 said:

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the 2nd one he beat sherman off the line. i cant even discuss things with you if you arent watching the game. Eli hesistated throwing and then undershot him. He did not have separation on the first deep one... hence you SHOULD NOT throw it and force it against the #1 corner in the league.. and if you do go outside. good lord. 2 hands on the ball while running full speed and the ball being behind you... and the guy with momentum gets it... shocker... and the "2 hands"... i mean come on dude. give me a break.

I know Nicks does no wrong to you. But if you get 1 on 1 matchups, you have to win them. Nicks made 0 play on both deep balls, he kept running straight, and never adjusted. Again, if the ball doesnt fall right into his lap, he aint catching it.

Amd just because he beat Sherman off the line, doesnt mean he created separation. This just in, Hakeem Nicks is very slow for a WR. Sherman made up the ground within a few steps. Nicks was not open by the time the ball was thrown.

And as far as the other INT, again - it goes back to my point where unless he is hit right in the chest, he aint catching it. Nicks' hands are suppose to be his strength, as they are so big and he is suppose to hold onto everything. And lets stop with this full speed shit, if that was full speed, there are OL who run faster than him.
He dogged it this year. Hakeem Nicks put Hakeem Nicks ahead of the team, which is fine. But stop making excuses for him. He was in position to make plays this yesterday and throughout the year. He didnt. To be honest, I dont care if he leaves and becomes a 2,000 yard receiver. He is not a "Giant". Ill take Dez's immaturity over Nicks selfish attitude any day of the week.

In comment 11398337 JCin332 said:

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ever gone on to have any sort of career after leaving? How could he not be motivated in his contract year?

Well, who are we talking about here? We can eliminate the likes of Tim Carter or Sinorice Moss because they just weren't any good. Smith's career imploded because he was physically ruined. Post-prison Plax was 34 and had missed two full seasons of football. Toomer was was old and finished. Essentially, you're talking about one guy - Manningham.

He has not played well, that is obvious. He has played through injury in the past, and has been a solid guy. Nobody here knows his frame of mind or his physical condition, and how either impacts his play.

But many immediately blame a lack of effort for every throw to him that goes wrong. The int over the middle yesterday was a great play by the DB and the throw didn't lead Nicks to where he could catch it and not the DB.

On the int in the end zone, the DB had perfect position and Nicks' hands are higher than those of the DB. Nicks says he jumped too soon.

Bottom line is Nicks won't be back and finding his replacement will be the highest draft priority.

Spot on. Lack of effort and emotion was evident and witnessed by all. Every team interested in Nicks as a free agent have to wonder what is up, and is this guy worth shelling out big miney for. He did play (or not play) his way out of millions.

It's about the 2013 version of Hakeem Nicks. I think we will all get our answer next season.

of course it will have an impact, I even said as much above. But not more than a new injury.

He's still young and still has good seasons under his belt. He's getting paid next year because of that and not being injured this year (a known injury).

I don't see how that can be disputed. People look for fancy answer all the time, sometimes its a simple as a guy looking out for himself. That is what I believe is the case.

years ago. He dogged it, wouldn't go over the middle and never took a hit. What happened? They rewarded him with a massive contract and he's been awesome since.

In comment 11398364 oldutican said:

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He has not played well, that is obvious. He has played through injury in the past, and has been a solid guy. Nobody here knows his frame of mind or his physical condition, and how either impacts his play. But many immediately blame a lack of effort for every throw to him that goes wrong. The int over the middle yesterday was a great play by the DB and the throw didn't lead Nicks to where he could catch it and not the DB. On the int in the end zone, the DB had perfect position and Nicks' hands are higher than those of the DB. Nicks says he jumped too soon. Bottom line is Nicks won't be back and finding his replacement will be the highest draft priority.

I think Eli, with good reason, is this years whipping boy. Its only been lately people have gotten on Nicks.

But drafting a WR early is going to be interesting. Watkins, Lee, and Evans. Are any of them worth that high of a 1st round grade, and will they make a difference?

...on both Nick's INTs, the CB had perfect position. Eli gave Nicks a jump ball where the other guy had the advantage. I didn't think Nicks gave it his best effort on the first INT, but on the second one he jumped as high as he could go. Especially that 2nd Nicks INT... Eli needed to throw that ball either:

(1) OVER Richard Marshall;
(2) Or out of bounds!

I think maybe the same could be said of the first INT as well.

tons of chances to make plays yesterday... underthrown jump ball, underthrown crossing route, and late and underthrown fade route.
i mean make a play man! great job.
I dont defend Nick's production. I defend the BS that comes out of your posts and others who act like this guy gives zero effort and cant ever get open. its simply not the case. hes had a down and disappointing year but if there are 8 big reasons our offense stinks he is about #8.
LG, C, RG, LT, TE, QB, O coordinator are LIGHT years ahead of the few plays that nicks has botched that he realistically had a shot of completing. realistic means not by your judgement

Simply put, I believe Nicks' attitude will cost him. A physical injury can heal, but a guy's mental makeup cannot be changed. We learned a lot about the second one this year, and so did ther league. If it were a simple ankle, or knee, it will heal and the "real" Nicks will perform in 2014. But, it is not as simple as that. It is his mental makeup, and that cannot be changed. Zebrs do not change their stripes.

In comment 11398388 hitdog42 said:

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tons of chances to make plays yesterday... underthrown jump ball, underthrown crossing route, and late and underthrown fade route. i mean make a play man! great job. I dont defend Nick's production. I defend the BS that comes out of your posts and others who act like this guy gives zero effort and cant ever get open. its simply not the case. hes had a down and disappointing year but if there are 8 big reasons our offense stinks he is about #8. LG, C, RG, LT, TE, QB, O coordinator are LIGHT years ahead of the few plays that nicks has botched that he realistically had a shot of completing. realistic means not by your judgement

Let me ask you this...

Ifguys like Megatron, Marhsall, Jeffrey, bryant, Green, Jones, and other WRs are given 1-1 opportunities, do you think their QB throws it to them and gives them a chance to make a play. Id say they do it MULTIPLE times a game. Good to great WRs make plays. The ball doesnt fall in their lap for all their catches. They outjump, they outmuscle, they outwork, and they get separation to make catches. You think Hakeem Nicks does that? Not even close. He stops on routes, he runs routes half speed.

If Eli doesnt throw it in his chest, he cant catch it. And if Eli would only throw it to him when he is open, he would get 1-2 target a game. HE had 5 targets yesterday that resulted in 3 INTs which he could not get open on. His production is so bad, that many believe we need to take a WR with a top 10 pick this year.

You dont think that a problem? Of course not. Hakeem Nicks has been the biggest disappointment in skilled players in the NFL this year. But hey, at least he still smiles in a blowout!

Nicks has been a good teammate his whole career up til now. Teams understand the business aspect of football and they'd be more willing to look the other way in that regard as opposed to ANOTHER injury for an injury prone player.

In comment 11398387 M.S. said:

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...on both Nick's INTs, the CB had perfect position. Eli gave Nicks a jump ball where the other guy had the advantage. I didn't think Nicks gave it his best effort on the first INT, but on the second one he jumped as high as he could go. Especially that 2nd Nicks INT... Eli needed to throw that ball either: (1) OVER Richard Marshall; (2) Or out of bounds! I think maybe the same could be said of the first INT as well.

I dont disagree with this analysis. But again, it comes back to watching other games around the league. There are many WRs who have less talent that just make better plays on the ball and do a better job of getting open. The point is Nicks doesnt separate on routes, cant out run DBs, and cant out jump them on 1-1 situations.

The real question is, why is he even playing?

In comment 11398408 dep026 said:

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In comment 11398388 hitdog42 said: Quote: tons of chances to make plays yesterday... underthrown jump ball, underthrown crossing route, and late and underthrown fade route. i mean make a play man! great job. I dont defend Nick's production. I defend the BS that comes out of your posts and others who act like this guy gives zero effort and cant ever get open. its simply not the case. hes had a down and disappointing year but if there are 8 big reasons our offense stinks he is about #8. LG, C, RG, LT, TE, QB, O coordinator are LIGHT years ahead of the few plays that nicks has botched that he realistically had a shot of completing. realistic means not by your judgement Let me ask you this... Ifguys like Megatron, Marhsall, Jeffrey, bryant, Green, Jones, and other WRs are given 1-1 opportunities, do you think their QB throws it to them and gives them a chance to make a play. Id say they do it MULTIPLE times a game. Good to great WRs make plays. The ball doesnt fall in their lap for all their catches. They outjump, they outmuscle, they outwork, and they get separation to make catches. You think Hakeem Nicks does that? Not even close. He stops on routes, he runs routes half speed. If Eli doesnt throw it in his chest, he cant catch it. And if Eli would only throw it to him when he is open, he would get 1-2 target a game. HE had 5 targets yesterday that resulted in 3 INTs which he could not get open on. His production is so bad, that many believe we need to take a WR with a top 10 pick this year. You dont think that a problem? Of course not. Hakeem Nicks has been the biggest disappointment in skilled players in the NFL this year. But hey, at least he still smiles in a blowout!

Well said dep(for once!!). Top WR's make plays on bad thrown balls more often than not. Nicks hasn't come close to making a play this year. I believe he's fully capable though. That smiling at the end of the game annoyed the crap out of me.

"up to now" is the key line. The first time he faces adversity in his career, and he wines like a spoiled bitch and his play reflects his emotion. I do not think I have it backwards. Not once did I say he was not a good teammate, but does a good teammate do ouit and give 70% when others are giving 100%? Please answer that in the context of a good teammate.

In comment 11398379 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 11398364 oldutican said: Quote: He has not played well, that is obvious. He has played through injury in the past, and has been a solid guy. Nobody here knows his frame of mind or his physical condition, and how either impacts his play. But many immediately blame a lack of effort for every throw to him that goes wrong. The int over the middle yesterday was a great play by the DB and the throw didn't lead Nicks to where he could catch it and not the DB. On the int in the end zone, the DB had perfect position and Nicks' hands are higher than those of the DB. Nicks says he jumped too soon. Bottom line is Nicks won't be back and finding his replacement will be the highest draft priority. I think Eli, with good reason, is this years whipping boy. Its only been lately people have gotten on Nicks. But drafting a WR early is going to be interesting. Watkins, Lee, and Evans. Are any of them worth that high of a 1st round grade, and will they make a difference?

It's always about Eli with you. Both Nicks and Eli have played poorly, but only Nicks gets called out for lack of effort/desire. I don't pretend to get in these guys' heads. Football is a damn tough & dangerous way to make a good living, so I try not to question a player's courage etc.

for whatever reason is a major problem this year. it started last year with injuries and carried over to the offseason... but its far down the list.
but you cant make bad throws become good throws. if you believe that he should have prevented those picks yesterday... ill give you maybe 1... the first one where his timing was terrible and the DB was in PERFECT position as a bad ball. the 2nd short one laws of physics tell you the defender gets it. and the last one he beat the guy the throw was late and the defender popped it up. it was a good play against a terrible throw.
nicks has not been good, ive never said that. but you cant make bad throws good throws. these are not 50/50 balls.

But Nicks used to...

In comment 11398430 hitdog42 said:

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but you cant make bad throws become good throws. but you cant make bad throws good throws. these are not 50/50 balls.

Many analysis, WRs, and coaches would disagree 110% on this. Watch other WRs in the league. A lot of them make bad throws into big plays.

Agree. look at the pass Cruz caught yesterday. The ball was thrown high, Cruz went up and got it (and got hurt doing so). Not sure Nicks would have given the same effort. The 2011 version of Nicks would have, not the 2013 version.

In comment 11398421 johnnyb said:

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"up to now" is the key line. The first time he faces adversity in his career, and he wines like a spoiled bitch and his play reflects his emotion. I do not think I have it backwards. Not once did I say he was not a good teammate, but does a good teammate do ouit and give 70% when others are giving 100%? Please answer that in the context of a good teammate.

The players and teams understand that this is a business and a job. The fans do not.

Desean Jackson did this, got paid, and its playing well. Nicks is the better WR, is likely taking the same route, will get paid, and life will go on.

Sure, his gigantic $30 million guaranteed money payday is probably over, but $20 million is certainly in the realm still as long as he isn't injured.

then I guess we will agree to disagree. I think Nicks quit on the Giants and you believe this is just business as usual. We will see in the off season where the bids for his services come in. It takes one dumb owner to break the bank.

Let me state my point clearly....

I believe that Nicks' problems this year go way beyond injuries and a bad offense. I believe he was most concerned with staying healthy going into a contract year. I also believe that he is upset with the Giants for not signing him and giving him the security he wants. Especially after Cruz got paid.

I believe that going into the offseason, Nicks has a better chance to see a bigger contract if he's healthy coming off of a down year as opposed to getting hurt again.

I believe that teams and players understand that this is a business decision and while it will hurt his next contract, there will be a team willing to pay him as a top WR. He probably won't get as much as he would have coming off of a good year, but being healthy is more important.

Nicks' down year had a ripple effect on this team. We are an offensive team. We rely on the offense putting up points to win games. Without Nicks playing well and demanding attention, it effected Cruz negatively. Cruz has proven to be most effective when Nicks was playing and playing well.

i guess and then he wouldnt be a "diva" :)

i apologize for slightly invading the thread earlier. bad form. apols.

I can barely read what you wrote anyway.

i have been saying the same thing all year.
Nicks has history of not making it thru the season
this year he did

,He had a down year on a lousy team , someone who needs a number 1 receiver is going to pay him $$$

The Tell for me was the first few games where Nicks was dropping balls that hit his hands -
Nicks' mitts are huge , previously the guy did not drop balls that got into his hands - you could see his was not concentrating on the field and he did not care.

in the way each teams WR's were fighting for the ball..

Wilson threw a few balls off his back foot up for grabs and the only one picked off was by Rolle..Prince should have had 1 if not 2..

You mean the DeSean Jackson that went for 58/961/4 TDs AND returned punts?

are you suggesting that DJax didn't "dog it" in his contract year in Philly?

...I think it's a very interesting question why Nicks hasn't been sat down.

One thing "seems" clear: if so many BBIers have it right, and Nicks is just dogging it out there; protecting himself; conducting a silent protest against the Cruz contract; just sulking and yadda yadda yadda...

...then it is a 100% guarantee he would have been "sat down" already. But the fact that he's still starting should give everyone pause before they rush to judgement on "what the hell is wrong with Nicks?"

This is a bit of a mystery!

the best way to get hurt playing football is not to go all out and leave yourself vulnerable. Is that now not true when it comes to Nicks?

and resigned Cruz for a reasonable contract.

Nicks can go screw himself.

That being the case, we don't have another young WR to see how he does? After yesterdays performance, The Giants dont have any WR to play??

he's trying to avoid injury.

I also think his pride took a big last offseason when all the talk was about needing to resign Cruz.

If you were Nicks, last year of his rookie contract trying to get what will probably be his most lucrative contract starting in 2014, what would you do in 2013?

I've had tried my best to stretch and exercise to avoid injury. Then I'd play my ass off so hard it would shock my team.

If I was also a shitbird (USMC nomanclature) I go on vacation AFTER I had my guaranteed money in the bank.

Why take the year off in 2013? Could he be damaged goods?

Mario wanted out because he wanted to be the #1 WR.

Nicks is sulking because Cruz signed a big contract, is Eli's favorite WR and does the salsa.

I like Nicks and appreciate what he did for the Giants in the past. So, I hope he doesn't suffer the same fate that Mario did with his new team.

to see if Nicks goes all out in Week 17.