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Bill O'Brien do we pass up on him

Essex : 12/18/2013 8:59 am
to give Coughlin one more year. I really feel that he can be a home run hire. He totally transformed Brady after the offense went stagnant in 2010. They cut Moss, changed to the two TE formation and it really did wonders. He took a walk on in McGloin and made him a college standout and a NFL player. Bottom line is that he is a terrific coach.

Now, we all have to realize that the next coach has like .000001 chance of being as successful TC. However, if the point is to give him one year for him to leave on a better note; I am not sure I am signing up for that. Either we make a 3 or 4 year commitment to Coughlin to turn this around and he obviously would have to make that commitment to us, too. I am not on board for a one year extension. A one year extension does nothing. This is a rebuilding job and either TC is the man to do it, or he is not. But, if we give him a one year deal, it will solve nothing, other than make us feel better about rewarding someone who has done great things for us. So, in the final analysis, I do not want to pass up a good coach such as O'Brien, to give TC a better year to leave on. I want to start rebuilding now. Management needs to decide whether Coughlin is the guy for the next 3 or 4 years, not one.
My point is given that the Vikings and Skins  
Essex : 12/18/2013 9:00 am : link
are coming after him hard, he probably won't be around next year.
I like  
eleven : 12/18/2013 9:11 am : link
that O'Brien wasn't afraid to challenge Brady on the sidelines. Reminds me of Parcells with Simms. We could use a little more of that. I also like that he is a QB coach, an Offensive guru, and from the Belichick tree. Not to mention, doesn't mind coaching in the cold. I can't fathom giving TC a 3 or 4 year extension. I love the guy but at 67 and the way the team has played over a 20 game span, its just time.
Accorsi  
Simms11 : 12/18/2013 9:12 am : link
used to have that Penn State connection and would have had a hook on O'Brien, but not so sure this regime will look that closely?! Contrary to popular belief, TC will not coach forever and someone else will be coaching this team within the next few years. I'm sure the Giants hierarchy have their list of potential replacements, but not so sure O'Brien is one of them.
Short of the right job, if O'Brien was going to leave PSU so soon,  
Bramton1 : 12/18/2013 9:14 am : link
he would have done it last offseason.

And I seriously doubt Minnesota, Washington, or Houston are necessarily the "right jobs." The guy grew up in Rhode Island and Massachusetts, and coached for the Patriots. I really think when Belichick eventually retires, that is a job O'Brien would be VERY interested in.
Disagree  
nyfan76 : 12/18/2013 9:37 am : link
O'Brien didn't want to leave right away and wanted to put in a little more time at Penn st. Also, there have been things that say his relationship with Penn St isn't quite as good after they got more sanctions than he was led to believe they would.

It sure seems like he's going this year.
tom c  
gmanod : 12/18/2013 9:39 am : link
Is definitely not the man for rebuilding because he doesn't like to play rookies
If Coughlin retires  
Big Rick in FL : 12/18/2013 9:44 am : link
Or gets axed I would like us to go after Whisenhunt over O'Brien. He has won with Pittsburgh & a few years with Arixona. He rejuvenated Warner's career & is now doing the same thing with Rivers. The O he runs in SD now is way better then ours. I was very impressed with the play calling in the Giants game. A lot of high percentage passes in his playbook. Which Eli has never had. We would finally see Eli throw for 30 TDs & 10-15 INTs in my opinion.
I don't think O'Brien is leaving any time soon  
Jay on the Island : 12/18/2013 9:58 am : link
If any team wants to hire O'Brien they have to pay Penn State a 7 million dollar buyout and then on top of that pay 6-7 million a year to O'Brien to be the teams new head coach. I can't see a team dishing out 13-14 million to hire him right now.
Head-scratching  
Bramton1 : 12/18/2013 10:09 am : link
The renewed interest in Bill O'Brien appears to be launched publically by an article by Jason La Canfora at cbssports.com. In the article, La Canfora tries to make the point that O'Brien stayed after last year because he felt he owed it to his players, but would have no problem with leaving now.

Here's the part I don't get, and considering it's a major part of his argument...

Quote:
...but relations between him and the school frayed some when the school was subjected to more post-Sandusky sanctions than expected, and he also had three staff members depart recently. His buyout is less financially restrictive than in past years, and furthermore, there could be litigation over his buyout as well, if the situation escalates, given the penalties the program faced.


Huge issues with this part.

1. More sanctions? Is he referring to the sanctions that were initially announced in July 2012? It was reported that O'Brien wasn't happy with how many years were added to his contract due to the sanctions (from 5 to 9 years). Then he and Penn State went and amended his contract back in June. Now it's back to five years. On top of that, Penn State had its sanctions REDUCED in September. So that point makes no sense.

2. Three staff members? I've only heard about two. There are also rumors that they were "leave or be let go" resignations. Unclear.

3. Litigation over buyouts because of the sanctions. Again, that might be valid if O'Brien and the university hadn't amended the contract six months ago, or 11 months after the sanctions were announced. The amended contract actually makes the buyout different for pro and college, with it becoming much lower in a return to the NFL (it's pretty cost-restrictive to go coach another college team). So yeah, I don't think litigation would work.

O'Brien might very well head back to the NFL after the current season. He might very well opt to stay at Penn State. I definitely don't see him staying permanently. But La Canfora's arguments about why he's going to leave now are pure crap.
Bill O'Brien is intriguing  
oipolloi : 12/18/2013 11:03 am : link
because he has NFL experience under Bill B.

But you always have to be concerned about guys making the jump from college to the pros with no previous NFL head coaching experience
RE: I don't think O'Brien is leaving any time soon  
steve in ky : 12/18/2013 11:17 am : link
In comment 11402987 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
If any team wants to hire O'Brien they have to pay Penn State a 7 million dollar buyout and then on top of that pay 6-7 million a year to O'Brien to be the teams new head coach. I can't see a team dishing out 13-14 million to hire him right now.


I could be wrong, but I think that number only applies if he leaves to coach another college team. I don't think the same numbers would apply if he left for the NFL.
Steve  
Jay on the Island : 12/18/2013 11:20 am : link
No there is another provision if he leaves for a college program. I think the buyout is 10 million for another college program.
Jay  
steve in ky : 12/18/2013 11:26 am : link
you're probably right then, I just remember reading that his buyout is structured in a way that makes it much more expensive to leave to another college and more affordable if he leaves for the NFL. I didn't know the specifics.
would be fine getting him  
nyynyg : 12/18/2013 11:48 am : link
that would be a great hire, and getting someone from the Bill B coaching tree
I like Wisenhunt as well.  
Curtis in VA : 12/18/2013 11:51 am : link
Dont' really know anything about Bill O'Brien.
I would suggest  
JonC : 12/18/2013 11:52 am : link
those seeking to replace TC are viewing this from a lens different from that of management.

Despite all the brutally ugly and inept of 2013, I suspect we're not replacing TC or much of his staff. They're going to chart it all out and determine that injuries, poor performance, and a lack of talent were the major contributing factors.
Would be a nice hire  
Mike in NY : 12/18/2013 11:55 am : link
But I see him eventually wanting the New England job and Belichick is 61 so not that much younger than Coughlin. O'Brien is an East Coast guy so I could see Washington having interest but Snyder would go for a bigger splash like Urban Meyer if he was looking at the college ranks
Having witnessed the Whisenhunt regime first hand...  
hitchchops : 12/18/2013 11:56 am : link
...I would pass on him in a heartbeat. The Giants do not need a guy who got run out of Arizona for consistent idiotic decisions and an inability to deal with the media pressure..in Phoenix, Christ, he would get killed in NYC
O'Brien has the opportunity  
JoefromPa : 12/18/2013 1:35 pm : link
to be Penn State's coach for the next 15 years. His family loves it at State College and so does he. What makes you all so certain he is willing to leave for the insecurity of the NFL.
Joe  
Mike in NY : 12/18/2013 1:45 pm : link
Money, fame

If he goes to the right organization that will show patience with their head coach (Giants, Steelers, Patriots) he will have similar job stability and even if unsuccessful in the NFL he can land a more lucrative job next time in college (look at what happened when guys like Pete Carroll and USC and also Dennis Erickson)
O'Brien will bolt for a major NFL franchise offering top dollar  
Torrag : 12/18/2013 1:47 pm : link
...you won't see him in Jacksonville or anywhere similarly sucky.
I agree with JonC here.  
GiantFilthy : 12/18/2013 1:51 pm : link
I have a feeling that management will want to check off every possible reason for failure from the list before they even consider coaching could have played a role.
I could see us having interest in O'Brien or David Shaw if TC is on  
yatqb : 12/18/2013 1:57 pm : link
the way out. I doubt that we'd settle for any guy w/o any HC experience, and both of those guys have same.
Management (John Mara)  
Jon T : 12/18/2013 4:21 pm : link
has the right to be pretty pissed off at the end of 4 of the past 5 seasons. They likely keep the staff but I'm sure there's a small part of JM that is curious to see E in a more modern O with a new voice at the helm. None of us know how much longer TC wants to coach, could be 5 years could be 1 and if it's one it's a wasted year. He's not getting fired but the franchise is at point where they need to get some answers from him and Bill O' B would be an ideal replaceement wheather now or in 2+years
I hope we don't pass him up  
bignygfan : 12/19/2013 12:13 am : link
No doubt in my mind 0Brien surpasses what this staff has done.

Plus he yelled at Tom Brady and Brady is dreamy.
OK  
steve in ky : 12/19/2013 12:15 am : link
So you have no doubt that he will lead an NFL team to at least thee Super Bowl championships in the future? Do you know how rare that is?

Quote:
No doubt in my mind 0Brien surpasses what this staff has done.
That should read three not thee  
steve in ky : 12/19/2013 12:25 am : link
as in 3
I doubt management will make changes as well  
nyynyg : 12/19/2013 8:32 am : link
They should but they won't. Which is why everything that Mara or Reese say is just words. Too many are clinging to the money quotes. If they fire TC (resign, whatever ) I will be pleasantly surprised.
RE: I would suggest  
Essex : 12/19/2013 9:00 am : link
In comment 11403326 JonC said:
Quote:
those seeking to replace TC are viewing this from a lens different from that of management.

Despite all the brutally ugly and inept of 2013, I suspect we're not replacing TC or much of his staff. They're going to chart it all out and determine that injuries, poor performance, and a lack of talent were the major contributing factors.


I agree there is no chance that TC won't come back if he wants to, which I assume he does. However, a major part of this thread was if we judge that talent is a major issue, don't we need a rebuilding job and do we feel comfortable putting that in TC's hands at this late stage of his career?

Agree with Jon T.  
drkenneth : 12/19/2013 9:21 am : link
Mara needs to start planning the exit strategy for TC (if he hasn't already). Bringing TC back for 1 year is a waste. If he wants to coach 3 more years, one would think that would come with major staff changes. Bringing this entire staff back next year, for one year is a waste of a year.
Essex  
JonC : 12/19/2013 9:48 am : link
What I posted is part in parcel of what I'm hearing behind the scenes. A complete rebuilding job is very unlikely too.
part and parcel  
JonC : 12/19/2013 9:51 am : link
caffeine!
RE: RE: I would suggest  
dcable : 12/19/2013 11:59 am : link
In comment 11404749 Essex said:
[quote] In comment 11403326 JonC said:


Quote:


those seeking to replace TC are viewing this from a lens different from that of management.

Despite all the brutally ugly and inept of 2013, I suspect we're not replacing TC or much of his staff. They're going to chart it all out and determine that injuries, poor performance, and a lack of talent were the major contributing factors.



I agree there is no chance that TC won't come back if he wants to, which I assume he does. However, a major part of this thread was if we judge that talent is a major issue, don't we need a rebuilding job and do we feel comfortable putting that in TC's hands at this late stage of his career?
] agree. Due to the poor drafts over the last several yrs their lack of talent at TE, WR, OL, CB, LB and DE dictates this is a multi yr rebuild assuming they can have some productive drafts. developing young players isnot TC strength. Hopefully, Mara/Tisch decision will be whats good for Giants and not ego's of coaches
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