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Could the 2013 draft be a turning point? Some optimism

pjcas18 : 12/18/2013 12:01 pm
in an otherwise miserable season. And by turning point I mean the start of a offensive and defensive line rebuilding. Many people feel you need to build your team from the lines out. I agree kind of in that if you can't control the line of scrimmage you cannot execute your game plan, so if you don't build from the lines out, you at least need to make them a priority.

the Giants already have some skill position players (Cruz and Randle to name a couple) and QB locked up.

So did the Giants add 3 future stalwarts on the lines in the 2013 draft?

I think we can all agree Pugh looks like a keeper. he's arguably outplayed Joekel, Fisher, Johnson and Fluker - the 4 tackles taken ahead of him. I also believe Pugh has played among the most snaps of any NFL rookie. He hasn't missed a snap all year.

Hankins and Moore obviously still are question marks, but both have shown flashes. Hankins has more than just flashed IMO (comparatively speaking).

Hankins has seen FAR more playing time than Linval Joseph did as a rookie and has graded out very well by PFF - particularly against the run. Linval played 62 total snaps as a rookie. Hankins already has over 150.

Moore has flashed athleticism and maybe the next two weeks we see more of him (Jenkins and JPP both hurt right now).

The team needs a guard (at least one) in a big way and another DE.

but the youth movement on the lines seems to have started.

It's not often you can infuse this kind of youth successfully into your lines in one draft, at least I don't think so.

Reese and Ross are slammed for the drafts lately - rightfully so - this one might very possibly yield three key starters (in the first three picks).

I agree with you.....but the 2014 draft will be very important  
GiantBlue : 12/18/2013 12:11 pm : link
based on how the team performed this year. We need to continue to focus on the interior OL, DE and CB. We also need to improve our RB skill/speed based on Wilson's availability.
Totally agree  
pjcas18 : 12/18/2013 12:17 pm : link
some of 2014 obviously depends on what happens with the FO.

If Reese, Ross, and the scouts are still here (which I doubt all go unscathed after this seasons debacle) then yeah, keep the process going. Add a guard and another DE.

That IMO are the priorities for this team in no specific order:


The Giants could use CB depth or even a starter over Hosley, but that's not as necessary as the above.
we need to see more of  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 12/18/2013 12:23 pm : link
Moore... just because he blocked a few punts doesnt mean he can play DE...

Kiwi should take a seat... who cares what Moore does or does not know at this point....he needs to play!
old man : 12/18/2013 12:25 pm : link
a likely 10-15, closer to 10, draft position, and the QBs nedded/available,if 2-3 in that 1-15 group draft and unexpected pick/trade out for a team targeting 1 player, which then dominos the draft somewhat, we could get 1 of the top 2/3 on our board, especially at OL.
Allthings status quo even, at lets say 12 and 44-46, and if 4-5 taken are QBs, 2 of the top remaining 40 are ours.
Likely to get a day 1 in those 2 picks.
Agree Old Man  
pjcas18 : 12/18/2013 12:27 pm : link
I just feel like there is no situation where it makes sense to take a OT and you're not taking a guard that high, the Giants need to fix Beatty and Pugh (as far as I've read) is a better tackle than a guard.

so if the Giants stand pat at 10 (or wherever) think they pick the best among DE, TE, or WR).

My best case and things never work out this way, is to trade down into guard vicinity (so late teens early 20's) and pick up an additional 1st or 2nd and get both a guard/center and a TE/WR in the first.
I'm extremely optimistic  
Phil from WNY : 12/18/2013 12:29 pm : link
about next year. I love the first three picks this year with Hankins being my favorite which says something because Pugh has been awesome. If the Giants can grab a premium OT and OG in this draft, possibly even an OC, I'll be beyond happy.
lugnut : 12/18/2013 12:46 pm : link
I'm with ya...mostly. I've said here before that, assuming we pick high (no longer an assumption), say #10, please, please let's trade down and have 3 picks in first 2 rounds. I'd go OL twice and CB with those picks. I'd be open to a DE or WR (especially now that the Nicks mess has become clear), maybe even a sensational TE, instead of 1 of those OLs (you can get good centers in the 3rd, right?).

But you say "The Giants could use CB depth or even a starter over Hosley, but that's not as necessary as the above." Don't agree with that at all -- CWeb and Ross are gone/done (31+ y.o. and ending season injured or on IR - 'nuff said) -- we manifestly need CB in the worst way.
Still too early obviously.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/18/2013 12:49 pm : link
We all thought we had a great player in JPP and now we have no clue. Pugh looks like a solid nfl starter. Hankins flashed a bit and Moore a bit on specials.

A different draft class, but when I watched Hosley late in the season, I saw a flash of what he could be. That quick slot corner who can really stick with the Welkers, etc. I hope he trends upwards.
pjcas18 : 12/18/2013 12:53 pm : link
you're probably right, but worst case is Prince and Hosley start and that really hasn't been an issue when they did.

McBride started last week and played well, I don't know what he'd cost, but he'd be a guy I look to re-sign.

Prince, Hosley, McBride, and that is where I'd spend some free agent $$$. Brent Grimes, Aqib Talib, Sam Shields, Tim Jennings, etc all free agents - IMO CB's are one spot where free agents can be brought in and have it work out well.

AcidTest : 12/18/2013 12:56 pm : link
thread. Hankins and Moore were accomplished, but young. Moore also had maturity issues that caused him to slip. Pugh has been much better than expected. He needs to get stronger, but will in the offseason. His missteps are not uncommon for rookies, and as someone said, he has been the best of the first round OTs taken in 2013.

Nassib is for the future, if at all. Taylor was always going to be for ST at most as a rookie. Herman needs work on his pass blocking, and Cox was another ST player.

In the offseason, we need a center, and at least one guard. Then hope one of Brewer, Mosley, or Herman can develop into at least a competent backup.

We also definitely need another CB. Hosley has shown flashes, but we need to use a high pick on this position.

The other needs are TE, DE, LB, and WR. We need so much because we have drafted so poorly.
I'm still high on the Nassib pick.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/18/2013 12:59 pm : link
Kid is supposedly a hard worker and has good tools. If he can eliminate the Painter position he will save, what 1MIL in cap room and open a roster spot? That's a good value. If he plays well, he's a solid backup and eventual trade bait.
I hated the Nassib pick and thought it was a waste  
pjcas18 : 12/18/2013 1:08 pm : link
but I never viewed in that way Jim.

It's a fair point.

I'm not a huge fan of Cox, I think he'll be gone next year but I think Cooper Taylor is interesting as is Hermann.

One of these late round OL needs to become a starter eventually, take a lot of pressure off the cap.
Agree that focus should be on O & D-lines  
Jimmy Googs : 12/18/2013 1:18 pm : link
in order to have consistent success. Largely because you carry more of these players than the other other positions.

Good D-lineman seem to typically be the higher draft picks. But O-lineman seem to be a fairly wide mixture of high picks, later picks and even undrafted personnel for whatever reason.

However, lack of investment on the O-line has clearly been the Giant downfall. We got away with it for many seasons by plugging in non-premium players and assuming Flaherty was a genius. But that risk caught up with us big-time.

Although Beatty and JPP have had down years, those guys in combination with Pugh, Hankins, Moore, and hopefully Joseph form a decent set of big young bodies on our lines that hopefully we can build on.
Doomster : 12/18/2013 1:20 pm : link
until Hankins and Moore actually go out there and start, we really have no idea of what kind of players they are.....yet people are counting on them like they are bonafide starters next season.....I still don't understand the Nassib pick.....Did Taylor check into camp with the word "fragile" stamped on the back of his shirt? Herman didn't even make the last cut, and look at what we have for OLmen....Cox was going to be another Bradshaw....not.....

We have screwed the pooch on too many drafts.....if we have a high pick, we can only hope for the best.....out track record does not dictate that....
not arguing Doomster - you're right  
pjcas18 : 12/18/2013 1:24 pm : link
but like I said - Hankins has played twice as much as Linval Joseph did as rookie (already) and done an admirable job (per PFF rating) and my own eyes.

I think we've seen enough to not necessarily pencil him in as an all-pro or anything but to give him a shot as the starter (if Linval is not re-signed) and feel positive about doing it.

Need to see more of Moore, but I'm hopeful with him too.
I'd rather be the Giants than Dallas or Washington  
BillT : 12/18/2013 1:35 pm : link
And Philly just got blow out by Minnesota. People here complain about Eli. Anyone want to trade him for Folk, Romo RGIII or Cousins? Or trade the Giants D for any of the other Ds in the division?
It would take a little luck, like all drafts do,  
barens : 12/18/2013 1:36 pm : link
but San Diego nailed there draft last year, and there fortunes changed, so yeah, it could always be a turning point.
the problem is that they would need 100% hit ration in the  
Victor in CT : 12/18/2013 1:53 pm : link
2014 draft just to make up for the 0% of 2012.
*hit ratio*  
Victor in CT : 12/18/2013 1:54 pm : link
not "hit ration"
I haven't given up on Randle  
pjcas18 : 12/18/2013 1:58 pm : link
and Hosley, and Wilson at worst could be a game-changing KR.

Not what you want from your top 3 picks, but it could actually be worse.
Poster makes good points  
jLefty : 12/18/2013 2:00 pm : link
clear thinking.But if a dream WR is there for the taking that would be my choice. Then OT,OG,DE not necessarily in that order. And wouldn't it be great to get a really exciting FA. Maybe two./
I think  
lugnut : 12/18/2013 2:19 pm : link
part of new approach / house cleaning should be not waiting overlong for talent to develop. Someone wrote about hoping Brewer, Mosley, or Herman "can develop into at least a competent backup." Herman as a rookie gets a pass, but Brewer, Mosley? We're setting the bar so low and then giving them what, 3, 4 years now to reach that "high"? I've never even seen Mosley on the field. Get rid of him!

RE: I'd rather be the Giants than Dallas or Washington  
Jimmy Googs : 12/18/2013 2:23 pm : link
In comment 11403546 BillT said:
And Philly just got blow out by Minnesota. People here complain about Eli. Anyone want to trade him for Folk, Romo RGIII or Cousins? Or trade the Giants D for any of the other Ds in the division?

Easy does it. Not exactly a great week to show off.
BillT : 12/18/2013 4:01 pm : link
Not such a good week for the other teams either. Just saying.
Didn't Foles light it up again last week?  
Jimmy Googs : 12/18/2013 4:11 pm : link
I know Philly lost last week but this guy is playing like the starter in the pro bowl.

I think Hankin is going to be very good  
oipolloi : 12/18/2013 4:40 pm : link
better than Linval
Foles had a lot of garbage time yards  
oipolloi : 12/18/2013 4:41 pm : link
he sucked early on--at least, that is the way it looked on the RedZone
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