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McShay's 1st mock is out. And with the 11th pick the Giants

sjnyfan : 12/18/2013 2:31 pm
take CJ Mosley which I'd be thrilled with. He has 4 QBs in the first round, all within the first 6 picks including UCF's Blake Bortles to Oakland. Mack goes 8th to Minny.
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So they're taking an ILB with Beason almost certainly on the roster  
BillT : 12/18/2013 2:36 pm : link
Wow. Great pick.
Both Mosley and Beason can play all the LB positions  
jeff57 : 12/18/2013 2:39 pm : link
And like Beason, he's a three down LB. Better in coverage than Beason.

I could live with the pick. The guy is a real leader on D.
I like it.  
George : 12/18/2013 2:39 pm : link
With only four LBs on our roster, this is both a need and a value pick.
Beason is good not great. He seems better than he is because  
Victor in CT : 12/18/2013 2:41 pm : link
the LBs before him completely sucked balls. If they can get a real stud MLB then its a good move.

But as I said earlier, that can go anywhere but QB with the pick and fill a need. My preference is still to bolster the OL and DL first.
I  
AcidTest : 12/18/2013 2:42 pm : link
think we'd tack Mack before Mosley, but when ISN'T there a year where nearly EVERYBODY says we are taking a LB in the first round?
Victor,  
Randy in CT : 12/18/2013 2:45 pm : link
your take on Beason is stupid.
acid  
Hades07 : 12/18/2013 2:45 pm : link
I think in 1981 they thought the giants would draft George Rogers.
I am guessing a 29 year old LB that recently had microfracture surgery  
SB : 12/18/2013 2:46 pm : link
...is not in the Giants' long-term plans, now matter how well he played the last few weeks.
RE: Victor,  
Victor in CT : 12/18/2013 2:47 pm : link
In comment 11403717 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
your take on Beason is stupid.


Really? I didn't know that Beason is the 2nd coming of Harry Carson. He is a good player and I like him, but let's not get carried away. He is not great.
If they haven't addressed the offensive line in free agency,  
Curtis in VA : 12/18/2013 2:49 pm : link
and they don't pick one in the first round this coming April, I will punch myself in the balls repeatedly.

I just don't see how they can skip a need like that in the first round.
RE: If they haven't addressed the offensive line in free agency,  
jeff57 : 12/18/2013 2:51 pm : link
In comment 11403733 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
and they don't pick one in the first round this coming April, I will punch myself in the balls repeatedly.

I just don't see how they can skip a need like that in the first round.


The draft's not till May now. That should spare you a couple of weeks of pain.
This team  
MookGiants : 12/18/2013 2:52 pm : link
is not in a position to get straight best available in the draft.

They need offense or a DE, and they need it now.

Eli is not getting any younger. The offense needs help desperately
I can almost  
BigBlueCane : 12/18/2013 2:55 pm : link
guarantee Reese isn't drafting anyone from Bama. And after watching them collectively flame out, I can't blame him.

Reese will go after a DB.
I'd they don't go Guard or Tackle  
B in ALB : 12/18/2013 2:56 pm : link
with the first pick I'll be surprised.

And for the record - Beason is a hell of a lot better than just "good". Horrible take on a guy who instantly made the defense much better in the midst of its defensive backfield being decimated and continued sub par performance from pass rushers.
I  
AcidTest : 12/18/2013 2:56 pm : link
don't care who is on the board:

TRADE
DOWN
RE: I  
BillT : 12/18/2013 2:56 pm : link
In comment 11403709 AcidTest said:
Quote:
think we'd tack Mack before Mosley, but when ISN'T there a year where nearly EVERYBODY says we are taking a LB in the first round?


Well said AT!
BBC  
MookGiants : 12/18/2013 2:56 pm : link
did you fall on your head as a child?
Can we pick higer than 11  
BIG FRED : 12/18/2013 2:56 pm : link
if we lose the next 2 ? I would assume we can
That would be surprising  
JCin332 : 12/18/2013 2:57 pm : link
seeing as I read on BBI that they are drafting Bridgewater and trading Eli for 3 blue chip interior lineman..
We better  
old man : 12/18/2013 3:02 pm : link
be getting another pick in the first round, and it better be an OL.I know we'd probably have to trade Cruz to do that(since who else is marketable for a #1)and that likely won't happen.
OR, unless we grab 2 young veteran OL FAs (AMack, and DeLaP?/Guard).
RE: Can we pick higer than 11  
jeff57 : 12/18/2013 3:04 pm : link
In comment 11403755 BIG FRED said:
Quote:
if we lose the next 2 ? I would assume we can


Yes. But I think with a win over Washington, 10-12 is likely. If they finish 5-11, probably 8-10.
A few thoughts  
njm : 12/18/2013 3:06 pm : link
1. Mosley can play outside, so he doesn't necessarily compete with Beason.

2. I doubt the Giants draft an OT, as Matthews will likely be gone and he's the only I think they see as justifying sitting/cutting Beatty. I think Pugh stays at RT.

3. They will not take an OG or OC in the 1st unless they trade down. Neither Richardson nor Yankey merit pick #11 and none of the OCs are 1st rd. material.
I think the chances of us trading down  
Bill in UT : 12/18/2013 3:06 pm : link
and getting a substantial additional pick disappeared with the 4 game winning streak
Mosely  
chrispisano66 : 12/18/2013 3:07 pm : link
would be an absolute slam dunk.
old man...  
Mike in St. Louis : 12/18/2013 3:09 pm : link
Cruz isn't going anywhere...he's a proven commodity, we are already going to lose Nicks and his cap hit if traded would be huge...
NJM  
jeff57 : 12/18/2013 3:10 pm : link
If Cameron Erving comes out, he's someone they would take, I think.
I imagine we'll move up a few spots  
santacruzom : 12/18/2013 3:16 pm : link
in the draft before the season is over. The Titans play the Jags -- either the Titans improve to 6-9 or the Jags improve to 5-10, and I think the Jags have a slightly stronger SOS than we do. Hopefully Buffalo wins another game, and if the Skins beat Dallas this week (unlikely) and then us in the finale (more likely), we can finish with identical records.

Of course, I'm counting on us losing the last 2 games.
For the "trade down" crowd  
Mike from Ohio : 12/18/2013 3:25 pm : link
You do realize there has to be someone else willing to trade up to that specific spot, correct? Trading down is not always an option, unless you are willing to accept a below market deal.
enough of the trade down bullshit anyway  
UConn4523 : 12/18/2013 3:28 pm : link
we need a playmaker somewhere and we need it desperately. The later you pick, the less likely that will happen.
Trading down 8 to 10 spots  
jeff57 : 12/18/2013 3:30 pm : link
and scooping up another second round pick makes a lot of sense. The best scenario to make that happen is if there's a QB available when the Giants pick, say at 11. A team like Arizona, picking at 20, could want someone like Blake Bortles and might be worried that a team in between, like the Jets, might take him.
McShay must be playing a joke on the Giants fans?  
chiefmps : 12/18/2013 3:31 pm : link
C.J. Mosley... Let me think... NO, for the love of GOD, no. So many needs and there are even better ILB's that the Giants can draft at late as the third and maybe even the fourth round. Would rather have Shayne Skov, Chris Borland, Smallwood or even Bullought over Mosley. The Giants would do better if they wait.
RE: McShay must be playing a joke on the Giants fans?  
Will Allen/Peterson : 12/18/2013 3:36 pm : link
In comment 11403834 chiefmps said:
Quote:
Would rather have Shayne Skov, Chris Borland, Smallwood or even Bullought over Mosley. The Giants would do better if they wait.


You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're joking.
....  
Toth029 : 12/18/2013 3:46 pm : link
OG/C, TE, or DE.
...  
Toth029 : 12/18/2013 3:49 pm : link
I can also see Cornerback but I don't know any top corners that should be taken in the top 15.
chiefmps  
Lionhart28 : 12/18/2013 3:58 pm : link
what? just... what?
I hope there is a game changing  
kmed : 12/18/2013 4:01 pm : link
DE available with our pick! Get a stud DE opposite JPP and I guarantee the rest is good enough to be a great defense.
I don't think its actually possible for the Giants to pick a player  
Jimmy Googs : 12/18/2013 4:06 pm : link
in the next draft at #11 that couldn't help this team at some position...



any position.

RE: I hope there is a game changing  
Greg from LI : 12/18/2013 4:07 pm : link
In comment 11403877 kmed said:
Quote:
DE available with our pick! Get a stud DE opposite JPP and I guarantee the rest is good enough to be a great defense.


Assuming JPP ever stops playing like dogshit, perhaps.
RE: I hope there is a game changing  
Will Allen/Peterson : 12/18/2013 4:16 pm : link
In comment 11403877 kmed said:
Quote:
DE available with our pick! Get a stud DE opposite JPP and I guarantee the rest is good enough to be a great defense.


There won't be.
While the Giants  
BB2K5 : 12/18/2013 4:19 pm : link
absolutely need help on the O-Line, you have to figure Beatty (based on contract)& Pugh are the starting tackles next year. Would they draft an OG or Center in the 1st rd that high?
With a new system  
Lionhart28 : 12/18/2013 4:20 pm : link
a guy like Mack may be our best bet for some pass-rush help. Hopefully our DC would be creative enough to use him as both a LB and a rusher (Von Miller in Den comes to mind)
they will almost certainly take an OL  
oipolloi : 12/18/2013 4:23 pm : link
can't believe there are really people who are thinking LB
Reese and Ross  
TMS : 12/18/2013 4:26 pm : link
will not take an OL that high. They are all about measureables speed and size ratios. Thats why we have had lousy drafts for the past five years. Maybe this year they get told different from higher up.
Many needs  
spike : 12/18/2013 4:27 pm : link
CB, DE, OL, TE, WR, maybe RB later rounds..

just take someone who won't BUST!
TMS  
MookGiants : 12/18/2013 4:30 pm : link
you do realize they took Pugh last year, right? A first round pick with short arms
I have seen Guards taken that high before but  
Jimmy Googs : 12/18/2013 4:31 pm : link
its seems a stretch for a Center.

Nevertheless, we need both so unless there is a ton of good free agent Interior Lineman available, we need to go O-line.
After Clowney  
Bill in UT : 12/18/2013 4:33 pm : link
Barr and Mack, who will all likely be gone, there's probably not a rush guy worth taking at 11.
Mosley at 11 seems high  
Eli owns all : 12/18/2013 4:37 pm : link
I've seen him mocked a lot in the 17-25 range, however Justin Gilbert is very intriguing at CB for OK State. The only Defensive player I would draft in round 1 would be CB or LB, Ryan Shazier in round 2 would help a lot but I think we would have to trade up a little bit as he typically is mocked in the top of rd 2. I would like to get a LT and just cut bait on Beatty move on from a mistake. I am usually one to hate the trade down scenerio but I feel there is a lot of OT available this yr in Mathews, Greg Robinson (Auburn), Cameron Erving (FSU), Taylor Lewman (Michigan), Cyrus Kouandjio (Bama) So in a perfect world we could trade down grab any of the OT not named Mathews and get Ryan Shazier with our first 2 picks.
I agree with Curtis....  
BillKo : 12/18/2013 5:08 pm : link
we need OL in the worst way.

If you wanted to point to one unit in 2013 that was consistently poor, it was our OL.

I expect a center and guard to be taken, and one relatively high......plus another to be signed via free agency.

It's an offensive league....your most invested player is a QB who while good, can't do it alone via mobility and "athletic plays".

I expect them to look offense early and often in this draft.
Mook  
TMS : 12/18/2013 5:16 pm : link
I am aware but that was at #19 and we thought we were secure at DE, in the secondary and WR. Now that does not look that way. Reese came up under Accorsi who felt Ol should never be taken high.
Its not unthinkable to imagine picking a LT  
Jimmy Googs : 12/18/2013 5:18 pm : link
if a good one is sitting there at #11.

And depending upon how he looks in camp do some type of shuffling of Beatty, Pugh and get the rookie in there playing.

Not ideal for 2014 but maybe ideal for our future.

you certainly don't want to reach.....  
BillKo : 12/18/2013 5:20 pm : link
and perhaps getting a "playmaker" in the first round is the way to go. Whether that be a corner, WR, or DE/LB.

However, rounds two and three need to be looked at hard in regards to the interior line.

Not sexy picks, but you could see this year how our car broke down when the engine wasn't operating...............
AcidTest  
SB : 12/18/2013 5:23 pm : link
Quote:
when ISN'T there a year where nearly EVERYBODY says we are taking a LB in the first round?


The years when they have us taking a TE?
With needs  
dontboobigblue : 12/18/2013 5:24 pm : link
at OL, DE, CB and WR the last thing the Giants should do is use a top 15 pick on an OL.

OL can be had in free agency at a reasonable rate. The other positions cannot.

It's simple, you fix the OL in free agency and you use your picks in rd 1 and 2 to take the best available player at the other three positions.

If the Giants have a top ten pick  
Ash : 12/18/2013 5:28 pm : link
and hopefully we do and we take Mosley over other players then that probably means they think the guy has perrenial Pro Bowl potential. If it turns out he does then that makes us that much better as a team.
DE is unlikely this year, given the crop  
JonC : 12/18/2013 5:30 pm : link
I'd wager on CB or WR.
Why is Free Agency the better place for O-line help  
Jimmy Googs : 12/18/2013 5:30 pm : link
versus our other positions of need?
Jon  
dontboobigblue : 12/18/2013 5:33 pm : link
As it should be. They should be signing OL because solid players can be had at reasonable prices.

CB, DE, WR are too expensive to sign anyone worth a damn.
That bs four game win streak  
Ash : 12/18/2013 5:33 pm : link
against terrible competition doesn't look quite as nice now.
if you're going to post this....  
Torrag : 12/18/2013 5:34 pm : link
at least list who the Top 10 picks were in the mock. Useless.
Jimmy  
dontboobigblue : 12/18/2013 5:34 pm : link
They're affordable in free agency. CB, WR, DE are not.
Ash  
JonC : 12/18/2013 5:36 pm : link
Nope, I warned against it but optimism reigned.
interior OL are more affordable via UFA than CB, WR, DE, LT  
JonC : 12/18/2013 5:37 pm : link
and more easily plugged into a starting OL.
Typically  
JonC : 12/18/2013 5:43 pm : link
.
And given the paucity of  
Ash : 12/18/2013 5:45 pm : link
elite WR and CB talent in this draft, we might end up picking a guy who's got good potential but not the superstar potential we'd ideally be looking for drafting high. The best thing that could happen to this franchise is to lose the next couple of games and sneak back into the top 10.
Ash  
JonC : 12/18/2013 5:46 pm : link
I too am concerned about reaching, especially if we're slotted in 10-12 range.
The broader worry is that we've bought into a model  
Ash : 12/18/2013 5:51 pm : link
that emphasizes some positions much much more than others and in investing in those positions, we might overlook guys who're simply better than the positional players we draft. For instance, I happen to think CJ Mosley is a much better football player than Dennard or Gilbert. The latter has lockdown potential but has had an up and down career. But given our general priorities I think we'd draft the CB. I really do hope we can slice I to the top ten, have some teams fall in love with the QB's and have a shot at Watkins, who, in my view, is an actual superstar type talent.
Pick Anything that is good  
EliIsTheBaas : 12/18/2013 5:58 pm : link
Not really sure there's a wrong pick we can make. We need help everywhere. WR, CB, G, C, TE, LB, DE...

I'd go pure value there, but most likely WR, CB or DE, then go after the best interior lineman available in the 2nd, hopefully snag a TE in the 3rd who can contribute, then go after the best centre available in the 4th. The rest is a crapshoot. It's so difficult because with all the holes on the roster we're going to be walking away from players who could fill those holes, opting for another player to fill the other. The draft is going to be crazy this year without a doubt.
It's simple, you fix the OL in free agency....  
blue42 : 12/18/2013 6:24 pm : link
it's not simple....our best Ol is a high pick. Our center was a FA...he's done zero. The line needs new bodies.
A couple of thoughts....  
Reb8thVA : 12/18/2013 7:24 pm : link
The team clearly needs a jolt to its pass rush but you don't need to draft a DE for that. A LB that has speed to get to the QB would help. Being overly optimistic a Damontre Moore that performs like he did in college, a JPP that returns to form, and resign Tuck for a reasonable contract and its not a bad rotation. Add some speed to LB and you improve your rush.

As for Mack isnt he more of a 3-4 OLB? I am tired of failed conversion projects.

I don't think it is implausible the Giants take an OT if he is BPA. They could keep Beatty while the new guy learns the ropes and cut Beatty a year or two later when the cap hit would be less. Unlikely probably. Implausible I dont think so.

Given how critical the OL is, I expect they will address it before the draft.
RE: I agree with Curtis....  
buljos : 12/18/2013 7:56 pm : link
In comment 11403985 BillKo said:
Quote:
we need OL in the worst way.

If you wanted to point to one unit in 2013 that was consistently poor, it was our OL.

I expect a center and guard to be taken, and one relatively high......plus another to be signed via free agency.

It's an offensive league....your most invested player is a QB who while good, can't do it alone via mobility and "athletic plays".

I expect them to look offense early and often in this draft.


I hope you're right. Eli didn't throw 25 INTs because the Giants D sucked. They've got to go O-line so teams like the Panthers, Cards, etc who exploit double A gap pressure don't get an unencumbered straight shot on pocket passers like Eli. Jake Matthews will be gone, but If JR can pick up Auburn's solid Greg Robinson then maybe he can justify cutting $nee and saving a boat load of cap. And Pugh proves starting rookie 1st round linemen can be done.
When Mara Speaks  
Samiam : 12/18/2013 9:51 pm : link
Last yer Mara ssaid aomething to the effect that the Giants run defense needed major improvement. He also said.the offensive line needed some help. Well, the Giantsdid afdress very well the run defense throwing alot f resources and it worked. On the OLine, they drafted Pugh and Hermann and did not bring in any free agents and that was clearly not enough and, in my mind, the biggest problem. I expect Mara to speak to the OLine deficiencies when he speaks.
I never thought they'd take a RB in rd 1 but they did.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/18/2013 9:55 pm : link
Honestly, I just want a stud. I'll take a stud LB if Mosely is a stud. TE, WR, OL, DL, DB, you tell me their first pick is a stud, I'm fine with it.
I hope that  
spike : 12/18/2013 10:06 pm : link
RB WIlson 1st round pick didn't burn the Giants, but it probably will.
Dear Mook  
BigBlueCane : 12/19/2013 2:47 am : link
have you not been paying attention to how this regime drafts? They'll seek to address the OL in Free Agency, resign Beason and spend those picks on DBs. That's how they operate.
We will not  
TMS : 12/19/2013 10:05 am : link
draft Mosley if we plan to resign Beason. Mosley is a MLB and could be a very good one (all pro calibre). One or the other I am thinking not both on the same team in this defense.
RE: A few thoughts  
mrvax : 12/19/2013 10:24 am : link
In comment 11403769 njm said:
Quote:
1. Mosley can play outside, so he doesn't necessarily compete with Beason.

2. I doubt the Giants draft an OT, as Matthews will likely be gone and he's the only I think they see as justifying sitting/cutting Beatty. I think Pugh stays at RT.

3. They will not take an OG or OC in the 1st unless they trade down. Neither Richardson nor Yankey merit pick #11 and none of the OCs are 1st rd. material.


If Mosley is that good, he has to be considered if he can play well outside. Mosley can get to the QB which is something our LBs cannot do.

I usually disagree about going LB in round one but with our anemic pass rush and shit backers besides Beason, Mosley might make a huge difference right from game #1.
RE: So they're taking an ILB with Beason almost certainly on the roster  
PeterS : 12/19/2013 11:20 am : link
In comment 11403696 BillT said:
Quote:
Wow. Great pick.
Where is it carved in stone that Mosley can only play inside?
Mosley is a lot like Beason was when he came out  
jeff57 : 12/19/2013 11:31 am : link
Can play any of the LB positions. But Mosley's better in coverage which is why he will go higher than Beason.
RE: A couple of thoughts....  
dcable : 12/19/2013 5:01 pm : link
In comment 11404175 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
The team clearly needs a jolt to its pass rush but you don't need to draft a DE for that. A LB that has speed to get to the QB would help. Being overly optimistic a Damontre Moore that performs like he did in college, a JPP that returns to form, and resign Tuck for a reasonable contract and its not a bad rotation. Add some speed to LB and you improve your rush.

As for Mack isnt he more of a 3-4 OLB? I am tired of failed conversion projects.

I don't think it is implausible the Giants take an OT if he is BPA. They could keep Beatty while the new guy learns the ropes and cut Beatty a year or two later when the cap hit would be less. Unlikely probably. Implausible I dont think so.

Given how critical the OL is, I expect they will address it before the draft.


Mack can play either 3/4 or 4/3. I would pick him. We need anb impact player in the first round, so drafting for need (OL) so early could be a mistake, no interior OL are justified to be drafted in top 10
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