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Just a reminder of what Eli can do....

Bluenatic : 12/19/2013 1:05 pm
.... when he's given adequate protection.
Eli @ GB, 2011 (YouTube) - ( New Window )
who was that EXPLOSIVE son of a bitch  
Victor in CT : 12/19/2013 1:10 pm : link
wearing # 88?!! Holy shit!
He's also not making the throws this year when he has protection.  
gmen1234 : 12/19/2013 1:10 pm : link
His accuracy and arm strength have been off for the last season and a half. I hope he turns it around. The lack of protection is definitely a contributor but it looks like he is having more issues than that.
gmen1234  
Josh in the City : 12/19/2013 1:15 pm : link
it's b/c hes broken right now. No trust in his protection to block, his weapons to make plays or the system that everyone is on the same page and its affecting his play on the field.
He's not immune to being analyzed  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/19/2013 1:17 pm : link
On back to back weeks he had good protection on a couple deep throws and his arm didn't get the job done. The fact that he couldn't get the ball into the end zone on a hail mary is concerning.
I am very worried about Eli this weekend...  
MikeN in Ottawa : 12/19/2013 1:22 pm : link
to me, if he is going to get hurt, this is the game that will happen. Detroit has two huge guys inside and can rush the passer.

I pray to God if the pressure is that bad, they get him the hell out of there. The worst thing that could happen would be for Eli to get hurt and jeopardize the 2014 season.
Hammer  
Josh in the City : 12/19/2013 1:23 pm : link
good points. I recall there being concern about a tired/dead arm towards the end of last season. The fact that he's come up short on a few throws this year makes that all the more concerning. Definitely something to keep an eye on.
look at all the  
Howyadoin : 12/19/2013 1:24 pm : link
Mississippi's he has...those were the days
and some help from his receivers  
Simms11 : 12/19/2013 1:28 pm : link
.
Josh, stop making excuses  
HomerJones45 : 12/19/2013 1:30 pm : link
the passer in that video bears no resemblance to the passer we had on the field this season. The 2011 player was consistently and decisively putting passes on a line to the numbers. The 2013 player can't hit a bull in the ass with a handful of peas.
That just makes me sad.  
Andy in Halifax : 12/19/2013 1:31 pm : link
We're not looking at the same #10 and #88 this year. Hopefully next year is back to that form.
Regarding the hail mary....  
rocco8112 : 12/19/2013 1:32 pm : link
.....while it is some what concerning he did not read the endzone, a floater like that in the new meadowlands the wind could be a concern.
RE: Josh, stop making excuses  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 1:35 pm : link
In comment 11405349 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
the passer in that video bears no resemblance to the passer we had on the field this season. The 2011 player was consistently and decisively putting passes on a line to the numbers. The 2013 player can't hit a bull in the ass with a handful of peas.


And the 2013 WRs look like JV players compared to the 2011 WRs. But I forgot everything is Eli's fault.
This dep v. HJ45 act is tiresome  
Kyle : 12/19/2013 1:36 pm : link
ELI IS TERRIBLE IT'S HIS FAULT

THE WRs ARE TERRIBLE, IT'S THEIR FAULT.

NUH UH.

UH HUH.
I watched the Atlanta playoff game from above the end zone.  
Big Blue Blogger : 12/19/2013 1:37 pm : link
The middle thirty minutes were an absolute clinic of perfect QB decision-making and execution. Breathtakingly awesome.

The thing is, if you're going to judge a quarterback by his best game, you're talking about Kerry Collins in 41-0, or Phil Simms in SB XXI. Exhilarating, but not exactly the full story. Eli's defenders have a reasonable case: he was exceptional for most of 2011, and he had excellent stretches before that. But it's not as though "Bad Eli" is strictly a 2012-2013 creation. We met him in 2004, and he reared his ugly head many times over the next six years.
RE: This dep v. HJ45 act is tiresome  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 1:49 pm : link
In comment 11405358 Kyle said:
Quote:
ELI IS TERRIBLE IT'S HIS FAULT

THE WRs ARE TERRIBLE, IT'S THEIR FAULT.

NUH UH.

UH HUH.


What do the advance stats say. You know the ones that don't watch games and just use stats to base a players performance. That's what I care about and want info on. I need more info about matt Ryan being the 4rh best QB in football despite having a whopping what... 4 wins???? Haha
Another thing he can do  
Phil from WNY : 12/19/2013 1:56 pm : link
is read a defense like a book. Give him a better line, a couple of decent RB's, and he'll start picking defenses apart again with the running game.
Perhaps  
Ash : 12/19/2013 2:01 pm : link
giving him an offense where he doesn't have to play with such a low margin for error would probably help him too...
RE: RE: This dep v. HJ45 act is tiresome  
Kyle : 12/19/2013 2:09 pm : link
In comment 11405384 dep026 said:
Quote:
What do the advance stats say. You know the ones that don't watch games and just use stats to base a players performance. That's what I care about and want info on. I need more info about matt Ryan being the 4rh best QB in football despite having a whopping what... 4 wins???? Haha


dep, I'm going to be very polite.

Most of us overrate ourselves when it comes to talking sports. I sure as fuck do.

However, the gap between your perception of your own understanding of football, ability to intelligently discuss the NFL, the weight that your opinion carries, and your wittiness, and the reality of your abilities seems far larger than most.

I know this is an utter waste because you're the hardest sort of troll to eliminate -- the poster who trolls unintentionally -- but, for the love of not-stupid discourse, please stop ruining every discussion that even tangentially involves Eli Manning. It's best for the rest of us.

You may now call me arrogant or tell me you don't care about my opinion, etc etc.
That was not polite, much less very.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/19/2013 2:14 pm : link
.
Brett  
Phil from WNY : 12/19/2013 2:15 pm : link
It's all relative.
RE: That was not polite, much less very.  
Ash : 12/19/2013 2:15 pm : link
In comment 11405438 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


Shut up Brett.
I tried, Brett!  
Kyle : 12/19/2013 2:16 pm : link
I failed, but I tried!
More like...  
silverfox : 12/19/2013 2:18 pm : link
...what Eli WAS ONCE ABLE to do...I think even with protection now, he'd be hearing footsteps that aren't really there, ala David Carr.

He has thrown many passes this year with a clean pocket only to get intercepted. What good is protection if the receivers run the wrong routes..?..NO his problems are many fold.

RE: RE: RE: This dep v. HJ45 act is tiresome  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 2:21 pm : link
In comment 11405428 Kyle said:
Quote:
In comment 11405384 dep026 said:


Quote:


What do the advance stats say. You know the ones that don't watch games and just use stats to base a players performance. That's what I care about and want info on. I need more info about matt Ryan being the 4rh best QB in football despite having a whopping what... 4 wins???? Haha



dep, I'm going to be very polite.

Most of us overrate ourselves when it comes to talking sports. I sure as fuck do.

However, the gap between your perception of your own understanding of football, ability to intelligently discuss the NFL, the weight that your opinion carries, and your wittiness, and the reality of your abilities seems far larger than most.

I know this is an utter waste because you're the hardest sort of troll to eliminate -- the poster who trolls unintentionally -- but, for the love of not-stupid discourse, please stop ruining every discussion that even tangentially involves Eli Manning. It's best for the rest of us.

You may now call me arrogant or tell me you don't care about my opinion, etc etc.


Its amazing how a poster has no problem calling out posters as if his opinion trumps everyone else on the board... but as soon as someone mocks him for previous statements, then he gets all whiny and sensitive.

Mind you this particular poster has claimed Cruz as one of the best if not best WR in the league so any negative comment I make about him or the receivers he will be even that much more sensistove.

But in a forum where I posted one comment on a particular thread... I am sorry if I ruined it for you. But trust me... I'll never listen to what you tell me to do.
two things missing  
giantfanboy : 12/19/2013 2:23 pm : link
look at that Oline vs this year

Eli has all day and a large pocket to step into

the other thing
Ballard .. a Big TE that can make catches

we are missing that this year
and kyle  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 2:24 pm : link
I did try to say that with the utmost respect I have for you. So I hope you don't feel disrespected.
Well, characterizing my dislike of your trolling behavior  
Kyle : 12/19/2013 2:36 pm : link
as due to being whiny and butthurt and (laughably) wanting to defend Victor Cruz is one way to deflect.

Sorry all, my post wasn't going to actually achieve anything, and I damn well knew that (the last line), so there was no reason to make it.
we learned a lot though  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 2:38 pm : link
Happy holidays though kyle. Wishing the best to you and your family.
RE: two things missing  
Greg from LI : 12/19/2013 2:38 pm : link
In comment 11405456 giantfanboy said:
Quote:
look at that Oline vs this year


There really isn't a huge gap between the 2011 OL and the 2013 OL. 2011 was better, no doubt, but not by some wide margin. They both suck.
that game is the gold standard for this offense as far as im concerned  
mattlawson : 12/19/2013 2:39 pm : link
FB, TE, RB, WRs all got in on the action. it was a perfectly called game to stretch their defense out to the breaking point, and it totally worked... plus, our defense wanted to crush them.

perfect example of a game where our offense was NOT all about the deep ball but the passing game completely dominated their defense and eli picked them apart.

2012 as you remember was not that way. it was all about the deep ball. not enough check downs to the rb, fb, and te. over 40% less according to Big blue kickout live's Lance Medow. It' s a key part of the offense to be able to recognize when a play is busted and check it down quickly. eli did that in 2011 because of his 2010 high INT year. it was clear that cutting down on forcing throws was an issue all offseason. i predict the same effect this offseason.
title should say  
hitdog42 : 12/19/2013 2:51 pm : link
reminder of what he could do... and what we all hope he can do in the future. the arm strength looks poor, the location worse, the happy feet terrible, the hesitation disturbing... and all of this is warranted someone from the sh4t OL... but its still worrisome and is a trend not a fad. the WR not performing affects stats... i dont care about stats... i care about what i see... and what i see is the above... and its bottom 5 in the NFL for all QBs right now. and for 20mio a year i dont care what OL and WR you have... its unaccepptable.
If you manage money and make it for 3 years you get paid... and then you have 2 crap years in a row you get fired. high risk high reward business... with downside as well. it goes the same here... people are paying BIG money to watch these games... they deserve more then what they are getting...even after taking into account the sh$t oline. i enjoy watching 2011 giants highlights... i also like watching 2000 yankees highlights... and 2003 syracus highlights... but guess what... they are all highlights... and mean jack sh%t for next year.
that was depressing  
haper : 12/19/2013 3:02 pm : link
Eli is a shell of himself compared to that Green Bay game in 2011, so far away that I'm not sure he can ever get back to that level of football.

And while Eli was very accurate that game, did ppl notice the separation the receivers were getting; they were wide open on every completion? Only the Manningham touchdown was contested and that wasn't even very close.
Anybody who watches that video and says the 2011  
JCin332 : 12/19/2013 4:25 pm : link
OL was as bad as this years well I just don't know what to tell you..

The biggest difference is the interior..the Packers got virtually no pressure up the middle..

All this BS about his arm strength, accuracy is crap..

As stated ad nauseum you fix the OL you fix Eli Manning..
Eli had the statiscally worst running game in the league that year  
oipolloi : 12/19/2013 4:36 pm : link
But he had a tremendous pass blocking OL. Baas and Snee were dominating the Packers DL. If they were blocking like that this year, Eli would have been doing the same stuff he did in 2011.

You can even see Eli had the same problem he has now: the INT he threw came on a pass off his back foot. The only difference this year is that he is throwing off his back foot half the time because he is always about to be clobbered.
The 2011 OL was a tremendous pass blocking line? On what planet?  
Riggies : 12/19/2013 4:44 pm : link
The one where only an edited highlight reel of one game on YouTube existed?

The revisionist history to try and find an excuse for his terrible play this season is getting ridiculous and is actually now slighting what he accomplished and how he performed previously.
RE: The 2011 OL was a tremendous pass blocking line? On what planet?  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 4:45 pm : link
In comment 11405730 Riggies said:
Quote:
The one where only an edited highlight reel of one game on YouTube existed?

The revisionist history to try and find an excuse for his terrible play this season is getting ridiculous and is actually now slighting what he accomplished and how he performed previously.


Boothe-Baas-Snee in 2011 was worlds better than whatever crap we threw out there this year at G-C-G.

This 2013 interior does not provide a pocket to step into.
Boothe was solid in 2011, by any standard, but Snee was bad.  
Riggies : 12/19/2013 4:52 pm : link
He actually rebounded in 2012, when not saddled with Diehl next to him. And Baas wasn't anything special when he actually played either then.

This year's line is worse in pass pro, but not massively so. They were terrible that season too and not just at T. Revisioning history so that it wasn't to try and excuse this season's shit-fest undermines what Eli (and the WRs for that matter) accomplished then. It slights what was a season that actually was significantly more impressive than the stats paint it as, in black/white.
The packers rushed 3  
Neverend : 12/19/2013 4:55 pm : link
and when they blitzed they didn't get free a whole lot. but that video is edited, there were occasions when they got hits on eli

snee was poor in the 2011 regular season pass blocking wise. he was playing thru a torn labrum along with his other issues I cant even remember. McKenzie was awful. Diehl, ironically, was less worse at LT than he was at guard in 2011, but still wasn't great. Just watch the pass protection the week later against the 9ers. I think pats got two sacks in the superbowl on 3 man rushes. Obviously I'd take this offensive line over what the giants have now though
RE: Boothe was solid in 2011, by any standard, but Snee was bad.  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 4:57 pm : link
In comment 11405739 Riggies said:
Quote:
He actually rebounded in 2012, when not saddled with Diehl next to him. And Baas wasn't anything special when he actually played either then.

This year's line is worse in pass pro, but not massively so. They were terrible that season too and not just at T. Revisioning history so that it wasn't to try and excuse this season's shit-fest undermines what Eli (and the WRs for that matter) accomplished then. It slights what was a season that actually was significantly more impressive than the stats paint it as, in black/white.


Oh I am not saying they were world beaters. I agree with you there. But they look like world beaters compared to this crap this year. Whats funny is that in 2011 our weakness on the OL was the tackles, now this year its the interior.
That's our Eli alright  
CapeGman : 12/19/2013 4:58 pm : link
at about 46 seconds he underthrows a pass to Ballard that should have been picked but luckily was dropped by the defender. Then a couple minutes latter he throws a bad interception in the middle of the field. But given time and good receivers he can light it up and move the ball.
He will always throw a lot of interceptions even when we are winning.
Same guy...  
chilly460 : 12/19/2013 5:04 pm : link
Third play he stares down TD and should have been a pick. Fourth play he throws behind Cruz and makes him stop for the ball, if he hit him in stride would have been a big gain.
lol  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 5:05 pm : link
some people dont deserve to be Giants fans.
A valiant, though futile effort by the other Kyle....  
Kyle in NY : 12/19/2013 5:14 pm : link
but credit for trying
RE: Same guy...  
JCin332 : 12/19/2013 5:19 pm : link
In comment 11405760 chilly460 said:
Quote:
Third play he stares down TD and should have been a pick. Fourth play he throws behind Cruz and makes him stop for the ball, if he hit him in stride would have been a big gain.


Are you dense or maybe you don't watch the games..

The Giants were 4-0 that postseason and Eli threw 9 TD's and had 1..count 'em 1 interception..
Hate to say it,  
Doomster : 12/19/2013 5:50 pm : link
but if we could use Mr. Wizard's time machine, and transported the Eli of 15 weeks into the 2013 season, back in time to that Green Bay game, we lose....this is not the same Eli....
RE: RE: RE: This dep v. HJ45 act is tiresome  
GiantFanInTX : 12/19/2013 6:04 pm : link
In comment 11405428 Kyle said:
Quote:
In comment 11405384 dep026 said:


Quote:


What do the advance stats say. You know the ones that don't watch games and just use stats to base a players performance. That's what I care about and want info on. I need more info about matt Ryan being the 4rh best QB in football despite having a whopping what... 4 wins???? Haha



dep, I'm going to be very polite.

Most of us overrate ourselves when it comes to talking sports. I sure as fuck do.

However, the gap between your perception of your own understanding of football, ability to intelligently discuss the NFL, the weight that your opinion carries, and your wittiness, and the reality of your abilities seems far larger than most.

I know this is an utter waste because you're the hardest sort of troll to eliminate -- the poster who trolls unintentionally -- but, for the love of not-stupid discourse, please stop ruining every discussion that even tangentially involves Eli Manning. It's best for the rest of us.

You may now call me arrogant or tell me you don't care about my opinion, etc etc.


This right here is the best post of the year.
oh god  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 6:16 pm : link
Shits getting knee deep now.

If that's the post of the year... there is no football knowledge being discussed or more likely being understood....haha

Previous poster isn't hesitant to bash eli any moment he gets too. Maybe I'll be like the aforementioned Texan and just stay stupid shit that is repeated 500x during the week...

Dep  
GiantFanInTX : 12/19/2013 6:29 pm : link
you are easily the dumbest, most immature, idiotic poster on this board. You single handedly make visiting this site a shitty experience. You know nothing about football, and you consistently put yourself on display as biggest dip shit of the universe. I, along with others, were following this team and this game before you were a miserable little accident of a cum stain. Your questioning of people being fans and their football knowledge routine just shows you acting like the typical internet tough guy who never got enough attention as a 14 year old.

Do us all a favor and stick to the toys and comic books. Go play...

RE: Dep  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 6:39 pm : link
In comment 11405841 GiantFanInTX said:
Quote:
you are easily the dumbest, most immature, idiotic poster on this board. You single handedly make visiting this site a shitty experience. You know nothing about football, and you consistently put yourself on display as biggest dip shit of the universe. I, along with others, were following this team and this game before you were a miserable little accident of a cum stain. Your questioning of people being fans and their football knowledge routine just shows you acting like the typical internet tough guy who never got enough attention as a 14 year old.

Do us all a favor and stick to the toys and comic books. Go play...


Before you go flying insults around... do me two favors.

1) remind me of the poster who said if eli was decent this year... our wrs would be having "career years". You know Cruz having more than 1,500 yards and dbl digit TDs. Nicks having 1300 yards and a dozen tds. And then tell me how an idea like that isn't dumb/stupid.

2) click on your user name. And check the posts you have participated in. There have been 6. 3 game threads and 3 eli bashing threads. And in those game threads, show me the number of threads involving eli compared to those not involving eli. I guarantee you find your only purpose here is to bash and criticize eli. You bring nothing positive about anything.

So again, before you start flying insults around and declaring post of the year (solely because you dislike me because I point out your obvious trolling).... look in the mirror. Try reading some non eli threads and try to learn something. After that of you still don't like what I say.... I would keep your comments to yourself. Because in the end, I'll expose you like the troll that you are.
although tempting to pile on depz, I'll refrain....  
MetsAreBack : 12/19/2013 8:01 pm : link

I just want to point out that if Eli is "broken" as many above say - be it do to the o-line, the WRs, lack of TE, inconsistent run game, staying up late with his baby daughter, unmasked injury.... whatever.... he's well beyond the point where you needed to sit him down for the season.

I really dont give a rats ass about his consecutive game streak. He hasnt earned the right to start for this team in Week 16. I'd give Nassib some burn and see what we have, maybe generate some trade value or at least get him reps.
I'll join here  
SethFromAstoria : 12/19/2013 8:17 pm : link
for Dep's sake. He happens to be right about Eli Manning. Shit ass season for a great player. That doesn't excuse the embarrassment that are some of the posts in these threads. So many people with such small perspective and such short term memories about a player who should be backed up instead of piled on. Its sad to see. Shameful really. I even think the idea of benching him if he can play to be absurd and insulting. If they sit him because they are out of the game and he can get hurt, then fine.

The man deserves to start every game for this franchise until he decides to never step foot on the field by his own choice. At least in my view.

There's my unsolicited two cents. Dep I got your back even though we had our moments. You may defend the guy at all costs but you are right to do so. And I'm happy to face the wrath of the BBI rabble to agree with you when it comes to Eli fucking Manning.
One of the stranger things on BBI  
hitdog42 : 12/19/2013 8:34 pm : link
is how some confuse actual football observations and critique, with fan loyalty and appreciation of prior (and hopefully future) accomplishment. they are entirely separate. Self pats on the back for "sticking up for sucking" make me want to puke.

RE: One of the stranger things on BBI  
SethFromAstoria : 12/19/2013 8:43 pm : link
In comment 11405943 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
is how some confuse actual football observations and critique, with fan loyalty and appreciation of prior (and hopefully future) accomplishment. they are entirely separate. Self pats on the back for "sticking up for sucking" make me want to puke.



Fair enough. And when I read posts like your first one in this thread, it makes me laugh and cry at the same time...then puke. Quotes like "its unacceptable" or talking about what fans deserve because they pay big money to watch games. It just amazes me. You're entitled to your opinion. No one said otherwise. I just think you miss the point entirely. And thats cool too. Critique away.
RE: I'll join here  
MetsAreBack : 12/19/2013 9:08 pm : link
In comment 11405935 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
If they sit him because they are out of the game and he can get hurt, then fine.



Agree to disagree. His play has hurt the team this year, he's not playing with any confidence, and how does the rest of the team feel - ala a David Wilson - when if they make mistakes, their ass gets benched but the QB can turn the ball over 30 times and suffers no repurcussions ?

I do wonder if you feel/felt the same way about Brandon Jacobs, Justin Tuck, Kiwi and others. Jacobs and Tuck were every bit the part of two superbowl runs as Eli. Do you feel the same "outrage and insult" when discussion of their benching or release is uttered?

I'm not saying to cut Eli. I'm not saying I'm not a fan. I'm simply saying that he doesnt deserve to start Week 16 with the team where it is and with the season he is having. Getting benched shouldnt be insulting to anyone... it should do nothing other than to light a fire under his ass.

And we really should take a look at Nassib at some point in these final 2 games.
RE: although tempting to pile on depz, I'll refrain....  
JCin332 : 12/19/2013 9:12 pm : link
In comment 11405919 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:


I really dont give a rats ass about his consecutive game streak. He hasnt earned the right to start for this team in Week 16.


Holy crap you talk about a statement that makes you want to laugh cry and puke at the same time....
RE: RE: although tempting to pile on depz, I'll refrain....  
SethFromAstoria : 12/19/2013 9:37 pm : link
In comment 11405976 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 11405919 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:




I really dont give a rats ass about his consecutive game streak. He hasnt earned the right to start for this team in Week 16.



Holy crap you talk about a statement that makes you want to laugh cry and puke at the same time....


exactly. I mean "light a fire under his ass"? Come on man are you serious?

And do i see a difference between sitting Eli and Kiwi? Yeah. Benching one means we have no shot of competing. Benching the other means....less. Not sure what else to say.

I also don't think he's hurt the team this year. He's made awful plays in certain games. He also takes every snap and has a whole offense playing with him that has been equally or more incompetent. That's how this idiot sees it.
Thanks Seth  
dep026 : 12/19/2013 10:04 pm : link
Now I know my opinion here is not wanted by the majority of many here at BBI, and I do realize that I stick up for Eli more than just about anyone here. I just find it hysterical the people that get on me for sticking up for Eli, do not get on the same people who bash him in every single thread.

And again, people need to realize the difference between me sticking up for him or expressing opinions on other players who do not get shit on as much as Eli. There are many level headed posts that rip Eli deservedly so, however many people here, as i pointed out earlier, just come here to rip him. And to me, its sickening.

And as much as I disagree with MaB on many issues, his previous statement is just asinine to me. It doesnt make him a stupid poster, but his statement is outrageous. If you want to bench Eli for his play, then you need to bench Boothe, Beatty, Diehl, Nicks, Myers, and Cruz as well. NONE of them have been good this year, and yes that includes Victor Cruz. And to bench a guy, who has one amazing starting streak going because of poor play is something organizations like Dallas and Oakland do just to appease fans who do not know much about the game. Why should we play Nassib? He wasnt even good enough to overtake Painter as the backup yet. Benching Eli, when his OLine is putrid, RBs have been average at best, his WRs being just down right bad - what does that prove?

When dissecting Eli's play this year, I would love to get together with Anish and post something in the offseason, but there is no way anyone would have a rational discussion about it. It will either be he sucks or that everyone around him sucks. However, if you truly dissect his play - there's a lot of circumstances that never get touched upon.

Eli has been downright bad this year. I know, we know it, he knows it, and the Giants know it. But again.... why has he been bad this year? I'll give a few of my opinions.

1. He is rattled. I think that should be a consensus among people here. The amount of pressure and sacks he took EARLY in the year ahs clearly gotten to him to know where he is very inaccurate on short crossing patterns and his timing is off on come back and sideline routes. Eli has admitted to himself that he is going to throw to the guy he thinks should get open due to constant pressure. So, he knows he wont have time, which makes him rushing throws which leads to a lot of throws that are not right where they need to be.

2. I think he has a bit of a dead arm. People need to get off the whole not reaching the end zone on hail mary's. Eli has NEVER had the launch it down 60-70 yards field arm. Why? He doesnt throw a perfect spiral. A perfect spiral is imperative to throw it way down the field, and Eli has never thrown the tight, spiral other QBs do. You look at some of the guys who can really launch it downfield (Vick, Cunningham, Cutler, Brady) they throw a perfect spiral almost every throw. You know who else doesnt throw a perfect spiral and Ive never seen him launch it 70 yards downfield.... Peyton Manning. It has been clarified by both brothers that Eli actually has the stronger arm.

3. This next reason kind of goes with number 1, but I think many people underestimate it as a viewer. One of Eli's greatest if not best quality is his pocket presence. He is very astute and moves around it very well. If you watch at his career highlight tape that someone posted here thats a few hours long, you will constantly notice how effectively Eli moves around in the pocket. He can't do that this year. Why? The interior of our line does nto stone defenders on their rushes, they are always getting push backed. So while Eli may not get pressure up the middle, the majority of time he can't step up in the pocket. Thats why he is constantly rolling to his left or right for sacks. If you have noticed this year, we have used Pascoe alot as an inside blocker out of motion to help stone the rush up the middle. Anyone else notice a lot of rolling out by Eli lately in the last few games? Its because Diehl, Brewer, Boothe have been awful.

4. Our skill guys just have been not very good this year. You can put a lot of blame on Eli, and I could not dispute. However, the WRs have been downright disappointing. I wish someone could make a video of all 25 INTs and notice the following things:
- how many were thrown into double coverage
- how many came of a body part of a WR
- How many came where Eli threw it 1 place and the WR ran to a different place.
- how many were bad throws
- how many were bad decisions
- how many were to a WR who had a 1 on 1 with the defender.

Again, when you break down an INT, you need to see the whole picture. Going back to the Seattle game, if you do not include the hail mary.... all 4 INTs were all throws that the WR had a one on one with the defender. Lets forget the outcome, because we are going to just argue about where the throw needed to be. You have 4 INTs where our WR have no separation, but Eli decides that instead of taking a sack or throwing it away, he is going to put in a spot where the WR can make a play. Unfortunately, on some of the throws he was a 1/2 yard short, or a little behind. I tell people imagine if the defender isnt glued to the WR, could the WR make the catch? And I believe in all 4 of those situations, a WR would easily make the catch if they were separated from the defender. The problem was they werent. Now, I have been adamant about WRs making plays. Sometimes, WRs need to bail out their QBs..... and all great QBs have WRs that make plays for them. Whether its a 1 handed catch, a diving catch, a leaping catch, snaring it from the defender.... its becoming more and more common for WRs to make plays like that. Our WRs have not done that hardly at all this year (I will admit Nicks did it once vs. Washington where he took a ball of Hall). I dont think our WRs do a good job of getting separation, are not blazers, and have not made spectacular catches this year. Now granted, Eli has not been good this year and has hurt their production, I just laugh when people claim our WRs would have career years if Eli played better. People are finally starting to see that the WRs are also playing very badly.

5. Now getting back to Eli. Another one of his problems is in the indecisiveness. So lets go back to the art of passing. When you throw the ball, 4 things basically happen, 3 of them are bad: You either complete it, throw it incomplete, get sacked, or turn it over. So when Eli takes a sack, all you hear is why didnt he throw it away. When he throw it away, you hear why didnt he try and make a play. When he throws an INT, all you hear is why didnt he throw it away/take a sack. it's hysterical to read sometimes. The one game he had 3 intentional grounding penalties, trying to throw the ball away, and it makes national headlines. One game he takes 7 sacks, and it makes headlines. One game he throws 5 INTs, and it makes headlines. So right now, it may actually be a little mental cause he is probably trying to make the right decision, and unfortunately this year it has turned out to be the wrong one.

Now, here comes the fun part. You constantly read here that Eli need to play better. Ok.... what does he need to do then? All you hear is Eli has got to be better, Eli has to do more, Eli takes up so much of the payroll... he has to be better. Ok.... but how? Does he need to study more game film? Does he have to be with Gilbride and calling better audibles. Does he need to be more vocal in the offensive game plan. Again, people will say he needs to more accurate. Ok....thats a good one. But when has Eli been really accurate. He isnt Brees, Rodgers, or his brother in that sense. So, how is he going to be more accurate? Better mechanics! I agree. Stop throwing off his back foot? Well, that would help (but how many great/big throws has he made off his back foot?) I think we would all like a new QB coach, and that certainly may help.

Believe it or not, Eli didnt forget to how to play the position. He has not played well. But there are so many other circumstances than just his play that have contributed to his demise this year. Everyone knows we need an upgrade on the OLine, especially the interior. We need a new WR to replace Nicks. We need a legitimate TE. Now, whether we can replace those 4-5 positions is probably not likely, but an upgrade in 2-3 of them can make a world of difference.

He doesnt deserved to be bench. He doesnt deserved to be cut. He doesnt deserved to be traded. I am sure Eli will take an extension which will be very cap friendly, because when has Eli ever did something detrimental to his team in favor of him? We arent drafting his replacement and we havent drafted him already. He is taking his lumps, and hopefully he comes back next year with guys like Cruz, Randle, Brown, and other offensive players with a sense of urgency and better play. In the NFL, you can go from Penthouse to outhouse in 1 year (hahaha, Redskins). But you can quickly get back there with some new additions and better play from seasoned vets.

Eli will go down as probably one of our top 5 greatest players. And for fans to want to replace him because he had 1 shit year, when the whole offense has been shit, is not how the Giants do things. Nor should it be the way they should do it. Eli is one of the main reasons why we are in this mess, he deserves the chance to get us out of it.
Dep  
SethFromAstoria : 12/19/2013 10:25 pm : link
I pretty much agree with all you said aside from the part about him being able to throw it down the field or be an accurate passer. He obviously is no where near the most accurate passer but when he is on he can drop it in a bucket 30 yards away or fire a laser down the sideline after rolling out, to the corner of the endzone. We've all seen him do this more than once. His pass to Mario in the Super Bowl was as accurate and perfect a pass as any QB can throw.

Then there are passes like this...50 yards in the air off his back foot with D Ware about to crush him.

http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/Manning-throws-bomb-to-Nicks/07c49600-99c9-44a5-a711-75cb81b644a4

Just one example. There have been many.
I flatly disagree that people would criticise him for throwing the  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/19/2013 10:54 pm : link
ball away. If he ever did it without drawing an intentional grounding penalty, it would be fine. Live to play another down.

He forces the issue too often, even in good seasons, even with good protection. It's why he's always been a high-interception passer. That, and he's too forgiving when his WRs do screw up. Receivers will start performing better individually when they realize they're not gonna see any passes if they don't run the play right and fight for the ball.
This thread.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 12/19/2013 10:56 pm : link
Lulz
That play personifies...  
rocco8112 : 12/19/2013 11:01 pm : link
...Eli, that is a gunslinger throw. Top pass rusher coming up to crush you and he lets her rip and hits Nicks in stride. throwing off the back foot is part of being an NFL QB. I believe it was Dan Marino who said he would have any QB prospect throw off their back foot multiple times if he was scouting them to ensure they could do it. In the NFL it is rare to get a perfect pocket and ideal space to throw on a consistent basis.

Put me firmly in the camp of the Eli supporters. There is no doubt in my mind he will play at a high level again once there is a real team around him. You can not do shit without an O line and this years is brutal. Eli also played a majority of this season with no NFL caliber RB's. No other QB had to go out and play with the likes of Da Rel Scott, you think that also played a role in the fucked up protection? We signed Hillis and Jacobs off the scrap heap and they were starters for us and contributing.

This years Giants are simply a bad team, I think as fans some have trouble realizing that because it has been a decade since the Giants have been this bad.

Luckily with the NFL deigned as it is I have little doubt we will be competitive next year. Main reason for that in my mind is #10.


Also...  
rocco8112 : 12/19/2013 11:05 pm : link
...why is it so hard to believe that Eli will play better next year with a stronger team around him? It is more likely he just simply stopped being a good QB? To me that is more of a stretch.

Also, Eli still did this season what is his trademark and what in my mind is the measure of a real QB. That is leading a drive in a pressure situation in a big game for a score that either wins the game of puts the team in position to win. If the D does not shit the bed in the second Dallas game and the Giants pull it out who knows what may have happened.
Look at  
Giantophile : 12/19/2013 11:31 pm : link
all the time he had. Holy moly. I forgot what a pocket looked like.
RE: The 2011 OL was a tremendous pass blocking line? On what planet?  
Sonic Youth : 12/19/2013 11:37 pm : link
In comment 11405730 Riggies said:
Quote:
The one where only an edited highlight reel of one game on YouTube existed?

The revisionist history to try and find an excuse for his terrible play this season is getting ridiculous and is actually now slighting what he accomplished and how he performed previously.

I agree that saying the oline was a tremendous pass blocking line is a pretty serious hyperbole, but the guard play and interior protection was significantly better. I feel like Eli was able to move around in the pocket before it collapsed as long as it collapsed from the outside... or rather that he could deal with shitty guard play as long as he was getting protected up the middle.

This O-line is an abomination. The first half of the Carolina game is probably one of the lowest points in the last ten years, and one of the lowest point in general, since I've been old enough to remember being invested in Giants games. I've never seen the Giants get so dominated in the beginning of the season. It was almost worse than quitting. They were totally inept.
watching that play i posted  
SethFromAstoria : 12/20/2013 12:24 am : link
makes me have fond memories of a healthy and motivated Hakeem. Dude flies by the defense and outruns everyone to make that play. I'm not gonna lie, even after this shit season I'll still be upset if/when he leaves. Guy is a top notch receiver when healthy and in tune with the offense.

I also don't think the QB has had time to throw the ball down field like that in any game this season. Total shitshow on that o-line. Fucking terrible.
Dep...  
nyblue56 : 12/20/2013 1:45 am : link
Great post. As a fan that wanted bem in that draft, I knew I was wrong in Eli's rookie season during the game against Pitt. Watching so many posters who want to get rid of him makes me just shake my head. If the giants fix this ol, improve the and get some health, we can win again even if we use the sme schemes. I think the scheme should be changed nd mde easier for both the QB and the receivers. At least allow the new guys a chance to play without trying memorize 4 different responses for every play.
dep  
hitdog42 : 12/20/2013 6:40 am : link
One of your few good posts (backhand compliment :)) on eli this year. Well thought out.
I don't agree with all of it. You are still making excuses for awful throws against seattle. There is a difference between a 1 on 1 where the throw gives the wr a better shot based on ball placement and when it gives the defender a better shot.
Eli when on is an elite "throw them open" guy as he puts it where his guy has a shot and they made plays (stop fades type routes).
With regards to what eli can do better, it starts with huddle command. That is likely on he and gilbride. Our best drives are ALWAYS when we get to the line quicker. A bad ol can't snap the ball with 1 second left. We look disorganized. 10yrs in the offense that can't happen. He also needs his mechanics, that is lazy and sloppy. Those are the "unacceptable" plays. The team is not good enough to oversome them. Also calculating risk reward. A "gun slinger" takes high risks and sometimes throws picks (eli 2010). Eli this year is not a gun slinger. He's been calculating risk reward horribly. Too many picks where the upside for the giants is not there. This is also not a 2013 phenomena, it happened for the 2nd half of last season and helped keep us out of playoffs. The interior pass rush is the biggest fix needed I fully agree.
I'm not sure what it means to be an eli supporter. Only a few dopes here are anti eli... If you can't filter them out that's your problem. 99 percent of us love #10, and think/hope that new parts will fix him. But good lord he's been flat out bad and as much of the problem as anyone. That is just a fact, and because of that, criticism arrives. And its warranted. And just as no wr's have shown great flashes this year, neither has eli.
So guys with the ra ra I got ur back eli sh@t, its almost as bad as the dopes calling for his benching.
I think you're overplaying the benching angle just a bit  
MetsAreBack : 12/20/2013 9:27 am : link
there are only 2 games left in the season. If benching him would cause a media storm - fine, let him play, what do i care... season is over regardless.

Nobody said he wasnt the starting QB in 2014. Its just that with his confidence completely shot at this point, and this and his season already in the toilet - let him take the last two guys in off the sideline and see what the backups have... whether they deserve roster spots next year.

I do think however that it sends the wrong message to the team when one guy is allowed to make so many Goddamn mistakes and isnt held accountable - but most others on the team are.

Its amazing to me that someone says 'bench Eli for two games in late December in a lost season' --- and most people react like i just killed his little dog.
dep,  
kmed : 12/20/2013 9:35 am : link
great post. A bit glass half full, but great(not surprising as one of the best posters on bbi!).

What I don't get though is why you keep mentioning that Cruz has been bad. How has Cruz been bad? Nicks I get, but Cruz has done just fine when given the opportunity. He hasn't been given much of an opportunity and it's not hard for teams to focus on him when we don't have time to throw the ball deep and when our outside guys aren't demanding attention. He's been fine.
Cruz has been generally fine  
MetsAreBack : 12/20/2013 9:36 am : link
but man did he suck in the 2nd Dallas game and he's dropped a few TD throws this year.

Just a shitty year all the way around (except for our Run defense and Beason)
I'll def give you "fine",  
kmed : 12/20/2013 9:38 am : link
but "bad" seems a bit much.
RE: I'll def give you  
dep026 : 12/20/2013 9:50 am : link
In comment 11406360 kmed said:
Quote:
but "bad" seems a bit much.


Disappointing is more of the word I think of. Especially considering the expectations coming into the season. After 4 weeks, he was an absolute monster. But again in the last 10 games, he has averaged less than 50 yards per game. He has really struggled with teams focusing on him. And he has had a few dropsies and missed opportunities. The fumble against Dallas isnt so much concern, because those are kind of fluky plays. If the ball goes out of bounds, no one rememebrs it. It was just shitty it landed right into the defenders hands.

But I think everyone views him as a top 5-10 WR in the game, and I just dont think he showed it this year. Doesnt mean he wont rebound next year and be like the 2011-2012 Cruz. Just that I think he fell short of expectations.

But the rest of the core.... Nicks, Myers, Pascoe, Jerrigan, Murphy - suxity at its finest. At least Randle has shown at least glimpses of good.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/20/2013 9:51 am : link
MAB, we have no idea where Nassib is in his development and if he's ready. I'm concerned about messing him up behind this line. And putting a rookie out there seems to go against your stance of putting those who deserve it out there.

And I like the streak and hope it continues, so I'm biased.
Yeah  
dep026 : 12/20/2013 9:52 am : link
I think benching him for 2 games sends the wrong message as well. And I love the streak. When you see QBs get hurt week after week, and you know our QB will be right there each and every week..... I am all for him playing until he physically cant.

Its been a shit year. Let the people who participated in the shit finish it out and start over next year.
And that was a good post, dep.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/20/2013 9:55 am : link
I agree with a ton* of your posts on Eli - but the need to defend him every fucking post gets obnoxious (I don't think we need to point out how bad the rest of the team has been when critiquing Eli).

*a ton is only about 5% of your posts on him, to be fair... :)
hitdog  
Bill in UT : 12/20/2013 10:00 am : link
I like the way you see things. You've saved me from posting here
RE: RE: I'll def give you  
MetsAreBack : 12/20/2013 10:00 am : link
In comment 11406389 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 11406360 kmed said:


The fumble against Dallas isnt so much concern, because those are kind of fluky plays. If the ball goes out of bounds, no one rememebrs it.


Agreed, the fumble was a tough play and should have been whistled to begin with (payback for the Bradshaw OT play i guess)... but Cruz was miserable throughout that Dallas game on top of the fumble. Several drops.
RE: title should say  
NJGiantFan84 : 12/20/2013 10:18 am : link
In comment 11405528 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
reminder of what he could do... and what we all hope he can do in the future. the arm strength looks poor, the location worse, the happy feet terrible, the hesitation disturbing... and all of this is warranted someone from the sh4t OL... but its still worrisome and is a trend not a fad. the WR not performing affects stats... i dont care about stats... i care about what i see... and what i see is the above... and its bottom 5 in the NFL for all QBs right now. and for 20mio a year i dont care what OL and WR you have... its unaccepptable.
If you manage money and make it for 3 years you get paid... and then you have 2 crap years in a row you get fired. high risk high reward business... with downside as well. it goes the same here... people are paying BIG money to watch these games... they deserve more then what they are getting...even after taking into account the sh$t oline. i enjoy watching 2011 giants highlights... i also like watching 2000 yankees highlights... and 2003 syracus highlights... but guess what... they are all highlights... and mean jack sh%t for next year.


Eli did not have a crap year last year. He was 1 of the few reasons we even got to 9 wins. He has had a lot of INT's in past years, but never more INT's than TD's. This is his first really poor year in a long time. And if you surround him with a capable OL, I have little doubt he will return to form.
I can't believe the morons  
gmenatlarge : 12/21/2013 9:23 pm : link
who claim the 2011 o-line couldn't pass block, Eli had so much time to throw even JOE buck could see it!!!!!!

fix the o-line fix eli!!!
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 12/22/2013 7:20 am : link
I just have a hard time believing that Eli Manning has just lost it. I just don't buy that.

The OL is horrific, the WRs-Nicks especially-haven't been too hot, & we've had pretty much no running game to speak of.
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