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Tuck: Lots of teams will be looking swipe Linval Joseph

Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/19/2013 7:49 pm
Tuck: Lots of teams will be looking swipe Linval Joseph - ( New Window )
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Cant pay everyone  
Blue Blood : 12/19/2013 11:13 pm : link
sometimes you lose good players to FA...
Let him go  
WideRight : 12/20/2013 5:43 am : link
Core guy on a subpar DL is not worth FA money, and that draft pick is valuable.
stretch234 : 12/20/2013 5:50 am : link
He has played 51 games for the Giants and has 9 sacks and 160 tackles. Cofield in his first 63 games produced 7.5 sacks and 30 less tackles

If people don't think Joseph is getting a big deal they are not paying attention. He is a 325lb DT who is very good against the run and needs to be double teamed who does not miss games
BigBlueCane : 12/20/2013 5:59 am : link
I wont pay big money to a DT  
Tuckrule : 12/20/2013 6:02 am : link
who cant get after the qb. Some of that is the fault of the DE, cough, cough, Kiwi. However, just like cofield, we should let him walk. It was the right move to let big CO go and that worked out well for us.

Also, we have players who we potentially need to resign like JPP if she shows vast improvemnt next year which he should. My friends brother is best friends with kevin Boothe who 2 years ago told me personally that William Beatty is soft but hell get a big contract because he has good feet and athletic ability, sure enough it happened. He also said that they will let linval walk because they view him at the same value as cofield. If anyone overpays. Cofield got 6 years with I beleive 11 million guaranteed. Thats high for a DT.
to be fair  
Tuckrule : 12/20/2013 6:05 am : link
I view linval as a better player overall. comparing cofield stats with linval is a joke. Cofield played with a different D cordinator and a different pair of book ends and a different tackle, fred robbins(who i love) next to him who was an absolute beast.
I think Joseph is going  
nyynyg : 12/20/2013 7:35 am : link
To get a big deal and I think we should be the one to give it to him. I just don't think it is going to be 8 mil per year. Way too much.

I think Joseph is an important signing for us. We already have enough holes on the DL that we need to fill. At least we know Joseph is solid. I have no idea what we have in JPP anymore.

You sign Joseph and Jenkins and then they and Hankins are your rotation and let the others fill it out. If we can get a good DT in the draft, even better. Seems like a weak DE draft so not sure what we do at end.
Cannot allow another DT goto Washington  
Giants2012 : 12/20/2013 7:51 am : link
The team has just another hole if Joseph walks. He's a rock
Expensive decision on Linval who has been  
Jimmy Googs : 12/20/2013 7:57 am : link
good. I think franchise tag is $8+ million so that doesn't help other than probably sets our ceiling on him at around $5-6 million (all-in).

And please don't mention that we also have Kuhn in future rotation if Linval leaves. That is like saying we have Louis Murphy at WR if Nicks leaves.

Tough to pay a DT 8 mil, but I would rather keep  
Victor in CT : 12/20/2013 8:12 am : link
Linval than Kiwi and Tuck at this point. He's a young vet, solid player and if Hankins is what we hope they could have a very formidable interior with Jenkins rotating in as well.
"Kuhn waiting in the wings"  
Greg from LI : 12/20/2013 8:25 am : link
Give him a 6-7 million  
Ash : 12/20/2013 8:32 am : link
a year deal. He's improved, is an excellent run stuffer, and has many years of production ahead of him, barring injury. We let Cofield go, and although he's not a superstar, we did miss his consistent play, especially with Canty's injuries. Build up the middle. Try and keep Beason, have Hill play center field, and put Hankins and Joseph down the middle plugging the run game.
Should get Vince Wilfork  
Simms11 : 12/20/2013 8:44 am : link
money - about 4 to 5 mil per. That shouldn't break the bank, especially with Eli restructuring and Nicks probably going elsewhere. Need to maintain the DT corps as is. They were the only shining spot on this Defense, other than the play of Rolle and Beason.
Dancing Blue Bear  
Doomster : 12/20/2013 8:50 am : link
I couldn't believe that Terrell Suggs would be listed at 5M...

Checked him out: his cap hit is 13M(11M in salary) this year and 12M(all salary) next....
Wilfork is getting  
Doomster : 12/20/2013 8:53 am : link
7M this year, and 8M next year.....not counting his signing bonus.....
Can play in 4-3 and nose in a 3-4  
jeff57 : 12/20/2013 8:55 am : link
valuable guy. Like to keep him if at all possible.
area junc : 12/20/2013 9:14 am : link
is better than Joseph. He's gone, simple roster dynamics.
RE: Hankins  
Tuckrule : 12/20/2013 9:19 am : link
In comment 11406300 area junc said:
is better than Joseph. He's gone, simple roster dynamics.

Based on what exactly? His draft slot ?
The way  
area junc : 12/20/2013 9:20 am : link
he plays football
Not from what I've seen  
jeff57 : 12/20/2013 9:24 am : link
Not yet anyway.
Could be the most underrated player on the Giants  
PSIMMS 22-25-268 : 12/20/2013 9:27 am : link
Watch what happens to the defense if and when he leaves.
RE: The way  
Canton : 12/20/2013 9:28 am : link
In comment 11406322 area junc said:
he plays football

The most ground breaking, insightful rebuttal, I've ever read on here.
Hankins is better than Joseph???  
PSIMMS 22-25-268 : 12/20/2013 9:28 am : link
area - C'mon man!!!
SamdaGiantsFan : 12/20/2013 9:40 am : link
one of the few keepers on this team. Gotta resign him
If we do lose Joseph  
Dirt1 : 12/20/2013 9:42 am : link
I'd like to see us draft Calvin Barnett from Ok. St.
2012 Big 12 Defensive Newcomer of the Year
2012 First-Team All-Big 12, Coaches
2012 Second-Team All-Big 12, Associated Press

RE: The way  
Victor in CT : 12/20/2013 9:43 am : link
In comment 11406322 area junc said:
he plays football

and you're basing that on the 50 odd snaps that Hankins has had this year? That's a reach my friend.

I hope Hankins is what we all hope he can be, but we have no idea at this point because he hasn't played enough to make that determination.
I think he's a solid guy.  
Bill in UT : 12/20/2013 9:45 am : link
I haven't noticed him getting routinely doubleteamed like Wilfork. You have to keep his signing in the context of the big picture. I don't remember the precise number, but we're looking at $25M in cap space give or take $5M. There aren't that many guys you can throw $5M or more a pop at before it's all gone. And we've got to upgrade a lot of players on this team. That's Reese's job to prioritize in advance where the money is going to go, and so far I haven't seen him being real good at that.
RE: $8M a year for Joseph?  
Arcanum : 12/20/2013 10:11 am : link
In comment 11405983 Bill in UT said:
Don't let the door hit you in the ass, bro

Wheres this  
area junc : 12/20/2013 10:19 am : link
magical place where u get 2 wait n see what happens first? Its about projecting

It is not as simple as linjo = good player so we have 2 sign him

If u are a GM and you need 3 starting OL and a starting CB and you already have Jon Hankins u dont have the luxury of signing a 2nd NT to big $.
The price  
NJGiantFan84 : 12/20/2013 10:33 am : link
needs to be reasonable but the guy plays in every game. Durable players are not always easily found. He needs to be a priority though.
They draft Hankins to hedge their position  
JonC : 12/20/2013 10:35 am : link
I'd offer him a deal in the 6/36 range and be prepared to be outbid for his services, thus the hedge.

Hankins is going to be a very good DT, he plays bigger than his size, and his big college experience already shows up in his play. It's not hard to believe the brass might project him to be the better pro player.
I wouldn't go too far north of $6M per  
JonC : 12/20/2013 10:36 am : link
but would agree LJ is going to be a better DT than Cofield.
I'd like to keep him  
Mark from Jersey : 12/20/2013 10:48 am : link
but cannot overspend on the position.
The team needs to come up with  
mrvax : 12/20/2013 11:01 am : link
a number and stick to it. How much of that cap can you give this good player? What would likely happen if he was to leave?

Tough call here. I'm guessing the number should be between 4-5M per year. Skyward of that and you have to bite the bullet and move on.
Everyone talks about how strong we are at DT  
Bill in UT : 12/20/2013 12:04 pm : link
after Reese's makeover last offseason. Other than Joseph, our DTs are Jenkins ($1.1M), Patterson and Rogers (under $1M) Kuhn (about half a mil) and Hankins. Plus appearances by Kiwi and Tuck. Obviously we can be ok at that position without breaking the bank on one guy.
Rogers is probably done  
jeff57 : 12/20/2013 12:13 pm : link
Jenkins, Hankins and Patterson could form a nice trio, but there'd be little room for error.
Bill in UT : 12/20/2013 12:16 pm : link
yeah, but if Reese has the ability to pick up good DTs on the cheap, maybe there's a couple more out there this year. It's not like Joseph is an elite guy.
What is the point of continually drafting DTs with high picks...  
SB : 12/20/2013 12:22 pm : link
...and then letting them walk so that we again have to draft DTs with high picks?
It may not be the case with Hankins  
Bill in UT : 12/20/2013 12:28 pm : link
but even Joseph supporters here seem to admit that he's a one dimensional DT, good against the run. Maybe we should stop using high draft choices on one-dimensional DTs. There seem to be a lot of those guys around to plug in when you lose one. and maybe you can get them in Rd. 5 instead of Rd. 2
RE: What is the point of continually drafting DTs with high picks...  
Jimmy Googs : 12/20/2013 12:36 pm : link
In comment 11406730 SB said:
...and then letting them walk so that we again have to draft DTs with high picks?

Welcome to the NFL. Using low picks to choose bad DTs or spending high dollars in free agency on somebody else's good DTs seems pointless as well.
the salary cap forces certain strategies  
JonC : 12/20/2013 12:37 pm : link
you literally can't pay to keep everyone, so teams utilize the draft to fill spots cheaply when they can.
does anyone watch teams other than the Giants?  
area junc : 12/20/2013 12:40 pm : link
i do not mean to smash linjo, i like the guy, but he's not exactly a great player

freak in the weight room ? absolutely. but imo cofield was a far better player when he was here and the comment above about linjo becoming better than him is off-base. cofield was a stud here, and has continued for the skins

hankins is more instinctful and looks better than linjo at respective stages. also seems to have some pass rush. he has a Pro Bowl ceiling IMO

Sorry .. Not giving more than  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 12/20/2013 12:41 pm : link
5 mil a year to a DT that comes off the field on passing downs.. He's solid but he's no Suh or Atkins
To add on to what Kevin  
Semipro Lineman : 12/20/2013 1:05 pm : link
just posted. I'm sure the Giants can do a five to six year deal with about a 1/2 to a 2/3 guarantee to Joseph if they felt that was his market value. But like others have said, let's see. Maybe he is going to command top dollar but my guess he will end up being in the top 15 salary wise but not the top five listed above
TMS : 12/20/2013 2:07 pm : link
is close to being an all pro DT who is never injured. People who think that is easy to find in the draft are very wrong. Who was the last one we had? We paid Canty a fortune and he was injured more than half the time, and never as good as LJ is right now. Smart teams do not let their top proven DTs go . We shouldn't either. Hankins has not proven anything yet and we need them both anyway.
stretch234 : 12/20/2013 4:08 pm : link
His pass rush showed up in year 5 in a contract year - outside of that, not so much.

Sacks are not the ultimate measure, but Joseph has more sacks, more QB hits, more tackles and more tackles for loss than Cofield did in his first 4 years - and he has played 11 less games
Orr DT play sucked in 2012.  
old timer : 12/20/2013 6:58 pm : link
Improved dramatically when Cullen showed up in 2013.

What does that tell you?
Joseph will get a deal in the ball park of 30 mil for 4 years and  
BlueLou : 12/20/2013 7:22 pm : link
if he remains healthy (he's played reasonably well through injuries before and hasn't missed much time to date) he will be well worth that to whoever signs him.

I hope it's the Giants. I think it will be the Giants.
Meant 30 mil  
BlueLou : 12/20/2013 7:23 pm : link
for 5 years...
Old timer  
stretch234 : 12/21/2013 10:37 am : link
Our DT play sucked in 2012 because Canty missed half the year, Bernard missed a lot of time and Kuhn was getting major minutes. Linjo was worn out by the second half of the year because he was getting doubled every snap.

Young, healthy DT who can withstand double teams are going to get paid
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