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Tuck & Kiwi-what would you do?

Headhunter : 12/23/2013 11:02 am
try to resign both? Let them both walk? sign one? if so which one?
spike : 12/23/2013 11:06 am : link
Is still under contract for next season
I don't know  
Antdog23 : 12/23/2013 11:06 am : link
I'm starting to wonder if there's more than just bad play going on. No matter who was at end this year they couldn't get to the QB. I mean JPP, Tuck, Jenkins, Kiwi... all are bad players?
Kiwi is under contract  
BillT : 12/23/2013 11:07 am : link
Tuck could get a contract like Jenkins got. That would be ok if they are the #3 and #4 DEs. We have to hope Moore is a starter next year.
My bad  
Headhunter : 12/23/2013 11:07 am : link
I thought Kiwi was a FA after the season.
I'd like to keep  
BigBluePrestige : 12/23/2013 11:09 am : link
Jenkins Linval and Patterson for one more year. I think we need to move on from Tuck unless he becomes a backup making vet min.
Kiwi's had an off year  
bc4life : 12/23/2013 11:10 am : link
I wonder if him dropping weight similar to what Strahan did near the end of his career would help his pass rush abilities
I have a feeling Kuhn  
spike : 12/23/2013 11:10 am : link
Will take Pattersons spoton the depth chart
BBI's roster has Kiwi signed through 2016.  
Klaatu : 12/23/2013 11:11 am : link
I don't know about Tuck. I love the guy, and we know it's not all about money with him, but if you believe that JPP will come back better than ever, and you think that Moore is starter material, where does that leave Tuck?
BillT : 12/23/2013 11:12 am : link
Joseph should be the #1 FA priority and Jenkins is under contract. Patterson would be great at vet min again.
Let Tuck walk(unless he wanted to come back for the min)  
kmed : 12/23/2013 11:12 am : link
Sign a starting caliber DE(or draft) to play on the other side of JPP and let Kiwi rotate or backup.
Love 'em both  
old man : 12/23/2013 11:12 am : link
but A Thank You Thread might be in order.

Give them both a chance to be veteran backups somewhere there might be 1 more ring immediately for them. All they have left anyway is 1 more year.
BillT : 12/23/2013 11:13 am : link
Tuck as the #3 DE
Klaatu : 12/23/2013 11:15 am : link
If that's a role he can accept, then I'd look to re-sign him for a one or two-year deal.
BillT : 12/23/2013 11:16 am : link
Starting quality DEs cost a fortune. Can't see that with the other needs and FAs like Joseph needing to be signed.
keep both  
mikecf2 : 12/23/2013 11:16 am : link
They strive under spags :)
I think Kiwi playing 95 %of his reps if not more  
Headhunter : 12/23/2013 11:16 am : link
this season at DE made him more effective as the season progressed. He could have a nice season or two left as a DE
BillT : 12/23/2013 11:17 am : link
He wants to stay and he's not getting a big dollar deal from anyone. The Jenkins deal makes sense for both I think.
Klaatu : 12/23/2013 11:20 am : link
Jenkins will probably still start, though. As I said before, if Tuck can accept the role of a backup, I'd definitely bring him back. You could do a hell of a lot worse than having Justin Tuck as your #3 DE.
Keep Tuck  
BBurns : 12/23/2013 11:22 am : link
He retires in blue Kiwi makes too much for inconsistent play .
RE: kmed  
kmed : 12/23/2013 11:24 am : link
In comment 11411924 BillT said:
Starting quality DEs cost a fortune. Can't see that with the other needs and FAs like Joseph needing to be signed.

Bill, I see plenty of opportunities to create money to fix both lines. I feel like that is priority 1A and 1B. Part of 1B is getting a starting caliber end to play along with JPP. Whether thats in rd 1 of the draft or through FA.
Kiwi stay?  
Marty866b : 12/23/2013 11:28 am : link
He found one offensive tackle in the 15 games played that he can handle. Otherwise, he has played Claude Raines the entire season. If he's on the team next season I hope he isn't starting.
Kiwi might have to stay  
kmed : 12/23/2013 11:30 am : link
because of his contract, but def too little too late. This was his first impact game.
mrvax : 12/23/2013 11:36 am : link
has to be kept another year. The cap hit is crazy high.
I noticed that Kiwi doesn't look very big at all for a DE. He probably should not lose weight.

I hope he can somehow improve. Him, JPP and Moore will likely be our main 3 DE's. I hope Tuck comes back cheap.
Keep them  
chiefmps : 12/23/2013 12:01 pm : link
A team can never have enough good defensive ends. Of course everything come down to money.
Marty866b : 12/23/2013 12:06 pm : link
Kiwi is a good defensive end. Um,OK. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I am in the vast minority here  
Matt M. : 12/23/2013 12:10 pm : link
But, I don't have a problem with Kiwi at DE. I felt last year, when he actually played DE he was one of our best defensive players. The problem is, there were very few snaps as a true DL. I am fine with him in the rotation.

I also wouldn't mind re-signing Tuck...but only to a very cheap deal.
I'm a Kiwanuka fan  
Milton : 12/23/2013 12:15 pm : link
He's actually one of my favorite Giants. He's a high character guy, intelligent and articulate (even if he did let his emotions get the best of him a couple of times this year).
Every player cut or not resigned,  
Reb8thVA : 12/23/2013 12:15 pm : link
adds another hole to our already long list that need to be filled. I would like to see Tuck resigned for a contract that is reasonable to the tam and him. Maybe 2 years for $6 million with maybe a team option for a third. Even if we go in next year with JPP and Moore at DE, you still need your rotational DEs. I still think that Tuck has a role to play on this team and he also has veratility being able to play inside. I think bot the team and Tuck both have an interest in making a deal happen and I expect that they will.

I expect that there will be a parting of the ways with Kiwanuka. I think he is one of the players we can cut to get some cap space. I've liked Kiwanuka, but he's not the future, he's part of the past and between him and Tuck, I have to go with Tuck.
And I'm a Tuck fan, too...  
Milton : 12/23/2013 12:16 pm : link
Not as intelligent or articulate as Kiwi, but when he's healthy (which is far too infrequent), he's the whole package.
RE: Kiwi stay?  
LauderdaleMatty : 12/23/2013 12:19 pm : link
In comment 11411987 Marty866b said:
He found one offensive tackle in the 15 games played that he can handle. Otherwise, he has played Claude Raines the entire season. If he's on the team next season I hope he isn't starting.

Marty. Love the Claude Raines reference. Not sure too many here know it though. Lol dating ourselves.
Somehow I thought  
mrvax : 12/23/2013 12:26 pm : link
cutting Kiwi would result in a big amount of dead money. Just checked to find it won't cost a dime to cut him. His 2014 cap hit is $7.2M. Wow. No way in hell do I accept that.
Marty866b : 12/23/2013 12:40 pm : link
Yeah, after I posted it I realized that most here have no idea what I'm saying. Nice to have another "old fart" around here to understand what I meant. BTW, I live in Weston. Where are you?
I've always had a pretty high opinion of Kiwanuka.  
Reese's Pieces : 12/23/2013 12:49 pm : link
But if I look at his numbers I'm not sure why. This was actually one of his best seasons. His six sacks were the most since 2008 when he had his career high eight. His two forced fumbles tied with several other seasons and are the most he's ever had in a season.

I guess it's up to the coaching staff to decide whether he's been a better player than those stats show.
Milton : 12/23/2013 12:50 pm : link
His salary is $4.5M, that's all that matters. If his cap hit is $7.2M, that's $2.7M in cap hit that will happen regardless of whether they keep him or not (since it's the last year on his current deal).

So the Giants have three choices:
1) Keep him at his current salary of $4.5M with a $7.2M cap hit.
2) Cut him and take the $2.7M cap hit as dead money.
3) Give him a multi-year contract extension that converts his $4.5M salary into salary and bonus his salary and stretches out the amortization of the unamortized portion of the bonus money he received in the past.

A simple example of option 3, might be a two year extension with a $3M bonus and $1.5M in 2014 salary (and salaries of $5M in 2015 and $6M in 2016). In such a deal, Kiwanuka's 2014 compensation would remain at $4.5M , but his 2014 cap hit would be $3.4M instead of $7.2M.
Tuck has 9 sacks  
oipolloi : 12/23/2013 12:51 pm : link
He is going to get offers from other teams.

Not huge offers but offers in the range of what Osi got from the Falcons
Please excuse the typo...  
Milton : 12/23/2013 12:54 pm : link
"$4.5M salary into salary and bonus his salary and stretches out the amortization" should've read as "$4.5M salary into salary and bonus and stretches out the amortization"
Milton : 12/23/2013 12:55 pm : link
Teams are going to be concerned about Tuck's ability to stay healthy. And rightfully so.
All about performance - but in which half of the season?  
Jupiter : 12/23/2013 1:04 pm : link
This is a tough question, partly because you need to consider the other DEs.

Neither Tuck nor Kiwi performed well for most of the season. Both have started to come on strong. Why? Did Tuck have lingering injuries that have magically disappeared? Doubtful, since that doesn't happen in the NFL unless you are inactive for several weeks. I have no explanation for his apparently improved play because he isn't the type of player who would only play hard for a new contract. I think he still has something to contribute (probably the best run-stopping DE on the Giants) so sign him to a reasonable 2-year deal if he can't get a better deal elsewhere.

Kiwi is another issue entirely. His improved play may be attributed to the fact that he has not moved back and forth and is finally getting used to the DE position again. There is no other obvious explanation. Since he has another year to go on his contract, no decision needs to be made. Let him compete for a spot in the rotation.
Cut Kiwi  
trueblueinpw : 12/23/2013 1:06 pm : link
Sign Tuck. He's a great Giant and worth having in the locker room and on the field for the occasional big plays. He can play from anywhere on the D line.

I don't think Kiwi is much of a playmaker. I wouldn't have signed him to the deal he has now. I didn't see him make much of a difference this season. Let's move on from him and see what Demonster can do and maybe a draft pick or FA.
Re-sign Tuck  
PeterS : 12/23/2013 1:20 pm : link
and keep Kiwanuka unless there is anyone else better available/affordable to take there place. Both players had dominant performances late this season.
Let them both walk.  
AnishPatel : 12/23/2013 1:22 pm : link
Granted Kiwi is under contract, but hypothetically, I would start new and draft, sign or bring in UFA, in to compete.
stretch234 : 12/23/2013 1:25 pm : link
5 DE have more tackles for loss than him. 8 DE have more sacks than him. 6 DE have more Qb hits than him. 7 DE have more tackles than him.

People really think those numbers are only going to warrant a vet minimum contract
Marty and Matty  
JimmyD : 12/23/2013 1:36 pm : link
I loved the Claude Raines reference too...I don't consider myself an old fart at 50ish but yeah not too many people may know the movie and the veiled reference to the Invisible Man...and could an invisible man be veiled? getting back to Kiwi...I'm a fan of his but he's not been very good. I know we all measure DE's by sacks but I can care less about that . I think its more important to be stout against the run and he has not which I find curious since he played LB the last 2 years.
Kiwi has been extremely average this year  
Simms11 : 12/23/2013 1:48 pm : link
and not a factor at DE at all. I'm not sure what happened to his play, as well. He started his career playing fairly well?! I would probably cut him if we have an alternative, otherwise, he remains as a back up rotational guy. Tuck I would bring back as a rotational guy only. The biggest question is can JPP regain his form from 2 years ago? He hasn't been the same player since his 16.5 sack season. Additionally, can Moore show some pass rush ability? Haven't seen anything to get excited about from him yet either. This is a huge part of the Giants Defense and must also be improved.
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