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Terrell thomas coming back?

spike : 12/23/2013 11:09 am
He is a FA this offseason. Is he coming back and how much will he cost?

Starter material?
I think  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/23/2013 11:10 am : link
Mundy has been stealing a lot of his snaps in the last two games.
Thats unfortunate  
spike : 12/23/2013 11:11 am : link
Is TT playing CB or S?

I dont want to see Mundy next season
.  
arcarsenal : 12/23/2013 11:12 am : link
I think it was evident in the SD game that he was pretty worn out.

I don't think it means he's done and after an offseason of resting he should still be good next year but he can't be playing a high % of snaps on a weekly basis. He'll lose effectiveness
spike  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/23/2013 11:13 am : link
Mundy has kicked ass the last two games.

Thomas obviously is a CB, but he and Thomas kind of play the same role in Fewell's defense. I think they would like to bring one or both back but probably for vet minimums.
only sure thing cbs are  
bc4life : 12/23/2013 11:17 am : link
Prince, Hosley, and McBride
I  
jtfuoco : 12/23/2013 11:19 am : link
Think you would bring him back next year if you can he played well at times and it was good just see him get through the season most guys don't come all the way back from a ACL until year 2. Mundy I am not sure about but he has been playing good these past few weeks
Mundy is pretty damn Physical  
BBurns : 12/23/2013 11:20 am : link
I like him think he sticks .
Mundy  
bc4life : 12/23/2013 11:25 am : link
Rolle, Hill - you are developing a core of hard-hitters in your secondary
It's  
AcidTest : 12/23/2013 11:28 am : link
going to be hard to cut Ross, Webster, and TT all in the same year. One probably comes back for at least 2014. TT is the best bet right now, but I still think we'll take a CB high.
RE: It's  
Optimus-NY : 12/23/2013 11:34 am : link
In comment 11411989 AcidTest said:
Quote:
going to be hard to cut Ross, Webster, and TT all in the same year. One probably comes back for at least 2014. TT is the best bet right now, but I still think we'll take a CB high.



Ross and T2 are UFAs. Webster has a voidable year next year, so he's also going to be a FA with some leftover Dead Money ($1 M). None of them should be back next year. Time to restock the CB pantry. Prince, Hosley, and Charles James are the only solid bets to bet back next year.
Webster  
bc4life : 12/23/2013 11:36 am : link
is gone.
Mundy and S. Brown are UFAs too  
Optimus-NY : 12/23/2013 11:37 am : link
I'd re-sign one, or maybe both of them depending on what else is out there in FA. I'd cut Rolle ($7.25 M in Cap Savings).
RE: Mundy and S. Brown are UFAs too  
AcidTest : 12/23/2013 11:56 am : link
In comment 11412020 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
I'd re-sign one, or maybe both of them depending on what else is out there in FA. I'd cut Rolle ($7.25 M in Cap Savings).


Good points. Maybe all three should be gone, one way or another. I would bring back Mundy and Brown. Rolle is a harder call, but as you note, the cap savings are substantial. Whatever happens, I do think there is going to be a very big veteran purge. We saw the first wave last offseason, and now it will continue, including some coaches this time.
Eric  
Marty866b : 12/23/2013 11:59 am : link
Mundy did miss a bunch of tackles also. I hope we try to upgrade this position with better players then the ones mentioned. Too bad about TT. He just didn't look like he could really run anymore.
Mundy  
NJGiantFan84 : 12/23/2013 12:00 pm : link
is fantastic against the run. His pass coverage can be suspect, but he has been very good the last few games. I have been pleasantly surprised.

Everyone keeps saying how bad the Giants are, but I think it should be said how bad the Giants offense is. The defense needs some patch work, but we have a nice core to build around. The D is not far off from being very good and is the reason this team may get 7 wins.

But yes, I expect Thomas to be back. I don't think he'll have that many suitors and the Giants should get him back for Vet min. or right around there.
thomas was one of  
japanhead : 12/23/2013 12:17 pm : link
my favorite players before he tore his knee up and i'm thrilled to see he made it through a full season (well, almost). but he has clearly lost a step. i've got no problem bringing him back for depth, but he should be 4th or 5th on the depth chart.
TT is/was a great story this season  
NYGmen58 : 12/23/2013 12:21 pm : link
but should not be brought back. He's still an awesome tackler and is terrific when the ball/play is in front of him.

The fact is he cannot play man-to-man coverage or on the outside.

The Giants are best suited to add another veteran in free agency and a CB through the draft to go with Prince, Hosley and James. McBride could be brought back too inexpensively to add depth.
Can't really bring him back for depth  
NYGmen58 : 12/23/2013 12:23 pm : link
Not ideal to have a guy taking up a roster spot who is so limited with what he can do.

He is not "starter material" by any stretch, and can't even start in a pinch because he can't play on the outside.
Eric  
Matt M. : 12/23/2013 12:26 pm : link
I agree about Mundy. I have liked seeing more of the 3 S looks the last couple of weeks. If they can extend Rolle to a cap friendly deal, I like our 3 S. However, is our 4th (and possibly 5th) S currently in the organization? Can it be Taylor? Could Thomas be converted to S?
one-year deal for 2.5 million  
oipolloi : 12/23/2013 12:30 pm : link
if he gets more somewhere else, take the comp pick
The reason I say cut Rolle is not just because of the cap savings  
Optimus-NY : 12/23/2013 12:30 pm : link
that he would provide in 2014 ($7.25 M). It's because of his age and the direction of the team going forward. If you keep Rolle, then you risk his age catching up to him regardless of whether you extend him or let his contract expire after next year. In the NFL, you have to know when to cut bait with players from a cap standpoint in order to be successful. If you keep Rolle, he'll be 32 next year.

If you are getting started on a youth movement, then you don't build around players like Rolle. They can serve as complimentary pieces to help supplement a young core, but they have very low cap numbers. Rolle has a cap number of $9.25 M in 2014, which is third on the team after Eli and Snee, both of whom will be dealt with this off-season too (Eli with an extension and Snee by retiring/being cut). This is just simple forward thinking with regard to managing the roster going forward. It's chess, not checkers.
Damn  
Matt M. : 12/23/2013 12:31 pm : link
I forgot about Brown. I'm not sure I'd re-sign him. He was very opportunistic with the INTs last year. But, most of those were balls thrown right at him. His overall play did not match his INT total.
With respect to Thomas, as jt said, second year back from  
Reese's Pieces : 12/23/2013 12:36 pm : link
knee surgery there is usually great improvement. Of course with Thomas coming off his third surgery, who knows?

But I'm pretty certain that the Giants will give TT a chance to win a job in the preseason. They show loyalty (sometimes too much loyalty) to a player like Thomas who were once a team star and who has worked so hard to get back on the field. Good Giants are not treated as just a jersey with a number on the back.

I would be very disappointed if the Giants did not keep Rolle. People like Papa and Banks have called him our best defensive player this year. He's thirty one and has played in 63 of his 64 games as a Giant. Not counting his rookie season, he played in 63 of 64 games as a Cardinal.

You don't get better by letting your best players go and replacing them with mediocrities. IMHO, unless Rolle is very unreasonable you find a way to keep him.
Thomas has lost too many steps  
HomerJones45 : 12/23/2013 12:37 pm : link
and was exploited by every decent qb we played.

Unfortunate. Great story, good guy, good player before being robbed of speed and quickness from multiple knee surgeries.
Yes, please cut Rolle  
LT4LIFE : 12/23/2013 12:38 pm : link
he's the best player on this defense and god knows we don't need any of those around next year. Passion, dedication and an instinct to be in on every single defensive play are easily draft-able traits. - BBI
TT deserves to stay  
dpinzow : 12/23/2013 12:40 pm : link
See how well he responds next year. He probably wasn't in good football condition after missing so much time, which would explain why he was worn out late in the season. He put his life into recuperating to return to the Giants and they should pay him back with a chance to be on the team next year, it's only right and that's how our organization operates
Mundy has been a very good addition  
rasbutant : 12/23/2013 12:41 pm : link
He's a value player. Valuable in his role in the defense, and special team, and doesn't cost a lot.
On the other hand, safety is a real strong spot  
dpinzow : 12/23/2013 12:43 pm : link
Rolle, Will Hill and Stevie Brown, provided he is OK after surgery, are all really good...and you MUST keep Rolle as a defensive leader. Initially he was a poor signing but he's done everything you could ask a man to do in years 2, 3, and 4 of his deal, even playing out of position at times
I'd bring Thomas back  
rasbutant : 12/23/2013 12:43 pm : link
but not at starter money. He is role player and still an injury risk. He still has a lot to prove. But I'd give him decent money, I'm not talking min wage, just not starter money.
RE: Yes, please cut Rolle  
Optimus-NY : 12/23/2013 12:48 pm : link
In comment 11412208 LT4LIFE said:
Quote:
he's the best player on this defense and god knows we don't need any of those around next year. Passion, dedication and an instinct to be in on every single defensive play are easily draft-able traits. - BBI


The goal of managing a roster in the NFL is to get players who are younger and cheaper, not older and more expensive cap-wise.
If that's the way to manage a roster then Eli  
Reese's Pieces : 12/23/2013 1:07 pm : link
should be the first to go.
they  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/23/2013 1:07 pm : link
may not re-sign Mundy because of Brown and Taylor.
Eric  
Matt M. : 12/23/2013 1:22 pm : link
I think I'd rather have Mundy thand re-signing Brown off an injury. I think it comes down to choosing one of those two. Taylor, going into his 2nd year, isn't going anywhere.
RE: RE: Yes, please cut Rolle  
NJGiantFan84 : 12/23/2013 1:35 pm : link
In comment 11412238 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 11412208 LT4LIFE said:


Quote:


he's the best player on this defense and god knows we don't need any of those around next year. Passion, dedication and an instinct to be in on every single defensive play are easily draft-able traits. - BBI



The goal of managing a roster in the NFL is to get players who are younger and cheaper, not older and more expensive cap-wise.


Isn't the goal to put the best players on the field possible? Yes, younger and cheaper is beneficial when possible. But when it's all said and done, you have to win and you win by keeping the best players you can, especially leaders.
Better question is do we keep Rolle?  
Simms11 : 12/23/2013 1:58 pm : link
If so, I think we have to restructure his contract. I think he is clearly a leader and very good safety. He has been the glue in the secondary this year. TT has had glimpses of success, but not enough for me to say bring him back.
it's not worth retaining rolle  
japanhead : 12/23/2013 2:50 pm : link
at his salary next year, which is something north of 9 million. you can upgrade three positions with that money, and we all know these giants need to upgrade at a lot of spots. he's played out of his head this year, no doubt. but even with his elevated play the giants are still lucky to have won more than three games. also, he still takes bad angles too often.
japanhead  
Matt M. : 12/23/2013 3:52 pm : link
Or, you can restructure his deal and keep, perhaps your best defensive player.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/23/2013 3:56 pm : link
I think cutting Rolle would be a mistake.
process  
area junc : 12/23/2013 3:57 pm : link
this was a restoration year for T2. managed, no wednesdays, cant even play sometimes and looked poor vs. the chargers after a long flight

cant give up on him now. let him escape injury free, take a much needed break and build on a considerable 1st step. there are a number of defensive guys - t2, beason, jpp, markus kuhn - who project as improved players next year. a real patch work group for perry, for the 3rd straight year
matt m, etc.  
japanhead : 12/23/2013 4:13 pm : link
i believe rolle has publicly stated he is not open to restructuring his deal, or to take a pay cut. of course that could be posturing, and i'm not saying the giants shouldn't sniff around to see. but assuming he means it, then i don't think it's a wise use of cap dollars to spend just short of 10 million on a safety.
Bye TT  
Glover : 12/23/2013 4:29 pm : link
...
I think restructure  
Semipro Lineman : 12/23/2013 4:36 pm : link
is the wrong word. A better term would be extention. It seems unlikely that the Giants will assume such a large cap hit for a player going into his last year if the team is reloading. If they think they are capable of a quick turnaround then an extention makes sense. Otherwise....
Cutting Rolls would be insane  
Go Terps : 12/23/2013 4:39 pm : link
He's an excellent player. Money spent on quality is money well spent.

That the possibility would even be discussed is another in the millions of examples why the salary cap is short sighted and bad for football.
Autocorrect  
Go Terps : 12/23/2013 4:41 pm : link
Should read Rolle.
while i agree  
japanhead : 12/23/2013 4:54 pm : link
with terps' sentiment, rolle is on the wrong side of 30 and will cost in the neighborhood of 10 million dollars next year. can't see him staying, given eli's 20 million dollar cap hit and all the glaring holes on the roster, on both sides of the ball. will hill's emergence should take the sting off a bit, assuming he manages to keep his nose (and lungs) clean, and gets his baby mama drama in check. if rolle stays with the team at his current salary i'll be very surprised, though if anyone of the defensive veterans deserve it it's him..
Optimus  
GMANinDC : 12/23/2013 5:02 pm : link
Keep getting younger and cheaper then you'll wind up like the jaguars..Why would you want to cut the best guy in your defense..

I know you're into this cap detailed thing, but sometimes you have to look up from the books and look at what you have on the field. Cutting Rolle is going to weaken the team. You just don't make those decisions like that..
RE: Optimus  
Optimus-NY : 12/23/2013 6:17 pm : link
In comment 11412799 GMANinDC said:
Quote:
Keep getting younger and cheaper then you'll wind up like the jaguars..Why would you want to cut the best guy in your defense..

I know you're into this cap detailed thing, but sometimes you have to look up from the books and look at what you have on the field. Cutting Rolle is going to weaken the team. You just don't make those decisions like that..



GMan - That's a silly argument, and believe it or not I do watch the games and know who's a good player and who isn't. This "Cap thing" is what the league is based on now, in case you haven't noticed, and oftentimes tough decisions have to be made. Some of you can't see two steps past your own feet with the things you say. The reality is this: Rolle will be going into the last year of his contract, and will be 32 next December. You're trying to fix this team going into the long-term. You re-tool with younger players...not like the Jaguars as you ridiculously point out, but with the goal of becoming like Seattle. As I said above, it's chess, not checkers.

Try looking BEYOND one year. The Giants are trying to build with guys who not only can play, but can play at a reasonable price. Bottom line is this: a safety who has the 3rd highest cap hit on your team who's over 30 is a luxury. This isn't Ronnie Lott we're talking about here, or even Earl Thomas. His impact does not warrant his cap number, and neither does his age. At this point he's a luxury for this club going into 2014 and beyond. It's VERY simple to figure out.

P.S. Bill Belichick cut a star safety on his team at the end of the 2003 preseason (Lawyer Milloy). What did they do that year? They won the Super Bowl. Rolle is not the force some of you pretend that he is.
I don't think the Giants will just look at Rolle as a name and cap #  
arcarsenal : 12/23/2013 6:24 pm : link
He was just given a "C" this year and I think he's pretty clearly viewed as a leader and a vital cog both on and off the field. I don't see them just cutting ties with him while he's playing probably the best ball he has here.

They'll probably see if they can extend him a little and lighten the load on next years cap hit.

This isn't just some guy who holds sentimental value here. He's an important player.
Optimus  
GMANinDC : 12/24/2013 12:18 pm : link
No, it's not a silly argument and just because the player is 32 does not mean he can't be impactful..yes, you can infuse your team with talent like Seattle, but it took them how many years to accumulate that talent..

Secondly, aside from the name-calling (childish, if you ask me), you do make good points about making your team better for the future but this team is not in the rebuilding stage. There are still many parts of the puzzle that can be fixed quite really with the right personnel.

We have a QB who is 33 and not getting any longer. Now is not the team to try to "get younger (i.e. inexperienced), and by the time thry are ready, the QB is 3 5 and it' now time to shop for a new one..

Or, are you saying they should cut Rolle, Kiwi, Tuck and whoever else and start the rebuilding phase now?

The are other options to extend or redo Rolle's contract am i correct and is that not just feasible?..or are you comfortable going into the season with Hill and his issues, Brown coming off of surgery and Mundy?..
BTW  
GMANinDC : 12/24/2013 12:33 pm : link
It is nt like he didn't win a SB with the Pats..he was there for the 2000 win over the Rams..

And just because it worked once, doen't mean it's the status quo..Hell, didn't Belichek cut Seymour and what has that done for him?..
Rolle  
fkap : 12/24/2013 6:51 pm : link
is ripe for a restructure/extension. He is, and has been all along, a player you want on your team. Before cutting his ass to save some bucks, you better be damn sure you can replace his production. He can't walk on water, but those are big shoes to fill. The only way I send him on his way is if there's a good FA available at a lower cost. No one currently on the team is anywhere near replacing him.

He plays at a high level and shows no sign of slowing down. don't give him a contract that expects him to play at his current level four years down the road. If he has half a brain, and I think he plays the contract game quite well, he'll go for a deal that will give him the longest/maximum earnings potential. That deal will let us keep his production, while reducing his cap hit.
Webster and Ross should be gone  
Bill in UT : 12/24/2013 7:28 pm : link
Hosley should be the primary slot guy. I'm assuming we draft ha starting LCB round one or two. Assume S Brown is healthy and signed. If Rolled is gone, TT may have a chance to stay. Do the Giants like James? Do they get a good looking UDFA CB? So many variables
T2 said with so much rehab, not much time to work on "football drills"  
GloryDayz : 12/24/2013 7:31 pm : link
In an interview (Giants.com, couple of weeks ago maybe), he said he had to put in so much time/effort on rehab there wasnt really an opportunity to do the usual off season training/football drills. He said that with the 2 injuries, this would be his first off season in 3 years where he can focus on skills and football drills.

The guy is a fighter, and definitely doesnt lack the motivation. My guess Giants offer him another 1 year, show me type deal an see what he can do in his 2nd year back from injury, which is usually key for knee injuries. I dont see other teams outbidding the Giants, so I think there's a good chance he's back, specially with Webster and Ross likely gone.
RE: it's not worth retaining rolle  
GloryDayz : 12/24/2013 7:39 pm : link
In comment 11412550 japanhead said:
Quote:
at his salary next year, which is something north of 9 million. you can upgrade three positions with that money, and we all know these giants need to upgrade at a lot of spots. he's played out of his head this year, no doubt. but even with his elevated play the giants are still lucky to have won more than three games. also, he still takes bad angles too often.


This may be one of JR's toughest personnel decisions, but I wouldnt be surprised if they do cut Rolle, and I wouldnt be too upset if they did either.

No knock on Rolle, but with all the Giants needs, his salary/cap hit, and the nature of position, you have to at least seriously question if he's, hate to say the word, "worth" it. Keep in mind, even with Rolle playing very well, the defense wasnt all that good until Beason was brought in. Again, nothing to do with Rolle, its just the impact of the position.
Wonder if they'll have interest in CB Brandon Carr if cut by Dallas  
Torn Tendon : 12/25/2013 1:05 am : link
Rumor is that Carr might get cut due to his performance and high cap cost.

Seems to me the Cowboys drafted and signed CB's that were best at man coverage. But the Tampa Two they've adopted works best with CB's that excel at zone coverage. Could be Carr's skills haven't declined but more he's a square peg being forced into a round hole.

Do man and press CB's work better for the Giants? Seems like they'd force Qb's to hold onto the ball and wait for the WR to beat the man coverage. Giving the Dline more time to get to the QB.
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