I don't understand a lot of the comments people have on this site. I read a post from someone saying not to take Tuck back at minimum salary, we need to be younger and similar arguements.
Sports today are won by the GM who can build a team that will outplay its contracts. A 10 sack DE with a 2 million dollar deal is more valuable than a 12 sack DE with a 5 million dollar deal. The trick is to know a players value and pay less. There is no set age that wins a super bowl and teams dont repeat bc they overpay to keep players bc all super bowl winners contracts go up.
The get younger arguement is garbage. Young players arent free agents bc they are under contract. The ones who arent got cut. You get one pick per round plus any compensatory picks. You cant just fill a roster with young talent. If you go into the draft with a need for five opening day starters your season is already over. Even if you scout exceptionally well and hit on those picks you didnt draft depth and youll fall apart.
Rookies dont pan out. Sinorice Moss was a 2nd rd wr. He had a dozen nfl catches. Wilson cant hold a football. If you fill a team with question marks your gonna lose. If you build a competitive team with question marks behind them hitting on a few can put you over the top
Its ridiculous to me to write off a player before you even see his price tag
Seattle
Carolina
49ers
eagles
colts
chiefs
all are not paying an insanely large amount for the QB and will make the playoffs.
The above is one ingredient to a poor season, another is that a big portion of the younger talent isn't stepping up effectively.
The above is one ingredient to a poor season, another is that a big portion of the younger talent isn't stepping up effectively.
What Jon said...Didn't we go into the season with Eli as a leading rusher? If that doesn't say we were young, I don't know what does.
expire.
Young = inexperience..
[quote] hitting talent in the rounds 3-range (iirc), in addition to 1-2, highlighting where NYG is failing in the mid rounds. [/quote
That's correct. Since Ross has come aboard our drafts have gone hill. We have hit on first round picks, but after that it's been brutal.
We can't afford to keep guys that aren't contributing.
Last year the Chiefs won how many games? This year they are one of the best in the AFC. They did not turn over their roster. So, one would conclude that the coach is the reason why they got good quickly.
Seattle
Carolina
49ers
eagles
colts
chiefs
all are not paying an insanely large amount for the QB and will make the playoffs.
The goal is to win championships not make the playoffs..get back to me when any of these QB's have won 2 SB's..
They also had 6 (iirc) Pro Bowlers last year..
1. We have not drafted well despite what anyone says.
2. We do not seem to (for the most part) allow our young players to develop on game day. We rely on the practice field for that and to me that is a huge mistake. It is rare to see a rookie step in and be allowed to provide a significant contribution. What happened in 2007 was almost an accident. Then, IF you give a young player an opportunity and he screws up, Coughlin puts him in the penalty box for a long time. These players think more about NOT making a mistake vs trying to make a spectacular play. What I would have done with Wilson after his first fumble against Dallas would have been to put him right back out there. He is not going to improve by just THINKING ABOUT IT on the bench.
3. Player development in general - I think this is now a serious problem. We supposedly have a good O line coach but the entire line is struggling? Even at other positions we see players decline vs improve so often. Why are they not getting better?
4. Strength and conditioning. Is it me or do we seem like we are in general slower and weaker man to man vs our opponents? We win no battles on the O line. We lost most battles on the D line. Our corners get dragged down field. On punt returns, we cannot hold the gunners even with two guys on them, on and on and on...
5. Depth - our misses in the draft obviously means that when a starter goes down then there is a significant drop off. It also means that our special teams will suck unless we play starters on specials.
6. Coaching philosophy - IMO this coaching staff builds a plan and forces the players to run plays that are designed. I may be wrong but to me it does not seem like we design our plan/plays based upon the personnel that we have and take advantage or exploit a particular talent that may exist on the roster. Example...if Wilson is good in open spaces then why were we not doing everything to get him the ball in open spaces?
How many times have we seen this team run it 3x at the goal line, even when we can't run for shit???
Tom needs to freshen things up in 2014 to be successful. The first 2 & 10 inside hand-off, red zone fade, or Eli int, is going to bring a whirl-wind of shit.
How many times have we seen this team run it 3x at the goal line, even when we can't run for shit???
Tom needs to freshen things up in 2014 to be successful. The first 2 & 10 inside hand-off, red zone fade, or Eli int, is going to bring a whirl-wind of shit.
I agree, I still can't believe when we ran it 3 straight times at the goal line. You have a franchise QB throw it! And during a game where he as Ints, you call a fucking hail mary. I mean come on now! Add one more INT to his stat column. And the time in a different game you can add a TD to his column, you run it 3X times.
Things better change this off season.
Brandon Jacobs played as a rookie. Bradshaw played as a rookie. DAVID WILSON played as a rookie.
Nicks played his rookie season. So did Chris Snee. So did Steve Smith. So did Kevin Boss. Aaron Ross? Yep he started most of his rookie season...Webster tried to play and sucked but he played as a rookie too. KEnny Phillips played a lot as a rookie. So did Terrel Thomas. Jay Alford played as a rookie. JPP played his rookie season. Kiwi played his rookie year and he played a lot. Justin Pugh played in every game his rookie year. Even Ruben Randle got some burn as his rookie year progressed and everyone knows he was a raw player that couldn't run a route if you drew it up in the sand for him to see.
Yea, David Wilson had problems getting on the field his rookie season. Know why? Because he sucked. And he sucked this year too. Mario Manningham wasn't ready to play his rookie year. NEither was Linval Joseph but he too played down the stretch during his rookie campaign.
Coughlin playes rookies. HE doesn't play rookies that aren't ready to play.
The same coach who staked his reputation on a rookie QB while Kurt Warner, a super bowl MVP had the team sitting at 5-4 and alive for a playoff berth? That coach won't play young talent or new guys because he's too concerned with proving his system works?
In 2008, that 3rd down draw went for 20 yards. In 2010 it worked. In the 2011-12 postseason that draw play worked.
Nothing worked this season. Pass on first down and Eli was taking a sack or throwing the ball away. 2nd and long...run for 2. 3rd and long...incomplete. Try running on 3rd and long...and they got 5 yards and punted.
The 1990 Giants ran the ball all day long when everyone knew it was coming. And it worked. Execution trumps play calling.
Fix the OL. Bring in a legit RB to compliment Brown and coach the hell out of Eli and this offense and the play calling will look a lot better in 2014.
Nicks can't walk? Cart him out there as a "decoy"!
TC has not coached well the past 2 seasons. He needs to freshen things up a bit.
I hear this constant BS that his teams are "disciplined" and he has "changed his ways" in the past. If he's a HOF coach, he'll adapt to the times.
2. The Kurt Warner thing... yes we were 5-4 BUT if you recall we lost the entire defense to injury by that 9th game. IMO, despite our current record, there was no way we could advance into and through the playoffs based upon what was left on our roster. To me, the Giants were smart and said heck with it lets at least get Eli some experience under his belt so that his first game as a pro is not the first game of the season next year.
The same coach who staked his reputation on a rookie QB while Kurt Warner, a super bowl MVP had the team sitting at 5-4 and alive for a playoff berth? That coach won't play young talent or new guys because he's too concerned with proving his system works?
One question for you Gilbride and Coughlin have said many times that they do not have the personnel on offense to run their scheme. Have they changed their scheme to fit their current personnel?
I would argue no, other than a few changes but they always go back to their system which I think is no longer effective and other teams have figured out.
This is why I do not think he will make any major or minor changes to his staff or personnel. He is stubborn which is an asset and a fault.
There seems to be a disconnect with what we do on O and D and the players we acquire, mostly after rds 1 and 2. And I've been touting the younger, faster players, and anti-NYFG strengthening-system mantra for several years.
If you look at our needs:
3 interior OLs, at least 2 faster LBs, 1-2 taller DBs, 1-2 WRs that instill fear in the backs with their speed or ability to get off the line quickly AND can block,and any other position needs I am omitting, that is a lot of missing.
I will discount some of the needs due to the vast number of injuries that forced us to lose talented players(mostly 26) such as KPhillips, TT(for the most part), SSmith, KBoss,JAlford,ABradshaw,that would have been contributing well here, if significantly healthy, for the last 3 years.
But there has been a lot of 'missing' in replacing those young guys.
If you look at the roster, how many veterans will contribute well in '14, especially when most of BBIers have been saying those same guys have lost it all year?
When Jimmy Johnson was building the 'Boys, in the first 3 years there, they brought in almost 1,000 players via draft, FA, and open tryouts, until he found the group he wanted(and most of that # in the first 2 years).The CBA may not allow for that kind of search today, but the concept is there.
And given the cap casualties that started in '13 and have to happen after this Sunday anyway, the current roster is getting blown up anyway, or else '14 may end up being a '13 re-do, record-wise.
Generally they haven't been as good as the guys that they are being asked to replace, and that's why they are sitting while vets like Diehl play.
When the newcomers have been good enough to play regularly, they have played. But most of them haven't been good enough, and that relates back to the drafting problem as much as to any other factors like getting used to the speed and strength requirements of the pro game or being able to provide quality pass protection or whatever.
This is JR's fault. The buck stops here at his desk.
I don't care who the coach is... if you don't have quality players you can't win.
JR's love for the D-line is quite apparent with all the first and second day picks he's spent on them, but he's forgotten the # 1 rule of football "You Win this Game in the trenches. On offense, we have been dominated by nearly every team we played.
We have some very good Coaches but even good coaches can't make sub par talented players into spun gold.
This falls squarely on the shoulders of our GM JR. His failure to secure the talent by either Draft or FA has resulted in the season of broken dreams.
Now TC and his OC and DC are not blameless either but before I fire them I want to know who are we going to get to replace them?
We all know a change is needed the real questions is who can facilitate this change. Do you know?
The last super bowl win was two seasons ago. Reese's and Coughlin's jobs are not to savor the past but to navigate to the future. Leave wallowing in nostaligia to the fans.
The last super bowl win was two seasons ago. Reese's and Coughlin's jobs are not to savor the past but to navigate to the future. Leave wallowing in nostaligia to the fans.
exactly, folks need to get over their emotional attachments. I'll bet those PSL owners are digging keeping underperformers around.
Quote:
As u said is to under pay for talent. especially at the QB position. example the giants pay 20 million for Eli. Seattle pays less than 1 million for Wilson. that right there is an extra 20 million to spend on the rest of your team.
Seattle
Carolina
49ers
eagles
colts
chiefs
all are not paying an insanely large amount for the QB and will make the playoffs.
The goal is to win championships not make the playoffs..get back to me when any of these QB's have won 2 SB's..
No these QB haven't won 2 SB. that's not the point. and when the giants won 2 SB they were not paying 20 million for eli. these teams pay for winning the SB after it happens and they become handcuffed by injuries, aging vets and poor drafting. the margin of error is much less.
giants are paying th price for winning 2 SB. just like super bowl winners in the past few years are. as well as Atlanta.
Im grateful they won them obviously. its just a fact that these teams getting great production from underpaid QB have a much easier time building a winner, as did the giants.
Your 100% right. TC, KG have extreme egos and will never change