I know you are pushing to draft a LT and right now I am in the same boat. You have also mentioned this as a result of Will Beatty. Since Beatty was just signed, what are the Giants real options with him at this point? Sounds like they lose a lot of space of he is cut in the next two years, no?
What do you recommend they do with Beatty? Thanks in advance.
They would actually lose cap money if they cut him in the standard fashion next year; however, if they use make him a June 1st cut in the 2015 off-season, then that would be the earliest that they would be able to get rid of him and gain cap space. In such a scenario, the Giants would gain $3,050,000 in cap room in 2015, spreading out Dead money on the books in two year: $2,500,000 in 2014, & $5,000,000 in 2015.
The scenario outlined above would be the first and earliest exit strategy away from Beatty, and would only occur if Beatty is an absolute waste of space and turns into the Left Tackle version of Rick Ankiel (Ankiel was a baseball pitcher who suddenly began throwing wild pitches all over the place and never regained his previous form).
While a critic of Beatty's, I acknowledge that he isn't a complete waste of a roster spot---yet. I'd give him the next two years, and see what return the Giants could get on their investment. If he completely tanks, then you use the strategy above. If he's bad as opposed to embarrassingly bad, and you have a replacement on roster, then I'd keep him through 2015 after he's had a chance to compete for his job one last time.
A more reasonable approach would be to cut him after the 2015 season. As a normal cut that year, the Giants would stand to gain 4,175,000 in cap room for 2016 w/ $5 million remaining on the cap accounting books as Dead Money in one shot through the 2016 season.
Another way to do it would be to cut him after the 2015 season, not as a normal cut, but as a post June 1st cut. In that scenario, the Giants would gain $6,675,000 in cap room for the 2016 season, leaving Dead Money to be spread out over the next two years instead of just one in the amounts of $2.5 M in 2016 & another $2.5 M in 2017.
Bottom line: you don't reinforce a mistake by not seizing the opportunity to grab a quality left Tackle in the first round of the draft 4 & a half months from now. You're not married to Beatty in a cap sense for any longer than a year at minimum (probably two). If the tackle is there, and he is the best player available that fits a need, then you take him. Let Beatty compete, and prove his worth. If he fails, then you can get rid of him after the 2014 or 2015 seasons.
You can also use Pugh's versatility on the OL, just as Diehl's was used throughout his career (especially in his earlier years). You could take advantage of Pugh's versatility to your advantage, and move him to Guard for a year in case you need to get by for a season with the draft pick and Beatty playing opposite each other at the two Tackle positions. Of course, it would be better to leave Pugh alone at RT, but I'm throwing that option out there since the Giants did when they drafted him. Hopefully Pugh stays right where he is.
Beatty's going to be here on the roster for at least another year--probably two--but this does not mean that you use his cap hit as a crux to handing him a job that he never really earned in the first place due to the lack of competition that he had for his job (that's the whole "you are on this council, but we do not grant you the rank of master" argument that Star Wars geeks are familiar with regarding young emo Anakin Skywalker). He's on this roster, but it doesn't mean he has to start or be handed a starting job just because of it. This is especially dangerous since Beatty covers Eli's blind side.
William Beatty's salary cap pagecourtesy of OverTheCap.com - ( New Window )
Meanwhile we have huge holes at LB, CB, and no pass rush. I find the obsession with Beatty to be one of those BBI myopic self-reinforcing echo chambers that have long ago lost any sense of perspective.
Move onto the other 50+ areas where this team needs to improve.
Beatty had a couple of terrible games, but he is still our most consistent lineman. And if you focus on him, he plays well most snaps. He has been inconsistent, although he is almost never given any help.
I also noticed him limping after a play against Detroit. BTW, he was held by an OL on the safety. So, I also think he is nicked up. To be fair, everyone is hurting this time of season.
My point is that Beatty general plays better than those around him. He will NOT be cut. He probably won't be drafted over except in a BPA situation. And his cap number is reasonable for his relative talent.
Like I alluded to, we have bigger (and many other) fish to fry.
old timer : 9:12 am : link : reply
....when we have turnstiles at the RG, OC and LG? The center of the line is a complete disaster.
Meanwhile we have huge holes at LB, CB, and no pass rush. I find the obsession with Beatty to be one of those BBI myopic self-reinforcing echo chambers that have long ago lost any sense of perspective.
If Beatty is the best OLman, then we might as well can the whole front office for giving him that contract.....
Watching him last year, I could not under stand how he got such a huge contract....yes, some ratings on him didn't make him look bad, because sometimes he had help with a TE or Eli was able to side step a rusher.....The Giants can't even evaluate their own players? Instead, they gave him a Baas contract...
Next year he represents 15M in dead money....we are basically stuck with him for the next two years, before we can fiscally pull the plug....
I for one, hope it's an injury he is hiding, because you don't sign a LT to that kind of contract, with the physical mechanics he is displaying....if we can't judge talent on our own team, seeing them play week after week, how can you have confidence in a front office making decisions on free agents and draft prospects?
It's about as likely as the team cutting Eli after this season.
He's not going anywhere.
I never liked Beatty, and thought that his contract was a mistake due to the Giants trying to gamble one last time with the core of veterans that they had. Pat Kirwan disliked the signing, so that's an example of a guy's opinion which is actually valued regarding Beatty. I fully agree. Give me the OT from Tennessee in Round 1 if Kounadjio is gone before the Giants pick.
If a very good LT is on the board when we draft and that is our pick then I am fine with it...so long as the Coaches figure out how to move Beatty and Pugh and that draftee around so they ALL can play on our line in 2014.
He'll get his chances to pull out of this dive.
Pro personnel typically doesn't look at prospects in a needs-based vacuum.
When is the earliest that the Giants can move away from the Will Beatty contract? - December 26, 2013 - ( New Window )
I mean, really, watch the games. Beatty is far, far from our biggest problem.
Read this startling report on Giant wash-out Matt McCants now with the Raiders, especially the last sentence in the 4th? paragraph.
McCants grades out better than any Giant - ( New Window )
He's your starter next year. the following year, you can keep him for depth. Terrible value overall, but the way to make the most of a shitty deal. This scenario means you come up with a plan to replace him in a year.
Too early for that. you need a guard, center, guard, combo. You can't add a tackle to that list, with all the other needs we have. Roll the die with Beatty.
hope he improves. No real choice year one, a little more choice year two, can do what you want year 3.
Worst case scenario: he's on your team for 2014. Zero doubt about that. Almost positive he's the starter at LT (all scenarios say the same thing).
Pray he rebounds.
I even recall a post by Eric in the preseason comments on how well Beatty was playing IIRC. Then, this happendd.
I'm not expert on the OL, but I wonder how much of the interior lines trouble contributed to Beatty's poor play. I would think not much, but you always read about how cohesive the entire unit must be.
I think you have to assume our tackles are set, and go after a center and two guards in the draft/free agency.
What's the difference of drafting G this year or moving Pugh to G and drafting a Tackle. NONE. Expect the positive that now if someone gets hurt at Tackle there's a good replacement on the roster.
(Beatty) (Pugh) (Boothe/Baas) (Mosely/Brewer/FA) (1st Rounder blue goose)
Line is fixed, and only costed you a 1st rounder and re-signing Boothe.
Pugh has done just fine at RT, and I'm sure he will do the same at G. In fact I think he will do better there then Richardson or Jackson.
I'm not saying to force the pick to be OT, it's just this year happens to be strong at the position and the value matches where the Giants will be selecting.
But, if they draft a tackle high it's very likely Pugh gets a look at LG.
Teams watch film of every player and IMO now that teams have him and his tendencies down they know how to attack him. He's had 5 years to get stronger and more technical. How many more years does he need to get stronger? Ansah who is giving up 50-60 pounds bull rushed him and for a sack. That's pathetic.
Are we stuck with him probably, but this crap that he's the best OL or he's not major issue has got to stop. When you have that much cap $$$ allocated to a guy who has never proven shit it's a borderline disaster.
And comparing hIm to a guy who as two Super Bowl MVPs and was the main reason for even getting to the Super Bowl after getting a beating like few others I have ever seen in The San Fran game is just fucking moronic. Yeah. Let's give a guy who has never even made it to a lame ass pro bowl a second chance but bring up Eli as an example as why people should stop thinking about bringing in a top tier replacement. Seriously?
You don't run away form that just because you have a mediocre player signed to play the position. It's dangerous to think that way when it comes to building a team, especially building a team through the draft. People also need to remember that OTs are expensive, especially OLTs. The way to acquire them is via the draft, not through FA.
Get me Alex Mack and a guard like Asamoah and we'll be fine.
p.s.-- In 1988 the Giants drafted Eric Moore early in round one and Jumbo Elliot early in round two with the belief that Moore would be their left tackle of the future and Elliot would be their right tackle of the future. What happened? Elliot wound up at left tackle and Moore at left guard for most of their careers.
Where is it some sort of given that Pugh is so versatile he could, or should, play guard?Based on what? He's fine at RT.Find a guard, not a RT.Don't get the obsession with getting a new RT and moving pugh.
As for Pope, well, the case can be made he is living off his reputation. He hasn't done shit with Robinson or Donnell, he's had them both a couple of years,Myers still can't block, and is Pascoe significantly different than what he was 3 years ago?
Injuries, whatever, if you went off the past 3 years alone, other than Bennett ( who improved as much because he had the chance and because of Manning)you wouldn't say this is a great TE coach.Maybe it's a bad crop, I dunno, but Pope hasn't been anything to rave about the past few years.People say TC is old. So is Pope. Don't get me wrong, I'm not crying for his head, but if we cleaned house and he went out with the trash I wouldn't be too upset at this point.