"He's done great things, but he doesn’t do it consistently,” Barber said on WFAN (Read more at CBS Local › ). "What makes someone great in the history, in the annals of an organization or a league? It’s consistency.
"The problem with Eli, as of late, I think, is there’s something physically off. There’s definitely a confidence issue. And that has nothing to do with him. It has everything to do with those five guys — and really it’s been eight over the course of this year — in front of him that just can’t get it done. He’s constantly throwing off his back foot. I feel like he’s pressing sometimes to make some throws and they end up sailing on him
"It’s because of confidence and I think because he’s gotten the crap beat out of him.”
And what Tiki is saying is not wrong, it's obviously a nice cheap shot he is taking at him. Tiki is a such an ass, he just cannot help himself anymore.
The first part to me is the cheap shot. Explaining what's going on this year, I agree with him. Lets be honest, when Tiki has a chance to shoto down Eli, he does it. Its not outrageous, it is not low balling....
But he always gets a line or two in about something that he does wrong.
I am not going to get into the Tiki vs. Eli thing, because right now it just bores me.
To say Eli is not consistent is the furthest thing from the truth. In his 10 years, he always makes head scratching decisions. He has always thrown bad INTs. He has awlays made big throws, and clutch plays.
To me, he has always been the one consistent Giant, since you know what or how he was going to play. Obviously, this year has been bad and out of the norm. But if you look at his stats.... road/home, night/day, etc.... he always has been consistent with how he plays.
And thats what he needs to report, since it is "his job."
Some other qbs with really bad lines have been more successful than Eli has this year, but he is just not mobile enough to do much when the line has so many problems. That doesn't fully excuse or exonerate Eli, but I don't think his issue is a confidence one. He is still TRYING to make all the throws that he would make in other years, he is just missing on these throws a lot more.
But for him to make the first part of the statement just continues to show his animosity and jealousy towards Eli. Because lets be honest, it kills Tiki that Eli will go down as a better player and a better Giant than he will.
Eli has been great, but inconsistent for much of his career, and this year it's no stretch to say he's been rattled a bit playing behind a dogshit offensive line
Unless your point is that he is consistent in his inconsistency
Consistency is important and Eli has always been streaky. His hot streaks tend to be epic but far too often he's cold.
I think that's Tiki's point ...
I remember Giant fans beating the pavement for Kerry Collins. He was a stiff but few would let go of the Giant QB even when the rookie Eli arrived. Fans are loyal like TC is , whether the player is good or not just as long as the player played well at one time
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Coming from a Virginia grad..... Where did Tiki go again?
Tiki was a Top 3 RB in the league once he figured out the fumbling issue and peaked late. Tomlinson and Alexander were the other 2 guys in the mix. I would actually take Tiki over Alexander, I think Alexander had a dominant OL and Tiki was the more versatile player. Tiki vs. Tomlinson is tougher, as much as I like Tiki I think I'd go Tomlinson. Peak LdT was arguably the most complete RB ever.
Eli has only been a Top 5 QB once in his career, in 2011. Usually he is somewhere in that 8-13 range. This year he has been outside the Top 25.
So I agree that Tiki was a better RB than Eli was a QB.
But Eli's 2011 trumps any Tiki season by a mile. Eli's 2011 is clutchest QB season in NFL history. I'd go so far as to say that Eli's 2011 is arguably the best non-LT season in Giants history based on his importance to the team. His playoff run was unreal and he put the team on his back that year and carried them to the promised land. And of course 2007 was an amazing playoff run.
2011 Eli was only 2 years ago. I really hope he can get back to that level.
I feel the first part was a cheap shot. But I did agree with him on the 2nd part.
And I am taking Eli Manning 100x out of 100x from Tiki Barber. The QB position is far more important than the RB position. RBs are a dime a dozen.
But something is wrong--probably physical.
But it all starts up front--those guys suck.
well, that nails it down?
Now I am not going to disagree he wasnt a top 5 of the 2000s, because he was. But that statement is a little off the wall. Are you saying you would take Tiki over say a guy like, Emmitt Smith?
Umm, ok.
Throughout his career he has been between 58-62% completion percentage, 23-27 TDs, high number of INTs, has been around 4,000 yards passing the last 5 years. He has been consistent with his play.
75-43 record at home
76-41 record at home
TDs by month:
Sept - 53
Oct - 57
Nov - 53
Dec - 58
His play from year to year is as consistent as it gets. Two huge anamolies. 2011 and 2013.
The Giants and the Mannings tend to play this stuff close to the vest so we may never know if he's hiding an injury, but to me it appears his throws lack zip and accuracy. Could be from throwing off his back foot due to pressure. Could be bad mechanics. Could be an injury.
I do agree with you that he is overrated and I would take a bunch of backs before him that most people wouldnt, I still think he is better than Tiki too. I also find Troy Aikman to be incredibly overrated.
0 - 3500 yard seasons
1 - 20 TD season
first ballot hall of famer.... huh?
Looking at this data, Eli is tied with Matty Ice and Romo for largest standard deviation of passer rating as a percent of average passer rating. But the differences are not that great. (in any of you stat heads know a better approach to this let me know)
Obviously the passer rating has its own flaws, and this is not a definitive answer to the question but I thought it was interesting to look at the data
Data is from 2010-2012
QB........Avg Rating........Std Dev....Std Dev/Avg
Rodgers.....108.31...........25.19.........23%
Manning.....88.29............24.03.........27%
Brady......107.48............22.78.........21%
Ryan........96.87............25.72.........27%
Big Ben.....95.58............23.28.........24%
Brees......100.62............24.05.........24%
Romo........98.18............26.74.........27%
Sanchez.....75.99............27.22.........26%
2001 was too much of an injury year/split carry year. Only 160 some carries.
Funny how the Giants gelled so well after he left and won a SB.
Yeah Tiki put up big numbers but he never had the heart of a champion and he was not a good teammate IMHO.
He has led the NFL in interceptions three out of his ten years as a pro. This year, he has more INTs than he has great passes. He has had more seasons where his accuracy has been a problem.
Here is where he is consistent and where it is a huge asset. His demeanor and calmness. You get the same Eli week after week as far as that is concerned.
And what Tiki is saying is not wrong, it's obviously a nice cheap shot he is taking at him. Tiki is a such an ass, he just cannot help himself anymore.
Its only a cheap shot for you because he's talking about Eli.
Quote:
from no where land, no one one would care or disagree.
And what Tiki is saying is not wrong, it's obviously a nice cheap shot he is taking at him. Tiki is a such an ass, he just cannot help himself anymore.
Its only a cheap shot for you because he's talking about Eli.
Great work radar. You're definitely the most consistent thing here. Sad thing is it just isn't much to write home about.
Eli may be getting pressured, sacked, and frustrated but he is not getting the crap beat out of him. He is actually good at knowing when the big hit is coming and avoids the blow or just goes down.
Must be the SF playoff game that haunts him...
I get Tiki's attitude post-career has been douchey, but he was a fantastic player. Why try to knock what he accomplished with Eli and this team in those final three years of his career?
What Tiki said in the OP isn't wrong, although he misses something. Greats don't only play consistent, they need to play big in big games. Is Matt Ryan or Tony Romo, who have great regular season stats, thought of greater than Manning? I don't think so.
LOOK at BROWN and GIFFORD.
GIFF made all pro at 3 different positions DB, RB and WR.
BROWN had a crappy QB and still could not be stopped.
SANDERS retired when he probably had 3 more years in him.
ONLY injuries stopped GALE and OJ.
in his arm and in his receivers to make the play.
Eli has been more consistent than any QB in the past 7 years in winning titles. That's what is important to me. I don't give a shit about stats being consistent. Those don't get framed and put on the wall.
The consistency angle is overrated, because it's easy fodder for talking heads. The "annals of history" are laced with people that had up and down games, up and down years. What matters are wins, championships, big games, and big memories.
Nice stats are just table stakes.
link - ( New Window )
What if everyone is partially right in this?
Also, I agree that Tiki was a better RB than Eli was. That isn't a knock on Eli, Tiki was legitimately one of the top 2 RBs in the league, maybe even the best in 05.
I don't know why people can't see this.
I think one problem Eli has always had is that when he stinks, he tends to throw the ball high. It always leads to stretches of play with high turnovers (this season being the worst). A guy like McNabb was just as inconsistent with his accuracy as Eli, but when he missed he missed short. Tom Brady is the same way, he's more accurate than McNabb or Eli but when he is off he tends to bounce it short. Eli airmails it and that's always hurt him.
Whether Eli can regain his previous form is unknown. It isn't a given. He's closing in on thirty-three. But a better OL certainly gives him a chance, especially considering his past successes. You saw a slight glimmer of that this past weekend on a few throws, especially that fastball he threw into a very tight window for the TD to JJ.
My guess is that the Giants will restructure/extend Eli. I wouldn't. I'd simply eat his cap number for next season, and evaluate the situation again at that time.
As far as the Eli/Tiki debate, I wouldn't take Tiki over Eli. And I am a UVA grad.