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How to fix the offense

Vin_Cuccs : 12/26/2013 5:12 pm
I would like to make this thread a suggestion thread more so than strictly an opinion piece. Please feel free to add opinions, ideas, thoughts or disagreements.

So it looks as if Coughlin will return as head coach which I am absolutely fine with. He is still the right man for the job. I fully expect Gilbride to return as well; I feel that Gilbride and Coughlin are tied together and as long as we have one, we will have the other. It would have been nice to shake things up and go with a different approach offensively, but it doesnít look as if that is the case.

Since Gilbride is probably staying, I feel that he needs to simplify the offense. Enough of the audibles, enough of the delay of game penalties, enough of the option routes and enough of the shotgun draws. His plays have become very predictable and it is inefficient for the offense to constantly throw plays away and be working on 2nd and 3rd and longs. I think it is time for a ball control offense with high-percentage passes. Sure, this offense still needs to take shots downfield, but timing routes with effectiveness is a better way to run the offense. That starts with the QB and keeping him upright. With that in mindÖ

The fatal flaw of this offense is obviously the line. This will be the toughest fix in my opinion. Pugh looks like a keeper; I really like this kid. His improvement game by game was outstanding and he is versatile and a schematic fit. Great work ethic too. The real question with Pugh is where does he play? Will he and Beatty switch sides? Will he move inside to OG? Pugh is a technician and not a prototypical road-grader, power RT. Reese has said that Beatty and Pugh will be his bookends of the future but a change would not surprise me at all.

The biggest individual issue on the line is Beatty. His contract is an albatross and now what will the team do with him? As I said above, will they put him at RT and move Pugh to LT? Do you cut him and take the cap hit? Ask him to restructure after only one year? Moving to OG is not an option for Beatty. Not sure how realistic these targets are but Brandon Albert, Michael Oher and Rodger Saffold would all be great targets via free agency. If I had to guess, I would think that Beatty and Pugh will be the OTís.

Beatty might be the biggest individual problem, but the interior offensive line as a whole is in shambles. Snee has been a warrior but he needs to retire. His body has failed him. Boothe and Diehl are both free agents and they should not be brought back. Maybe a guy like Reynolds, Goodin, Herman or Mosley can develop but they canít be counted on. The team may have some decent developmental projects at OG, but they canít gamble. John Jerry, Jon Asomoah and Zane Beadles would be some good targets through free agency and I think a free agent guard is much more realistic than a free agent OT.

Center is also an issue and Baas should be cut due to the same issues as Snee. Cordle was serviceable but he is no longer a factor due to the knee injury. Iíve never been a big fan of Boothe and I would not re-sign him. Reynolds is too much of an unknown to count on him. Obviously Alex Mack would be wonderful, but I doubt that happens due to price. Maybe a guy like Brian De La Puente or Evan Dietrich-Smith would be serviceable.

I think that the team needs to go after a big, physical TE who can help with blocking and be a big target in the middle of the field and Brandon Pettigrew fits the bill. Enough of the patchwork at TE and year-to year fixes. Pettigrew can help keep the QB upright and be a threat in the passing game; just what the doctor ordered. Scott Chandler might be another option.

A veteran RB as well as a WR to replace Nicks will be necessary. Jeremy Maclin or Emmanuel Sanders might make sense as compliments to Cruz and Randle. Donald Brown or Ben Tate would be good veteran options at RB.

The lifeblood of an NFL roster is the draft, but I expect activity via free agency. This team should have plenty of cap space to play with which is imperative because there are a lot of holes to fill.
stop drafting "projects", start drafting players.  
ed90631 : 12/26/2013 5:30 pm : link
Wasting a draft pick on a backup QB is unforgivable, when so many other needs go unfulfilled. Drafting a running back who can't block and therefore won't ever play is plain stupid.
Id rather  
AnishPatel : 12/26/2013 5:39 pm : link
build from within and that would mean Ross needs to step up for once. Reese hit a home run in 2007 when he was GM and did his Director of college scouting job. Ross has yet to had a good to great draft.

I still wish the system would change. I really hoping we make a change. If not then whenever Coughlin gets the hell out of here I can expect a new system. I am sick and tired of WR and ball going different ways.
Giants : 12/26/2013 5:40 pm : link
OL will fix this offense
Vin..great analysis,,,and ed09631 I totally agree. I've been saying  
Blue21 : 12/26/2013 5:53 pm : link
that for years. I'm tired of drafting players and trying to squeeze them into positions they didn't play or players that are unkown projects. And I agree with you about drafting a QB like they did last year. He better be good enough this year to back up Eli otherwise it's a total waste. There would be no value in him for anything trade or otherwise.
Drafting Jernigan was also thought of as a "wasted pick"  
GloryDayz : 12/26/2013 5:57 pm : link
What if Giants are still in contention when Cruz got injured? Would have been a good pick considering he's probably been the best WRs the last 2 weeks. Its only 2 games, but sometimes thats all it takes to either make the playoffs or get eliminated.

Same thing with Nassib... if he becomes a good QB, he's worth having even if (hopefully) he never gets a snap until Eli retires. Besides... its not like Giants took him with a top pick.
you can't have both...  
SHO'NUFF : 12/26/2013 6:01 pm : link
either it's TC, Gilbride AND the complex offense or something entirely new in all 3 phases...I would love for TC to stay with a new OC and a modern passing system, but that ain't happening.
Beatty is Giants LT at least through the 2015 season IMO  
GloryDayz : 12/26/2013 6:07 pm : link
Barring injury of course. He wont cut it as a RT and too expensive to be cut or benched.

Beatty is having a bad season, but overall he's serviceable at worst IMO. Cutting him before 2015 would be a big cap blow for the Giants and they wont do it unless the absolutely have to which isnt the case now.

Our biggest OL issue is not the OTs, its the interior, both OGs and OC. Improve that and Beatty looks better. Add to that a TE that can block, even better.

Did Giants overpay for Beatty, possibly, but too early to tell. Regardless what other options did they have? Could they have afforded to let him walk? Who plays LT?
John Mara hasn't weighed in yet on the coaching staff.  
Reese's Pieces : 12/26/2013 6:12 pm : link
As soon as the Giants' last game is over the questions will begin about the fate of the coaching staff.

Will Mara give Coughlin an unconditional vote of confidence, or will he hedge even a little bit, or will he refuse to talk about it at all at present?

I assure you that he is very unhappy about the way this season went and very unhappy with the play of the offense the last two weeks.
If you give TC a pass, must do the same w/ KG  
GloryDayz : 12/26/2013 6:16 pm : link
He was the OC in the same 2 SBs TC won, and seems only logical to be given the same kind of treatment, unless TC decides otherwise, which I doubt.

I'm not a fan of KG by any means, but I think Giants let TC and his crew play out the final year of TC's contract. Then they decide. There definitely has been coaching issues, but they also have plenty of talent issues as well.
The immediate problem with the offense  
oipolloi : 12/26/2013 6:18 pm : link
Is obviously the OL

But the longterm problem is that the marriage of Gilbride's run and shoot principles in the passing game with Coughlin's establish-the-run mentality has never really worked consistently. It leads to the offense veering back and forth between ultra conservative and wide open. Run the ball off tackle on firs and second down and then throw a 60 yard bomb. When the Offense does click, it can be explosive but never consistently so. Last week: driving down the field in the first half with the passing game and then 8 yards of total offense on the first four possessions in the second half. It's Jeckyll and Hyde

But going into next season, Giants must address OL. They are stuck with Beatty for at lest one more year but I would love to see them take an OT in the first round. Pugh looks like he can be an all-pro at RT. I'd leave him there as long as possible. I'd also take an G/C in the second or third round. Just gt the OL set so they can evolve and grow together. I'd also sign a Locklear type of backup at OT.
So we want to keep  
Bill in UT : 12/26/2013 6:28 pm : link
TC and Gilbride and Ross but just have them act like they're not TC and Gilbride and Ross. Sorry, not gonna happen.
I agree, if we fix the interior of the line everything looks better  
PatersonPlank : 12/26/2013 6:38 pm : link
G & C need a be replaced. Pugh is good, and I believe Beatty improves with better play from the interior line (plus the blocking TE). The OL works as a unit. Obviously the Giants have confidence in the guy, so who am I to judge. I don't know enough about his responsibilities, and the guy next to him's, to make an accurate assessment.
Mondo : 12/26/2013 6:41 pm : link
isn't going to change shit.
Nice write up Vin  
Rjanyg : 12/26/2013 7:45 pm : link
I will be curious to see the approach our front office takes in regards to FA.
The draft is much later this year ( May ) giving a good 2 months to sign players prior.

I think Beatty will remain the LT with Pugh staying at RT. There is a chance they keep Baas, just based on his salary alone. The main position of target must be right guard. A true road grader is in order. The other guard position will come from the current roster or the draft. Tight End is the next priority. A pure blocker with a red zone presence is vital. This player should come from FA not the draft. Drafting a WR early is probably what the Giants will do. Running back is a serious question as well. I like Hillis. He is tough, can catch and can pass protect. John Conner should be our FB of the future.

One thing is for sure, there will be a major roster overhaul. As many as 6 new starters on offense alone.
All the things that need to happen, won't happen.  
Geeman : 12/26/2013 7:49 pm : link
The Giants truly need to move on from KG's complicated scheme that takes many players too long to make an impact and we know about all the communication issues the system is prone to already, so no need to go into that.
If TC is back then KG is back and that's what it looks like will occur.
The Oline has to be completely overhauled with the exception of Pugh who is solid. Beatty really needs to be replaced but because of his contract he will remain on the roster, however it is important that the Giants draft his replacement to compete for his spot. They have to restructure the entire interior of this Oline.
2 way TE is also a must for this offense. Letting MB go was a mistake.
If the staff remains the same,  
MOOPS : 12/26/2013 8:18 pm : link
the system will not change.
Re: Staff changes and system changes  
Vin_Cuccs : 12/26/2013 9:16 pm : link
Obviously, Gilbride needs to run his system. With that said, he needs to be a smarter play caller as well as a smarter game planner.

I understand he was limited by his roster this season, but his play calling must improve. Look at the game last week: he varied his calls and did a good job of confusing the defense.

Most importantly, I really think he has to simplify. Too many audibles which lead to delay of game penalties and too many option routes that lead to miscommunication and turnovers.
#1: Center #2: RB #3: Guard #4: Tackle #5: TE  
baadbill : 12/26/2013 9:26 pm : link
I told myself I would limit it to 5 pieces to the puzzle, but it's tough to ignore WR.

And while the OL needs a complete overhaul, a tough SOB of a RB, more than a flashy dancer, is what this offense really needs (i.e. Wilson isn't the answer even if he's healthy). And IMO getting that RB is as important as improving the OL.
Re: Offensive line  
Vin_Cuccs : 12/26/2013 9:29 pm : link
It would really help if they could get at least one young guy to develop and step up.

As of today, they have two tackles, Beatty and Pugh, and nothing in between. That is where the flexibility of Pugh comes in handy; if the team goes out and signs a tackle, they can easily move Pugh to guard and solidify two positions.

Diehl is obviously done and I personally feel that Boothe isn't a starting caliber offensive linemen. Brewer looks like he can not play at this level. Cordle was serviceable but his injury looks to jeopardize next season.

It would be nice if some of the young guys could step up. I had high hopes for Mosley, but I don't think he should just be handed a starting job. Herman and Goodin both have potential, but it would be insane to just hand them a starting job without an insurance policy.

A guy who impressed me, albeit in a very limited opportunity, was Reynolds. It would be great if he could step in and win a job at center, but it would be too risky to throw him into the starting lineup.

Either way, I think we are looking at AT LEAST two starting linemen through free agency, possible three depending on what young players they like and think can contribute.

I agree  
Spock : 12/26/2013 9:38 pm : link
All we need are three more quality lineman and this should fix the problem.
Gilbride needs to be a better play caller and  
Bill in UT : 12/26/2013 10:27 pm : link
better game planner. And a bulldog needs to be a golden retriever
We clearly need to improve the OL  
Reb8thVA : 12/26/2013 11:12 pm : link
I am looking at a minimum drafting one guard and a center and signing a starting Guard. I would look for a LT in the first because LT looks to be a strength of the draft. The Giants may want to stat with Beatty. I also want a TE that blocks and catches and a three down RB. At WR it all depends on what happens with Nicks. If you let him go yo have to find a 1 WR. That just complicates everything. If you draft Watkins that one less OL.

Gillbride and Coughlin need to be less predictable. We are not talented enough to impose our will even if the other team knows what is coming. They also need to think about whether we have the
Personnel to run the offense they want to. If the answer is no then do you get the right personnel or change the system.
Need quite a few new pieces  
JonC : 12/26/2013 11:16 pm : link
They could potential shuffle four OL positions, need at least one TE, one RB, and one WR (and even then we're hoping Randle matures quickly, and sometimes he just doesn't seem to be present).
RE: Beatty is Giants LT at least through the 2015 season IMO  
Reese's Pieces : 12/26/2013 11:46 pm : link
In comment 11415428 GloryDayz said:
Barring injury of course. He wont cut it as a RT and too expensive to be cut or benched.

Beatty is having a bad season, but overall he's serviceable at worst IMO. Cutting him before 2015 would be a big cap blow for the Giants and they wont do it unless the absolutely have to which isnt the case now.

Our biggest OL issue is not the OTs, its the interior, both OGs and OC. Improve that and Beatty looks better. Add to that a TE that can block, even better.

Did Giants overpay for Beatty, possibly, but too early to tell. Regardless what other options did they have? Could they have afforded to let him walk? Who plays LT?

Good to see some optimism. Actually Beatty was drafted in 2009 in the second round and spent four whole years being groomed to take over at left tackle. This was his year to shine and I think that you could characterize his play as disappointing at least. I don't know if it's possible to have a bad year before you ever had a good year. If he keeps allowing his QB to get run over, he'll have to be replaced no matter what his cap number is.
DeMartino finishing strong  
Bill in UT : 12/27/2013 12:19 am : link
About 145 yards, 7 ypc. Not sure he has pro measurables
Bill in UT : 12/27/2013 12:21 am : link
Wrong thread
How to fix the offense?  
SHO'NUFF : 12/27/2013 12:52 am : link
Gilbride has to go. Period.
The same coaches will go with the same guys...  
buljos : 12/27/2013 1:25 am : link
don't look for much change at all. They'll convince themselves the O-line's fine, and 2013 was just the perfect storm of injuries that won't happen again. They'll go with Beatty-Boothe-Baas-Snee-Pugh. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept Diehl, who PFF grades out as one of the worst linemen in the NFL. So what. It's our boy David! Gotta keep him around, right? Who knows... maybe that line holds up in 2014 and does a descent job. Snee doesn't have another hip to operate on, so maybe he'll actually be able to move. My consolation prizes for not investing in this line would be bringing back Marrio Manningham (knows the offense, so he can contribute immediately), bringing in Jermichael Finley for Myers, and drafting RB Carlos Hyde in the 3rd round (can they really rely on Wilson's neck and Brown's legs all season?).
Bring Back Everyone!  
Jeffrey : 12/27/2013 8:21 am : link
At least let's bring back everyone who was on the 2 Super Bowl teams--they get to stay as long as they want because we owe them that. Next let's try hardest to bring back everyone who was on just the last Super Bowl team-we may not owe them as much but we still should allow them the choice of whether to stay. Finally, let's trade all the fans who are not grateful to the coaches and players who won the two Super Bowls--trade with Cleveland or the Jags where fans would be appreciative of just getting to the playoffs.
TC and KG are staying but I think they will likely change  
Jimmy Googs : 12/27/2013 9:01 am : link
the offense somewhat and will most definitely change the offensive line.

We may all think they are stubborn bastards but no human being with any interest in football can look at our O-line and say we can consistently win games with it. I would be shocked if the first conversation of any "insider" group on the Giants wasn't how we improve the O-line.

Talk all you want about Beatty but the guy is staying mainly due to his contract which buys him at least another year at LT. Pugh is fine at RT, but consideration must be given to moving him to Guard if Giants can find a reliable RT (a RT that can cover both RT and LT would be a nice gift this off-season from Pick #1). My guess is they keep Baas around for another season as well at Center. But I would presume we will have 2 new experienced starting Guards via Free Agency. If Reese can find a versatile RT in the Draft then we have the new line with an extra swing-man at tackle. Then when Baas is cut in 2015 we target a new starting Center in that Draft.

As for reserves, I only see Mosely and Boothe as guys coming back to be backup Guards/Center.

Obviously can't tell about Hermann yet, but I would guess Brewer, Snee, Diehl, Cordle, Goodin, Reynolds will all be cut or don't make it thru camp for various reasons.

Probably a two-year fix on O-line but hopefully most of it coming in year one.

This offense depends heavily on the offensive line  
dbrny : 12/27/2013 11:09 am : link
I like the offense for its explosiveness (when it works). I don't get the need to take unnecessary risks throwing the ball 11-20 yards on first down within our own 40. If you look at the tape, this is where Eli's most costly interceptions are most frequently seen.

As I've said in the past, contrast that with most other consistently productive offenses, and you'll see that teams like the Pats/Broncos/Eagles leaning heavily on short passing until they get to about the 40-45.

The head scratcher is that time and time again when the offense is struggling, they start focusing on the short to intermediate stuff. This yields high percentage completions and lower INTs, yet it doesn't take long before they revert back to the vertical routes from that situation.

That saidÖit obviously isn't changing, and Football Outsiders has the Giants O Line at 30th in the league, and no better than 20th in any part of it. That's where the team needs to start.
After this Sunday, the spin-doctoring will begin...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 12/27/2013 6:47 pm : link
and many here will believe the BS coming out of the front office. The reality is that far too much must be changed and we cannot do it all in one off season. So, you will hear a lot about how the team has confidence in this guy or the other guy. Plus, whatever Gilbride is doing is NOT working. Any BS about just replacing a couple of guys on the O line will be the difference is just more BS.

Finally, nothing really mentioned earlier in this thread about Eli. This cannot be ignored either. There is more happening with him than just some pressure due to a poor O line. His decision making has declined, his accuracy has declined, his mechanics have gotten worse, he is not seeing the field, etc... What is the plan to correct this?
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