Should the Giants rely on Randle to replace Nicks?

has the talent, it's just a matter of putting it together and being consistent. He's looked really good catching the ball and shown everything you want in a WR - speed, size, hands, agility, run after catch. The coaching may play a role here. Some of it would depend upon the OC and their opinion of the player.

I'd like Nicks back, but I'm fine with Randle as his replacement.

But get him away from returning punts. JFC.

Nothing I've seen leads me to believe he can be a #1 wideout. But Randle in combination with a FA WR, or draftee, Nicks can be replaced.

and that is coming from a huge Nicks fan

get a great TE and or a real mid round reliable smart zone sabby possession type WR

I suspect Randle needs a kick in the arse at times to handle his duties more professionally, and seriously.

The salary cap most likely forces them to rely on Randle, that and the fact he's been in the system for two years, where they typically look at UFA WRs as depth players.

and build from there. Randle can't give us less next year than what we got from Nicks. Draft best OL available in first and second round. Sign a vet RB and vet OG and win this crappy division again next year.

that's the direction we're headed.
Just a gut feeling, but you might even see Cruz at the Z spot, Randle at X, Jernigan in the slot. You can still play Cruz in the slot at times, but Cruz is capable of playing the Z in 3 WR sets and I'm not sure Jernigan is.

I can't foresee them offering Nicks a competitive contract.

Then they have to. Resources need to be spent on the OL. Even more possibly if Beatty's injury is severe.

I see glimpses of his talent especially after the catch, but what I have not yet seen is whether he can put together the types of dominating games that Nicks has like the game against Tampa last year where Nicks was unstoppable. I know I am in the minority, but I try to keep Nicks. The organization clearly has more info on Nicks and what has gone wrong with hi this year than we do. I'll be ok with whatever direction we may go, but I'd try to salvage things and get Nicks back to where he was.

they could get away with Randle starting at WR.

.

Tampa. a reject that Schiano gave a chance to and now he is a budding star. there are many of his like out there. I wouldn't fret about losing Nicks

overpay for Nicks after this year. But as others have pointed out, add some reinforcements on OL, a good 2 way TE and a decent back, then suddenly RR and Cruz have more room to operate

He's not a 1 yet; he's stuck at 3.
If we get a veteran 1, who is productive for us so that RR sees what a 1 has to do, maybe he can emulate and become a 1.

means, I think, that the Giants wont even offer Nicks a contract. The guy hasnt scored a TD in 20 games. He's frankly easily replaceable.

You wouldnt be replacing a #1 WR... Nicks hasnt been that in 2 years...

Cruz
Jernigan
Randle

...is better than what a lot of teams have. We do need to upgrade TE.

To be a case of having to trust the system and have faith that these guys can either rebound or prove they can do it.

The same is going to be said about JPP and Beatty. Granted those two each have a good/great year under their belt, but the Giants are going to have to rely on several players to step up big time next year if they are going to compete.

I don't see Randle at the level of where Nicks was when he was playing well. To me, Randle is s step below that play-making ability.

because you want to use the resources to address other holes is sor of a double edged sword. If you draft a TE like Ebron or Amaro in the first round as another recieving threat, you are spending a pick that might be better used to draft an LT. The same if you draft a WR like Evans or Watkins. Even if Randle, Cruz, and Jernigan are your top three WRs next year, you are going to have to sign or draft two more WRs which again expends resources. Either way it will cost us.

In comment 11425105 Randy in CT said:

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I don't see Randle at the level of where Nicks was when he was playing well. To me, Randle is s step below that play-making ability.

Agree. I think he's a third receiver. Not a # 1.

is anywhere near consistent enough to be a replacement for someone like Nicks. Would be a huge drop off.

but Cruz is more than just a "slot WR". With the emergence of JJ in the last 4 games, I think a trio of Cruz, Randle, and JJ is a very good WR core. Then add a 2 way TE and a mid-round (3-5) pick at WR to the mix and the passing game should have plenty of weapons.

But it won't matter who is playing WR unless they fix the OL and running game.

play making ability or ability to dominate at times..but they need to rely on him as he is cheap..hopefully we will be proven wrong and he steps up..

To repeat the same song it is imperative they upgrade OL even at the expense of the WR core..it will make everyone on offense including RR look better in 2014..

Nicks can go.

What's the deal with Randles knee? On Sunday someone mentioned torn ACL.

and fix the Oline to where they can have at least a somewhat respectable rushing attack and Eli & the remaining WRs can get it done.

Go something like Oline, WR, TE in the draft & bring in another Oline guy via free agency.

Randle, Jerrian, a draft choice or a low priced vet. The money needs to go into the OL, TE & DL

He didn't play well all year, he missed what was one of the most important games of the year at home against Dallas, where having him in may have changed the outcome.

I wouldn't mind Nicks being that "low-priced vet."

JJ replaces Cruz
Randle replaces whoever the #3 was.

is probably not going to get a mega-contract this offseason. There have to be real questions about his ability at this point. Are teams really going be lining up to make a huge commitment right now? Depending on the environment, it might be possible to sign him to a short-term "prove it" style contract.

given the other needs - could we afford the contract he would demand if he played lights out?

on a 1 year prove his worth contact. 2013 really hurt his market value so I think this works for both sides.

In comment 11425205 bc4life said:

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given the other needs - could we afford the contract he would demand if he played lights out?

Probably not. But at least we'd get one year of "Nicks" production. It doesn't look like we're really "rebuilding" so it would be valuable. Of course, we might not even be in a cap situation where offering a decent sized one year deal would make sense for the Giants. I don't know if it's the best idea, but I do think it could be a consideration for both sides.

In comment 11425193 PatersonPlank said:

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JJ replaces Cruz Randle replaces whoever the #3 was.

Cruz is best in the slot. Not on the outside.

He barely played Z at a quality level. I don't want him at X after seeing him play like shit this season. Will the system and/or OC remain the same? How about the Wr coach whose whole unit stunk this season?

I am nervous to have RR be our X. I can imagine Eli trying to throw a back shoulder pass, only to have RR keep running down field resulting in an.... you guessed it, INT. So no, no X for RR.

and somehow Green Bay and New Englan are doing it with guys no one ever heard of year after year. Its not just about Nicks. Its about what he costs vs what he delivers and if you give him the 8-10 million he's going to want or do you resign guys lie Beason, joseph, and even Tuck who actually showed up this year.

So yeah Randle and maybe even Murphy along with JJ and Cruz rather than hand out another potential bad contract.

we need to sure up the oline, that changes everything. Gives the WRs more time for their routes, more time to throw, and crisper passes that aren't pressured.

Spending big via draft or FA on a WR would be foolish, IMO.

I'd take Watkins/Evans only if a big OT isn't available.

Plus I don't think the Giants have a choice.

Sammy Watkins is not going to be there at 12 and contrary to other opinions on this board, Evans is a gigantic gamble at 12, I think whether he can play at the next level is a huge question mark.

Not to mention, of there was ever a year where the Giants need to throw everything and the kitchen sink at rebuilding the oline, it is this offseason.

Elite receivers are very valuable and we wouldn't have won in 2011 without 2 of them. But the Offensive Line is more valuable to this team right now. Look at the Pats, they plug receivers into their system all the time, and it works. A good QB with time can go through his progressions and hit the open man.

Can Randle replace Nicks 2011 production by himself? Possibly, but I don't think so. If you bring in a TE, another WR and have 4 or 5 guys who Eli can trust on this team to make plays, then I think the all around production of 2011 can be reached and this team can be a top 10 offense next year. Just my opinion.

think Randle has a lot more talent than what he's been allowed to exhibit in Gilbride's crazy complicated system. He has already shown flashes. No, he hasn't been as good as Nicks was right away, but he has produced.

We also have a lot of holes to fill. Sure, we could use another big WR, but that will have to be a low level veteran FA, or a mid round pick. We have to fortify the lines and get a CB. RB is also probably a higher priority. At this point, I wouldn't count on Wilson.

re-signing Nicks. He had a lousy year and no one knows if he'll ever be good again. Want to throw him 9-10M based on hope? I don't.

I think Randle will have to step up in 2014 as our #1 receiver. I'm sure they will acquire another WR to go with Cruz and Jernigan.

Maybe Manningham can be brought back?

If you bring in Sullivan it makes me hedge a bit towards the positive. If there is one area that Sullivan has shown an ability to make an impact, it's to teach and improve in certain areas functionally with players and he did coach up our WRs when he was here pretty well. With him as an OC, that's an entirely different conversation and I've stated how much I hate the idea of us thinking of him as some head coach in waiting.

I'm okay with Randle with the understanding he's still reasonably cheap and you might have Jernigan breaking through a bit to become a WR here. I don't see Nicks coming back here as a serious option.

I'm a firm believer that the offense runs best with Eli when he has that #1 type of WR. I don't really see that in Randle. He can be very good but I don't think he's a go to guy. They can get by with him in that role if they really improve the OL, RB and TE positions but I don't see all of that happening.

just to add stability to the WR core but I wouldn't break the bank on anyone. Maybe someone who needs to prove something like Mario Manningham and then draft one early in the draft. TE is the position we need to upgrade the most and mainly because they can assist the OL in blocking and also assist the WRs in receiving.

But so far he hasn't shown enough to take over for Nicks

Jj..murphy..anyone on practice
Squad are better than nicks...
He wants more $$$$...that's a joke

on the outside way more explosive at this point put jernigan in the slot

much harder to double being in the slot and in motion...

Randal needs to learn to be consistent... often times he "body catches" the ball vs using his hands first. He also runs poor routes at times which is where the consitency comes into play.

and he is a terrible PR...


Id sign Nicks to a "Show-Me" deal but I think there will be a team like the Jets that will take a chance on him

The question becomes what is a prove it contract. Top WR contracts are in the 40M range with 15-20M SB - he is not getting that

What are you offering Nicks - someone is going to offer him a multi-year deal. In a shit year he caught 56 passes for a 16 ypc. What is that worth

He had 14 catches of 20+ yds, same as Dez Bryant. Garcon and Marshall had almost 50 more catches and had 16 catches of 20 or more.

What is that worth - it is certainly more than a show me contract

He's too unreliable. But Nicks dogged it this year like no one I can recall in all the years that TC has been here. Shockey and Plax were both divas, but they at least seemed to try hard and care whether the team won. Nicks' efforts this year were an embarrassment; I wouldn't offer him the money it will take to re-sign him.

Talk of a show-me contract seems unrealistic to me. Some team will give him more years and money than we can afford or should risk given his woeful level of motivation in 2013.

Now, that leaves us w/o a #1 receiver. I cannot see us drafting a WR in the 1st round...I have to guess that we'll go OL there. So we may have to do a patchwork job at WR next year. Less than ideal, but better than getting Eli killed by a pitiful OL.

to repeat 2011 and 2012 when Cruz and when healthy Nicks were arguably the top WR duo in football. There's too many other giant holes that make that expectation an unrealistic luxury IMO.

I agree with most of what you wrote. Keep in mind that there may have been something physical with Nicks too that we don't know about.

I wouldn't even make Nicks an offer unless the Giants know exactly what went wrong for him this year and are sure it's going to be fixed.

We are stuck with Randle as our #1 receiver for 2014 because of other priorities like getting a better TE.

Nicks is history!

but I would be very surprised if the Giants didn't add a backup either via FA or the draft.

make randle a #2 better along with Cruz and Jernigan that's enough receiving options hopefully within a new system.
Randle is not as good as Nicks but he should be good enough.
I'm also a big Nicks fan and would hate to see him go but it's based on the roster and the CAP this looks like the likely scenario.

I can see Nicks taking a one year deal and returning because he knows he can't get the deal he wants right now. But even if he returns, he needs to start playing like 2011. Aside from that, they need to spend their money and high draft picks elsewhere so I don't see any other #1 WR walking through the door. We could see an impact in TE though.

In comment 11425549 mrvax said:

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I agree with most of what you wrote. Keep in mind that there may have been something physical with Nicks too that we don't know about. I wouldn't even make Nicks an offer unless the Giants know exactly what went wrong for him this year and are sure it's going to be fixed. We are stuck with Randle as our #1 receiver for 2014 because of other priorities like getting a better TE.

mrvax, I agree completely. The sad thing is that Nicks, if healthy and motivated, will go on to do excellent work for his next team.

as long as he remains motivated. One thing Nicks can do is go up and get the ball because he has enormous hands. The question is can Randle be as physical. If he can then go with him. Nicks wants to stay with the NYG but not if he the second highest paid WR on the team and the Giants can't justify paying him the same or more than Cruz for 2 reasons. Productivity and health.

I also think assuming Gilbride is let go the Giants won't be relying as much on deep passes. Quick slants, out routes and screens will play into Randles skill set more than Nicks.

Mike Williams got 40M from TB as a no. 2. Hartline got 30M from Miami as a 2

Earl Bennett 15M 4 yrs 7M guar
Eddie Royal 13.5M 3 yrs 6M guar
Lance Moore 20M 5 yrs 7M guar
Del Walker 17.5M 4 yrs 6M guar
N. Washington 26.8M 5 yrs 7M guar

etc, etc, etc

Yes, Nicks will just get a 1 year show me contract and that is it

Went into next season with Randle and Cruz on the outside and Jernigan in the slot, that certainly would not be too bad at all. I think the Giants would need to fire Murphy and to add two receivers, but they will, and hopefully they could come in and contribute, I could see us adding a veteran free agent and a draft pick to the mix.

Would not be a bad idea to add a back that can watch a pass or two, plus they need a good tight end in this offense, a good two way tight end, like Bennet, I also am not against retaining Meyers, as long as he wants to come back for a reasonable price and as long as Pope wants him back, he seemed to improve as a blocker and could be a much better player in this offense next season, but if he wants a big long term deal, good bye.

are top 3 heading into next season very well could be..

Randle and Cruz, with Jernigan in the slot or as the 3rd WR.. if the offensive line and running game is there.. those 3 could still potentially be very explosive.. Cruz is proven.. and the talent and ability is definitely there with Randle and Jernigan..

I'd love to keep Nicks.. but I think there's a good chance he moves on..

with all this said.. I would hope we'd also draft another wide receiver or sign a vet to compete and add depth at the wide receiver position..

I don't see any way Nicks is back. For me Randle is serviceable but not on Nicks's level (when he was at his best). I am not convinced like many that Jernigan is the real deal, but I can live with him and hope whatever coaching staff we have can figure out a way to get him more involved. So we probably need to find someone, ideally through free agency so we can spend draft picks on shoring up the line.

As long as I never have to see Louis Murphy Jr. in a Giants uniform again!!!

is starting to show signs that he's been bitten by the Peerless Price/Ocho Cinco bug where a WR goes from relevant to irrelevant very quickly.

In comment 11425110 Reb8thVA said:

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because you want to use the resources to address other holes is sor of a double edged sword. If you draft a TE like Ebron or Amaro in the first round as another recieving threat, you are spending a pick that might be better used to draft an LT. The same if you draft a WR like Evans or Watkins. Even if Randle, Cruz, and Jernigan are your top three WRs next year, you are going to have to sign or draft two more WRs which again expends resources. Either way it will cost us.

I disagree, you are avoiding a very risky investment. Better of spending that Nicks money on a proven FA. For instance, a TE could be drafted high and a starting guard or two instead of paying Nicks.

In comment 11425105 Randy in CT said:

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I don't see Randle at the level of where Nicks was when he was playing well. To me, Randle is s step below that play-making ability.

Agreed

Nicks was already great in his second year.

in the league to be successful. You just need GOOD WRs if you have an "elite" QB and the right system. A running game doesn't hurt either.

History shows that a lot of guys can produce at the WR level if you can just get them the ball. Look around the league and see that random guys are having 150yard games.

hard to form a good impression of his abilities when most of the team played so badly. Only about 10 players had a good season on this team.

offensive season too much. He still had 900 yards and a 16 yards/catch this year. And his decline in production has to be looked at alongside Manning's awful year. Mara said:

Quote:

Well, he did not have his best year, but he played hurt all year also. We had so many issues on offense. It’s hard to just pin anything on him. It was not his best year, but he competed hard. It’s shocking to me that he didn’t get into the end zone this year, but he still was out there trying to make plays and again we had a lot of problems on offense

Having said that, I think that they should let him go and use his cap space for a big, nasty offensive lineman or maybe a tight end. A comeback by Eli next year is more important than all the receivers combined. Another year for Eli like this one and the Giants no longer have a franchise quarterback and we are screwed for who knows how many years.

separation consistently. I don't know if Nicks is done or if he'll recover. That's something that I expect Coughlin, Reese and Mara will be discussing in the coming week.

Randle will be fine.

and how did they do this year?

Philly turned it around this year? But how will they do next year?

I don't want a yoyo team....build it from the ground up with a solid OL....I want the OL fixed so that we don't have to worry about it for years....Eli is our Qb....his window is starting to close....at least put a freakin' line in front of him.....

In comment 11425166 upstatenyg said:

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He didn't play well all year, he missed what was one of the most important games of the year at home against Dallas, where having him in may have changed the outcome.

Nicks didn't miss the game. He was there and ready to play. That old man benched him, hurting the whole team because he was pissed at Nicks for skipping practice on Wednesday to get a second opinion on an injury.

his 2nd season and made huge strides after the first. At the rate he is going he could easily fill Nicks' shoes. Can't say 'no way' based on what we saw, he could get even better

Don't forget in many cases it takes two years to develop WR skills in the nfl. He should be fine.

I think we may have no choice but to let him go and use the money elsewhere..

he probably will still get a nice contract.. and may play great moving forward..

however we drafted guys like Randle and Jernigan to have options.. Randle is the bigger guy and has made some nice strides.. he seems like the option the Giants would rely on to replace Nicks..

of course Cruz and Jernigan seem to both be best in the slot, which does complicate things if we wanted to go with those 3 as our top 3.. but Cruz has been successful on the outside as well.. Jernigan perhaps could be too..

but both these guys were drafted.. and Randle was drafted in the 2nd round.. we most likely did that with the intention of him hopefully starting one day.. and 2014 may be the time that happens..

as long as we shore up the offensive line and get a running game going too.. Randle and Cruz as our main 2 options most likely could still be very good..

I'd love to still draft a guy and/or sign an older vet to even a "1 year prove it deal" as it's called now.. and have insurance.. maybe even a 2 year contract..

We still need to add to the WR group this off-season though since we have no reliable backups or reserves.

Backup WRs that can play active special teams roles would be very valuable - punt return, gunners, etc.