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Raanan SL: FA Kevin Boothe part of the answer for O-line?

Defenderdawg : 1/8/2014 2:41 pm

"My belief is that Boothe played better than his PFF grades indicate. I've seen firsthand during my time in Philadelphia how disastrous a change at center can be for an offense. Snaps become difficult, stopping immediate pressure up the becomes a major problem, the simplest offensive function becomes a major question mark.

If anything, the Giants' offense actually functioned better with Boothe at center this season. The Giants' best passing game (Week 1 vs. Dallas) came with him at center. Their best running game (Week 12 vs. Dallas) came with him snapping the ball to Manning.

The Giants can definitely do worse than permanently moving Boothe to center. It's a decision they need to make this offseason with the free-agent lineman. And, right now, everything seems to be on the table..."

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put him in the mix at Center, or on the bench  
JonC : 1/8/2014 2:43 pm : link
We need upgrades at OG.
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/8/2014 2:43 pm : link
did alright, but for some reason he played like absolute crap in the last game against the Redskins.
As a backup, yes  
jeff57 : 1/8/2014 2:45 pm : link
RetroJint : 1/8/2014 2:46 pm : link
6th man utility but he needs to get in better shape .
I appreciate KB  
old man : 1/8/2014 2:46 pm : link
but just on those 'hanging snaps' to Eli in the shotgun(draw or not)we need a real center. Some of his snaps had more hang time the SW's punts.
He is a good utility player, and possibly would be a better player if he had good OL mates.
I think he is a solid  
AnishPatel : 1/8/2014 2:49 pm : link
backup who provides versatility. That's his value. I wouldn't want him as a starter especially if we can upgrade the OL.
For the vet minimum  
Jay on the Island : 1/8/2014 2:51 pm : link
he should be a backup guard/center. Sure the Giants can do worse at center that is a dumb statement but they can also do much better. I would be shocked if the Giants didn't bring in a new center either through free agency or high in the draft.
Bring him back as a decently paid backup.  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 1/8/2014 2:51 pm : link
Considering what he got last year, I doubt there will be clamoring for his services.
He is a backup only,  
BeerFridge : 1/8/2014 2:54 pm : link
His play and the market have shown this.
RE: Boothe  
BlueHurricane : 1/8/2014 2:58 pm : link
In comment 11443157 Eric from BBI said:
did alright, but for some reason he played like absolute crap in the last game against the Redskins.

You mean the game where had Dallas Reynolds playing next to him?
RE: Bring him back as a decently paid backup.  
BeerFridge : 1/8/2014 3:02 pm : link
In comment 11443186 Shockeyisthebest80 said:
Considering what he got last year, I doubt there will be clamoring for his services.

He was a UFA last year and came back on Vets minimum. Offer him the same as depth but his spot is definitely an opportunity for upgrade. I'd prefer they bring in another starting caliber player for that spot and let them battle it out.
Keep Boothe  
Blue Blood : 1/8/2014 3:04 pm : link
we cant rebuild the OL in one year.. Boothe is serviceable...
arcarsenal : 1/8/2014 3:04 pm : link
Boothe is a perfect utility guy. His versatility gives him value. I would prefer not to have to start him regularly but in the event of an injury, I would be perfectly fine bringing him in.

Ideally he either plays a few games while a rookie works in or learns the ropes a bit or he's the next man up if someone goes down.
yes, he's the perfect 6th guy. the problem is he's currently  
BeerFridge : 1/8/2014 3:05 pm : link
the second or third best guy.
AcidTest : 1/8/2014 3:07 pm : link
probably let him go, and in any other year we would. But we have to get rid of Diehl, Snee, and Baas, which would make Boothe the fourth lineman we release or don't resign. If the other parts of the OL were more stable, we'd feel better about letting Boothe go. The fact that they aren't is on Reese.
arcarsenal : 1/8/2014 3:10 pm : link
I would still want him back if the other spots were more stable. The odds of all 5 guys playing 16 games are slim. What the Eagles got this year was completely atypical. Depth is important and Boothe is good depth.

Obviously the problem is that as of now, the line is so devoid of talent that we'd be forced to start him.
If they think Baas has a a decent chance of rebounding...  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/8/2014 3:10 pm : link
...Boothe is an adequate plan B. If they decide to cut their losses on Baas, Boothe is still an adequate plan B, behind whomever they bring in to replace Baas. Either way, Boothe should not be plan A, except maybe as a one-year stopgap while they use the available cap space to fix the other two interior positions.

Good sixth man. Great practice squad find, seven years ago. Nice value on a qualifying vet-min deal. That's what he is.
stretch234 : 1/8/2014 3:11 pm : link
Outside of the pipe dream Mack, who is going nowhere, who is on this long list of available FA and draftees that are an upgrade of Boothe
There may not be a long list...  
Klaatu : 1/8/2014 3:23 pm : link
But there's a short list of free agent Centers (besides Mack) that's been discussed in a number of recent threads. Add to that the potential draftees (also discussed in some of the same threads), and I think the Giants would be better served moving on from the Boothes and Cordles of the world.
I'm hoping that they either sign a FA C or draft one high.  
yatqb : 1/8/2014 3:27 pm : link
Boothe is a fine backup at the minimum, but if we can get younger and more talented on the line and someone could beat him out for the spot that would be ideal.
stretch234 : 1/8/2014 3:32 pm : link
At G, yes I agree. At C the list is extremely thin and most are older than Boothe
RE: I'm hoping that they either sign a FA C or draft one high.  
FJ : 1/8/2014 3:35 pm : link
In comment 11443340 yatqb said:
Boothe is a fine backup at the minimum, but if we can get younger and more talented on the line and someone could beat him out for the spot that would be ideal.

If we draft a C high, then that probably means that we don't draft a G or T high, so we still need Boothe to play G anyway.
Even if Boothe is re-signed, he'd be what Parcells used to call a  
Optimus-NY : 1/8/2014 3:38 pm : link
"hold the fort" type of player until the cavalry arrives.
You mean like John Washington on the other side of  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2014 3:40 pm : link
the ball
John Washington held the fort for a pretty damned long time  
Optimus-NY : 1/8/2014 3:42 pm : link
especially in 1990 when Bill and Big Leonard had beef with his contract holdout to start the year that season. Washington was a mofo' against the run.
Like it or not, Boothe is still the best C on the roster.  
Victor in CT : 1/8/2014 3:47 pm : link
And he's cheap and versatile. That said, if he is still starting at G they have problems.
M in CT : 1/8/2014 3:48 pm : link
has shown he can be a good player in this league. he'll probably never make a Pro Bowl, but he can be a good starter for us...

provided we get someone competent to play center. the fact that an OG struggled on this team with Joe Schmoe playing C is not really surprising at all.
Klaatu : 1/8/2014 3:50 pm : link
Sure, the market is weak, but it was weak when we signed Baas, so it can be done. Brian de la Puente is 28, Ryan Wendell is 27. I'd take either one in a heartbeat if we decide to cut bait with Baas.

As for the draft, I'm hoping the Giants will use a premium pick on a C/OG. My preference is Weston Richburg (Colorado State).
Question is - who do you replace him with?  
PeterS : 1/8/2014 3:57 pm : link
You either hope that Baas and/or Cordle heal and stay healthy or that we find someone in the draft.

The FA market for offensive linemen is, well, offensive.
Boothe is nothing more than just another guy...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/8/2014 4:02 pm : link
clearly serviceable, some versatility which is nice, but nevertheless a JAG.

He is fine for a roster spot since he is relatively cheap, but he has as many bad plays as decent plays.

So stop with the "he is a good lineman in this league" nonsense.
Boothe is Locklear, Whittle, possibly Whimper-type  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2014 4:07 pm : link
valuable. Jack of all trades, master of none. You need guys like this who can step in and keep your line functioning without missing much of a beat. he, or someone like him, is a must sign for any OL imo
Boothe tested...  
Ryan : 1/8/2014 4:13 pm : link
...the market last year and it spoke to him loud and clear. He did nothing this year to increase his value as the '12 season was probably his best as a pro.

If he's back it will be at the same $ amount as this year so his status among our 9-10 best OL can be completely fluid.
You have to bring Boothe back  
mrvax : 1/8/2014 4:21 pm : link
near his current salary for 2014. Too many uncertainties on the Oline. Free agency and the draft have got to help but unless you have football ESP, you need to bring Boothe back.

Boothe could play center in 2014 if the Giants draft a good prospect. If no Boothe, you NEED to sign a free agent like the ones suggested in my Free Agent Oline thread.

The ability of Boothe to fill in at guard & center is very important. Baas will be a June 1 cut. He is too expensive, not very good and always injured.

My plan for the Oline is really simple  
nygiants1114 : 1/8/2014 4:36 pm : link
retire Snee and Diehl. Bring back Boothe on vet min and make Baas cut his base down to 1 million like they did to Diehl/Webster this past offseason, if he wants to play. Sign Geoff Schwartz to play RG for 3-4 million for 3-4 years (think Donald Thomas contract). i would also invite back Locklear on a vet min deal. Draft Kouandjio Can probably even move down and get a mid round pick and still get him. So OL would look like this Beatty-Mosley-Baas-Schawrtz-Pugh. Backups you have Koujandjio-Goodin-Boothe-Brewer- and Locklear as swing T and jumbo TE-also Koujandjio can fill that role. I think Schawrtz and Pugh would be locks-but you have depth and competition at all C,LG,LT. Boothe can hedge against Baas and Mosley. Koujandio hedge against Beatty. Locklear is excellent depth at T. Brewer gets permanently moved to RG and backs up Schawrtz. Goodin is the jack of all trades who can play all 5. Mosley also is excellent who can start at LG. Finally if you wanted to play CK- you could even move him to LG-big bodies at G next to Beatty/Pugh and outside the C with Schwartz.
Boothe looked terrible  
SLIM : 1/8/2014 5:18 pm : link
for about the last 3 games (it wasn't just Washington - it was at least Washington,Detroit, Seattle). Maybe he was injured and toughed it out but it is possible he could've been the worst lineman of ours for those games which says a lot.

If you expect him to start on the line next year, the bar is too low. He can sign for the min and back up a couple of spots but he is not a starting option.
I'd bring Boothe back  
GloryDayz : 1/8/2014 6:48 pm : link
Boothe can be a decent, at least serviceable, guy. The kind of guy who will not make people around him look better, but he wont make them look worse either.

Finding 2 good OG and an OC in 1 off season is not an easy job, specially with the Giants cap situation.

I think Boothe, a good FA pick up to play OG/OC, and a top OC/OG draft pick would be a good a manageable direction for the Giants.
Is Locklear going to try to play again in 2014?  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2014 6:55 pm : link
I wouldn't mind bringing him back to camp and seeing if he can still perform serviceably. He could be a solid backup in the event that Beatty either gets hurt or sucks ass again. That's assuming Pugh can handle LT.. I wouldn't put Locklear there.
I think brewer is gone  
fame56 : 1/8/2014 7:03 pm : link
he had more than a few chances this year to step up and didnt..too soft, like beatty probably is
I agree.....  
Doomster : 1/8/2014 8:44 pm : link
Boothe should be kept only as a backup, not as a starter....

If we are depending on Brewer/Mosely as backups, we are in trouble.....

No way Baas takes a huge cut.....

This OL is one colossal cluster f**k! Will Beatty be ready for the season? How will he play? I didn't think he played that well in 2012, and yet we gave him that huge he is questionable.....we need at least 3 OL, for starters.....possibly a draft pick and two free agents....even though Pugh played well last year, he still has a long way to go.....can't see two more rookies to be expected to start next year....

Then there is a matter of depth.....I don't like Brewer or Mosely....rather go with a couple vets at the minimum.....

As big a part of the OL is a TE....we need a two way player....the days of Pascoe, Robinson, and Donnell have to be over.....get someone who can play....

Eli had a bad year.....he had a bad year last year.....the OL is part of the blame.....a TE that Eli couldn't count on, also hurt....Nicks not showing up, hurt the whole offense...

And still another problem, is RB....Wilson/Brown just can't be counted on.....

Everything will have to fall into Reese's lap, for him to fix this offense in one season.....I'm not sure he can do it...
The main problem with Boothe at center, is that his snaps  
barens : 1/8/2014 10:10 pm : link
are high, and it seems to put Eli out of rythym a bit. I think he's a solid guard, and hopefully we can keep him.
RE: Boothe  
Tuckrule : 1/8/2014 10:16 pm : link
In comment 11443167 RetroJint said:
6th man utility but he needs to get in better shape .

Body type and getting into better shape are very different things.
lack of chemistry  
bc4life : 1/9/2014 5:57 am : link
may have impacted his play. and to my mind, he looked slower this year. slower foot movement, slower to react.

the OLine is in such poor shape though they should try to bring him back, and I doubt they will have to engage in a bidding war to keep him here
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