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Tom Quinn to return

micky : 1/9/2014 1:39 pm
..
Link - ( New Window )
he's done such a bang up job  
Jints in Carolina : 1/9/2014 1:41 pm : link
so why not
this team  
santacruzom : 1/9/2014 1:41 pm : link
is using the wrong definition of the word "special" here.
Lord knows he has earned it  
Chef : 1/9/2014 1:42 pm : link
.
He's sure getting mileage out of those nude pics  
Mad Mike : 1/9/2014 1:42 pm : link
of Coughlin/Tisch/Mara he undoubtedly has.
Now that is a fucking disgrace...  
Saos1n : 1/9/2014 1:42 pm : link
I'd rather have Gilbride back...
Just  
bigfrank612 : 1/9/2014 1:42 pm : link
Saw this and I'm going to fucking lose it!!! How many years do we have to be in the bottom of every statistic on special teams, how many busted coverages do we need to see, how many Tds do we need to give up before he's fired??? When does he have to answer?? It's unbelievable. Everyone wanted Gilbride out, which I agreed with to, but Quinn needed to go more then Gilbride IMO. It's unreal that he gets to keep his job...
I wanted to see Izzo to get a shot running special teams  
steve in ky : 1/9/2014 1:43 pm : link
.
so Sean Ryan  
Steve in South Jersey : 1/9/2014 1:44 pm : link
will be back too?
TC needs to go  
SHO'NUFF : 1/9/2014 1:45 pm : link
it's blatantly obvious now.... he's senile.
way  
blue42 : 1/9/2014 1:46 pm : link
to ruin my day.
i said this before preseason  
nygiants1114 : 1/9/2014 1:47 pm : link
if you are going to have this idiot as a coach-GET A REAL RETURNER-and get a some real gunners. Those two areas killed the Gmen. Get Leon Washington/Brandon Tate/Devin Hester this offseason and also draft a WR and CB in middle rounds who some expierence on specials gunning and are good at it. If you want to draft a high upside CB in 2nd round-Bradley Roby is a tremendous athlete who kills it at gunner.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/9/2014 1:47 pm : link
Exciting! Definitely warranted.
How?  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2014 1:48 pm : link
This clearly shows that Coughlin would have never gotten rid of Gilbride if he hadn't retired. How can you honestly look at Quinn's resume and say that he deserves to stay as special teams coach?
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 1/9/2014 1:48 pm : link
Wow.

Really.

I'm at a loss.
RE: Just  
Randy in CT : 1/9/2014 1:48 pm : link
In comment 11445534 bigfrank612 said:
Quote:
Saw this and I'm going to fucking lose it!!! How many years do we have to be in the bottom of every statistic on special teams, how many busted coverages do we need to see, how many Tds do we need to give up before he's fired??? When does he have to answer?? It's unbelievable. Everyone wanted Gilbride out, which I agreed with to, but Quinn needed to go more then Gilbride IMO. It's unreal that he gets to keep his job...
Apparently that just isn't the case and in the 2 previous years he was 10th and 15th according to the article.
He no doubt is either related to someone in the orginaization  
BlueHurricane : 1/9/2014 1:49 pm : link
Or has incriminating evidence against a higher up.

His unit if a joke. More of a joke than our offense was this year.
Quinn might be the worst coach Ive seen on the Giants  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 1/9/2014 1:50 pm : link
his squad is nothing less than incompetent.
Completely ridiculous.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/9/2014 1:52 pm : link
Tom Coughlin does not get to complain about special teams in his press conferences anymore.
Don't know, but I read by someone, forget whom  
micky : 1/9/2014 1:52 pm : link
that maybe making wholesale changes now says a lot about the extension of TC. But, who knows
Maybe  
old man : 1/9/2014 1:52 pm : link
we should sign every talented UDFA special teams player and give him a pool of players to work with, then he picks the best of 6 guys who are really good(work together well), plus 2-3 vets (not counting DeO and SW).
Maybe a PLAYER emerges from that pool...Tyree2?

Crazy idea, maybe; but every other thing he does fails, how bad can this idea be. We're gonna dump some bottom-feeder players anyway, so why not?
RE: RE: Just  
Randy in CT : 1/9/2014 1:53 pm : link
In comment 11445557 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11445534 bigfrank612 said:


Quote:


Saw this and I'm going to fucking lose it!!! How many years do we have to be in the bottom of every statistic on special teams, how many busted coverages do we need to see, how many Tds do we need to give up before he's fired??? When does he have to answer?? It's unbelievable. Everyone wanted Gilbride out, which I agreed with to, but Quinn needed to go more then Gilbride IMO. It's unreal that he gets to keep his job...

Apparently that just isn't the case and in the 2 previous years he was 10th and 15th according to the article.
It appears that I should have bolded parts of that quote. Though I wasn't a fan, perhaps I was wrong.
Gilbride "retires"  
ghost718 : 1/9/2014 1:55 pm : link
but Quinn and Fewell are staying.

That sounds about right
Obviously after their assessment  
Canton : 1/9/2014 1:56 pm : link
It was on the personnel and not the coach.
Thick, lustrous hair  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 1/9/2014 1:56 pm : link
is very important to TC.
Someone just asked Francessa to please ask  
BlueHurricane : 1/9/2014 1:56 pm : link
How Tom Quinn is being retained when he talks to Mara.

Unfortunately the subject quickly turned the offensive coordinator so I am not sure its going to stick in Francessa's head.
Randy  
bigfrank612 : 1/9/2014 1:57 pm : link
This guy does not deserve another year. He's been here 8 years about to be 9!!! Of those years, how many of then were you content and satisfied with our special teams? Our coverage has been horrible, we don't open up lanes. Wilson made him look good because the guy has track star speed. He's horrible and we need a new coach there. Everyone knows that.
Typical Mara style when it comes to coaching  
GmenDynasty : 1/9/2014 1:57 pm : link
wow just wow
Bold Ruler  
Steve in South Jersey : 1/9/2014 1:57 pm : link
worse than Ray Handley?
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 1/9/2014 1:58 pm : link
I'm convinced more than ever that the type of changes this team probably needs are only going to occur when heads roll from the GM to HC.

Tom Quinn returning is indefensible.
I look forward to more punt and kick returns run back for TD's  
Jints in Carolina : 1/9/2014 1:59 pm : link
Woo hoo! Go Team!
Boooooo  
illmatic : 1/9/2014 2:02 pm : link
.
RE: ...  
BlueHurricane : 1/9/2014 2:02 pm : link
In comment 11445600 SanFranGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I'm convinced more than ever that the type of changes this team probably needs are only going to occur when heads roll from the GM to HC.

Tom Quinn returning is indefensible.


This staff is leaning on two Superbowls in 7 years more than answering for missing the playoffs 4 times in 5 years. I can't say I can blame them but it is really alarming when things like this are taking place. I wanted TC back but I was sure we would be changing OC and ST coach. Now I am beginning to think TC is blinded by the success his staff/team has had. Too many instances of guys needing to be replaced at both team and coaching level and his unwillingness to do it.
Loyalty over winning  
Chris L. : 1/9/2014 2:02 pm : link
just what we need!!!!!
bigfrank, I have complained about Specials a lot also.  
Randy in CT : 1/9/2014 2:02 pm : link
I was surprised to see how well STs fared stats wise and I wonder how management is assessing his abilities.
While this sucks  
Josh in the City : 1/9/2014 2:05 pm : link
Let's be honest here. Special teams has been completely de-emphasized in today's NFL.
Read the bottom of the article  
RetroJint : 1/9/2014 2:05 pm : link
The injuries & the turnover at the bottom of the roster doomed specials. That's a fair appraisal. Westhoff said the same thing about the Jets. Want to cover punts like the Hawks do? Sure just get yourself seemingly 12 DBs who are all so big that you can't distinguish the corners from the safeties . That's how you win in the punt game. Jammers beat the gunners. Flip side Gunners whip the hammers. Win your battle. So much of what gets pigeon-holed as a problem of scheme or motivation is simply : win your personal battle.
Josh, you mean aside from  
Randy in CT : 1/9/2014 2:06 pm : link
the whole field position angle?
I really thought Quinn had to go.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/9/2014 2:06 pm : link
I'm disappointed in this.
Randy  
bigfrank612 : 1/9/2014 2:06 pm : link
If they think its personnel then they are just oblivious. TC has made Quinn use multiple starters on ST's for years. It's his coaching that is killing us. He doesn't get creative enough or find ways to open up lanes consistently. And I don't want to get started on how bad our coverage is especially in big spots. I'm literally at a loss for words. I really hope Mara or someone is asked why he was retained, cause I need to know.
Boy, I'd like to work for Tom Coughlin.  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 1/9/2014 2:06 pm : link
Bring him a cup of coffee every morning, and I'd be locked in for life.
RE: Bold Ruler  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 1/9/2014 2:07 pm : link
In comment 11445599 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
worse than Ray Handley?


Yeah I know, Voldemort was beyond reproach but he was dumped. Quinn can't get any worse and will never be let go. That's worse to me.
The specials have  
SanFranGiantsFan : 1/9/2014 2:08 pm : link
sucked for a large majority of his time here; it just wasn't last year or this year.

The Giants could have shown their fans that changes would be coming after a deceiving 7-9 season. Instead, we get Gilbride 'retiring' & Fewell staying.

What a joke.
Special Teams have been a joke here numerous times under his watch.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2014 2:08 pm : link
So, sure, why not bring him back. Coughlin's tie to loyalty is an absolute joke.
I'm not surprised at all..  
Tom from LI : 1/9/2014 2:13 pm : link
When he wasn't fired immediately at the end of the season.. I knew he would be back...The longer they take to evaluate the "problem" here the faster the bad taste in their mouth disappears.

That is just awful that Quinn was not held  
Jimmy Googs : 1/9/2014 2:13 pm : link
responsible for such a poor display of football his squads showed this season. And what makes it so egregious is that the mistakes and poor play was fairly wide-spread across all of his units.

The specials were embarrassing and a huge contributor to our ridiculously bad start to this season.







In Other News  
Trainmaster : 1/9/2014 2:15 pm : link
1) The Duke of Medina Sidonia returns as commander of the Spanish Armada
2) Gen Custer to return as commander of the 7th cavalry at Little Big Horn
3) General Paulus returns as commander of the 6th army at Stalingrad
Well thats sucks.  
AnishPatel : 1/9/2014 2:17 pm : link
How about Gilbride Jr.? His whole WR corps was a shit show. Does he come back too?
.  
Danny Kanell : 1/9/2014 2:17 pm : link
Giants being the Giants
I guess the special teams weren't broken  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 1/9/2014 2:19 pm : link
.
Tom Quinn engineers  
Exit 172 : 1/9/2014 2:19 pm : link
some of the best fair-catch punt returns you'll ever see!
The spirit of Larry MacDuff lives on!  
Greg from LI : 1/9/2014 2:21 pm : link
.
If the  
Arcanum : 1/9/2014 2:23 pm : link
Offense is broken, then special team, has to be on life support.
Tom Quinn will return  
Bill in UT : 1/9/2014 2:23 pm : link
Will that be punts, KOs or both
well Weatherford will have to start to learn  
Giants11 : 1/9/2014 2:23 pm : link
to kick the ball out of bounds more.
mara  
SBlue46 : 1/9/2014 2:24 pm : link
Has to be worse nfl owner..
He let's Tc coach out his contract
Basically. He says we need
Good players yet says reese
Does good job..He says offense
Is broken and brings in 4
No name coaches..One we
Already had..Quinn and Fewell
Back...Jerry Jones would
Have fired them all.
Hang on for another year.  
Killed the K-Gun : 1/9/2014 2:27 pm : link
TC's contract is over then.
Seems I am in the minority...  
rocco8112 : 1/9/2014 2:30 pm : link
...but do you guys really think that a special teams coach has that large of an impact on the performance of the unit?

The Giants special teams were horrid this year and I think that has more to do with the complete lack of depth on the roster than it does with the coaching.

I also do not agree with the point freely made in the thread that the Giants specials have stunk for a majority of TC's tenure, I do not have numbers to back it up but from my eyeball test we usually have solid to good special teams. Not to mention it was our specials who made the biggest play in the '11 NFC title game to send us to the Super Bowl.

It seems that everyone wants a scapegoat and the coach to be fired but is it really so hard to believe that the Giants have evaluated the talent they had on this whole roster and realized that it was the main reasons the specials were horrid this year.
SBlue46  
Jints in Carolina : 1/9/2014 2:31 pm : link
are you seriously comparing Mara to Jerry Jones?

My goodness I just don't know anymore.....
Bossman you are an idiot  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2014 2:31 pm : link
Jerry Jones would have fired them all? Like how he kept Jason Garrett despite missing the playoffs again or Monte Kiffin as DC despite having the worst ranked defense in football?
It seems I recall,  
oldog : 1/9/2014 2:33 pm : link
special teams winning a big playoff game against SF in the mud bowl a couple of years ago. Sometimes, Giants fans, you seem to be stampeded into the tunnel in developing your point of view.
ROTFL!  
jeff57 : 1/9/2014 2:33 pm : link
What a surprise!

Having photos goes a long way.
as mara eluded to..continuity is important  
micky : 1/9/2014 2:37 pm : link
.
This is a real concern ?  
Headhunter : 1/9/2014 2:38 pm : link
I'm not saying Quinn should stay but c'mon do you really think a ST coach should get you to type in Caps?
Coughlin probably sacrificed Gilbride to keep Quinn  
jeff57 : 1/9/2014 2:40 pm : link
Year in an year out their special teams suck balls. But Quinn is bullet proof.
RE: It seems I recall,  
Greg from LI : 1/9/2014 2:41 pm : link
In comment 11445760 oldog said:
Quote:
special teams winning a big playoff game against SF in the mud bowl a couple of years ago. Sometimes, Giants fans, you seem to be stampeded into the tunnel in developing your point of view.


Yes, I'm sure Lawrence Tynes owes everything to the peerless coaching of Tom Quinn.
Football Outsiders  
cosmicj : 1/9/2014 2:41 pm : link
Special Teams DVOA ranking by year for Giants:

2013 28th
2012 10th
2011 15th
2010 30th
2009 26th
2008 11th
the players  
Mr. Nickels : 1/9/2014 2:42 pm : link
must execute!
Our Specials were abysmal and the reasons are varied.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/9/2014 2:43 pm : link
They were also quite good under Quinn not too long ago as well...I don't care one way or the other(that he stays) but I have to believe that leading the league by a mile in lost games to injury(91), had to have an adverse effect on performance this year. I take it that this is the Giants' thinking
Yeah, that ball bouncing off of Kevin Williams' knee makes up  
jeff57 : 1/9/2014 2:43 pm : link
for all the pathetic punt returns, such as they are, and the shaky special team coverage. Year in and year out.
RE: Tom Quinn engineers  
jeff57 : 1/9/2014 2:44 pm : link
In comment 11445708 Exit 172 said:
Quote:
some of the best fair-catch punt returns you'll ever see!


Agree. That's the one thing he's good at.
Tynes,  
oldog : 1/9/2014 2:47 pm : link
and specials. You saw it Giant fans. (And Manningham, often said to be crazy by the tunnel dwellers)
RE: Seems I am in the minority...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/9/2014 2:48 pm : link
In comment 11445746 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
...but do you guys really think that a special teams coach has that large of an impact on the performance of the unit?


Rocco - 8 years with Quinn not having a large impact. We couldn't try to see if somebody else could possibly have an impact?
LOL  
Rflairr : 1/9/2014 2:52 pm : link
This is the one guy, I thought there was no chance of him coming back. Just goes to show, there won't be any real changes until Tommy retires. Go ahead and save us the dog and pony show and just hire Sullivan
Whoever  
bigfrank612 : 1/9/2014 2:53 pm : link
Thinks that the reason we won two superbowls or got to them was because of special teams is truly misguided. In the SF game we got lucky cause the one fumble recovery came off the returners leg and he didn't even know it hit him. The other was a good play by Williams/Thomas. It's not like we had been getting great field position all game or that we were covering like animals. He has been horrible. Tynes kicking a FG doesn't count towards him either. His job is to come up with ways to open up holes in the return game, ways to block punts, and ways to cover. We don't do any of that.
Think about this:  
mrvax : 1/9/2014 2:53 pm : link
When a ST coach does a good job, you should see the team end up in the top % as far as starting field position goes. The ST coach should also make players aware of the opponents tendencies and to watch out for trick plays.

Beyond that, it seems to me to be on the players to make the plays. Am I wrong in thinking that horrific break downs that result in an occasional punt return/kick off for a TD to be the players' fault?

Maybe 1 player messed up really bad. You have to look at the years worth of ST play to grade the coach. Seems to me that the occasional blown play is player-related.
....  
Klaatu : 1/9/2014 3:00 pm : link


Can't touch this! Da Da Da Da...Da Da...Da Da. Can't touch this!
RE: Seems I am in the minority...  
snumber6 : 1/9/2014 3:02 pm : link
In comment 11445746 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
...but do you guys really think that a special teams coach has that large of an impact on the performance of the unit?

The Giants special teams were horrid this year and I think that has more to do with the complete lack of depth on the roster than it does with the coaching.

I also do not agree with the point freely made in the thread that the Giants specials have stunk for a majority of TC's tenure, I do not have numbers to back it up but from my eyeball test we usually have solid to good special teams. Not to mention it was our specials who made the biggest play in the '11 NFC title game to send us to the Super Bowl.

It seems that everyone wants a scapegoat and the coach to be fired but is it really so hard to believe that the Giants have evaluated the talent they had on this whole roster and realized that it was the main reasons the specials were horrid this year.


Good analysis ... I feel Quinn was evaluated on many other areas other than performance ... how fast the FG team gets out there ... are the teams ready to go and knowledgable ... how well players hold their lines on returns and fixes them when they screw up ... etc.

I have no idea how well he graded ... I don't even know exactly how to ... but looking at it from only a fan's perspective isn't really right ...

Now the offense - we all can point to a lot ... delays of game ... wrong packages on the field ... poor situaltional play calling ... all these errors were part of Gilbride's evaluation ... and not a function of the talent ... maybe he graded poorly ...
Teflon Tom does have model-quality hair  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/9/2014 3:10 pm : link
.
Someone please post a gif from the packers game  
ligmen : 1/9/2014 3:11 pm : link
of Quinn "explaining" to Coughlin the defending of the fake punt by Green Bay. So obvious he had no clue it was coming and was talking out his ass.

I look at the fumble in the 2011 NFCC game  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/9/2014 3:12 pm : link
as a great individual effort play.

Williams forcing that fumble has as much to do with coaching as the David Tyree play.
specials teams........  
BillKo : 1/9/2014 3:12 pm : link
is always hard to evaluate from a coaching perspective.

I mean, how many different "plays" do you have? Quinn can only really draw up the play, the players have to execute.

And while that's true on offense and defense, there is so much more strategy on those sides of the ball.

I think it comes down to having specialty players (good kicker/punter, elsusive return man) and really having athletic guys who have the desire to execute and tackle.

I don't think that's really on Quinn.
The 2011  
oldog : 1/9/2014 3:17 pm : link
game was a specials battle with neither offense able to prevail. It was back and fourth for a lengthy period. We won. Yes, some highlights, but backed up by a lot of solid play. You could look it up.
RE: Football Outsiders  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 1/9/2014 3:17 pm : link
In comment 11445791 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Special Teams DVOA ranking by year for Giants:

2013 28th
2012 10th
2011 15th
2010 30th
2009 26th
2008 11th


In two of those years the results were supported by the play of an individual - Weatherford in 2011 and Wilson in 2012.
RE: Think about this:  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/9/2014 3:18 pm : link
In comment 11445832 mrvax said:
Quote:
When a ST coach does a good job, you should see the team end up in the top % as far as starting field position goes. The ST coach should also make players aware of the opponents tendencies and to watch out for trick plays.

Beyond that, it seems to me to be on the players to make the plays. Am I wrong in thinking that horrific break downs that result in an occasional punt return/kick off for a TD to be the players' fault?

Maybe 1 player messed up really bad. You have to look at the years worth of ST play to grade the coach. Seems to me that the occasional blown play is player-related.


Agreed.

I used to be down on Quinn, especially early in the season when the unit was a disaster. But then I realized that the talent on the roster as whole was bad, which in turn made the special teams unit as terrible as it was.

According to Football Outsiders, here was how the Giants ranked the last 4 seasons:

2010: 30th
2011: 15th (Super Bowl win)
2012: 10th
2013: 28th

The case could have been made to get rid of Quinn after the 2010 season. But the next two seasons the unit improved dramatically. This is why I have a difficult time making the case that after two years where they jumped from 30th to 10th, he suddenly became dumb and forgot how to coach.

I am now a Quinn supporter.
specials suck when you don't have quality depth. you don't have  
Victor in CT : 1/9/2014 3:19 pm : link
quality depth when your middle round drafts turn up shit for 5 years in a row. that's where the foot soldiers come from.
Thats right BBI Fo Mo years..  
JCin332 : 1/9/2014 3:22 pm : link
look at our players....  
BillKo : 1/9/2014 3:23 pm : link
Brown is a very average kicker. Surely Quinn isn't going to make a 38 yr old kicker better.

Weatherford - whatever his issues were, he needs to figure it out. Can Quinn recommend something in his technique? Surely, but you either figure it out or you're placed as a punter.

Return men - underwhelming.

Backup players on roster - again underwhelming, and these are the guys who make up the majority of your unit. I don't see any Renee Thompson's playing gunner.

The special teams is more an idictment on those choosing player personnel rather than Quinn IMO.
I think most of us here  
mrvax : 1/9/2014 3:25 pm : link
jumped to conclusions in wanting Quinn's head on a platter. We really have to do better in the later rounds of the draft to look for good ST players. Even UFA's that are good on ST's should be brought to camp.
Coughlin  
CromartiesKid21 : 1/9/2014 3:40 pm : link
is blindly faithful to his Irish brethern or its usually the Boston College ties
dear Tretro  
BigBlueCane : 1/9/2014 3:45 pm : link
and on who's evaluation was the bottom part of the roster such a disaster?

Maybe the guy who decides which guys can play Special teams?
Defend Quinn all you want but our guys were clueless  
Jimmy Googs : 1/9/2014 3:51 pm : link
out there playing special teams this season. And don't just blame depth because we often played Starters on many of the squads as well. There were far too many mental errors, poor judgments, and recklessly executed plays to believe that meaningful coaching exists on the Giants ST.

I will even give Quinn a pass on our own punt and KO returns since he doesn't not have anybody elusive to rely upon.

But our coverage teams are a complete mess; Weatherford regressed on him; gunners continually going out of bounds or running out of control passed their returners; snaps flying over our punter; players jumping offside on opposing field goal attempts; no awareness of the ball on short punts from the opposition; lack of judgment on fair catches near our own goal line; poor awareness of trick plays made by opposition....

did I miss anything?

I thought Kyle Bosworth  
Bill in UT : 1/9/2014 3:55 pm : link
was a good ST player. It's just that we were too strong at LB pre-Beason to keep him
If this isn't full proof that this organization  
GmenDynasty : 1/9/2014 4:07 pm : link
is blindly loyal then I don't know what is. Truly amazing.
If True  
Percy : 1/9/2014 4:14 pm : link
Has to be the hair thing, as noted above. No other possible explanation.
A mick with BC ties stays on the staff  
SB : 1/9/2014 4:18 pm : link
... I'm shocked.

Seriously though, I think management is giving Coughlin one more year to get back to the playoffs and they don't want to sign contracts for new guys that may be gone if/when a new regime comes in.
2012: 10th  
giantfanboy : 1/9/2014 4:29 pm : link
the only reason we were 10th in 2012 was because David Wilson had a decent year returning kickoffs - if you take that away the rest of the ST units stunk .

when was the last time the giants returned a punt of TD ( dominick hixon
in 2009)

meanwhile this year we gave up 2 punt returns for tds this year
lack of depth is not an excuse . every team fields the same number of players

the Vikings were 5 -10 but had the 6 th best unit according to Football outsiders

it is about coaching and this coach has been a failure almost his entire time here


Agree with Rflairr..  
prdave73 : 1/9/2014 4:31 pm : link
Unfortunately things won't really change much as long as Coughlin is around.. Main reason I really wanted him gone as well. Good coach but to stubborn and loyal in his ways. Oh well 1 more year..
sblue46  
Blue Bleeder : 1/9/2014 4:34 pm : link
u can't be serious ? Your the type of fan that will never be happy.
I don't buy the talk that the Giants  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2014 4:35 pm : link
special teams lack talent. Paysinger, DeOssie, Herzlich, Bradford, Hill, Moore, and Mundy are good special teamers and Brown and Weatherford are both solid.
Blue Bleeder  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2014 4:36 pm : link
that's his thing its not worth wasting your time on him.
Let's see, BBI thinks Quinn is the problem with special teams  
JoefromPa : 1/9/2014 4:42 pm : link
and should be gone.

Tom Coughlin, a future Hall of Fame coach thinks enough of the guy to bring him back.

I don't know, maybe I just don't get it, but isn't it possible Coughlin knows circumstances surrounding the poor special teams play that you don't?

On the one hand you guys kill Reese for his lousy drafts, especially the middle picks. And on the other hand you kill the coaches because their units don't perform will with the limited talent.

Go Figure
This is a major, major, major Aw Shit.  
Red Dog : 1/9/2014 4:53 pm : link
Quinn is not an effective special teams coach.

His units give up too many big plays and don't make enough big plays for their own team. And sometimes they get caught with their pants down (not ready for fakes or on-sides kicks) which should never happen to a pro team. This crap has been going on for several years now.

His players do not appear to be well coached as evidenced by their lack of proper procedures like breaking down and getting into position to tackle on kick coverage. And they certainly aren't very effective in blocking for kick and punt returns. Even Wilson's TD return should have been called back.

Granted Quinn hasn't had the best players to work with, but neither do most of the other special teams coaches around the league. At most they are going to get a very few guys beyond the kickers and LS who are special teams specialists.

This is another lost opportunity to make a significant change in what is becoming one of the least competitive teams in the entire NFL.

can you imagine the mind of someone who sights Jerry Jones  
Victor in CT : 1/9/2014 4:57 pm : link
as a model for ownership?
STs is mainly the bottom 1/3rd of your roster  
Kyle : 1/9/2014 5:46 pm : link
2010 was inexcusably bad.

This year, arguably, Quinn could get a pass because the bottom of the roster was just awful.
.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/9/2014 5:49 pm : link
Boy if only Coughlin, Reeses and Mara see  
Headhunter : 1/9/2014 6:24 pm : link
in Quinn what BBI sees
Looking A Lot Like 1996  
Arkbach : 1/9/2014 6:28 pm : link
Lame duck coach keeping the same old coaches. I expect Sullivan to be back.
Players Play,  
Rory : 1/9/2014 6:31 pm : link
Coaches Coach.

If you dont have the players then how do you expect to be successful.

I trust this team understands its short-comings this year and will make the best decisions to dramatically improve for next season.

Or we can be the Redskins and just fire everyone every 2 years?
Just made  
Bleedin Blue : 1/9/2014 6:31 pm : link
my F$%king day! Another season of ineptitude from the special teams!
This is why it was time to clean house  
mikecf2 : 1/9/2014 6:33 pm : link
it was time - now its gonna be another year of holding your breath every time we punt the ball. This is bs
.....  
Micko : 1/9/2014 6:58 pm : link
this thread is hilarious. it's the f-in special teams coach! get a life ladies and gentleman.
RE: .....  
jeff57 : 1/9/2014 7:05 pm : link
In comment 11446390 Micko said:
Quote:
this thread is hilarious. it's the f-in special teams coach! get a life ladies and gentleman.


Giants apparently have the same attitude.
I agree with mikecf2  
Red Dog : 1/9/2014 7:07 pm : link
This off-season was the time to clean house and now it is pretty clear that it is not going to happen.

Welcome to the cellar of the NFL.
amazing  
sphinx : 1/9/2014 7:14 pm : link
Bart Hubbuch ‏@HubbuchNYP 38m
The Seahawks have allowed only 82 yards in punt returns THE ENTIRE SEASON. That is amazing.

RE: 2012: 10th  
Optimus-NY : 1/9/2014 7:40 pm : link
In comment 11446174 giantfanboy said:
Quote:
the only reason we were 10th in 2012 was because David Wilson had a decent year returning kickoffs - if you take that away the rest of the ST units stunk .

when was the last time the giants returned a punt of TD ( dominick hixon
in 2009)

meanwhile this year we gave up 2 punt returns for tds this year
lack of depth is not an excuse . every team fields the same number of players

the Vikings were 5 -10 but had the 6 th best unit according to Football outsiders

it is about coaching and this coach has been a failure almost his entire time here



PREACH brutha! PREACH!
RE: amazing  
HomerJones45 : 1/9/2014 7:42 pm : link
In comment 11446408 sphinx said:
Quote:
Bart Hubbuch ‏@HubbuchNYP 38m
The Seahawks have allowed only 82 yards in punt returns THE ENTIRE SEASON. That is amazing.


Yes, you can have a very deep roster when your qb counts for under $1,000,000 against the cap.

Lloyd Christmas is a Giants fan.  
Optimus-NY : 1/9/2014 7:47 pm : link
Here's his reaction to the return of "the Mighty Quinn"...
Wilson is a 3rd round pick  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2014 7:48 pm : link
still on his rookie contract. Wait until they have to pay up for him.
Really Dumbass?  
CromartiesKid21 : 1/9/2014 7:48 pm : link
Quote:
this thread is hilarious. it's the f-in special teams coach! get a life ladies and gentleman.


Yes I care about the other 1/3 facet of the game that wins football games?
RE: Wilson is a 3rd round pick  
HomerJones45 : 1/9/2014 7:50 pm : link
In comment 11446437 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
still on his rookie contract. Wait until they have to pay up for him.


It would be nice to have some cap space when Seattle has to pay Wilson and SF has to pay Kaepernik. There is going to be some serious talent leaving those teams.
It really is amazing they are bringing Quinn back.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2014 7:51 pm : link
The extreme loyalty shit is sickening.
you cant  
nygiants1114 : 1/9/2014 8:03 pm : link
explain the constant garbage...
if he would just coach his gunners to decelerate 10 yards before  
gtt350 : 1/9/2014 8:09 pm : link
impact our 1st and 2nd guy won't over run the play. makes me crazy
Just wonderful  
Paulie Walnuts : 1/9/2014 8:31 pm : link
holy shit  
TexasGmenFan : 1/9/2014 8:45 pm : link
what in the wide wide world of sports does this guy need to do to get fired?

on a sidenote, actually shocked no one posted the michael scott "no no no nooooooooooo" gif yet
Maybe they are grooming Quinn  
smshmth8690 : 1/9/2014 8:52 pm : link
to be TC's eventual replacement.
Your special teams are only as good as your backs ups!!!!  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 1/9/2014 8:54 pm : link
The bottom of the roster was garbage.... You can't shine shit...

Quinn didn't coach guys to not stay in their lanes or coach them to block in the back all the time.

Randal was a horrible PR but what else did they have.?

KR is becoming less and less with all the strong legs ...

We'Ve had good specials in the past under him... It's NOT the coach
Having Tom Quinn is like appointing a Supreme Court Judge...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/9/2014 9:12 pm : link
the guy has to die of old age to lose his job.

Anybody who thinks special teams don't make a difference in this league is just crazy. Crucial for field position, momentum and big plays.

And for a team that seems to hover around .500 every year with minimal contributions from special teams, my advice would be to invest more time & energy into this facet of the game as it may make the difference in getting to the playoffs more often than just once in the past 5 years.



Because since Dave Megget we haven't had a  
Headhunter : 1/9/2014 9:33 pm : link
Punt Returner that lasted more than a season? Our best Kickoff Returner was what's his name again, you know the guy the League wouldn't kick it to. Exactly what is it that Quinn does or doesn't do that gets your panties so wadded up?
The Giants, on average,  
sphinx : 1/9/2014 9:37 pm : link
were minus a little over 25 yards a game in punt returns in 2013 as compared to their opponents.

Tell me about the great gunner on the punt team  
Headhunter : 1/9/2014 9:43 pm : link
or that guy that blows up the wedge on kickoffs that causes opposing ST coaches to game plan against him.
RE: Someone please post a gif from the packers game  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/9/2014 9:43 pm : link
In comment 11445913 ligmen said:
Quote:
of Quinn "explaining" to Coughlin the defending of the fake punt by Green Bay. So obvious he had no clue it was coming and was talking out his ass.


This one?



My favorite one from this season came after the punt return TD by McCluster in Kansas City to break the game open.

I'd like to see us have a good PR and KR  
chris r : 1/9/2014 10:44 pm : link
in the same season. We haven't since Hixon.
That KC game was a disaster  
Neverend : 1/9/2014 10:49 pm : link
don't forget the fact that his special teams unit lined up 7 guys on one side of the formation (the call that should have been made in the chargers chiefs finale game), a new rule added to the NFL last year

That was fucking bullshit. Quinn should have learned. It would have been 20-7 Kansas city with 9 minutes left in the game.

I can give Quinn a break for damontre moore's offside penalties I guess
I envision ownership telling Coughlin  
chris r : 1/9/2014 11:15 pm : link
"OK, you get Quinn but we get Gilbride".
The worst thing in sports is loyalty  
BestFeature : 1/10/2014 12:14 am : link
Loyalty means you're representing the other coaches' interests and not your team's. It's disgusting.
RE: .....  
Bleedin Blue : 1/10/2014 12:23 am : link
In comment 11446390 Micko said:
Quote:
this thread is hilarious. it's the f-in special teams coach! get a life ladies and gentleman.


is this sarcasm or are you for real? you win and lose games due to special teams play!
SB  
Goin Deep : 1/10/2014 12:51 am : link
I'm a "MICK' and proud of it!
You'd be wise to watch your ethnic slurs.
.....  
Micko : 1/10/2014 12:56 am : link
Really, special teams is important? You don't say. It's also important to have some level of balance in your life to avoid over-dramatizing the retention of a coach who has been strapped w/ shitty depth.
he's like Rasputin  
lalalalala : 1/10/2014 1:01 am : link
.
I have defended Quinn in the past  
oipolloi : 1/10/2014 1:52 am : link
because fans have a tendency to dwell on singularly negative events, such as the Desean Jackson PR, and not look at the overall record

I was wrong. This guy is not a good coach. And I think the lack of accountability on the coaching staff and front office is a bad sign.
Sorry  
nyynyg : 1/10/2014 4:43 am : link
This whole we have bad backups excuse is crap. At some point you have to look at coaching. These are professional football players out there through the 53. There is absolutely no reason our ST should be this bad all the time.

But on this, really blame should be set right at the feet of TC. Yet another reason why I think not making the head coaching change is foolish.
RE: Agree with Rflairr..  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/10/2014 8:00 am : link
In comment 11446183 prdave73 said:
Quote:
Unfortunately things won't really change much as long as Coughlin is around.. Main reason I really wanted him gone as well. Good coach but to stubborn and loyal in his ways. Oh well 1 more year..


Exactly micky. Glibride retired this year rather than being fired next year. They're all gone once TC is done.
I don't see too many punts blocked  
Headhunter : 1/10/2014 8:23 am : link
of FG's blocked. I don't see the punt team all running left as the punt returner runs right. I don't see a punt returner that is a threat and since Wilson went down a KO returner that scares anyone. I do a lot of guys getting blocked on returns, I see missed tackles. I Do Not Care if Quinn is fired after I hit the send button, but some of can't admit that we have mediocre players on Specials and no one who is special
Headhunter  
nyynyg : 1/10/2014 8:27 am : link
I don't disagree that we do not have a Tyree (early days) or a Myron Gyton out there but after five years, you have to figure you find something that works pretty reliably. We can't find 11 guys, seriously? C'mon now, we are not Rutgers being asked to the the NFL every year.

I happen to be of the mind that you could give Quinn his choice of the ENTIRE roster, the ENTIRE roster, any starter he wants and if you made me bet, I don't think we would see a material difference.
going to take years to transistion  
Paulie Walnuts : 1/10/2014 8:36 am : link
coaches

to be honest

after Gilbride leaving, I doubt any other major coaches go, too much change in one season

also Reese busting on so many draft picks has left the cupboard bare for ST's
I don't give a fig about Quinn  
Headhunter : 1/10/2014 8:36 am : link
I don't care if he goes, but there are some drama queens here that shift their attention from Killdrive to Quinn as their whipping boy. If the Giants think he is getting the job done then they have to live with that if it blows up in their faces. I think the problems aren't with coaches or schemes, I think the bottom of the roster is filled with mediocrity and a couple of injuries exposes that weakness
Giants are a combined 3 games over .500 for the past 5 years  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2014 8:56 am : link
so our entire roster has been fairly mediocre for a while.

That being said, outside of having David Wilson go off on KO returns last season, the Special Teams performance has been much less than mediocre over that same time period.

A change in ST coordinators to see if things improve would not have been the worst thing the Giants could try in order to get better.



Maybe  
Headhunter : 1/10/2014 8:58 am : link
is still like some dynamic players on Specials that actually scare the other teams
Some dynamic players on offense and defense  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2014 9:04 am : link
wouldn't hurt either.
Don't know if Quinn should stay or not but seriously our return  
Blue21 : 1/10/2014 9:05 am : link
game sucks. We must lead the league in fair catches on punts.It seems when Randall catches one for a return he hesitates then steps into a tackler. There is no elusiveness or speed on our return game. And Cox is the best we can do for KO's? Seriously? A 7th round pick who shouldn't and wouldn't be on any teams NFL roster but the Giants. Wilson's injury was a setback. And if he returns IMO returns should be his first priority.He may never be the RB we wanted but he should be a very potent return man.
As much as I HATE that they are bringing him back  
andrew_nyg : 1/10/2014 9:12 am : link
the one point for me which stands out is that we didn't have the horses to win in the other two phases of the team, so why should we believe he had them for specials?

I still wanted him gone...I just hope the above proves to be true.
RE: Don't know if Quinn should stay or not but seriously our return  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/10/2014 9:41 am : link
In comment 11446999 Blue21 said:
Quote:
game sucks. We must lead the league in fair catches on punts.It seems when Randall catches one for a return he hesitates then steps into a tackler. There is no elusiveness or speed on our return game. And Cox is the best we can do for KO's? Seriously? A 7th round pick who shouldn't and wouldn't be on any teams NFL roster but the Giants. Wilson's injury was a setback. And if he returns IMO returns should be his first priority.He may never be the RB we wanted but he should be a very potent return man.


Let have a discussion about this.

Are you saying that the ST coach is the reason the Giants do not have a reasonable (I would sign up for league average myself) punt return game?

The way it has been discussed from the coach (Coughlin) in stories over the years in addition to his own words, Coughlin would rather have "ball security" over a guy that can take a punt and return it 20 or 30 yards, who may make the occasional fumble or be reckless, try to make something out of nothing and wind up losing yardage.

Now, this can work if you had the offense the Giants had over the last few years prior to this season. The theory being that as long as the returned doesn't screw up, let's just give to the offense and let them do their thing.

Punt and kick returning is a very unique skill. You can't "coach it up." There is a reason only certain guys have been able to do it. Remember Willie Ponder?

For whatever reason, Coughlin has not stressed attempting to get points out of that specific position even before the kickoffs were moved up and touchbacks became the norm.

The coach has to believe in it before serious change is made.



RE: Giants are a combined 3 games over .500 for the past 5 years  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/10/2014 10:00 am : link
In comment 11446980 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
so our entire roster has been fairly mediocre for a while.

That being said, outside of having David Wilson go off on KO returns last season, the Special Teams performance has been much less than mediocre over that same time period.

A change in ST coordinators to see if things improve would not have been the worst thing the Giants could try in order to get better.


If the roster has been mediocre as a whole as suggested, why should the special teams have been good?

I would guess that the TC logic on Punt Returners  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2014 10:02 am : link
of I like ball security over big play is more of default position because the Giants never really had/got/developed anybody that could get the big play. In fact, you could argue we have pain-stakenly struggled in just finding somebody who can do the ball security stuff each season, so even the idea of getting meaningful yards out of them was almost unfathomable.

This is like the Giant mantra that they don't value Linebackers enough to invest heavily in them. When it is more like they don't have anybody good at that position so they deflate it in discussing their defensive strategy.
RE: RE: Giants are a combined 3 games over .500 for the past 5 years  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2014 10:04 am : link
In comment 11447129 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 11446980 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


so our entire roster has been fairly mediocre for a while.

That being said, outside of having David Wilson go off on KO returns last season, the Special Teams performance has been much less than mediocre over that same time period.

A change in ST coordinators to see if things improve would not have been the worst thing the Giants could try in order to get better.



If the roster has been mediocre as a whole as suggested, why should the special teams have been good?


The point is that the ST have not even been consistently mediocre. Good is way out in the distance.
time to revisit the correlation vs attribution discussion:  
alligatorpie : 1/10/2014 10:16 am : link
Good hair and a proper corporate haircut

(factored over)

crappy coaches who keep jobs

as opposed to

Baldies, shorties, and guys who wear hoodies

(factored over)

X

translation for the nimby's  
alligatorpie : 1/10/2014 10:20 am : link
( the 'not it my back yard' ers)

this organisation could use an influx of freaks, geeks, short people, fatties, anti-socialites, and so forth.

'social cohesion' and 'our type of people' can only take a task so far, and we have a major task ahead of us.
RE: RE: RE: Giants are a combined 3 games over .500 for the past 5 years  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/10/2014 10:39 am : link
In comment 11447143 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
The point is that the ST have not even been consistently mediocre. Good is way out in the distance.


But they went from 30th in 2010 to 15th in 2011 to 10th in 2012.

Wilson wasn't on the team in 2011. So what can explain the drastic improvement from the previous year?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants are a combined 3 games over .500 for the past 5 years  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2014 1:35 pm : link
In comment 11447265 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 11447143 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


The point is that the ST have not even been consistently mediocre. Good is way out in the distance.



But they went from 30th in 2010 to 15th in 2011 to 10th in 2012.

Wilson wasn't on the team in 2011. So what can explain the drastic improvement from the previous year?


Getting rid of Matt Dodge for Weatherford. Dodge was a trainwreck in 2010.

Why do you all have man-crushes for Tom Quinn? :)
RE: .....  
Bleedin Blue : 1/10/2014 1:46 pm : link
In comment 11446831 Micko said:
Quote:
Really, special teams is important? You don't say. It's also important to have some level of balance in your life to avoid over-dramatizing the retention of a coach who has been strapped w/ shitty depth.


Dude, having an opinion on a team I root for many years does not equate to you accusing anyone of over dramatizing the retention of a coach. Thank you Tony Robbins!
RE: I don't give a fig about Quinn  
Bleedin Blue : 1/10/2014 1:51 pm : link
In comment 11446944 Headhunter said:
Quote:
I don't care if he goes, but there are some drama queens here that shift their attention from Killdrive to Quinn as their whipping boy. If the Giants think he is getting the job done then they have to live with that if it blows up in their faces. I think the problems aren't with coaches or schemes, I think the bottom of the roster is filled with mediocrity and a couple of injuries exposes that weakness


Headhunter, agree we have a lack of personnel on specials, but there are many times in games where we are just out of place, not maintaining lanes and that's on coaching.
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