just heard it on the fan. He gave fake items to even steiner sports where he an exclusive deal. Fake items sent to the football hall of fame. Equipment managers were involved and an outside dry cleaner who was doctoring helmets and jerseys for Eli and the giants.
If eli is involved, which it appears he is at the moment,
If this Inselberg guy has the evidence to back this claim up, the team will get a huge black eye. I'm withholding judgement but I can see Eli doing something like this because of his sense of humor. God knows he doesn't need the extra money.
Eli would need to do that. Unless he wanted the items in question himself. Like they said on the show this could just be Joe Skiba and his staff trying to make extra cash. Either way IT'S GOING DOWN!!!!
Email...is the worst fake email I have ever read....
It also claimed this was happening in 2000, 2001....what's that got to do with manning?
This stinks of bull shit...One of the classier teams and classier players who always seem to say and do the right thing has been forging collectable s for years?
you hope that this story won't have legs (douches like Boomer and Carton would love to jump on it to give the Giants and Manning a black eye). Selfishly, Joe is a friend to BBI so you hate to see his, and his brother's name dragged through the mud here and mixed up.
However, if this story does have any truth, the bigger ramifications are in the whole sports memorabilia industry, which (I haven't done the research) I imagine is a multi-billion dolllar industry as people are spending thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on items they believe to be authentic.
Either this sheds light on the business that this industry doesn't want shed, and if it is true, I would think that the Giants and Manning wouldn't be the first or only ones to do it and it becomes a larger story. Or this guy is fraud and he's in drowning man syndrome and looking to take others down to keep himself out of trouble.
I think it will be very hard to take these items in question and prove in court that they are fakes. Then on top of that, you'd have to prove who made the fakes. Additionally you'd have to show the person who made them did so for fraudulent purposes and not merely for personal collection.
Going to be very tough to win this one but in any case, the team, Eli and others will look bad. Maybe as bad as the Belichick cheating incidents.
You are missing the point. No one is saying they aren't real helmets and jerseys. The claim is that they're being passed off as game worn when they're not. Perhaps, in the case of a Super Bowl jersey, a patch was added.
the Giant equipment manager *may* be involved but I hardly think it would go up to Eli or the Mara's as his suit alleges. How would Manning even know which jersey he wore in a game? At the end of the game he probably puts in the bottom of his locker, or asks someone to save it. You really think he is running around picking up his jersey after a Superbowl or a playoff game? With forty microphones in his face?
Among the many scathing claims that could tarnish Eli Mannings squeaky-clean image is an alleged 2005 incident in which he allegedly asked Joe Skiba for an old, beat-up game helmet and then took the headgear, signed it, and put it on the market, falsely claiming that it was a helmet used during his 2004 rookie season.
What exactly does "put it on the market" mean? Hard to see Eli being motivated to this, even if he wanted to keep his stuff, this seems like pure greed.
Insenberg says he knew the Giants and Manning were churning out fake, but believed he was getting legit products because of his close relationship with the team.
If that is true, why wouldn't the feds still prosecut him? If he knew of the fakes, and sold them himself, then he's engaging in criminal activity. In addition, why wouldn't the prosecutors interview the Giants and Eli, or even prosecut them?
Sounds like a nice story, but there are too many apparent inconsistencies here. Allege what you want in a lawsuit. Good luck proving it. As a lawyer, I see leaps of faith in allegations all the time, then see it all fall apart when they are put to their proof.
I'll never get involved in game used/worn memorabilia. You really have absolutely no idea what you're getting, and a piece of paper that deems it "authentic" might as well come with a piece of paper that deems THAT certificate authentic...and so on.
He says he knew the Giants were making fakes, but his were somehow legit. Why would a prosecutor buy that? What made the stuff he got special that he knew it was real while others were fake?
Worn in a game. Couldn't you take any helmet, wear it for one or two snaps, and then call it "game worn"? Same for a jersey. You'd think if you wanted to save your own game worn items, you'd find a way to create a few more for sale.
You are missing the point. No one is saying they aren't real helmets and jerseys. The claim is that they're being passed off as game worn when they're not. Perhaps, in the case of a Super Bowl jersey, a patch was added.
Pete, I do understand what they claim. To fake a game worn, just take a new "real" jersey and give it a little stain or hole. I just think it will be hard to prove that a particular item has been doctored up.
the level of detail in the complaint is astonishing. they must have some inside witness, which leads me to believe it is not totally for crap. and, if eli and the Giants were in on this and instructing people to lie to grand juries and selling fake items, we are going to need a new qb, because that is some serious criminal wrongdoing. Federal authorities in Illinois obviously gave some credence to the notion that this guy did not know he was selling fake memorabilia. i would not laugh at these allegations, some things sound ridiculous on the face of them--these don't. On the other hand, I would not go believing everything in it either. We will just have to wait and see how it pans out. However, my gut tells me there is something to this suit.
You're kidding, right? Did you miss the part where football players mow down people with their cars after having a few and they end up with suspended sentences?
Seriously how the fuck doesn't any NFL current player have the time to do this. I can see employees trying to make a few bucks but Eli after signing a huge deal and his famy which is loaded said he. Put this helmet on the market. I need 200 bucks for my method habit.
My guess is the Giants brass is not involved. Employees but management.
As for people who by memorabilia it's to me a risky investment amd wanting to own something someone famous wore sound a bit desperate.
RE: Oh yeah, Eli's going to do some serious jail time
You're kidding, right? Did you miss the part where football players mow down people with their cars after having a few and they end up with suspended sentences?
if Eli is involved in fraud, it is certainly a crime. and many criminal cases start out civilly. as i said, people dismissing this as bogus are out of their minds. that does not mean it is true or that he will be prosecuted, but the level of detail is insane. it was not just an allegation that oh eli is selling fake stuff. it had details of a program and one that covered it up. and, as i said, this guy got his federal case dismissed because he brought obviously credible information to the authorities that he did not know he was selling fake stuff
BS on this. It sounds to me like retribution for the Giants staffers testifying against him. I don't see how he can know any of this stuff unless the people allegedly involved told him, but I won't believe it until I see a lot more evidence.
Don't sidestep your ridiculous insinuation that we'd need a new QB
Essex. Guys have run people down on the street and killed them without jailtime. Vick ran an interstate gambling ring involved in mutilating dogs and got a year. If you really believe that Eli's going to do jail time for this, I've got a wonderful pre-war bridge for sale, just for you.
The timing of this makes me think it's a meritless attention grab
The whole thing sounds like bullshit. Eli, the gazillionaire would waste his time in this endeavor? Would have any idea where these items would end up and with which description? Color me doubtful--especially when factoring in a history of top-notch character and family upbringing.
willfully engaged in fraud. If it were ONE person, maybe. The article characterizes this as everyone from the top down.
The Giants make more than enough money that memorabilia sales have to be a pittance. I'm sure if they really wanted to keep certain pieces of significance, they would just refuse to sell.
Inselberg may have dodged criminal charges, but collectors say he has dubious reputation in the sports memorabilia industry. Inselberg has been linked to a North Carolina warm-up jacket sold by Mastro Auctions in 2007 for $11,000. Mastro officials claimed the jersey had belonged to NBA star Michael Jordan.
Memorabilia Evaluation and Research Services, one of the hobbys leading authentication services, concluded that while the jersey appeared to be a legitimate North Carolina shooting shirt from the 1980s, it did not belong to Jordan. When the shirt was placed over a light table, it was apparent that another name had been removed from the back and replaced with "JORDAN." The letters also seemed to be made of different materials than other patches on the piece, according to MEARS.
1) If ever there was straight laced athlete, Eli (and Peyton) is the poster boy for it.
2) The Giants have a long standing, iron clad reputation as a class organization from top down, especially when it comes to the non-football operations like this.
3) This sounds very much like retribution for the testimony against the guy by members of the Giants organization.
4) Notice how there is the ellipsis in that tiny clip from the alleged email. What's missing there?
5) If this were real, would Skiba be saying as much in email from his Giants account to this guy?
6) All that said, that doesn't mean that there may not be some questionable memorabilia out there.
5) If this were real, would Skiba be saying as much in email from his Giants account to this guy?
This. There's this huge multi-million dollar scam being perpetrated by the entire Giants organization, but Joe Skiba's going to just casually acknowledge it to this guy in an email?
1) If ever there was straight laced athlete, Eli (and Peyton) is the poster boy for it.
To be fair, none of us really knows Eli or Peyton beyond the public persona they have crafted for themselves. I'm not saying they're bad guys or anything, but it's impossible to declare any athlete a stand-up guy based only on the few times we see them in the press.
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2) The Giants have a long standing, iron clad reputation as a class organization from top down, especially when it comes to the non-football operations like this.
I don't dispute this, but the Giants are still a big organization within a league that (in my opinion, at least) is pretty crooked as a whole. The Giants seem to be a great organization, but they're not immune to doing some stupid and even classless things from time to time.
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3) This sounds very much like retribution for the testimony against the guy by members of the Giants organization.
Agreed.
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4) Notice how there is the ellipsis in that tiny clip from the alleged email. What's missing there?
Good point.
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5) If this were real, would Skiba be saying as much in email from his Giants account to this guy?
I'm frequently amazed by the stupid things people say in emails.
So in the decade that Eli has been with the Giants, his entire college career and before and the straight-laced family he comes from, means nothing to you because you aren't close personal friends? Sometimes you need to take a fucking stand and call bullshit when that's what it appears to be.
How much money could Eli make out of those "doctored" game worn items? For what he's making, probably not even worth it for him to think about this "scam".
Would be interesting to follow, but personally I dont buy it.
But for equipment guys, it probably is worth it. Doctoring some stuff allegedly worn for a whole bunch of players, for a few seasons would net them a nice sum.
to investigations or legal inquiries, I can tell you - people are not only that stupid, but MUCH worse. I've seen people admit to crimes in e-mails that they knew were being monitored for compliance purposes (and it was written up in a reminder in every outgoing e-mail they sent).
So in the decade that Eli has been with the Giants, his entire college career and before and the straight-laced family he comes from, means nothing to you because you aren't close personal friends? Sometimes you need to take a fucking stand and call bullshit when that's what it appears to be.
Is it possible? Well, duh.
What I know about Eli is that he's professional. I have no reason to believe that he's a different guy than who he presents himself as, but I also realize that I really know nothing about him on a personal level.
I'm not saying Eli is guilty here - the whole case sounds like BS to me. But what I'm saying is that it wouldn't rock my world if he was found guilty of something like this. The dude could be the greatest guy in the world or he could just be good at PR games. I don't know, and quite frankly I don't care as long as he throws touchdown passes and doesn't do something that seriously hurts anybody.
During the interview he stated that they have their own people at sporting events that mark and verify equipment to validate they are game used. He stated that was the biggest problem with college bowl game stuff, that they don't have access to it until after the game and therefore can't validate it.
So hearing now that they are claiming stuff as authentic that they receive second hand flies in the face of that interview
I saw that on Real Sports/HBO. They did a segment on Yankee stadium bases...where when they change the bases during a game, a Steiner guy is right there to see it, and mark it with a sticker. Off it goes to the warehouse.
Either proves or disproves, depending how you look at it.
If he really has people there who witness the authentic stuff being signed, then that disproves this entire allegation against the Giants. But, if this entire allegation turns out to be true, then how can what Steiner said in that segment be true? And then all of a sudden you have to starting wondering about him and his organization.
Hey Joe, my buddy was offered an eli game used helmet and jersey. Are these the bs ones eli asked you to make up because he didnt want to give up the real stuff? Inselberg writes in the exchange.
Skiba replying from account jskiba@giants.nfl.net writes, BS ones, you are correct
I just can't fathom that email exchange being real. Too many details in the email to Skiba.
Eli is superstitious, not sentimental. the organization has 0 to gain from this. this is someone trying to get themselves out of deep water by pinning it on eli & co. that email was fucking dumb. if eli wanted to keep his jersey/helmet he would have simply said it wasn't up for grabs. there is no mandate saying he has to give or sell his shit to the hof
Only thing holding me back a bit is the feds dropping the charges against this guy, and seemingly believing his defense team was correct when they told the court that Giants staffers had lied to the grand jury that indicted him.
But, he has over a decade of a very clean image and the Giants have decades of a strong organizational image. I find it hard to believe that either party would risk throwing it away over something like this.
That coupled with the fact that it's a civil suit makes you wonder.
However, with that being said, if you received fake memorabilia sold to you as real, would you want the guy in jail, or would you just want your money back?
I wonder if it's really a league-wide practice. Hard to imagine that it would be isolated. This isn't to let Eli or anybody off the hook, but it seems like it would be easy to fake.
@art_stapleton: Eli Manning statement: "The Giants told me this suit is completely without merit and I have no reason to believe otherwise." (cont) #NYG
@art_stapleton: Eli Manning statement (cont): "The Giants are going to fight it and so will I." #nyg
I really hate to think there is any truth to this but I would think it's probably an area every equipment manager would easily be tempted to enter into.
I could see where Eli would maybe want to keep his stuff but even then I don't see any reason for him to feel obligated to put fake stuff on the market. I also see no reason why any upper Giants Management would feel the need to get involved in anything like this.
If there is any truth to any of this I would guess it only concerns low level Giants employees. That said, I would expect 60% of the shit for sale is fake. But who cares, it's shit anyway. Like the stitches of a famous hockey player that were removed when his cut healed. Ughhh! Who the heck would want that shit.
If the market is so big for this stuff, I wonder why we don't see players changing jerseys after every set of downs.
Eli cared enough about a few thousand dollars that he would put himself at risk for something like this? I'm calling BS as I don't see a good enough motive, and Eli's a pretty smart guy. Or, Eli was not directly involved.
I could fathom for Eli to do it, and it's not a strong reason, is that he didn't want to part with some mementos and was under pressure to do so for one reason or another. Contractually perhaps. It's the only reason that even remotely makes sense to me, and I don't really buy that reason either.
the Yankees fired long time clubhouse manager Nick Priore for what was called performance reasons, and turned out to be (I believe) that he was stealing items from the team and selling them.
I want to believe that Joe had nothing like this going on the side to make some money with the sports memorabilia folks.
At the end of the day, if there is something here, I highly doubt it will ever reach the levels as high up as the Maras or even Eli.
I actually don't think he was that involved..Between practices, traveling, games, meetings, etc..How much time do you think he put into watching dog fighting and actually running the business?
Eli cared enough about a few thousand dollars that he would put himself at risk for something like this? I'm calling BS as I don't see a good enough motive, and Eli's a pretty smart guy. Or, Eli was not directly involved.
THIS. How soon people forget how genuinely good this family has been for a LONG time. Could it be true? Sure. Every indication coming from the kind of people Eli and his family are points to FUCK no. And that article headline sucks. "Suit" at the end...Yeah, how about "cheating, thief asshole sues Giants to get back at them?"
I never got the impression, but i have to admit, i didn't follow the story close enough..I just figured the accomplices sand once they got caught and sold Vick out..
Worn in a game. Couldn't you take any helmet, wear it for one or two snaps, and then call it "game worn"? Same for a jersey. You'd think if you wanted to save your own game worn items, you'd find a way to create a few more for sale.
This was what I thought. Game worn doesn't guarantee it was worn the entire game...
But Vick put his career and his 100M dollar contract on the line for a few thousand..
I ain't saying Vick is like Eli and this all could be bullshit..But you don't really know these people..
people thought OJ was a saint..
ha, if Eli turns out to be some criminal mastermind, and the "aww shucks" routine was just a giant facade to hide his dastardly plan to bilk unsuspecting fans out of $ in exchange for fake shit, i may seriously consider stopping watching professional sports.
I wouldn't go that far but i know what you mean..My main point is, we see these guys on TV and read their interviews. We have no idea what kind of lives the athletes have..I would be extremely shocked if this was true due to how they carry themselves..
the more I think this is BS and would feel the same for any other franchise. I can't see the upside to the franchise or top players for something so blatant. I'm sure there is plenty of BS gameworn memorabilia out there and people get ripped off all the time. But, I doubt any of it it the result of a big name player knowingly faking the stuff.
Not because Eli could go to jail or any nonsensense like thatbut because, very simply, he has people over and entertains frequently.he has a memoribilia room in his home, if people who are there see things that are supposed to be displayed in the HoF, then he looks like a liar, a fraud, to friends and aquaintances. Not saying anyone ever squeals, but still, has to have an eventual effect on how people view you, talk about you.Things like that don't stay buried forever.People gossip.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
Not knowing about players personally: True, but if any player or any other entertainment star so much as spits on the sidewalk & gets a citation, it's all over the news, Twitter, Facebook, etc. instantly. I have an impossible time believing Eli is as good an actor as the role Ed Norton played in Primal Fear.
Who knows ALL the real reasons the FBI dropped the case against Inselberg. I would imagine that if the Giants management, staff & players were involved in any way, shape or form as part of the scam, they, too, would have been investigated & this would have been reported widely long ago. There is not 1 iota of evidence that's been the case, aside from Inselberg's allegation that the FBI wasn't on their tail because of a widespread conspiracy involving, Skiba, the Maras, Tisch, Eli, Barone, Walker, the CFO (am I leaving anyone out?) AGAINST HIM. Get real.
Eli & the team are making plenty of $, so what the hell would their motive be to partake in any of this idiocy? The immense joy they get out of bilking fans? I think not.
As far as Vick, he admitted to providing most of the financing for the operation and to participating directly in several dog fights in Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina and South Carolina. He admitted to sharing in the proceeds from these dog fights. He further admitted that he knew his colleagues killed several dogs who did not perform well. He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 68 dogs, by hanging or drowning. Yeah, this is a guy who was just misunderstood. He wasn't really such a bad guy after all & there were certainly no instances before the dog fighting scandal to indicate he was a scumbag, such as 2 guys arrested for distributing pot in a truck registered to him in 2004, getting sued because he failed to warn a woman he knew he had genital herpes in 2005, flipping off home fans in 2006. Nothing major league, but he was hardly an agel either.
RE: Some here may know that I'm a longtime observer of this hobby.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
the Yankees fired long time clubhouse manager Nick Priore for what was called performance reasons, and turned out to be (I believe) that he was stealing items from the team and selling them.
I want to believe that Joe had nothing like this going on the side to make some money with the sports memorabilia folks.
At the end of the day, if there is something here, I highly doubt it will ever reach the levels as high up as the Maras or even Eli.
it is obviously entirely possible that Skiba asked Eli to sign this stuff and that Eli did sign stuff that Skiba or somebody else fraudulently misrepresented the origin of the item. In that case, Eli would have virtually no criminal responsibility at all. However, I do not know what is true and what is not true, but the federal government just does not drop indictments and say that the defense showed us things to doubt our case without a significant showing. So, there is something here. What that something is, I have not the slightest clue.
RE: RE: Some here may know that I'm a longtime observer of this hobby.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
RE: RE: RE: Some here may know that I'm a longtime observer of this hobby.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Some here may know that I'm a longtime observer of this hobby.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Some here may know that I'm a longtime observer of this hobby.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Some here may know that I'm a longtime observer of this hobby.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
why does it bother anyone? most of these replies have some good stuff.
don't understand Eli's role in this. For him to be guilty, he would have had to have brokered the deals, right? otherwise he could have easily thought he was just signing items and didn't know they were being sold as game-worn memorabilia. It just makes no sense.
His quote further proves it to me. He had no clue this was going on and went to the team to find out if it was true. Now I can believe this happened, but I find it hard to believe that Eli had anything to do with it and was knowingly signing items which weren't worn but were being sold as game worn items. I won't buy it until i see overwhelming evidence or hear it from him.
To me, this sounds like payback from this hack who is upset that Giants Equipment guys testified against him. I'll call BS until there is some real proof.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Some here may know that I'm a longtime observer of this hobby.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
No problem! Very mature of you to apologize.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Some here may know that I'm a longtime observer of this hobby.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
No problem! Very mature of you to apologize.
Well done, gents. This is how things should be handled. On the field, like men.
Wow, that is bad grammar. Apologies, it's early in the morning and I was pissed off about this subject after hearing the joy in Boomer & Carton's voices while discussing the matter.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Some here may know that I'm a longtime observer of this hobby.
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
No problem! Very mature of you to apologize.
Well done, gents. This is how things should be handled. On the field, like men.
The only game-worn jersey I have was a gift, it's from Eli's rookie year, it's the red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch.
Ugly as hell but I figure it's a one of a kind!
Huh, that's funny because I have Eli's game-worn, red alternate jersey with the 80th anniversary patch too! And I have the certificate of authenticity to go with it too. So suck on that!
I'm a Giants fan, (almost 60 years worth), who has had a problem with Eli Manning long before the Giants made the draft day trade to acquire him. It has nothing to do with his athletic abilities. Rather, it has everything to do with his personality and the coven created by his father.
Going into the draft, I believed Eli, Rivers and Big Ben all had the skills necessary to be a Super Bowl QB. So I was willing to allow fate to make our decision for us... whichever QB was available when the Giants were up, would suit me fine. That quickly changed. It changed when Eli and his daddy, Archie, told the NFL he would not play for San Diego and proceeded to give a select list of teams for which Eli would play.
Despite the fact that Archie was a decent NFL QB, despite the fact that big brother Peyton was proving himself a terrific NFL QB, there were NO guarantees that Eli would pan out as projected. Only the smug, audacious Mannings, believed that Eli was justified in making such demands. This left a bitter taste in my mouth. Especially when daddy stated, among his myriad reasons, that a city like NY would afford Eli many more ways to earn money than would a laid-back Southern California city like SD. I guess the chance to live a childhood dream and earn a multi-million dollar contract wasn't enough for the Mannings. Eli and daddy needed additional revenue streams.
Now we can fast forward to last week and the allegations stated in this thread that Eli was part and parcel of a memorabilia scam which may have included several other Giants' employees as well as co-owner John Mara. On its face, it all seems ridiculous... why would a millionaire player participate in such a scam? Perhaps that question was answered by Archie days before the 2004 draft.
For the past ten years I've bit my tongue about our 2-time SB QB. My distaste for his attitude has kept me from embracing him as a beloved Giant. If any of these allegations prove to be true, it will make it awfully hard for me to cheer-on Big Blue if Mr. Selfish remains our QB.
Riggies... No, I'll remain a Giants' fan, especially if it will piss you off!
Hoboken... No doubt Eli loves playing for the Giants, works hard for TC, and is admired by many teammates. There's also no doubt he's been a polarizing figure among Giants' fans. That's because his career has been a series of extreme highs and lows. Before arguing that point, I suggest you read a few years worth of Corner Forum threads.
That said, I stand by my belief that Eli and his daddy have brass cagliones for making such selfish demands before ever proving a thing!
So he works hard, is a good teammate, loves the team you root for,
and has been a key component to two SB titles and you're still clinging to the draft day/trade stuff (not even his up/down play) as the reason to not like him.
You keep standing your ground, man. Keep fighting that good fight against Mr Selfish.
How ignorant a fan of 60 years does someone have to be
To not realize how absurd and asinine they sound regarding the attitude and mannerisms of a QB that has won them 2 SB's? Especially given the fact he has done nothin at all to warrant that level of idiocy in their actions with and outside the team.
Just a mind-numbing stupid ass post by our boy Boo
performance. I don't care to debate that. Your first post was about his attitude, and stuff of that nature. If you want to get on him about the draft day stuff, fine. But there's virtually nothing to get on him in terms of behavior or attitude since he's been the starting QB here.
And most fucking annoying aspect of Bbi is the quote feature. And the joke quoting isn't funny at all. It's just annoying.
I'd pay money to see the quite feature removed because apparently people can't just respond to a post without utilizing this stupid fuckin quote feature. How did we manage without it in the past? We did just fine...
Like it or not, the NFL draft is set up to allow poor teams to draft at the top. The idea is to give all teams the chance to build and be competitive. It's been that way for more than 60 years.
So when some snotty nosed college hot shot like Eli Manning comes along and makes demands of the league he wants to play in, I take umbrage.
Eli put himself into a very small club with his pre-draft demands. Off the top of my head, he's joined John Elway and Bo Jackson as players who believed they deserved special treatment before ever setting foot on an NFL field. Meanwhile, thousands of other college stars willingly and eagerly jumped at the chance to play for whatever team drafted them.
That's what I mean by having a piss-poor attitude!
Like it or not, the NFL draft is set up to allow poor teams to draft at the top. The idea is to give all teams the chance to build and be competitive. It's been that way for more than 60 years.
So when some snotty nosed college hot shot like Eli Manning comes along and makes demands of the league he wants to play in, I take umbrage.
Eli put himself into a very small club with his pre-draft demands. Off the top of my head, he's joined John Elway and Bo Jackson as players who believed they deserved special treatment before ever setting foot on an NFL field. Meanwhile, thousands of other college stars willingly and eagerly jumped at the chance to play for whatever team drafted them.
That's what I mean by having a piss-poor attitude!
Troll elsewhere dipshit, nobody's buying your schtick.
Doesn't realize that fathers often want better for their children then they had. Archie played almost his entire NFL career for shit teams and he regretted it.
He didn't want that to happen to his son. What a bad, bad man he must be.
Oh, that's an excellent reason to usurp NFL rules.
However, your point further supports my point that the Manning's are selfish people. Why else would you make demands no one else makes? Why else would you give the HoF a helmet and claim you wore it in the SB? Why else would you sell fake memorabilia?
Funny how this comes out during the SB....
It also claimed this was happening in 2000, 2001....what's that got to do with manning?
This stinks of bull shit...One of the classier teams and classier players who always seem to say and do the right thing has been forging collectable s for years?
I call BS
There is going to be little to no evidence
However, if this story does have any truth, the bigger ramifications are in the whole sports memorabilia industry, which (I haven't done the research) I imagine is a multi-billion dolllar industry as people are spending thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on items they believe to be authentic.
Either this sheds light on the business that this industry doesn't want shed, and if it is true, I would think that the Giants and Manning wouldn't be the first or only ones to do it and it becomes a larger story. Or this guy is fraud and he's in drowning man syndrome and looking to take others down to keep himself out of trouble.
Pathetic if true.
Going to be very tough to win this one but in any case, the team, Eli and others will look bad. Maybe as bad as the Belichick cheating incidents.
Doesn't make it right if true, but to suggest the Giants were the only team involved is silly.
Moreover, the article title is misleading...its not like Eli owns a 3D copier and was manufacturing these goods in his sweatshop. Or, did he....
What exactly does "put it on the market" mean? Hard to see Eli being motivated to this, even if he wanted to keep his stuff, this seems like pure greed.
If that is true, why wouldn't the feds still prosecut him? If he knew of the fakes, and sold them himself, then he's engaging in criminal activity. In addition, why wouldn't the prosecutors interview the Giants and Eli, or even prosecut them?
Sounds like a nice story, but there are too many apparent inconsistencies here. Allege what you want in a lawsuit. Good luck proving it. As a lawyer, I see leaps of faith in allegations all the time, then see it all fall apart when they are put to their proof.
couldn't Eli just sell nothing?
A #giants spokesperson said the fake memorabilia lawsuit is without merit and team will defend it "vigorously." #vigor
It will be very difficult to prove. This sheds light on a very sleazy business. Caveat emptor.
It will be very difficult to prove. This sheds light on a very sleazy business. Caveat emptor.
I do know how to spell prosecute. Typed too fast. Guess that never happened to you. You're awesome!
Pete, I do understand what they claim. To fake a game worn, just take a new "real" jersey and give it a little stain or hole. I just think it will be hard to prove that a particular item has been doctored up.
Not surprisingly, the post went for sensationalism over any degree of skepticism.
That all said, i would bet this gets settled out of court. Giants won't want the distraction it would be if it drags on.
That doesn't mean it's true.
I'll wait to see where this goes before calling into people's integrity just yet.
And if Eli goes down, the entire organization does, as what was going on allegedly dates back before he was even playing college ball.
Seriously how the fuck doesn't any NFL current player have the time to do this. I can see employees trying to make a few bucks but Eli after signing a huge deal and his famy which is loaded said he. Put this helmet on the market. I need 200 bucks for my method habit.
My guess is the Giants brass is not involved. Employees but management.
As for people who by memorabilia it's to me a risky investment amd wanting to own something someone famous wore sound a bit desperate.
if Eli is involved in fraud, it is certainly a crime. and many criminal cases start out civilly. as i said, people dismissing this as bogus are out of their minds. that does not mean it is true or that he will be prosecuted, but the level of detail is insane. it was not just an allegation that oh eli is selling fake stuff. it had details of a program and one that covered it up. and, as i said, this guy got his federal case dismissed because he brought obviously credible information to the authorities that he did not know he was selling fake stuff
That doesn't mean it's true.
I'll wait to see where this goes before calling into people's integrity just yet.
what part of lets wait and see escaped you? I said I am not taking this lightly, i never said eli is a crook.
I hadn't even read your post when I wrote what I wrote.
Even if they were 100% innocent, why would they want this to linger in the newspapers?
If they are less than that, and I'm guessing they may be, they will definitely want this lawsuit to go away.
We'll see...
#freeskiba
Sports memorabilia collecting is lame.
The Giants make more than enough money that memorabilia sales have to be a pittance. I'm sure if they really wanted to keep certain pieces of significance, they would just refuse to sell.
Memorabilia Evaluation and Research Services, one of the hobbys leading authentication services, concluded that while the jersey appeared to be a legitimate North Carolina shooting shirt from the 1980s, it did not belong to Jordan. When the shirt was placed over a light table, it was apparent that another name had been removed from the back and replaced with "JORDAN." The letters also seemed to be made of different materials than other patches on the piece, according to MEARS.
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2) The Giants have a long standing, iron clad reputation as a class organization from top down, especially when it comes to the non-football operations like this.
3) This sounds very much like retribution for the testimony against the guy by members of the Giants organization.
4) Notice how there is the ellipsis in that tiny clip from the alleged email. What's missing there?
5) If this were real, would Skiba be saying as much in email from his Giants account to this guy?
6) All that said, that doesn't mean that there may not be some questionable memorabilia out there.
This. There's this huge multi-million dollar scam being perpetrated by the entire Giants organization, but Joe Skiba's going to just casually acknowledge it to this guy in an email?
People emailing damning evidence happens incredibly frequently.
To be fair, none of us really knows Eli or Peyton beyond the public persona they have crafted for themselves. I'm not saying they're bad guys or anything, but it's impossible to declare any athlete a stand-up guy based only on the few times we see them in the press.
I don't dispute this, but the Giants are still a big organization within a league that (in my opinion, at least) is pretty crooked as a whole. The Giants seem to be a great organization, but they're not immune to doing some stupid and even classless things from time to time.
Agreed.
Good point.
I'm frequently amazed by the stupid things people say in emails.
Is it possible? Well, duh.
Sports memorabilia collecting is lame.
Totally agree.
Would be interesting to follow, but personally I dont buy it.
But for equipment guys, it probably is worth it. Doctoring some stuff allegedly worn for a whole bunch of players, for a few seasons would net them a nice sum.
And what idiot uses their NFL email to talk about this & say 'BS ones, you are correct..."
Skiba is a moron, to state the very least.
Personally I dont believe the entire claim
Is it possible? Well, duh.
What I know about Eli is that he's professional. I have no reason to believe that he's a different guy than who he presents himself as, but I also realize that I really know nothing about him on a personal level.
I'm not saying Eli is guilty here - the whole case sounds like BS to me. But what I'm saying is that it wouldn't rock my world if he was found guilty of something like this. The dude could be the greatest guy in the world or he could just be good at PR games. I don't know, and quite frankly I don't care as long as he throws touchdown passes and doesn't do something that seriously hurts anybody.
If true, the Giants equipment managers sent the Hall of Fame a fake game worn jersey so Eli could keep his own. Now that would be embarassing.
So hearing now that they are claiming stuff as authentic that they receive second hand flies in the face of that interview
Link - ( New Window )
If he really has people there who witness the authentic stuff being signed, then that disproves this entire allegation against the Giants. But, if this entire allegation turns out to be true, then how can what Steiner said in that segment be true? And then all of a sudden you have to starting wondering about him and his organization.
Skiba replying from account jskiba@giants.nfl.net writes, BS ones, you are correct
I just can't fathom that email exchange being real. Too many details in the email to Skiba.
Figured it'd be interesting to watch.
Based on this article, Mara wrote the following: "
On behalf of the Mara and Tisch families, I wish to thank you for loaning the Giants organization your extension collection of Giants memorabilia."
Really? extension collection?
BS ones, you are correct. There are a lot of bs pieces out there." Or something tot hat effect.
That coupled with the fact that it's a civil suit makes you wonder.
However, with that being said, if you received fake memorabilia sold to you as real, would you want the guy in jail, or would you just want your money back?
Me thinks the latter
Wouldn't surprise me if Tom was in on this, too. People who moralize always end up being the scammers.
@art_stapleton: Eli Manning statement (cont): "The Giants are going to fight it and so will I." #nyg
Is the writer of the articles twitter handle if anyone is interested
I could see where Eli would maybe want to keep his stuff but even then I don't see any reason for him to feel obligated to put fake stuff on the market. I also see no reason why any upper Giants Management would feel the need to get involved in anything like this.
If there is any truth to any of this I would guess it only concerns low level Giants employees. That said, I would expect 60% of the shit for sale is fake. But who cares, it's shit anyway. Like the stitches of a famous hockey player that were removed when his cut healed. Ughhh! Who the heck would want that shit.
If the market is so big for this stuff, I wonder why we don't see players changing jerseys after every set of downs.
Archie Manning to @NYDNsportsITeam on lawsuit vs. Eli: "It's a bombshell, and a bombshell to him too. Eli's always tried to do what's right"
More Archie (via @NYDNsportsITeam): "It's Super Bowl week, and you've got to create a story out there, but I don't know anything about it."
DHS Seizes Fake NFL Merch - ( New Window )
I want to believe that Joe had nothing like this going on the side to make some money with the sports memorabilia folks.
At the end of the day, if there is something here, I highly doubt it will ever reach the levels as high up as the Maras or even Eli.
I ain't saying Vick is like Eli and this all could be bullshit..But you don't really know these people..
people thought OJ was a saint..
This was what I thought. Game worn doesn't guarantee it was worn the entire game...
I ain't saying Vick is like Eli and this all could be bullshit..But you don't really know these people..
people thought OJ was a saint..
ha, if Eli turns out to be some criminal mastermind, and the "aww shucks" routine was just a giant facade to hide his dastardly plan to bilk unsuspecting fans out of $ in exchange for fake shit, i may seriously consider stopping watching professional sports.
But people have shocked us before..
:)
They probably keep it so that it doesn't get sold.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
Who knows ALL the real reasons the FBI dropped the case against Inselberg. I would imagine that if the Giants management, staff & players were involved in any way, shape or form as part of the scam, they, too, would have been investigated & this would have been reported widely long ago. There is not 1 iota of evidence that's been the case, aside from Inselberg's allegation that the FBI wasn't on their tail because of a widespread conspiracy involving, Skiba, the Maras, Tisch, Eli, Barone, Walker, the CFO (am I leaving anyone out?) AGAINST HIM. Get real.
Eli & the team are making plenty of $, so what the hell would their motive be to partake in any of this idiocy? The immense joy they get out of bilking fans? I think not.
As far as Vick, he admitted to providing most of the financing for the operation and to participating directly in several dog fights in Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina and South Carolina. He admitted to sharing in the proceeds from these dog fights. He further admitted that he knew his colleagues killed several dogs who did not perform well. He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 68 dogs, by hanging or drowning. Yeah, this is a guy who was just misunderstood. He wasn't really such a bad guy after all & there were certainly no instances before the dog fighting scandal to indicate he was a scumbag, such as 2 guys arrested for distributing pot in a truck registered to him in 2004, getting sued because he failed to warn a woman he knew he had genital herpes in 2005, flipping off home fans in 2006. Nothing major league, but he was hardly an agel either.
Great post Britt. Very informative. Thanks
In comment 11484983 Britt in VA said:
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
I want to believe that Joe had nothing like this going on the side to make some money with the sports memorabilia folks.
At the end of the day, if there is something here, I highly doubt it will ever reach the levels as high up as the Maras or even Eli.
it is obviously entirely possible that Skiba asked Eli to sign this stuff and that Eli did sign stuff that Skiba or somebody else fraudulently misrepresented the origin of the item. In that case, Eli would have virtually no criminal responsibility at all. However, I do not know what is true and what is not true, but the federal government just does not drop indictments and say that the defense showed us things to doubt our case without a significant showing. So, there is something here. What that something is, I have not the slightest clue.
Great post Britt. Very informative. Thanks
In comment 11484983 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Quote:
Great post Britt. Very informative. Thanks
In comment 11484983 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Quote:
In comment 11485272 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Great post Britt. Very informative. Thanks
In comment 11484983 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Quote:
In comment 11485316 Davisian said:
Quote:
In comment 11485272 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Great post Britt. Very informative. Thanks
In comment 11484983 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
Quote:
In comment 11485322 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 11485316 Davisian said:
Quote:
In comment 11485272 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Great post Britt. Very informative. Thanks
In comment 11484983 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
why does it bother anyone? most of these replies have some good stuff.
His quote further proves it to me. He had no clue this was going on and went to the team to find out if it was true. Now I can believe this happened, but I find it hard to believe that Eli had anything to do with it and was knowingly signing items which weren't worn but were being sold as game worn items. I won't buy it until i see overwhelming evidence or hear it from him.
To me, this sounds like payback from this hack who is upset that Giants Equipment guys testified against him. I'll call BS until there is some real proof.
Quote:
In comment 11485322 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 11485316 Davisian said:
Quote:
In comment 11485272 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Great post Britt. Very informative. Thanks
In comment 11484983 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
No problem! Very mature of you to apologize.
Quote:
In comment 11485344 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 11485322 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 11485316 Davisian said:
Quote:
In comment 11485272 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Great post Britt. Very informative. Thanks
In comment 11484983 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
No problem! Very mature of you to apologize.
Well done, gents. This is how things should be handled. On the field, like men.
Wow, that is bad grammar. Apologies, it's early in the morning and I was pissed off about this subject after hearing the joy in Boomer & Carton's voices while discussing the matter.
Quote:
In comment 11485347 Davisian said:
Quote:
In comment 11485344 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 11485322 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 11485316 Davisian said:
Quote:
In comment 11485272 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Great post Britt. Very informative. Thanks
In comment 11484983 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
As a former collector of game worn stuff, most of which is still in my collection, it is disheartening. Mainly because I felt like I did my due diligence in the collecting, which is the way you have to do it. In many cases, I have confirmation from Joe Skibba, the Giants, or pictures of the players with the jersey/piece in question.
It's hard to get more authentication than that. I can see getting duped by a secondhand dealer, but if the players and equipment manager were in on it, too, that's disheartening.
Luckily for me, I stopped collecting after the Giants got good and started winning Superbowls. Most of my collection was built between 2000 and 2005. There wasn't nearly the market for that stuff then that there is now. You could get things for a couple of hundred dollars as compared to a couple thousand now. For that, I am grateful, because my loss would be minimal if indeed it all turned out to be fake. I suppose had I cashed out a year or two ago, I could have made several thousand dollars, but how would I feel today if I knew (or wondered) that I brokered fake stuff and took somebody else's money, you know?
I do have an Eli rookie jersey, that I actually bought his rookie year... Only a few weeks after the game in which it was supposedly used. His red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch. Seems like it would be a fairly unique one to have, in that it's a one of a kind in the sense they they only wore red with that patch once ever, but you never know. It is also autographed by Eli and Steiner authenticated.
I guess my question is this... Why is it worth it to Eli, or any other player that a collector would want the jersey of, to commit fraud? Like I said, when I bought the jerseys back in the early part of the decade before the hobby blew up, you could get most stuff for less than $500. There wasn't really a market for it. Nowadays, I could see it... but back then? Wouldn't be worth their time or risk.
I've been collecting a long time. Since I was a little kid with things like baseball cards, football cards, and comic books. I think collecting is one of those things that's just part of your personality. Some people are collectors, some people aren't. I've learned an awful lot collecting over the years, and come up with some rules for myself along the way that have benefitted me a ton.
I only collect things that I love, like, or bring me joy. I don't do it as an investment, ever. If it monetarily pays to move on or sell at some point, that's just a bonus. I've made lots of money with other hobbies collecting, buying and selling pinball machines and arcade games, among other things. It all sort of evens out in the end. If you're in it for the investment, collecting, anything really, is like stocks. You research them, then you win some, you lose some...
I also never over extend myself when getting into collecting a certain thing. When the prices start to get to that point, get out and enjoy what you have. I was at the peak of my Giants fandom coming into the 2000's. I was out of college, working, and getting to the point in my life where I had a little scratch for once to buy some things that I always wanted. But like I said before, back then, the hobby was affordable for regular guys. When I got out of collecting game worn stuff, around 2005, the prices were creeping up. Now, they are absurd. The same jerseys that I was buying for two to four hundred bucks back then, are now selling for anywhere from 1,000-5,000, some cases 6-10,000, depending on the player and significance. Once that happens, the hobby usually falls apart, because that's when you have guys saying "hey, I can make a buck here" and things like what was reported today begin happening. Back when I started, like I said, it wasn't worth Eli's time to do that, because let's face it, until 2007 Eli was an unknown. Who would pay those prices for an Eli jersey prior to his Superbowl season? A lot of people thought he was a bust.
The truth is, I still feel fairly confident that what I bought is legit, for a lot of reasons. Namely, at the time, it just wasn't a lucrative hobby. A lot of the items in question are since the Superbowl, when the prices skyrocketed, and it made sense for people to forge things to make money. Back when I was in it, it would have been a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of payoff. Really, the jerseys themselves, even if not game worn are worth 2-250. They might have made one to two hundred bucks to commit fraud back then. Still, certainly it could have happend. Are there questions in my mind with this coming to light? Sure. But I'm not going to let it take away from why I bought them in the first place. To display them and enjoy them. One day, I'll give them to my son or my next kid, and let them have some things that their old man thought fondly of, and maybe they'll have memories of being kids and seeing them displayed in our game room where we watched games.
The last jersey I ever bought was in 2005. It was an Antonio Pierce game worn jersey with the WTM/PRT patch on it with a lot of game repairs, and was tailored specifically for Pierce with several alterations that I can photomatch. The person got it directly from Joe Skibba and it was sent with candid picture of Antonio Pierce holding the jersey up for the camera right after he signed it, and inscribed it "Game Used, 2005, Antonio Pierce". I paid $500 for it. Again, that would be a lot of work to do to pull of a fraud, for not a lot of money.
You have to do your due dilligence in any sort of hobby where you take people's word for it. Some hobbies are more risky than others, but you now the risks. The best you can do is photomatch and do your research. Again, I still feel like what I got was good. Do things like this make me question it? Yes. But not to a point where I don't enjoy them anymore, and I didn't plan on selling them or profiting from them, anyways.
The bottom line is, as a collector, you know the risks. You have to do your best and educate yourself, do your due diligence, and hope for the best in many cases. That's why you've got to make rules for yourself and stick to them. To protect yourself.
I'd say for me, the most disheartening thing that will come from all of this, will be if Eli and Joe Skibba are involved. That will bother me way more than anything else in this mess, because Eli's pretty much my favorite player of all time at this point. That will be tarnished big time for me, and sting worse than any bogus jersey/couple hundred bucks.
Now, if I had recently invested in this, or this, I'd be a lot more worried and upset. Luckily for me though, I dipped long before the prices got so out of control. Mainly, because they did get so high.
One final reason I think my stuff is legit, and another reason I think this is a bogus claim, is a personal anecdote. Back in 2004, there was a Giant Fan Summit, I guess you could call it, where Kevin Corbett was redesigning the website and wanted fan input. I drove up there with HopeJ. First time meeting her. There were probably about fifteen of us invited to this meeting at Giants Stadium in the front office.
Anyways, I actually suggested during that meeting, that the Giants offered up "Game Worn" memoribilia directly, so that fans could buy the stuff right from the team, and it actually happened when they redesigned the website! This was in the offseason of 2004-2005, about a month or two before Eli was drafted. The reason that this is relevant, was because they didn't even seem to know there was a market for that stuff at that time. They started selling on the website during the 2005 season, and I believe it took off and made a lot of money for awhile. But again, before that, they didn't even realize there was a demand for it. The lawsuit alledges that this was happening in the late 1990's into 2000. Kinda seems strange it would be happening back then if they didn't even realize fans wanted it.
One of the claims that I have a problem believing, is the HOF helmet claim. The reason is tied to one of my favorite pieces that I own, a game worn, Michael Strahan helmet from 2001. The year he broke the sack record. It's hard to know which helmet, or some jerseys for that matter, was worn in a particular game in a season, because often they are re-used for multiple games. I do know that my helmet was worn that season, but I don't know when. I DO, however, know it wasn't worn during the record breaking sack game against Favre, because I read there was an official on hand, AT THE GAME, who then took the uniform directly from the lockerroom to the HOF. That was a regular season game. I have a hard time believing if they'd do that at a regular season game they wouldn't have a similar protocol for the Superbowl of all games, where a helmet and uniform are surely brand new, and a one time only wear sort of deal.
Another anecdote I can share from having knowledge of the hobby, is that Emmitt Smith wore four jerseys the day he broke the rushing record. He changed jerseys between each quarter. So technically, there are four jerseys that could claim to be "game worn" during that game.
One final research tidbit, oftentimes, players have backup jerseys in their lockers in case something happens that can't be repaired. Often up to two or three per game I believe. A lot of times, these "game issued" jerseys are passed off as "game used". They are legit and issued by the team, but not actually worn.
tl;Dr
Can you guys stop quoting that massive post?
Sorry
Apologies...
No problem! Very mature of you to apologize.
Well done, gents. This is how things should be handled. On the field, like men.
Definitely. Kudos.
The only game-worn jersey I have was a gift, it's from Eli's rookie year, it's the red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch.
Ugly as hell but I figure it's a one of a kind!
The only game-worn jersey I have was a gift, it's from Eli's rookie year, it's the red alternate one with the 80th anniversary patch.
Ugly as hell but I figure it's a one of a kind!
Huh, that's funny because I have Eli's game-worn, red alternate jersey with the 80th anniversary patch too! And I have the certificate of authenticity to go with it too. So suck on that!
Going into the draft, I believed Eli, Rivers and Big Ben all had the skills necessary to be a Super Bowl QB. So I was willing to allow fate to make our decision for us... whichever QB was available when the Giants were up, would suit me fine. That quickly changed. It changed when Eli and his daddy, Archie, told the NFL he would not play for San Diego and proceeded to give a select list of teams for which Eli would play.
Despite the fact that Archie was a decent NFL QB, despite the fact that big brother Peyton was proving himself a terrific NFL QB, there were NO guarantees that Eli would pan out as projected. Only the smug, audacious Mannings, believed that Eli was justified in making such demands. This left a bitter taste in my mouth. Especially when daddy stated, among his myriad reasons, that a city like NY would afford Eli many more ways to earn money than would a laid-back Southern California city like SD. I guess the chance to live a childhood dream and earn a multi-million dollar contract wasn't enough for the Mannings. Eli and daddy needed additional revenue streams.
Now we can fast forward to last week and the allegations stated in this thread that Eli was part and parcel of a memorabilia scam which may have included several other Giants' employees as well as co-owner John Mara. On its face, it all seems ridiculous... why would a millionaire player participate in such a scam? Perhaps that question was answered by Archie days before the 2004 draft.
For the past ten years I've bit my tongue about our 2-time SB QB. My distaste for his attitude has kept me from embracing him as a beloved Giant. If any of these allegations prove to be true, it will make it awfully hard for me to cheer-on Big Blue if Mr. Selfish remains our QB.
*facepalm*
Hoboken... No doubt Eli loves playing for the Giants, works hard for TC, and is admired by many teammates. There's also no doubt he's been a polarizing figure among Giants' fans. That's because his career has been a series of extreme highs and lows. Before arguing that point, I suggest you read a few years worth of Corner Forum threads.
That said, I stand by my belief that Eli and his daddy have brass cagliones for making such selfish demands before ever proving a thing!
You keep standing your ground, man. Keep fighting that good fight against Mr Selfish.
Just a mind-numbing stupid ass post by our boy Boo
I'd pay money to see the quite feature removed because apparently people can't just respond to a post without utilizing this stupid fuckin quote feature. How did we manage without it in the past? We did just fine...
So when some snotty nosed college hot shot like Eli Manning comes along and makes demands of the league he wants to play in, I take umbrage.
Eli put himself into a very small club with his pre-draft demands. Off the top of my head, he's joined John Elway and Bo Jackson as players who believed they deserved special treatment before ever setting foot on an NFL field. Meanwhile, thousands of other college stars willingly and eagerly jumped at the chance to play for whatever team drafted them.
That's what I mean by having a piss-poor attitude!
So when some snotty nosed college hot shot like Eli Manning comes along and makes demands of the league he wants to play in, I take umbrage.
Eli put himself into a very small club with his pre-draft demands. Off the top of my head, he's joined John Elway and Bo Jackson as players who believed they deserved special treatment before ever setting foot on an NFL field. Meanwhile, thousands of other college stars willingly and eagerly jumped at the chance to play for whatever team drafted them.
That's what I mean by having a piss-poor attitude!
Troll elsewhere dipshit, nobody's buying your schtick.
He didn't want that to happen to his son. What a bad, bad man he must be.
However, your point further supports my point that the Manning's are selfish people. Why else would you make demands no one else makes? Why else would you give the HoF a helmet and claim you wore it in the SB? Why else would you sell fake memorabilia?
Yup, selfish is a good description.
Taters gonna tate