Tuck's comments this morning regarding FA (not unexpected)

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In comment 11483384 2ndroundKO said:

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Period. Without him, DE is a huge question mark. Not to mention how he's already taken discount contracts with us, never once complained; could have easily been the MVP in both SB's, bleeds Giant Blue, is a captain, oh and had a big year last year.

We need a DE, but I dont think we "need" Tuck. He had a good & healthy season, but in a contract year, everybody with a name other than Nicks does. I dont think he has much more left in his tank.

"I will see what the market is for me,” Tuck said during a Super Bowl promotional appearance. “I’ve never been in this situation before, and it’s a great opportunity for myself. I would be doing myself a disservice if I didn’t see what the market is, and I will.”

"Tuck, who turns 31 in late March, said he plans to grant the Giants’ recent request for a face-to-face meeting next month to discuss returning, but described it as more of a courtesy because of all the difficult decisions the cap-strapped team faces this offseason."

“We will sit down in a couple of weeks and see what happens, but obviously, the Giants are going to do what’s best for the Giants, and vice versa with me and my family,” Tuck told The Post. “I understand where they’re coming from and what obstacles they have to overcome this offseason. There’s no guarantee, and that’s obvious. It’s a business, and [I] understand both sides of it.”

Link - ( New Window )

has been down this road with the vets many times before. Looking at what has happened with the offense so far, I think we will see a new approach regarding the retention of aging players in their last years. New blood is what we will be seeking after the collapse of the Ol and the offense last year. Love Tuck but if he wants to maximize his last contract I do not see it happening here.

but it won't be big, imo and I doubt the Giants match

In comment 11483511 TMS said:

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has been down this road with the vets many times before. Looking at what has happened with the offense so far, I think we will see a new approach regarding the retention of aging players in their last years. New blood is what we will be seeking after the collapse of the Ol and the offense last year. Love Tuck but if he wants to maximize his last contract I do not see it happening here.

Agreed.

In comment 11483469 GloryDayz said:

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In comment 11483384 2ndroundKO said: Quote: Period. Without him, DE is a huge question mark. Not to mention how he's already taken discount contracts with us, never once complained; could have easily been the MVP in both SB's, bleeds Giant Blue, is a captain, oh and had a big year last year. We need a DE, but I dont think we "need" Tuck. He had a good & healthy season, but in a contract year, everybody with a name other than Nicks does. I dont think he has much more left in his tank.

What makes you say he doesn't have much more left in the tank? I don't agree. Obviously, front office has to weigh the risk and offer him something with that in mind but the guy played very, very well last year. No reason to think he won't again.

I think its really risky to pay him as an 11 sack DE.

and he knows he's got 1 more shot at a good contract. He had a poor year last year with 1 sack in the first 11 games. I think the next team that gives him a decent contract(and I do think he will get a decent contract because of the # of sacks he had overall)will regret giving him that contract.

After leaving the giants. Not. Tuck same thing. The giants can no longer overpay players and especially those on the downside of their careers. That sort of thing killed us the last couple of years.

tell Tuck to gauge interest and check back with them. They have a number they're willing to spend (which is most likely lower than Tuck thinks he's worth).

Sometimes, FA is a wake-up call for older players.

leaving the Giants.

Osi is a one trick pony who's 1 trick hurts the defense when it's not working. Tuck is at least a guy that can make an impact in the run game and keep a QB in the pocket. He just can't get to the QB nearly enough.

he shows up in big games, and his ability to get pass rush playing inside has been huge for the Giants in both SB runs.

Even prior to his sack-a-thon Tuck was rated the #4 4-3 DE in the league by PFF. He was not having a poor year during those first 11 games AT ALL. Especially considering he was the only DE getting any sort of pressure (being double-teamed while JPP was getting put on his ass by TE's).

Tuck will come cheaper than most of the top FA DE's on the market. And we need that extra cash for a lot of other needs. And we definitely aren't going into the season with a JPP who hasn't been himself in two years, a Kiwi who was terrible last year and a Moore who may or may not be ready.

Tuck was pretty much non-existent for a large part of the season and then got hot against some crappy teams that also decided to forget to block him a few times.

I don't agree. I saw him getting plenty of pressure during the early part of the season. And in the biggest game of the year (against Dallas), he was one of the few to show up and had a key sack, along with getting pressure throughout. So no, I don't agree.

I thought I paid very close attention to the de's last year and I thought they were all terrible and the main reason we were 0-6 and a bad team last year. I don't trust some sites arbitrary number as a sign that Tuck was anything more than a below average DE early in the season and then gained confidence against some garbage teams late in the season. He's always been inconsistent in the past so last year was nothign new, IMO.

pressure, but just couldn't get to the QB early on is ridiculous. He had 1 sack in the first 11 games. He also never ever saw a double team which makes it harder for other guys on the line.

watching the same games? I saw him get double-teamed PLENTY.

NY Giants, blue helmets with an ny on em.

see applying the "over 30 rule" to Tuck.

Any return by Jason has to be ab extremely friendly contract to the Giants....

LOL @ Tuck not being double-teamed (false) making it harder on the rest of the line. How many sacks did they come up with? I bet combined Tuck had more sacks. Guess they were playing different teams.

and he was clearly not making an impact for the majority of the season. None of our DE's were making any impact early on and that allowed teams to do what they want on offense, specifically on 3rd downs when there was no pressure at all. You can LOL all you want, but I'd recommend watching the games again and watching Tuck, he was useless for a large portion of the season.

In comment 11483677 kmed said:

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and he was clearly not making an impact for the majority of the season. None of our DE's were making any impact early on and that allowed teams to do what they want on offense, specifically on 3rd downs when there was no pressure at all. You can LOL all you want, but I'd recommend watching the games again and watching Tuck, he was useless for a large portion of the season.

Tuck was useless a large portion of the season? Yeah, let's just agree to disagree. I'll LOL while you create your own story.

In fact, according to Pro Football Focus, Tuck has been one of the league's best 4-3 defensive ends in 2013 by nearly every metric that they use to evaluate defensive ends. In addition (while it is comparing apples to oranges) Tuck has totaled a cumulative grade of 9.6 on the season across 408 snaps which is good for best on the Giants. While Mike Patterson (2nd highest grade on NYG) has also totaled an impressive 9.1 cumulative grade he has done it across only 231 snaps.

important thing we need from our ends, LOL.

because if he was as good as you are claiming(not even close), they can't let him walk.

I bet the front office will only go by sack numbers (11 of them BTW but they don't count apparently). I bet they don't look at hurries, tackles for loss and containment either. Oh and they definitely don't look at playing well against the run. Nah, you're right, kmed. He's "useless."

useless in pass defense is what I want to go with. He did a good enough job against the run when he could. Time will tell my friend, I'm interested to see what the giants FO thinks and if they will try to keep him. I'm thinking they won't.

In comment 11483716 kmed said:

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useless in pass defense is what I want to go with. He did a good enough job against the run when he could. Time will tell my friend, I'm interested to see what the giants FO thinks and if they will try to keep him. I'm thinking they won't.

Well, looks like the metrics say you're wrong. Then again they look at more than just sacks. Hurries, TFL, etc. That kind of thing. But yeah, run with "useless." And I find it curious that the Giants not keeping him would somehow mean this was true. Strange.

arbitrary numbers. All I know is that the pass rush did nothing to stop the passing game when we needed to and Tuck played a major role in that. Wow, he got close to the QB as he threw a 20 yard pass, sweet. Do they take into consideration how long it took Tuck to get close? Does it take into consideration if he was blocked by a freaking TE? Those are stupid arbitrary numbers. You know what isn't? How many times he actually got to the QB and stopped him. DE's that are having good seasons dont have 1 sack through 2/3 of the season. It's not just really bad luck that he had 1 sack, it's just that he wasn't there.

I watched Tuck during that 0-6 stretch, and he was non existant......10 sacks in the last 5 games, 6 against Washington's line?

The sad part is, all our DE's are questionable....JPP, words don't mean anything....Kiwi? Looks like a shell of what he once was...Moore? An unproven rookie.....Jenkins? Can play DE in a pinch, but not as a starter.....you can make the case he is your best DE.....

So, that leaves Tuck looking for that last big contract.....we have a possible Beatty/Baas situation here.....we need him.....but what is his worth, with his inconsistency and his age and his track record of injuries?

and he was just really unlucky through the first 11 games before he finally exploded against the juggernaut skins team, the Giants cannot let him walk. We are built on getting pressure from our front 4, we can't possibly allow one of the best DE's in the game to walk.

In comment 11483733 kmed said:

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arbitrary numbers. All I know is that the pass rush did nothing to stop the passing game when we needed to and Tuck played a major role in that. Wow, he got close to the QB as he threw a 20 yard pass, sweet. Do they take into consideration how long it took Tuck to get close? Does it take into consideration if he was blocked by a freaking TE? Those are stupid arbitrary numbers. You know what isn't? How many times he actually got to the QB and stopped him. DE's that are having good seasons dont have 1 sack through 2/3 of the season. It's not just really bad luck that he had 1 sack, it's just that he wasn't there.

I see. Only number not arbitrary is sack total apparently. Makes sense.

but yeah. Even sack totals don't tell the whole story. Were they coverage sacks? Did the end beat a double team? I remember a few times Washington just forgot to block Tuck so he had a free shot at RG3. Any DE would have gotten a sack there. If PFF thinks Tuck was one of the best DE's in football, then either PFF sucks at how they judge ends or there were no good ends in the game last year.

In comment 11483824 kmed said:

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but yeah. Even sack totals don't tell the whole story. Were they coverage sacks? Did the end beat a double team? I remember a few times Washington just forgot to block Tuck so he had a free shot at RG3. Any DE would have gotten a sack there. If PFF thinks Tuck was one of the best DE's in football, then either PFF sucks at how they judge ends or there were no good ends in the game last year.

"Forgot" to block Tuck "a few times?" LOL. How many is a few, exactly? And what does forgot mean? Pray, tell.

where tuck wasn't touched off the line and got a sack or two. Simple.

debate that Tuck has declined. There is no way he earned his money the last 3 years.

Am I a fan of Tuck U-Bet!
Do I want him back. Yes! I do but the fact is he is not the player his stat line indicates.

So botton line is I won't overpay for a player who has an injury history as long as Justins and is past his prime and on the decline.

In comment 11483836 kmed said:

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where tuck wasn't touched off the line and got a sack or two. Simple.

A sack or two? Which is it? You said a "few times." Basically diminishing what he did (I wonder how many other DE's accumulated 2 or more sacks against those hapless Redskins BTW). So is "a few times" really mean one time? Three times? Talking out of your ass? Which is it?

In comment 11483852 Vegas Steve said:

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debate that Tuck has declined. There is no way he earned his money the last 3 years. Am I a fan of Tuck U-Bet! Do I want him back. Yes! I do but the fact is he is not the player his stat line indicates. So botton line is I won't overpay for a player who has an injury history as long as Justins and is past his prime and on the decline.

Vegas Steve - I'm a Giants fan first. I don't want us overpaying for Tuck at all. But the idea that he sucked last year (until he played bad teams at the end of the year? WTF?) or was "useless" is so obtuse that I'd love to for someone to back up these statements with real #'s. And telling me "one sack in 11 games" isn't enough when every other statistic is irrelevant to that same person.

Tuck is a "name" and had a pretty decent sack total this past season. That's likely enough to get overpaid by some other team with alot of cap space and no pass rush.

I think it will take a pretty significant hometown discount for him to be back next season.

As a fan, i'm good either way. I appreciate everything he's done but his best days are behind him. I'd like to see Moore get a real shot.

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Too inconsistent, too injury prone, too old.

He'll be lucky to get a single offer over the vet min, and it won't be MUCH over that.

get a decent amount over the veteran minimum

on reputation and his "11 sacks". DE's have lots of value in the NFL, I'm guessing somewhere in the $5 million range.

but this team is moving on and will be in transition for a year or two. I suspect FA will be a wake up call and a little surprising to a 31 y.o. DE with health issues. Tuck may get a 2-3 year offer at his max value, but that's it. Most teams aren't going to gamble after that age. So that's the window he's looking at.

My personal choice would be to find a way to keep Tuck for those 2-3 years, but reality says the price may be too high (there are some crazy spenders out there). Foundation, respect, knowledge transfer -- these could be totally invaluable to the Giants during a transition. From a purely management standpoint I look at JPP and guys like Moore for whom Tuck is an absolute anchor. JPP is awesome (when he's playing of course) and Moore can clearly be something special with the right mentorship. Tuck can be a foundation for fundamentals, basics and respect.

Here's the deal. The Giants have always treated JT with complete respect and compensation. Tuck is not the type of player who will be an also-ran for some other team for 2-3 years for some negligible difference in compensation. If it's a huge difference, he'll go. Let him. Here's my bet and I stand by it. If Tuck signs elsewhere for 2-3 years and is not the #1 or 2 honcho in his new team's defense, he will come back and want to retire as a Giant -- even if it's a formality.

There's money and there's money. But when the net change is negligible, it comes down to pride.

But the past is the beet indicator of the future and to me that says he'll continue to have nagging health issues and will probably only be above average sporadically. This is a "better a year early than a year late" situations. I think they have too many holes to fill to give Tuck the 7-9 mill guaranteed he's likely to seek.

try to keep Tuck or add that money to the Linval Joseph fund? The answer is obvious.

Instead of accepting the Giants x, he goes out to see if someone offers x+y and then comes back to the Giants asking for x+y-n.