# 12 Pick : Who are the candidates as of today?

until the combine..

but I dont see Martin as a 12 at all

want Ebron and go for Offensive line help in FA/2nd - 4th round. Assuming we lose Nicks in FA.. Cruz, Randle, Ebron and JJ could be a nice bunch of weapons for Eli. I would not feel comfortable going into the draft with no quality FA pickups on the Oline

Ebron
Gilbert
Lewan
Mosley
Hageman or Clinton-Dix

First off, here is a list of guys I think have a greater-than-a-50% chance of being available that NYG will have graded in their top 12 overall. (No order)

1 - Taylor Lewan - OT/Michigan
2 - Anthony Barr - LB/UCLA
3 - Justin Gilbert - CB/Oklahoma State
4 - Darqueze Dennard - CB/Michigan State
5 - Kony Ealy - DE/Missouri


Now...I will have grades on players that obviously differ than what NYG has. Here is a rough list of the top 5 guys I have that have a 50%+ chance of being available.

1 - Justin Gilbert - CB/Oklahoma State
2 - Anthony Barr - LB/UCLA
3 - Aaron Donald - DT/Pttsburgh
4 - Calvin Pryor - S/Louisville
5 - Taylor Lewan - OT/Michigan

Maybe it is just me but when I watch him I do not see why everyone is talking about him as a consideration for the Giants at #12. I know he is an OL and our OL sucked last year, but the more I watch him he looks like a decent RT in the NFL and I am not sure Pugh can play LT and needs to get stronger to face DT's as an interior OL. I am wondering if it wouldn't be better to just wait until Round 2 and select someone like Morgan Moses or I think Cyrus Kouandjio drops on draft day as teams realize he is not a LT in the NFL and his scheme in college masked some of his wekanesss but in Round 2 you gamble on that upside

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgY1-xjk4E

Whoops here
Ebron - ( New Window )

Mike Evans should be in the conversation.

separation in the NFL. He scares me in that way. He has such a big body for a WR and he could be that big target that Eli needs. Just not sure.

Pugh cannot play LT. His feet alone make him a LT. A little muscle in the offseason and he'll have the feet and power.
I still think Zack Martin was the best looking OT I saw in the bowl games, plus the fact he can play either side and guard.

Jernigan on their board.

I'd go with...

1-Zack Martin OT/OG
2-Cyrus Kouandjio OT
3-David Yankey OG
4-Eric Ebron TE
5-Marquise Lee WR
6-RaShede Hageman DE/DT
7-Stephon Tuitt DE/DT
8-Justin Gilbert CB
9-Calvin Pryor S
10-Alex Mack OLB/DE

I have to believe when all is said and done, Yankey with be a big part of the conversation. Every year, interior linemen seem to be valuyed more than the previous year.

would be nice as well. Plus, I'm on a roll this morning, you mentioned 5, and I put out 10. Gotta get some coffee.

In comment 11509929 section125 said:

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Pugh cannot play LT. His feet alone make him a LT. A little muscle in the offseason and he'll have the feet and power. I still think Zack Martin was the best looking OT I saw in the bowl games, plus the fact he can play either side and guard.

Because he is not protecting Eli's blindside Eli can see when the DE opposite Pugh has used his (the DE's) arm length to lock on to Pugh and gain leverage. That would be exposed moving him to LT because Eli would not see it coming and he can get skittish when he is expecting something to come even when it isn't. Although technically sound, he needs to be playing on the QB's frontside if he is playing OT

was beaten (especially late in the year) and speed rushers can't get around him. I think you are worrying too much about an inch of arm length. His agility is more important to out maneuver a Demarcus Ware or Trent Cole than an inch of arm length - far more important. The guy just glides.

Anthony Barr
Sammy Watkins
Khalil Mack

and I doubt any of them will fall us - even if they did, I'm not sure the Giants think they'd fit in their system.

I always want to trade down in a draft, but this year I think it's an imperative: the real value is in the 15-20 range:

Gilbert
Dennard
Lewan
Martin
Evans

We've historically done well with our 2nd round picks (with a couple of notable exceptions), so I'd hope we could collect an additional one by moving down in the first round. Travis Swanson and one of the four legitimate OG studs will be available then for re-tooling our porous interior OL.

Dennard, Lewan, Hageman to name six ... those first three figure to be high on the list at #12.

Careful with that neck..;)

!

and good balance...balance would be key if you want to hit a very athletic DE or 3/4lb in the face.

worthy of the 112th pick. And, I would not count on Beatty for next year. he had a disappointing season and is coming off a major injury.

Evans - Not a fan of him at #12.

right tackle or guard, that is worth the 12.

and, if overall BPA, or a fair guess at it, is a pure left tackle, fine, that is also worth the 12.

however, I wont throw the remote if its a corner.

but that has to be one hell of a corner.

and I too would prefer to hedge against Beatty with a pick in the first two rounds of this draft.

But, I suspect Ealy, Evans, or Gilbert will be the pick in that order of preference.

over Evans at the 12 spot.

come back one year and play decent corner, re-sign TT, maybe simplify what our corners do, and if wilson plays.

however, I would still draft OL.

You need to build from the core at this point to solidify the future.

counting on Webster and/or Ross given their play in recent times is very risky, especially knowing a lot of their issues are related to confidence and desire to actually play football.

the idea of a TE at 12. Question for you though regarding Ebron--is he a difference maker at TE? A game-changer? Because that's who I want at 12 at a talent position. If not, I want a ten-year anchor on the line at 12.

Reason I ask is because Ebron looked good in those clips. Like late first round good. And as usual, I'm qualifying with "by those clips" and "in my limited viewing of him".

If he runs well (4.5), he may be a Vernon Davis type (that's who they are comparing him to). Fix the O-line, and I think you can build an offense around him. I don't watch a ton of CFB, but when I saw Ebron- He looks like the best player on the field type of player. That's just me.


COMPARES TO: Vernon Davis, TE, San Francisco 49ers - Freaky athletic specimens, both Ebron and Davis move like wide receivers, but have the size and length of tight ends to create mismatches in coverage.

--Dane Brugler (1/7/14)

might be even more fluid/smooth than Davis. Not to take anything away from Davis, but Ebron looks even more natural out in the slot like a WR. He would be a huge weapon in this offense and could help take pressure off our WR's.

is a bad idea. Based on the performance of the OL last year, any 1st round TE will spend a disproportionate amount of time being used to pass protect because this OL cannot get it done.

I am not sure people realize how bad this OLine was and is. The only player you can really feel comfortable with as a starter is Pugh. Maybe we can squeeze one or two more years out of Boothe. But Diehl is gone, Baas and Snee are done, Brewer certainly did not earn a starting spot based on last year's performance. Beatty underachieved and is coming off a major injury. The rest of the OL, with the exception of Cordle (coming of mcl surgery) were life preservers picked up during the season out of emergency need.

BPA is a sound theory and you don't reach for players out of need but, make no mistake about it - the OL is in its' worst shape since Eli got here. Based on the available talent I just do not see how an OL player won't be available and worthy of the 12th pick.

is a great idea.

- Opposing NFL QBs and wrs.

Webster has had too injuries and may very well have lost the desire to play and Ross may be done as well. Maybe Ross as a 5th or 6th CB, nothing more.

In comment 11510111 bc4life said:

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is a bad idea. Based on the performance of the OL last year, any 1st round TE will spend a disproportionate amount of time being used to pass protect because this OL cannot get it done. I am not sure people realize how bad this OLine was and is. The only player you can really feel comfortable with as a starter is Pugh. Maybe we can squeeze one or two more years out of Boothe. But Diehl is gone, Baas and Snee are done, Brewer certainly did not earn a starting spot based on last year's performance. Beatty underachieved and is coming off a major injury. The rest of the OL, with the exception of Cordle (coming of mcl surgery) were life preservers picked up during the season out of emergency need. BPA is a sound theory and you don't reach for players out of need but, make no mistake about it - the OL is in its' worst shape since Eli got here. Based on the available talent I just do not see how an OL player won't be available and worthy of the 12th pick.

Forcing the Giants to only re-stock the OL through premium picks on the OL is a worse idea than picking the best players they can. That's called drafting for need.

The Giants will address the OL through free agency, too. They will absolutely need to draft at least 1 OL, but that doesn't mean they should solely focus on one area of need in the draft, when there are a lot of holes and a lot of different ways to improve your football team.

Adding another offensive weapon who can be moved all over the field and requires attention is not a bad idea.

In comment 11510111 bc4life said:

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is a bad idea. Based on the performance of the OL last year, any 1st round TE will spend a disproportionate amount of time being used to pass protect because this OL cannot get it done. I am not sure people realize how bad this OLine was and is. The only player you can really feel comfortable with as a starter is Pugh. Maybe we can squeeze one or two more years out of Boothe. But Diehl is gone, Baas and Snee are done, Brewer certainly did not earn a starting spot based on last year's performance. Beatty underachieved and is coming off a major injury. The rest of the OL, with the exception of Cordle (coming of mcl surgery) were life preservers picked up during the season out of emergency need. BPA is a sound theory and you don't reach for players out of need but, make no mistake about it - the OL is in its' worst shape since Eli got here. Based on the available talent I just do not see how an OL player won't be available and worthy of the 12th pick.

TE @ #12 only if we sign 2 OL in free agency and spend a #2 on the OL.

In comment 11510114 bc4life said:

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is a great idea. - Opposing NFL QBs and wrs. Webster has had too injuries and may very well have lost the desire to play and Ross may be done as well. Maybe Ross as a 5th or 6th CB, nothing more.

Webster's contract was voided and Aaron Ross is a UFA, so right now, we can't count on either of them. CB is another position that would be great in the first couple rounds.

WR Evans
CB Gilbert
OT Lewan
TE Ebron
CB Dennard

I think the pick will be CB

I did not say use all premium picks or restock completely through the draft. I said given the need, yes need, emergency need, and the talent available - I do not see how they could not pick an OL in Round 1.

Need is viable drafting starting as is BPA, both have to be taken into consideration.

I would expect them to make some moves through FA. That is an absolute necessity. Doubt it will be enough.

But, I would expect the # 1 pick to be an OL. Possibly CB as that is also a major need. DE a remote possibility but they had better get it right.

Playmakers regardless of where they get moved around to on the field will not be effective if Eli does not have the time to throw or the offense cannot generate enough of a run game to make the play action a viable option. Hey, that reminds me - they can also use an rb or two...

But have watched Evans play - good player - absolutely. Dez Bryant type impact for the offense. I wouldn't bet on it.

Pugh played LT in college.. he has the feet of an LT.. he could play LT quite easily..

People are worried about Evans getting separation. There is more than one way to get separation. His immense size will help that tremendously... Someone of his size wont need as much separation as another receiver might.

I think drafting a OT in round one would be a mistake. The Giants most critical needs is at the G position. Beatty isnt going anywhere at least for a few years with his contract.. and he isnt moving to the right side.. so your drafting a RIGHT tackle @ #12 ???? There will be more impact players and positions.

CB is a huge need for this team.. its even bigger than the OL issue.. You need a solid core player on the opposite side of Prince and the Giants DO NOT have that.. I fully expect the Giants to draft a CB in round one.. unless someone like Barr is there.. or by some miracle.. Watkins..

The Giants will address the OL in FA.. thats their pattern.. They will most likely go for a Guard and the veteran tackle..

not starting

I don't know what to think about Evans. But, I don't think he's anywhere near the specimen Dez is. His 40 time will be very interesting to watch.

Sign Pitta, he is a ready made weapon, QB friendly and a proven clutch performer.

Sign Pitta.

Draft Gilbert and then a stud OG/OLT in rd 2.

That we'll know more about after the combine. Clearly, he's a very good football player, but I think he's one of the few that could really propel his draft stock with a good combine.

Pattern may get broken this year - cannot remember OL playing this poorly.

CB is a huge need, although I expect Hosley to have a good year.

If he's not there, I'd go Gilbert to match up with Dez, etc. Gilbert is a rare specimen at CB, size, speed, hips, the whole deal.

Beatty may not even be ready to play this year.

In comment 11510185 bc4life said:

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Beatty may not even be ready to play this year.

He had a broken tibia with no ligament damage. He will be back for 2014.

At 6'4" 245, he isn't exactly your imposing physical specimen like Gonzalez, Graham or Gronkowski. Those guys are all 6'6"+ 260+. So unless Ebron falls into the elite athlete category, like Vernon Davis, he's not worth the 12th overall pick. And judging by the highlights, he's no physical freak like Vernon Davis.

There are some impressive physical specimens that you can get in round 2 or 3. Austin Sefarian-Jenkins, Troy Niklas, CJ Fiedorowicz. Perhaps they're not as polished as receivers, but they are big guys that have the potential to develop into legitimate targets at TE.

In comment 11510190 Superman10 said:

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At 6'4" 245, he isn't exactly your imposing physical specimen like Gonzalez, Graham or Gronkowski. Those guys are all 6'6"+ 260+. So unless Ebron falls into the elite athlete category, like Vernon Davis, he's not worth the 12th overall pick. And judging by the highlights, he's no physical freak like Vernon Davis. There are some impressive physical specimens that you can get in round 2 or 3. Austin Sefarian-Jenkins, Troy Niklas, CJ Fiedorowicz. Perhaps they're not as polished as receivers, but they are big guys that have the potential to develop into legitimate targets at TE.

Don't forget Jace Amaro who is like 6'5" 260. Ebron reminds me more of Black Unicorn than VD. Not a fan of Sefarian-Jenkins. For his size he is not the dominant force you'd expect

Roy Williams. A big pass on that guy!

If his three cone and his speed check out that is the guy for me. A big quick corner is rare and I agree with above is my pick also

a top young C (Mack or Deitrich-Smith) and either Vontae Davis or Rodgers-Cromartie in FA? At that point you get to draft BPA. So who is that?

I'd likely go Gilbert or Ebron, but Zach Martin would still be in the mix for me depending upon his Combine...and ideally after a trade down.

If anything's been proven the last several years, it's that you can find quality TE prospects in later rounds. Also, it's not like the TEs picked high have set the NFL on fiyah.

I'm much rather grab a guy like Austin Seferian-Jenkins in the 3rd round.

and if not settle for Fiedorowicz.

In comment 11510249 Modus Operandi said:

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If anything's been proven the last several years, it's that you can find quality TE prospects in later rounds. Also, it's not like the TEs picked high have set the NFL on fiyah. I'm much rather grab a guy like Austin Seferian-Jenkins in the 3rd round.

Which late round TE's are you referring to?

is one of the corners. Use FA to address the OL, LB and TE spots and then fortify the OL with a pick in the 2nd or 3rd along with addressing WR.

Of course, it's all based on value but at this point the value should be there at 12 (CB) and 43 (OL).

In comment 11510259 Giantology said:

Quote:

In comment 11510249 Modus Operandi said: Quote: If anything's been proven the last several years, it's that you can find quality TE prospects in later rounds. Also, it's not like the TEs picked high have set the NFL on fiyah. I'm much rather grab a guy like Austin Seferian-Jenkins in the 3rd round. Which late round TE's are you referring to?

Rob Gronkowski - 2nd round
Jimmy Graham - 3rd round
Aaron Hernandez - 4th round
Denis Pitta - 4th round
Kyle Rudolph - 2nd round
Jorden Cameron - 4th round
Julius Thomas - 4th round
Dwayne Allen - 3rd round

Now take a look at the first round TEs everyones been clammoring for and tell me it's worth taking a TE high in the first.

team, (to be used at end mostly here..but never say never)

(and, double sidebar, don't admire the idea of the DE/LB tweeners like most of us now, yet who are rampant if you look at the light weights of many DEs in college now)

...I don't see the need being as great as the need for OL.

and - feel that the uniqueness of the best 2 or 3 corners may 'weigh more' in the ratio of rush vs. cover.

Translation, its OL vs [some unusual B.P.A.]...and corner has the inside edge to be that unusual B.P.A. ...only if one like that is there.

As pretend GM, I would probably do the OL anyway...but that's just me. I have a bias towards overloading in the draft, certain years for certain units.

and as Mr. Mara said, the O is broken.

CBS makes him sound like a poor mans sefarian-jenkins

the question is: will he drop low enough to fit into a rational order of priorities?

but a better blocker:

(cbs)

''STRENGTHS: Good versatility, showing the ability to come off a down block to get past defenders as a receiver. Good body control and soft hands for such a large man, traits that have led Washington junior Austin Seferian-Jenkins to earn a lot of attention as a possible first-round pick. Fiedorowicz isn't as flashy as ASJ, but he's just as big and fast in a straight-line and is a much more physical and attentive blocker.
--Dane Brugler ''

In comment 11510282 Modus Operandi said:

Quote:

In comment 11510259 Giantology said: Quote: In comment 11510249 Modus Operandi said: Quote: If anything's been proven the last several years, it's that you can find quality TE prospects in later rounds. Also, it's not like the TEs picked high have set the NFL on fiyah. I'm much rather grab a guy like Austin Seferian-Jenkins in the 3rd round. Which late round TE's are you referring to? Rob Gronkowski - 2nd round Jimmy Graham - 3rd round Aaron Hernandez - 4th round Denis Pitta - 4th round Kyle Rudolph - 2nd round Jorden Cameron - 4th round Julius Thomas - 4th round Dwayne Allen - 3rd round Now take a look at the first round TEs everyones been clammoring for and tell me it's worth taking a TE high in the first.

It's really not fair in this instance to use the past to assess present/future drafts when it comes to the TE position. The position is becoming more valuable and flexible in the way it's being utilized and guys like Graham/Hernandez/Cameron have set a blue print to where guys with that toolset will rarely be found in the 3rd round anymore. The TE position is becoming more valuable.

Also, it's incredibly unfair to use Gronk as an example because the only reason he wasn't a first round pick was because of injury concerns. For what it's worth, I'm also on the Niklas in the 2nd round bandwagon so I don't mind if we skip TE in the first.

That still leaves an inordinate amount of pro-bowl TEs selected later than the first round.

A good TE is inherently a generalist. He needs to be a factor both in the passing game as well as a blocker. People here fall in love with the Coby Fleeners of college football - guys who are really WRs first and clammor for Reese to soend a pick there.

All I'm saying is that there will be guys there in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds who'll be undervalued because they aren't Antonio Gates in the passing game. Those are the guys we should be targeting later. Give me a cornerstone guy at a premium position in the first any day of the week.

But Fleener really isn't in the same class as Ebron or Jace. I agree that a good TE is a generalist, but it's not as if Ebron/Jace are useless as blockers. The reason why these guys are so highly touted is because they are so lethal/flexible in the passing game, while being capable blockers. They are more than just generalists. Being equally good is nice, but it's no different than a DE making his money off rushing the passer and being solid in the run game.

I don't think you're going to see guys like Cameron/Graham/Julius in the later rounds anymore. Guys with that size and speed combo at that position flourished in the NFL so they automatically raise on draft boards. It's the same reason why a guy like Jean-Baptiste is getting so much love because of Richard Shermand and Ziggy Ansah because of JPP.

But as I said, I'm a huge Niklas fan and he's an absolute fucking monster when it comes to blocking. He's a generalist with a high ceiling.

A matter of semantics. I thought you meant "late round" picks as in 5, 6, 7 -- the later rounds of the draft.

Their are some who are comparing him to Vernon Davis, and he was drafted 6th overall.

counts a bit more than at TE.

TE also demands some system-think- in sync with the qb, an offense oriented mind.

Having said that, TE is for sure, as said above, a last bastion of generalists of yore, the 'big ass tough footballers'..

then, back again to system-thinkers, seeing guys like Pascoe wiff on blocks, or a rookie that does not start, you dont want total dunderheads.

late round dropping 'too skinny left tackles', as projects to go back to tight end.

but that was based on a belief that we would not draft enough at blocking tight end...a desperation move. and, although we didn't, those sorts of projects, consensus here, are often wasted anyway.

This draft may turn out deep at real TE's in any case.

turns out to be a CB

In comment 11510327 Big Blue '56 said:

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turns out to be a CB

I agree for the most part. Just makes sense from a cost perspective. I like some of these FA CBs, but it's just not the smart way to handle the cap to splurge on premium positions in FA. The plus side though is that there are a few CBs that could fall to us in later rounds.

It's well documented that Verrett has all the talent in the world but could still fall come draft day because of his size, or lack thereof. He would be a steal in the 2nd. Then there are highly talented CBs like Fuller and Aaron Colvin but will fall because of injuries.

Basically, I just hope we don't force anything. No matter which route we take in the first, we'll have options to address other needs in the next round or two.

In comment 11510125 pa_giant_fan said:

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WR Evans CB Gilbert OT Lewan TE Ebron CB Dennard I think the pick will be CB

Now I am not saying Dennard will be the absolute lockdown corner Revis is/was. However I think he has alot of similiarities in just a natural feel for the game and great football IQ. He isn't going to test off the charts but neither did Revis.

Also revisionist history has many believing that Revis was universally thought of can't miss shutdown CB. Well if that's the case ,he wouldn't have been picked 14th, he's going top 5.

In comment 11510311 Giantology said:

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A matter of semantics. I thought you meant "late round" picks as in 5, 6, 7 -- the later rounds of the draft.

No worries. I wasnt real clear in my initial post.

He's a freak. We need a freak.

1. Lewan makes the most sense as LT is critical and I don't expect Beatty back this year, at least not a full strength. Unless you can move Pugh over, LT is going be high on the shopping list.

2. Evans does not make sense in that we have Cruz and Randle. What would we do with Evans? Add that to the fact that we still need to keep Eli upright and in one piece.

3. Ebron - again, first order of business is the o-line and unless this OC plans on making the TE an integral part of the passing game, Ebron would be understandble only if Beatty is coming back at 100%.

4. Martin - makes the most sense as he can play T or G.

5. Dennard - makes the next best pick IMO because we are dangersouly thin at CB.

Gilbert is the best pick because he is also a great KR.He is the best cover return guy since Deon,I love this guy.
If Gibert is gone I would go with Ebron,he can be a very good pick for us,reminds me of Gonzalez with bigger hands.
If both are gone the most impact a player we can take is Marquis Lee he is a bonafide home run thread we haven't had since Homer Jones.This guys flys and runs great routes and is the toughest blocker at his puny weight in the game a real tough guy who also is a great returner.

In comment 11510234 Carl in CT said:

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If his three cone and his speed check out that is the guy for me. A big quick corner is rare and I agree with above is my pick also

FWIW, I have no concerns about either of those. I expect Gilbert to run in the 4.3s in Indy.

1-Gilbert-DB/KR
1-b-Mack-OLB
1-c-Ebron-TE
2-Shazier-MLB
2-b-Becham-WR/KR
3-Sankey-RB

I heard McShay yesterday talking about him. He watched all the coaches game film of Barr - every snap, and said after seeing all the snaps he is not a top 10 player. Thinks he will be moving down to the 20's

He also said Gilbert was almost mentioned as being close to 6-1 and he is under 6'

Get a CB or trade down

In comment 11510125 pa_giant_fan said:

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WR Evans CB Gilbert OT Lewan TE Ebron CB Dennard I think the pick will be CB

I'm very big on Gilbert at 12th, as a Prince-Gilbert tandem would be excellent... but not so much on Lewan or Ebron with the 12th, and certainly not Dennard... too confused too often. If Matthews falls to 12th by some strange bend in the universe, he's the only OT I'd take at 12th. I don't see a Guard at 12th either... quality Guards in 2nd and in FA. So who at 12th besides Gilbert... Nicks ought to be gone, and Watkins won't make it half way to 12... so I'd like to see the anticipated early run on QBs not materialize, thereby creating a big demand for JR to trade down to get Kelvin Benjamin and extra picks. I just get the sense that Eli and Benjamin would develop a real big target connection not seen since Plax... great height and weight at 6'5" 235lbs, with exceptional speed for his size, who makes spectacular catches in traffic, and is very tough to bring down... ok, so he needs work in the route running dept. McAdoo will fix that. I just like the idea of Randel, Cruz, Benjamin, and Jernigan... add in Austin Seferian-Jenkins at TE, and Jeremy Hill at RB. With a solid O-Line in front of him, Eli would be going crazy... hey, a guy can dream.

shore up CB and OL in FA. He's a Reese/Ross type of pick. High upside but some bust potential. I'm not crazy about the pick, because this team needs someone who can make an immediate impact, and Ealy looks really raw.

The Giants have said that they won't gamble as much this year, but can a leopard change its spots? Defensive End, strong pass rusher, gotta have him?

Rank Dennard as the top CB in this draft. While I like Gilbert, I think Dennard is the better fit for our scheme versatile defense.

So does Daniel Jeremiah. I don't know who does the grades for NFL.com, but they've got a higher grade on Gilbert, too, as do the folks at DraftNasty. At the end of the day, though, the only grades that matter are the ones the Giants have.

fried a couple times in the Rose Bowl, not sure I'd want him at #12.

Dennard the more physical defender and tackler of the two.

In comment 11513011 GmenDynasty said:

Quote:

Rank Dennard as the top CB in this draft. While I like Gilbert, I think Dennard is the better fit for our scheme versatile defense.

Great analysis. Who's the better fit when it comes to our complicated zone blocking schemes?

watching the superbowl and championship games only affirmed what i thought throughout the season they NEED to spend 2 early picks (first 4 rounds on OL) they need to fix the OL if they wish to compete.they have some depth at DL but the OL is a shambles

right now the only OL i would keep of the current roster would be pugh,beatty,brewer and maybe cordell/boothe for backups they need a OT,OG and C right now .

i would figure one free agent and 2 draft picks only OT picked early really work out (beatty was a second round choice and it shows) they need a week 1 starter at OT you only get that at the top of round 1. i would like another playmaker/skill player but they have too many needs for that

they drafted 3 CB in the early rounds last couple of years
,i too would like another CB but they need to find one in the mid-late rounds.

if they dont resign beason which would be an epic mistake they may need to go LB in round 1 or 2 assuming the talent is worth that when they pick if not spend the first 2 picks on the OL and maybe look for a late round guy (another diehl type 5th rounder is needed again)

the bronco's loss showed it doent matter how good your QB and WR are if you dont get enough time/space to throw.

they were shutout again this year (twice) that was on the OL. i blame this on that QB tradeup last year we should have taken the OL arizona took with our traded pick there and used the other pick on a LB instead of a QB that did nothing for the team and probably never will

if they can get OT,LB,OG,OC,CB,RB,TE between the draft and free agency the picks from last couple of years can play their way into the lineup and get a few of the free agents/injuries back they are not too badly off

if they lose too many free agents look for another season like the one we just suffered and a similar pick again next year

they need to cut the deadwood they didnt last year diehl,snee,baas and have a few over paid guys like rolle and eli to help them, pref with cuts instead of restructures which only make the pain worse later, or this team could be stuck in cap/rebuilding mode for years this team isnt far away as they have showed when they put it all together.

they do need to bite the bullet and retool the OL first fill the holes after that where they can and try to keep the better of the FA around where they can. this is going to be a difficult offseason and reese needs to hit the homerun picks in the draft/FA this year, too many havent worked out the last couple of drafts or been what they hoped they would,that has led to 2 losing seasons now

beason was an inspired pickup but only if they can keep hold of him long term

I would like any of these guys if available in the 12 spot. If not available then I want us to trade down and get more picks but only move down if we collect 2nd and 3rd round picks. I would not pick OG in the 12 spot since a stud OG should be available in the 2nd round.

OLB - Barr or Mack
OT - Matthews, Robinson, Kouandijo
WR - Watkins
CB - Gilbert
TE - Ebron
DE - Clowney

Gilbert
Ebron
Pryor
Lewan
Mosley

Barr's a 3-4 OLB, Mack's not a 4-3 MIKE, so it tends to go across the value grain of Reese's philosophy.

there are at least a few teams that think mack is the best defensive player in the draft, and that he can play 8 different positions (all 3 43 LB positions, all 4 34 LB positions and elephant DE in a 43 like SEA)

In comment 11513274 JonC said:

Quote:

Barr's a 3-4 OLB, Mack's not a 4-3 MIKE, so it tends to go across the value grain of Reese's philosophy.

Although, Rumor Control had it that the Giants would have drafted Rolando McClain, had he not gone earlier to Oakland. So who knows?

But I'm really warming to Mosley.

NYG viewed him as a 4-3 MIKE (I think he was pretty clearly best suited to 3-4 ILB).

then the questions @ the MIKE are answered. Barr and Mack are probably off the board. That leaves you with OL/CB/WR/TE as the positions in play @ 12. That's based on team needs and prospects worthy of the #12 slot. I don't include DE as I don't see the value.

Mathews, Robinson and Watkins will be long gone. So the top 5 you're realistically looking at are...

OT Lewan
CB Gilbert
CB Dennard
WR Evans
TE Ebron

Zack Martin is an interesting case. I see him as a future All Pro Guard but am less impressed with him as an OT prospect. He played well outside in Mobile but IMO it's a weak crop of pass rushing DE's this year. He is versatile and will have a good career. Good enough for the @12 pick? Ask Jerry Reese.

I'd draft Gilbert. I'd look long and hard @ Lewan if he's there. Eli is the franchise. Gilbert could be special. He's a proven player @ a critical position of need. Prototype build and athletically dynamic. Playmaking history with INT TD returns, FF's and deadly on special teams as a KO returner with 6 TD's.

...another high floor prospect....the question for me if the ceiling...how high does it go? Hard to gauge that playing on such a loaded unit. What I don't see is a really physical player...and that bothers me this high in the draft.

prefer, at least with a pick as high as 12. Should be a solid LB but I don't think he represents great value at 12.

Shouldn't we go after a more impact position? I really wonder how the NFL Combine will change things around.

By the way, has anyone paid attention to the Regional Combine for NY/NJ? Any sleeper prospects?

The injury scares me, but he's a load to deal with when healthy. Would not mind the pick if everything checks out with him and LinJo walks. My list would probably be (in no order)

Ebron
Nix
Gilbert
Lewan
Evans

it would be nearly impossible to justify. Mosley belongs squarely as a 4-3 ILB, who has space to work with.

He just seems like such a sure thing, as Torraq said, a high-floor guy.

I just wish the value was there at DE/OT.

The NFL is evolving and a TE if he's that good should be considered. Of course this assumes that the Oline is already addressed.

CB/TE/OL are the 3 positions I think the Giants will look at most in round 1.

In comment 11513558 wigs in nyc said:

Quote:

it would be nearly impossible to justify. Mosley belongs squarely as a 4-3 ILB, who has space to work with. He just seems like such a sure thing, as Torraq said, a high-floor guy. I just wish the value was there at DE/OT.

I see Mosley as a competent player, but nothing more. Sort of like what folks have been saying about Martin. Not a guy I'd be happy with at 12.

but I want Kony.

In comment 11513609 Motley Blue said:

Quote:

but I want Kony.

It'll be interesting to see whether his status will change after the Combine. Ealy is the kind of guy who could put up great numbers there. Of course, that doesn't make him a football player.

I think Dennard is clearly a notch below Gilbert.

Dennard is a poor tackler and has a history of injuries. I think the injuries will ultimately hurt his draft stock and I think he'll drop to the second round.

Gilbert is a bit bigger and we know the NYG prefer their corners long (6'+). Gilbert excels in run support and while, I wouldnt say he's a hitter, he's excellent in shedding WR blocks and wrapping up the tackle. The other area where Gilbert shines is his fluidness and burst in coverage. He's got much better ball skills. Throw in his skills as a kick returner, and he's the better player.

I think there's two DBs I'd consider spending a first on - Gilbert and Calvin Pryor. Both will be cornerstones of a defensive backfield.

otherwise, look at OT or DT.

ahead of the DB's not from Oregon.

That's what the pick will be. It's Reese's M.O.

In comment 11514015 JonC said:

Quote:

otherwise, look at OT or DT.

I'll say this, Jon. If they let Joseph go only to draft another DT at 12 I'll be really pissed. You don't build a team by replacing one 24-year old starter with a 22-year old rookie. That's sure no way to develop depth and add to a young core.

In principal, I agree. In reality, in a cap league, such financial decisions need to be made, especially with a team that has so many holes to fill.

Spending $6M per on a young DT that hasn't really been an impact player of that caliber is suspect, as we've seen with Beatty.

LJ was a big part of that. Inseerting a rookie into the DT rotation would be a step back. Could he price himself into another jersey? Sure but let's hope it doesn't come to that.

makes a huge UFA offer? I don't see the value in LJ, as I didn't see it in Beatty either. They gave Beatty the money, but DTs are "easier" to find than LTs. Big questions too easily swept aside by fans.

A DT at #12 doesn't make sense. Lock up LJ.

because they're virtually capped out and it's a bad football team with a ton of holes on tap.

They can create significant cap space, as we've detailed here for months, but even then the financial decisions remain vital. If they re-sign LJ for $6M per, I can get behind the decision as he is a promising young player and it suggests they can find the space for that contract structure.

and they decide LJ isn't worth a market-rate second contract. It might be a step back but this is a bad football team in a tight financial spot, they might sacrifice such a player for a cost-controlled rookie.

if not, then I am really interested in, and in no order, CB, TE, S or WR.

I am intrigued by Ebron and will see how he and Jace Amaro do at the combine. I would like a stud TE that can be highly productive for us. I am tired TEs coming and going. Let's draft one and hope he can contribute right away.

If LinJo is out of our price range. You don't want to overpay guys because you'll always get burned in the end. I'd love for him to stay, but I'm not rolling out the red carpet for him either. I said last offseason that we overpaid for Beatty and got absolutely hammered for it.

In a perfect world, I'd like to have LinJo back on a fair deal so we are solid at DT for the next few years and can address other pressing needs at #12. But we don't live in a perfect world, so I'm ready for whatever happens.

draft a DT in the later rounds, or see if an undrafted FA can make it. We can always sign a FA if need be. Ideally, I don't mind paying LinJo. He earned it, and it stabilizes the center of our defense.

That we might end up being a position to where Giants fan can only hope Ebron will be there at #12 come draft day. The Ebron bandwagon has been getting a lot of steam and that will only be increase if he answers a lot of questions at the Combine physically.

I think it's going to be fairly obvious who we're going to be targeting in round 1 once FA rolls around. There's going to be a position that needs to be addressed that wasn't addressed adequately in FA.

This time limit is fucking brutal.

Ugh.

Still.

Waiting.

I think he'll follow the money (much more than the Giants will offer him) straight out of town...maybe even right down I-95 to Washington. We'll see.

I would expect them to sign another lower-priced DT to add to their rotation. I can see them re-signing Mike Patterson to another short-term deal. He played well for them last year - a lot better than I expected - and he'll come cheap. I'm not a big fan of Markus Kuhn, but if he's healthy he'll get another shot this summer.

In the draft, unless someone they really covet falls to them unexpectedly, I don't see them using a high pick on a DT. Instead, I figure they'll pull the trigger on a late-rounder with the proverbial upside. Not necessarily a project, per se, but an unfinished product, if you will. Bromley from Syracuse and Stephen from UCONN come to mind.

One of the CB, OT, DE should be there for us.

either.

Really don't want that, but I'll have to defer to JR on that one. He certainly knows how to evaluate pass rushers in his sleep better than I can on my best day. I was surprised when Mayock as more physical than Aldon. From what I've seen, Kony seems to float a bit throughout games. Has a good head on his shoulders though.

like a young dude who has yet to realize how talented he is, he's got skills to grow into. I'd be very interested to watch him go through a pro scouting workout.

wagon so to speak. I want a play making TE that we can utilize to attack the middle of the field more often. I realized after this season, I miss Shockey. He was a fool, but a good player for us.

We need play makers on offense. Right now we have 1 play maker in Cruz, and he is coming back from injury. After that we have no one. We lack speed too on offense which I have talked about. Cruz is the only guy who can score from anywhere. He is our only home run hitter. After that, we have no one.

If Ebron checks out and has a great combine, I'd want us to go OL first obviously, but if not, I am happy to advocate for Ebron as our pick. I am also happy to go, and this is in no order, Cb, WR, and S. So I am open to different picks, but OL first and then Ebron is a player I really like.

is a bad business decision, IMO. Only way I consider it is if there are no premium position players(WR, OT, DE, DT, LB maybe) that we like.

on the field. If this guy is the real deal and can contribute the business aspect will work itself out . The cap guys are paid to manage the cap and work with Reese to see who stays and who goes.

If the guy is productive and can ball I don't care what position he is. We have no one at TE. So there would be a great balance between need and value. Moreover, like I said, I'd want OL first and after that the other positions I listed would suffice and I'd like a lot.

Mosley
Gilbert
Dennard
Marqise Lee

Couldn't think of a 5th,we'll see if the Teflon Turtleneck selects one of them.

Lile yhe idea of trading down to 18/20, picking up like a 2nd and a 4th and taking Martin. I love versatility at OL. We would have TWO guys who could feadibly kick inside in him and Pugh

would require a reasonable #2, or it's not likely to be worth it. NYG figures to get a very good football player at #12 in this draft.

And signing Adam DS and Asamoah in FA

A good OT in this draft and say Niklas in the 2nd would make for one happy chopper.

According to the trade value chart, trading down from #12 to #20 would net us #20's 2nd round pick. #20 happens to be Arizona, who could use a QB. If they fall in love with a guy during the process, I can see it happening. There are rumors that they are targeting Ben Roethlisberger though so who knows.

but it tends to be a different dynamic when you're on the clock.

Last year, I would've traded down instead of drafting Pugh. But, the team clearly felt very strongly about the dude and quickly pulled the trigger. I'd be surprised if they traded down.

without knowing exactly who the Giants are targetting and who they really want. If there's someone available at 12 that they don't want to risk losing, they will draft him despite it being a bit of a reach.

"I'd prefer the Giants to trade down, get 3 extra picks, and still select the player they were targeting"

Enough already.