I see a lot of talk about drafting a top Left Tackle at number 12, but what does that mean for our current roster?
Beatty is too soft to play RT and his contract is too big for us to cut him.
Do we keep him at LT, slide Pugh inside to Guard or Center and let the rookie play RT for a year or two?
If anything, I think Pugh is our LT of the future.
Coughlin pretty much already told you Pugh will be on the outside left or right, but not on the interior. You can't cut, trade or bench Beatty realistically. Maybe you can move him to the right but I doubt that even happens.
I think Beatty is given another chance at LT where he has had some success and maybe they bring in a vet for some insurance/competition. The interior of the line needs to be solidified, I think it will be, and I think you'll see it will make a big difference for the tackles.
Joseph, Hill, Beason, Amukamara, Pugh, McBride, Tuck, Jenkins... ?
As for the LT spot.. it'll work itself out. If the Giants really like Lewan they won't skip on him because of Beatty. If last year was an aberration for Beatty and he gets back to playing solid ball, maybe someone slides inside. If he keeps struggling, maybe he gets cut in 2015.. maybe someone gets hurt. A bunch of different things could happen.
It's a tough situation to be in with that big contract they gave him.
If they can't light a fire under his ass, there's no choice but to replace him.
If it's not possible the tackle and center positions have to be addressed this year. In FA or the draft. Obvious?
Reese has his work cut out for him this offseason.
If there's a stud LT available, the whole BPA vs need question really gets put to the test
Round one will be used on a CB or a WR, imo.
Then you select your RT. Then see who can play guard. If Beatty has to become an expensive backup, so be it. You play your best guys.
If we draft on OT, let the three battle it out, the loser also gets a crack at OG. It's not a bad problem to have.
Pugh was a premium pick and looks to be a keeper. Beatty was a premium pick, not a late round guy. He was then given big dollars. He hasn't exactly been a bust. He had a bad year in a season where the entire offense sucked and there were how many different o-line combinations?
The point is, this team has already invested ALOT in Beatty and Pugh and I think the Giants would like to see them as the starters in 14. That said, I do think they look for a veteran to push Beatty and put him on notice that 2013 can't happen again.
I would be looking at Dennard, Ebron, Evans or Mosley who could all start from day 1.
It will be hard to fill all the holes competitively on the team with Beatty as your backup tackle IMO.
Only saving grace is that McAdoo implements more a zone-concept running game like they had in Green Bay. That type of scheme is much more predicated on lineman that are more fleet of foot.
Instead of using a 1st round pick at CB or DE or WR, the team would be forced to use them back to back on tackles (which in an of itself isn't an issue, but having one on the roster for this year is a problem).
So sure, Beatty's contract on its own isn't a huge obstacle (though for 2014 it is), but it's bigger than that IMO.
Pugh and Beatty need to stay tackles.
If the Giants are concerned about WB, then a ZMartin gives them more flexibility with dumpimg WB in '15 and pushing Martin out to LT, or moving JP to LT and getting a pure RT. The left side would then have youth on left side, but if not and WB corrects himself, them they still have 2 young OLs.
based on my comments, that is further support for fixing at least 2 parts of OL INTERIOR with FAs then gives the Giants some draft flexibilty.
That extra reported 6M of cap will help a lot as well.
The best case scenario would be to grab a talented tackle at 12 and let Beatty be your swing tackle for a season or two.
If Beatty played poorly enough to be considered a bust the discussion might be different, but there is a reason the Giants paid him after 2012. He's had his ups and downs but he has proven he can play well.
But If you can get a quality starting OLine at 12 I think you do it, especially one that can start in multiple positions
But If you can get a quality starting OLine at 12 I think you do it, especially one that can start in multiple positions
Sorry dude. Just saw your post and agree. I posted this on the other thread before, as well.
Offensive guard is consistently one of the most underrated and underdrafted position. If the Giants like the kid from Baylor, do a slight trade down and draft him. Shit or draft him at 12.
I am hugely against moving Pugh from right tackle. Echoes of the mistake we made with Petitgout, who may have been an All-Pro if we hadn't moved him.
If the kid from Baylor doesn't have any skeletons we don't know about, I say draft him.
But If you can get a quality starting OLine at 12 I think you do it, especially one that can start in multiple positions
I agree.
And Go Terps, I'm totally unimpressed with Richardson. He's just big. On our line, and next to Beatty, the two would get killed imho.
The line needs a mauler. Has needed one for years.
If the Giants take a tackle in the first round, it doesn't mean that Beatty loses his job or gets cut. It only means that Beatty now has to compete for his job. That's what smart managers do.
He still has offensive line abilities, NFL experience, and its not like we have a whole bunch of better Guards sitting on the bench anyway.
I called playing Beatty at swing tackle as the best case scenario assuming they go tackle in round one. It would mean that they have a superior player to Beatty on the roster. Nowhere did I write in absolutes.
Well, if they do, they'll never admit it.
Anyway...I don't expect the Giants to draft an OT at 12. CB, WR, or DE seem more likely to me.
It's about the $. If they can get a decent free agent tackle they will. Think Locklear type.
The line needs a mauler. Has needed one for years.
Now THAT I agree with. I have a feeling that we're gonna invest heavily in the OL this year both in FA and the draft. We'll have a young and high upside line by next year, if I'm right.
Callahan what are you basing this assessment on? Pugh has little to no experience at guard and you are saying he is a better guard than tackle based on what? He was our best OL last year and you want to move him to another position.
Beatty played RT for us in the past and could do that again this year if Pugh proves the better LT. He wouldn't be a world beater there, but he also wouldn't be as awful as he was last year at LT. He'd also be helped by the WCO and Eli's quicker, shorter drops next year.
So land someone who can play both OG or OT and also sign a C, or do the reverse, and go from there.
sadly he was a once in a lifetime player.
sadly he was a once in a lifetime player.
Ah, don't make me sad, Victor. Memories, from the corner of my mind, wistful....blah, blah, blah! Argh!
Quote:
:-)
sadly he was a once in a lifetime player.
Ah, don't make me sad, Victor. Memories, from the corner of my mind, wistful....blah, blah, blah! Argh!
I know. Those were the days
Beatty is currently the BBI whipping boy and so nothing he does can be right by definition.
The left tackle almost always faces the other team's best pass rusher. Well, if you are the LT and you can't take the defender outside because the qb can't step up and you can't take him inside and get the defender tangled up in traffic because the interior is the softest spot, and you can't get any help because there are 4 other spots along the line that need help, wtf are you supposed to do.
He played one full year and was slightly above average. No pro bowl and not to be confused with a franchise LT by any stretch. Reese had to sign him because he's misused or fucked up on too many linemen he's brought in.
People love Pugh and he may become a great player but his over achieving one year doesn't make him a sure bet. I certainly hope he's the real deal because the line is paper thin right now.
As for Beatty he's had the same issues as a fifth year pro as he had has a rookie. SOFT. The reach around sack is a classic. Not as bad as the butt fumble but an embarrassment for a fifth year pro. Can't handle the bull rush and not a a very good run blocker. Not very physical. Geez maybe they should restructure him now ala Baas.
Reese has done a total shit job with the OL over the last few years from restructures to draft picks(or lack of). Sorry if I don't trust him all that much if he has a conviction on Beatty.
I'm not sure you pick a guy at #12 because he's versatile. You are looking for a best at position type of player. If you tell me Martin is a Pro-Bowl guard, great- I'm all for the pick.
But I'll be damned if I draft a guy just because he can play mutliple positions. This is a premium pick.
I'm not sure you pick a guy at #12 because he's versatile. You are looking for a best at position type of player. If you tell me Martin is a Pro-Bowl guard, great- I'm all for the pick.
But I'll be damned if I draft a guy just because he can play mutliple positions. This is a premium pick.
No you draft a guy projected as a 10 year starter at OT or OG with All-Pro/ Pro Bowl potential. If Eli isn't standing doesn't matter who is WR (see 2013) or TE.
I'm no scout or anywhere close to it, but of all the tackles I saw in Bowl Season, he was the most steady and competent. My caveat was Martin played against Rutgers. But ND plays big time opponents all year long and he stood out.
If he's a Pro Bowler, fine. But you don't draft someone who's best attribute is versatility at #12.
I don't think there is any one there outside of the top 2 who may be able to do that.
Lewan has questions, Martin has questions and Kouandjo has questions. IF that is the case, pass on all of them at 12
If he's a Pro Bowler, fine. But you don't draft someone who's best attribute is versatility at #12.
Dr K - how do you know who will be a Pro Bowler? So you can't say somebody isn't in the cards at #12 unless they will make the Pro Bowl. Last year the #5 OT picked, Justin Pugh, played better than every OT taken ahead of him. Two were taken top 5. Mayock says this guy is better than Pugh and can likely play OG and OT. I'd take a guy better than Pugh at 12 if he helps keep Eli on his feet.
Martin started at #45 projected as guard he is now ranked #19 as a tackle. He is moving up the charts. He seems to the one guy without holes except Matthews.
I do like Kouandjio. I think he'd be a fine RT...not so sure about LT or OG.
I don't think there is any one there outside of the top 2 who may be able to do that.
Lewan has questions, Martin has questions and Kouandjo has questions. IF that is the case, pass on all of them at 12
It wouldn't be hard to play better than Beatty did last year. I think Pugh is the future LT.
It's remarkably like clockwork how whenever player x has a bad year, he's irredeemable garbage as per this board's opinion.
Agreed. Trick question. You don't bench or move Beatty, and you keep Pugh where he is because he's performing RT at a level above anyone else on the roster, and getting better. There isn't a LT worth taking at 12th, because he'll be gone by 12th. The others are a reach at 12th. Trade down to get another day 1 pick, and grab Yankey, put him next to Beatty. He'll make Beatty better, and both will play lights out. With the other two first day picks grab either Su'a-Filo or Zack Martin, and either Weston Richburg or Marcus Martin. Done... put a bow on day 1. That's the Giants O-line for the next 10 years... Beatty-Yankey-Richburg-Su'aFilo-Pugh. Very good, and very CAP friendly.
LT is a position that is in a state of crisis right now...at least somewhat. And as others have mentioned things have a tendency to iron themselves out even if there's a glut of talent at one position.
I'd rather have too many tackles than not enough.
Absolutely agree. Beatty's not going anywhere, and he's not being benched, and they're not moving him to RT where he'd be even worse. The tackles are set. There is no interior lineman of value at #12, so JR's either going CB like Justin Gilbert, or he's trading down. Nobody else is worth the #12 pick and the Giants have way too many other needs to waste a #12 when that #12 could generate an additional day 1 pick that'll still get him the interior linemen he needs. What Beatty needs is protection from one of the draft day 1 Guards like Yankey, Xu'a-Filo or Zack Martin, along with a world class pass protection RB like Carlos Hyde, and a bone crushing blocking TE like Troy Niklas. Beatty wasn't Beatty in 2013 because he was exposed when the Giants decided they could let a good blocking RB go and insert one who couldn't block, and let a really good blocking TE go and bring in one who couldn't block, and then the injury bug hit and Beatty's Guard was shuffled. Recipe for disaster. Forget drafting a LT... Beatty's our guy. Fix Blocking.
He played one full year and was slightly above average. No pro bowl and not to be confused with a franchise LT by any stretch. Reese had to sign him because he's misused or fucked up on too many linemen he's brought in.
People love Pugh and he may become a great player but his over achieving one year doesn't make him a sure bet. I certainly hope he's the real deal because the line is paper thin right now.
As for Beatty he's had the same issues as a fifth year pro as he had has a rookie. SOFT. The reach around sack is a classic. Not as bad as the butt fumble but an embarrassment for a fifth year pro. Can't handle the bull rush and not a a very good run blocker. Not very physical. Geez maybe they should restructure him now ala Baas.
Reese has done a total shit job with the OL over the last few years from restructures to draft picks(or lack of). Sorry if I don't trust him all that much if he has a conviction on Beatty.
Fully agree. Beatty was a miss plain and simple. The fact that people want to perpetuate that mistake is even dumber. Some people here are clueless regarding Beatty. The guy is simply not that good. Take off your blue colored glasses.
Quote:
will stick by Beatty but he's easily the most over rated player on this site.
He played one full year and was slightly above average. No pro bowl and not to be confused with a franchise LT by any stretch. Reese had to sign him because he's misused or fucked up on too many linemen he's brought in.
People love Pugh and he may become a great player but his over achieving one year doesn't make him a sure bet. I certainly hope he's the real deal because the line is paper thin right now.
As for Beatty he's had the same issues as a fifth year pro as he had has a rookie. SOFT. The reach around sack is a classic. Not as bad as the butt fumble but an embarrassment for a fifth year pro. Can't handle the bull rush and not a a very good run blocker. Not very physical. Geez maybe they should restructure him now ala Baas.
Reese has done a total shit job with the OL over the last few years from restructures to draft picks(or lack of). Sorry if I don't trust him all that much if he has a conviction on Beatty.
Fully agree. Beatty was a miss plain and simple. The fact that people want to perpetuate that mistake is even dumber. Some people here are clueless regarding Beatty. The guy is simply not that good. Take off your blue colored glasses.
You guys are right
What we really need at this point is 2 G's and a C. Replacing Beatty is a luxury. We don't need a T who can fill in at G until Beatty washes out. We need a kickass G (2 of them would be nice).
You can roll the dice IF you can draft a T who can solidly fill out the G position, do. You'll be set at LT if Beatty pans out, have a backup plan if he doesn't. Do not, under any circumstances, make your first plan finding a replacement for Beatty without considering the G positions.
Priority one at this point, though, is to find 2 G's and a C. Worrying about Beatty, while it should be kept in mind, is secondary.
What we really need at this point is 2 G's and a C. Replacing Beatty is a luxury. We don't need a T who can fill in at G until Beatty washes out. We need a kickass G (2 of them would be nice).
You can roll the dice IF you can draft a T who can solidly fill out the G position, do. You'll be set at LT if Beatty pans out, have a backup plan if he doesn't. Do not, under any circumstances, make your first plan finding a replacement for Beatty without considering the G positions.
Priority one at this point, though, is to find 2 G's and a C. Worrying about Beatty, while it should be kept in mind, is secondary.
Most accurate post on this thread..
Ill say it again. Beatty is an ok player when he's going well. He's a starter. HE's also replaceable and definitely a guy that can be improved upon AND he's HURT! AND he's coming off a terrible season.
If the LT is there and the Giants like him, they take him because it's logical. Beatty very well does bounce back...so what. He's never going to be a great LT but the guy at 12 very well will be.
If you signed 2 interior linemen in FA and then drafted a LT that can push Beatty and Pugh...shit...that's would be an overhaul. That's a good thing. Let the best men win the job and worry the roster fillers later.
I don't think some of you realize how good some of these tackle prospects really are. A guy that slips to 12 this season would very well be the 3rd overall pick last season. This draft is loaded with tackle talent. One of these guys could in fact be Anthony Munoz...or close to it. These are blue chip prospects. Beatty was never that and never will be that. He's solid when he wants to be. And he hasn't wanted it his entire career.
Draft players not positions.
Beatty, if healthy, will have his chance to secure his LT gig, Pugh the same at RT. NYG is going to work hard to secure at least one OG via UFA.
So, OT isn't out of the question at #12. But I do think Ealy or one of the CBs is more likely, should the value be there.