Overall, JR has not done bad in Free Agency. More hits then misses and overall good strategy of hitting a target or two early and then wait in the weeds to strike later on. Link - ( New Window )
Is he saying that just because David Baas was the center on a Super Bowl team, that makes his five-year, $27.5 million contract a good one?!?!
David Diehl was the left tackle on that team and PFF graded him out as the single WORST left tackle in 2011 by far.
By that same logic does that mean that Diehl would have also been a good signing if he was from another team and had signed that year??
Makes no sense. Baas was one of Reese's WORST free agent moves. Even worse though was when he restructured Baas' contract keeping him on for longer and leading us to the NOW, where we can only recoup $1.77 million of his CAP HIT.
I'm tired of hearing what a mistake signing was. Sure, in retrospect,
it was not a good signing. Ahh, the old 20-20 hindsight.
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
We were two years late saying goodbye to Diehl, we could be doing the same thing with Snee if we don't part ways. As for Baas he appears to be on an even more rocky path then both Diehl and Snee.
RE: I'm tired of hearing what a mistake signing was. Sure, in retrospect,
it was not a good signing. Ahh, the old 20-20 hindsight.
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
So by that logic, when we needed a middle linebacker if we had "went out and got one" by signing Kendrell Bell instead of Antonio Pierce, are you saying that would NOT have been a MISTAKE?
Reese evaluated a player poorly and then instead of cutting ties when he could, he restructured that player and the mistake lingered longer than it had to.
Bell was injured and not considered one of the better
players at his position. Baas was considered one of the better players at his position and healthy. Apples and oranges..You go by what's before you and you pull the trigger or you don't..Brady was a 6th rounder and now stands as argubly the best ever....If, if, if, 31 other teams knew...
Baas was a very good signing at the time. Bell was damaged goods and would not have been a very good signing Pierce or no Pierce
I'm trying to find the thread(s) on the Baas July 28, 2011 signing and I can't retrieve it. How can I bring it up. We'll find out which one of us was right, as it pertains to BBIers reactions. I have little experience with the archives
RE: I'm tired of hearing what a mistake signing was. Sure, in retrospect,
it was not a good signing. Ahh, the old 20-20 hindsight.
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
Umm what!? Who considered Baas one of the better C's in the game!? Most people on BBI thought it was overspending for an average player. If I recall correctly, the 49ers didn't even make an attempt to re-sign him and most niners fans thought we were crazy to pay him as much as we did. This isn't a case of 20-20...many people questioned the contract the day it was signed.
it was not a good signing. Ahh, the old 20-20 hindsight.
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
I'm with you on this BB'56...
Kind of brings to mind all the posters calling for Dietrich-Smith. Now it may be a bit controversial whether or not he's really one of the top centers in the league. What's not in question is whether he is one of the top centers AVAILABLE through free agency this offseason.
So imagine we sign him. Some complain they don't like him, others complain that we overspent. The majority are happy - we upgraded significantly a position of need. Then imagine we go on to win a super bowl with EDS. Now very few complain about the signing - we're all happy because we're super bowl champs. Two years later, EDS has injuries and hasn't played well and now is not worth his contract.
Suddenly the overwhelming majority says that EDS was a bad signing - that he was never more than a marginal at best talent that GB let get away, and that Reese is a fool for giving him so much money.
Replace EDS with Baas and that's exactly what happened.
The real question is what did JR do with the money he saved in extending Baas?
You cann't just say the extention was a bad thing without following the money, For ex. Did he sign a Sean Locklear or any other players.
20-20 Hindsight is yes Extending Baas was a bad thing at first glance but until look at the whole picture and you see where the money went... and who we signed with that money we shouldn't just throw JR under the bus
Sometimes Circumstances force people into doing things which they would not do normally.
Don't see too many negative posts Link - ( New Window )
That thread was only the discussion that we signed a center without any details of the oversized contract. We were in desperate need of a C after O'Hara's season so the reaction isn't surprising. The only comment on that thread regarding the contract was:
Quote:
five years $26 million
TJ : 7/27/2011 11:57 am : link
could be a good deal or bad. Any guesses how much is guaranteed and how backloaded is it?
One of the better options at center who was available when OHara had to be replaced. Health wise, there were no major issues in his past, certainly nothing like the health issues since Baas came here. I'm not sure that Reese could have predicted the injuries Baas would ultimately suffer. Be good if a GM could predict who will get hurt going forward. And, he played well when it counted in the SB run that year and played Vince Wilford even one on one which was one of the leading factors in the Giants win that year. How much is a SB worth? I think an awful when you've never won one. Agree with the point that the restructure was a bad move.
not unlike many FA contracts..Even if he was just a good C and not great, he was the best available and we had no choice. Now as I said, extending him is a different issue all together, but many people liked the signing at the time.
Only C- for overpaying Beatty....signing Meyers....Barden....Rivers....A. Brown......Painter Murphey...Connor(lb)
2012.....
Did Better with free agents.....who is Derek Carr? Keeping TT provided dividends?
2011....overpaid Baas, but we were desperate for a center...he played ok, nothing special....signing A. Brown was a key move? Weatherford was a real good move.....that's it...
2010.....overpaid for Rolle, but at least he has performed well....Grant was a good signing.....
Resigning your own free agents? You should.......
But where is that big free agent signing that is still on the team, today? Rolle? Maybe.....that's it?
OK, but what about the players Reese did NOT re-sign?
it was not a good signing. Ahh, the old 20-20 hindsight.
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
Right on the money, Doc. These critics are all geniuses after the fact.
They had a HUGE hole at center with no options to fill except with an overpaid Baas. He held the that line together on the Super Bowl run and they would have NEVER made it without him. Those who want a "redo" must first give up the SB42 win.
have after the fact. You look at the record and evaluate the performance. Reese has been bad, in the draft and FA, and should have been dumped after last year.
What was the alternatives to Baas at the time. Here were the UFA C that year
Ryan Kalil - no Signed a 50M contract with his own team
Olin Kreutz - 13 yr vet that retired
Chris Spencer - Awful for the Bears
Jonathan Goodwin - 11 yr vet 33 at time
Scott Mruczowski, Casey Weigmann
Stefan Wisnewski who was drafted 29 picks after Prince and the last C picked before the 6th round.
Now, restructuring can certainly be debated. Just look at the group of FA C in 2012, and then 2013 - it is thin at best. The 2012 draft produced 4 C (Konz only C drafted before RD 4 and he is not that good)
It is not even a case of Baas playing poorly - he just doesn't play, which is worse
David Diehl was the left tackle on that team and PFF graded him out as the single WORST left tackle in 2011 by far.
By that same logic does that mean that Diehl would have also been a good signing if he was from another team and had signed that year??
Makes no sense. Baas was one of Reese's WORST free agent moves. Even worse though was when he restructured Baas' contract keeping him on for longer and leading us to the NOW, where we can only recoup $1.77 million of his CAP HIT.
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
So by that logic, when we needed a middle linebacker if we had "went out and got one" by signing Kendrell Bell instead of Antonio Pierce, are you saying that would NOT have been a MISTAKE?
Reese evaluated a player poorly and then instead of cutting ties when he could, he restructured that player and the mistake lingered longer than it had to.
Baas was a very good signing at the time. Bell was damaged goods and would not have been a very good signing Pierce or no Pierce
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
Umm what!? Who considered Baas one of the better C's in the game!? Most people on BBI thought it was overspending for an average player. If I recall correctly, the 49ers didn't even make an attempt to re-sign him and most niners fans thought we were crazy to pay him as much as we did. This isn't a case of 20-20...many people questioned the contract the day it was signed.
Link - ( New Window )
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
I'm with you on this BB'56...
Kind of brings to mind all the posters calling for Dietrich-Smith. Now it may be a bit controversial whether or not he's really one of the top centers in the league. What's not in question is whether he is one of the top centers AVAILABLE through free agency this offseason.
So imagine we sign him. Some complain they don't like him, others complain that we overspent. The majority are happy - we upgraded significantly a position of need. Then imagine we go on to win a super bowl with EDS. Now very few complain about the signing - we're all happy because we're super bowl champs. Two years later, EDS has injuries and hasn't played well and now is not worth his contract.
Suddenly the overwhelming majority says that EDS was a bad signing - that he was never more than a marginal at best talent that GB let get away, and that Reese is a fool for giving him so much money.
Replace EDS with Baas and that's exactly what happened.
The real question is what did JR do with the money he saved in extending Baas?
You cann't just say the extention was a bad thing without following the money, For ex. Did he sign a Sean Locklear or any other players.
20-20 Hindsight is yes Extending Baas was a bad thing at first glance but until look at the whole picture and you see where the money went... and who we signed with that money we shouldn't just throw JR under the bus
Sometimes Circumstances force people into doing things which they would not do normally.
That thread was only the discussion that we signed a center without any details of the oversized contract. We were in desperate need of a C after O'Hara's season so the reaction isn't surprising. The only comment on that thread regarding the contract was:
TJ : 7/27/2011 11:57 am : link
could be a good deal or bad. Any guesses how much is guaranteed and how backloaded is it?
Baller, thanks. It's what I thought.
Only C- for overpaying Beatty....signing Meyers....Barden....Rivers....A. Brown......Painter Murphey...Connor(lb)
2012.....
Did Better with free agents.....who is Derek Carr? Keeping TT provided dividends?
2011....overpaid Baas, but we were desperate for a center...he played ok, nothing special....signing A. Brown was a key move? Weatherford was a real good move.....that's it...
2010.....overpaid for Rolle, but at least he has performed well....Grant was a good signing.....
Resigning your own free agents? You should.......
But where is that big free agent signing that is still on the team, today? Rolle? Maybe.....that's it?
We'd have a better team if Reese had done his job properly and re-signed them.
The fact is, Baas at the time was coming off a solid season at OC after failing at OG in prior years. He was entering his prime, Rather INJURY-FREE and considered one of the better Cs in the game.
The contract he signed was by all standards a rather good one for us..So please STOP with this "mistake" business. We needed a C and we went out and got a good one..
Where a mistake might have been made was in restructuring, but the rest is hindsight and iirc, many people were on board AT THE TIME
Link - ( New Window )
They had a HUGE hole at center with no options to fill except with an overpaid Baas. He held the that line together on the Super Bowl run and they would have NEVER made it without him. Those who want a "redo" must first give up the SB42 win.
Ryan Kalil - no Signed a 50M contract with his own team
Olin Kreutz - 13 yr vet that retired
Chris Spencer - Awful for the Bears
Jonathan Goodwin - 11 yr vet 33 at time
Scott Mruczowski, Casey Weigmann
Stefan Wisnewski who was drafted 29 picks after Prince and the last C picked before the 6th round.
Now, restructuring can certainly be debated. Just look at the group of FA C in 2012, and then 2013 - it is thin at best. The 2012 draft produced 4 C (Konz only C drafted before RD 4 and he is not that good)
It is not even a case of Baas playing poorly - he just doesn't play, which is worse