I made this comment in one of the Schofield threads, but I thought it was worth its own thread. Given the mixed at best track record they've had with these conversion projects, why are the Giants doing it again with Schofield? Why not just try to find better true linebackers?
And it's more a question of, why do the Giants keep trying to convert 3-4 OLB to 4-3 OLB?
If they have a DE with the rush gene and enough athleticism and not the size/strength to hold up full-time at DE, they move him back to the second level and try to limit his role. "Easier" when you've got a MIKE like Beason at that level, and very physical active safeties as they can cover up some deficiencies sideline to sideline.
so far, blitzing under Fewell, - not so much success -
The list goes on and on...
(cbs.draftscout short exerpt)
STRENGTHS: Versatile. Signed with UVA to play end in former coach Al Groh's 3-4 scheme, but starred the past two seasons as a tackle in Mike London's preferred 4-3 alignment.
Good initial quickness off the snap, taking would-be blockers by surprise with his ability to extend his arms and rock opponents back onto their heels. Good core and lower body power for the bull rush to collapse the interior.
Uses his exceptionally long arms to keep would-be blockers off his chest and to bat down passes when he can't get to the quarterback. Good hustle to the sideline in pursuit, showing improved footwork and balance in 2013.
Good strength for the drag-down tackle. Can make the eye-popping one-armed tackle just by reaching out and grabbing ahold of ballcarriers as they attempt to slip by him.
WEAKNESSES: Not yet the sum of his parts. Comes off the ball high and can get knocked off-balance and to the ground. Inconsistent hand placement. Too often allows his hands to ride high on blockers (negating his own strength, exposing his middle and drawing occasional hands to the face flags), as well as ballcarriers (leading to some slipped tackles, face mask penalties).
Doesn't recognize cut blocks well enough yet and due to his length is especially susceptible to them. Struggles to locate the ball and get back involved once knocked to the turf. A bit stiff, struggling to change directions quickly.
COMPARES TO: Tony McDaniel, Seattle Seahawks -- With his frame and athletic upside, Urban is likely to earn comparisons to anyone from J.J. Watt to last year's wunderkind Margus Hunt. However, he's neither as dynamic as the 2012 Defensive MVP nor as raw as Cincinnati's rookie. Like McDaniel, Urban has good quickness, but it is his length and power that will earn him a starting projection from 3-4 and 4-3 teams, alike.
(obvously slower than any 'tweener, and pure on the line DLer, not in any way any kind of LB, as in this discussion, but as part of this particular DL group, help free up Hank, Jenk and JPP)
but they need guys with range who have LINEBACKER instincts. that is the issue. those are developed after years and years. making a DE a 4-3 OLB just does not work.
Jerry wants to prove that the definition of insanity really is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. He's not quite convinced yet that's true.
The list goes on and on...
They won a Super Bowl with Torbor at LB and another with Kiwi at LB. It's not prolonged success but how many Chad Greenway's are in the NFL? Finding a guy who is stout against the run, will rush the QB and cover is almost impossible to find.
Rolle, Hill, and Brown.
The 3 safety set (that has been used increasingly over the past few years when guys have been healthy) completely changes the LB role. I look for OB Wan to be rushing off the hip of an end in those sets this year and occasionally covering the flat. Supposedly although he doesn't have the experience, he's got the tools and hips to cover.
Surely he will also have his hand in the dirt on third and long.
Time will tell. I'm optimistic.
The Giants love to drop a safety down in the box. It works real well if they're all healthy.
(cbs.draftscout short exerpt)
STRENGTHS: Versatile. Signed with UVA to play end in former coach Al Groh's 3-4 scheme, but starred the past two seasons as a tackle in Mike London's preferred 4-3 alignment.
Good initial quickness off the snap, taking would-be blockers by surprise with his ability to extend his arms and rock opponents back onto their heels. Good core and lower body power for the bull rush to collapse the interior.
Uses his exceptionally long arms to keep would-be blockers off his chest and to bat down passes when he can't get to the quarterback. Good hustle to the sideline in pursuit, showing improved footwork and balance in 2013.
Good strength for the drag-down tackle. Can make the eye-popping one-armed tackle just by reaching out and grabbing ahold of ballcarriers as they attempt to slip by him.
WEAKNESSES: Not yet the sum of his parts. Comes off the ball high and can get knocked off-balance and to the ground. Inconsistent hand placement. Too often allows his hands to ride high on blockers (negating his own strength, exposing his middle and drawing occasional hands to the face flags), as well as ballcarriers (leading to some slipped tackles, face mask penalties).
Doesn't recognize cut blocks well enough yet and due to his length is especially susceptible to them. Struggles to locate the ball and get back involved once knocked to the turf. A bit stiff, struggling to change directions quickly.
COMPARES TO: Tony McDaniel, Seattle Seahawks -- With his frame and athletic upside, Urban is likely to earn comparisons to anyone from J.J. Watt to last year's wunderkind Margus Hunt. However, he's neither as dynamic as the 2012 Defensive MVP nor as raw as Cincinnati's rookie. Like McDaniel, Urban has good quickness, but it is his length and power that will earn him a starting projection from 3-4 and 4-3 teams, alike.
(obvously slower than any 'tweener, and pure on the line DLer, not in any way any kind of LB, as in this discussion, but as part of this particular DL group, help free up Hank, Jenk and JPP)
Good catch. Like Urban a lot from the fifth round on, and not just because I am a UVA alum. Seen him a lot. He has some real upside IMO.
Bruce Irvin in Seattle for an example of a DE/OLB tweener having success in a 43. Everyone thought Seattle was crazy for taking him where they did but they knew what they wanted to do on defense. Ill reserve judgement on this move,
as a balancing factor for the little speed rushers (moore and obrien shoefield) and as way to free up Hank and Jenk who would be wasted in pure plugger roles, not being as powerful as Joseph, and yet being more capable of play making behind the line - if we can get gaps open.
possibly a 3-4 DE
I think a big part of that was Beason, but I don't think based on last year at least the Giants were running those 3-safety looks intentionally, I think they had Grant or a 3rd safety out there for lack of LB's.
Look it up Mundy barely played (other than week 17) once Beason and Hill were acclimated.
How do you get "fun" out of signing a 2010 4th rd pick who played in 15 and only started 2 games with a total of 78 tackles and 1 sack last year? Price=$4M/yr.! He is too small for DE and it would be ludicrous to even consider it.
possibly some scout sees an actual late draft round for the player.
How do you get "fun" out of signing a 2010 4th rd pick who played in 15 and only started 2 games with a total of 78 tackles and 1 sack last year? Price=$4M/yr.! He is too small for DE and it would be ludicrous to even consider it.
Bill, right after he was signed, I read that he's going to be playing as a DE with us. This isn't like the past when we tried making guys LB's. This is the other way around. He's an OLB who is best rushing the QB in a 3-4 or a 4-3 End.
Quote:
and some day it might work.
How do you get "fun" out of signing a 2010 4th rd pick who played in 15 and only started 2 games with a total of 78 tackles and 1 sack last year? Price=$4M/yr.! He is too small for DE and it would be ludicrous to even consider it.
He was a 4th round pick because he tore his ACL at the Senior Bowl. Obviously, he couldn't work out at the Combine or his Pro Day. Prior to that he was considered a late 1st, early 2nd round pick.
Also, you don't know what his actual price tag is because the terms of his contract haven't been released. You might want to check jlukes' thread on that very subject.
Finally, he's not a DE, never was since he entered the NFL at 6-3, 221 pounds (now 242), and I doubt the Giants are planning to move him there.
and I'd like to think we can get a rush on 1st and ten as well, otherwise.....
not had a rush in a while, and the writing is there, reese likes players early..
Schofield played outside linebacker in Arizona and Seattle during his first four seasons, but will likely play with his hand in the dirt in New York. He has 11.5 career sacks across 40 games. Schofield will also contribute on special teams.
Related: Seahawks
Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
''A nickel defense is when one of the three linebackers, usually the SAM linebacker, comes out of the game, and the defense employs a 5thdefensive back. The name nickel comes from the fact that you have 5 defensive backs in the game (2 safeties, 2 corners and the nickel back), instead of the standard 4. Boosting your pass defense is needed at particular times, and sometimes entire games.'' -
Which is sort of the same moment that you need the edge rushing specialist SAM (obrien schoefield)...and maybe why tight ends kill us, since who is left for that cover?
Opponents
receptions 361 out of targets 601
yards 3787
av10.5 td21 long56 20 yards '+' 41
y/game 236.7 yacs1512
1stdns198
Maybe they are bulking Hank for a NT/DT role, Jenkins to DE, and OS as DE in a DWare role on 3-4; then will, to the pleasure of some BBIers, draft ADonald @ 12 for the other DT role in a 4-3 set for a run stop/pass rush DT combo.
Given the re-signings of Herz and Paysinger, and along w/JWilliams and Beason?/Porter? in a 4 LB set, the 4 LBs will have less territory to cover in a 3-4 re: pass coverage and more likely to stick closer to their man, especially if Trel can cheat down low.
one problem last year was (IMO) jenk and hank could not be set free often enough from run duties inside (due to weak left DE and weak LB's or just as a matter of coach emphasis) to really flush the pocket.
(IMHO) hank and jenk are not nose types at all, but we could use to start breaking OLs down again.