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Shelley Smith G STL visiting NYG today

Defenderdawg : 3/12/2014 10:10 am
@caplannfl: UFA G Shelley Smith is visiting the Giants today, source confirmed.
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DanMetroMan : 3/12/2014 10:47 am : link
Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 23s

Shelley Smith is a very good Run Blocking OG.. he'd allow the Patriots to release Dan Connolly or move him to Center.
Touting a guy  
Joey in VA : 3/12/2014 10:50 am : link
Who started 2 games on a bad Rams team? Why on earth would you tout him for that?

And the St. Louis Dispatch writer who said this, should be fired...

"Smith is a strong pulling guard who would make sense for teams that implement zone-blocking schemes."???????

So zone blocking, in which the entire line essentially moves laterally to create multiple running lanes likes a strong pulling guard???? WTF?? The zone blocking scheme simply does not use that.
Again  
Joey in VA : 3/12/2014 10:51 am : link
If he's that damn good, why did he start 2 games????
smokescreen  
JonC : 3/12/2014 10:54 am : link
imo
Here's the talk with Reese...  
bob in tx : 3/12/2014 10:54 am : link
Reese: "Shelley, I gave Scholfield $8M for 2 years. What do you want?"

Shelley: " Double it."

Reese: " Deal."

Micko " WTF!"

BB'56: " Micko, you're missing the point."
Because the Rams aren't particularly well run?  
jcn56 : 3/12/2014 10:55 am : link
.
bob  
JonC : 3/12/2014 10:56 am : link
well played.
I never said he was "that damn good."  
Klaatu : 3/12/2014 10:58 am : link
I said he was better than what we have. He can play both Guard spots and he'd probably come cheap.
Just FWIW a friend of mine  
pjcas18 : 3/12/2014 11:01 am : link
who is knowledgeable about football stuff (but a Dolphins fan) sent me this today and it contained some good stuff about Shelley Smith:

Quote:
I hear Jerry Reese is now pursuing Shelley Smith and at this point Iím about to just send in a resume to the Giants because weíre just on the same wavelength here. Geoff Schwartz and Shelley Smith at the guard positions, prioritizing the re-signing of Stevie Brown and Trumaine McBride at reasonable contracts, sending a sub-starter contract over to OíBrien Schofield to hole in the defense I described beforeÖall of it makes too much sense.

Although I heard something disturbing about them thinking of using Geoff Schwartz at LEFT guard? Does that mean Shelley Smith would play RIGHT guard? Both would in all likelihood be a mistake.

Shelley Smith played right guard at St. Louis and he drew some positive PFF marks however he had some definite weaknesses that needed to be covered up. Specifically I believe you can cover up the worst of those weaknesses, while accentuating his strengths, by playing him at left guard.

Heís an excellent move player, moves well laterally and can get out in space and do things. If you go back in time that makes sense as most of his Combine #ís put him in the top 5th to 10th percentile amongst guards tested at the Combine. Somewhat surprisingly for this type of player (300 pounder that moves well) heís also got straight ahead drive blocking game. Itís somewhat surprising but then again when you consider the lower body explosion needed to produce a 32 inch vertical for a big fat offensive lineman, then it starts to make sense why he fires off the ball so explosively and effectively.

However none of that helps him anchor in pass pro where his sheer lack of size and lack of strength hurts him. One of the first things you should notice watching his 2013 tape at right guard is that he was vulnerable on his inside shoulder/leg. When defensive linemen get their helmet outside of his left shoulder, he could be had. Is that a generalized strength thing? Or is he just right handed and has a harder time anchoring the left side?

If itís the latter then you need to move him to left guard. His inside shoulder canít be vulnerable as a right guard because cutting over to the inside shoulder gives a defensive lineman a sharper, quicker angle to the quarterback. It also flows against the grain of the lineís general kick step movement in pass pro where everyone kind of fans from center outward. If youíre going to constantly have your center protect his inside shoulder I guess thatís one thing but you wonít always be able to do that and in zone protections he shows the same weakness sliding back to his left to try and pick up a new threat to his zone (stunt, delayed blitz, etc).

Itís just a hypothesis but I checked previous seasonsí tape with the Rams when Shelley played some left guard, and what I saw was consistent with what I thought I might see. His right shoulder (which at left guard is now his inside shoulder) wasnít as vulnerable as his left shoulder. He was able to step into contact better and his upper body strength seemed better. But now at left guard his weaker shoulder is the B gap. The weakness could be a problem if you have a 7-technique defensive end hard stepping an inside move into the B gap. That will test Shelley Smithís mettle if heís got to be the guy to pick him up. But as heís already flowing a bit to his left at the snap in pass pro sets, I think heís in better position to do it.

As for 3-techniques, he seems better able to handle them on his left shoulder when heís at left guardÖin part because heís already flowing that direction a little bit but also in part for the simple fact that when youíre attacking the left shoulder of a left guard youíre not cutting a straight line to the quarterback. Itís closer to what a defensive end has to in order to get to the quarterback on an outside rush, and it takes pretty special ability to bend to be able to do that consistently because the angles favor the offensive linemen.
Starter,  
old man : 3/12/2014 11:02 am : link
competition, depth.
If he brings ANYTHING they can use, don't let him leave.

Is R Wendall, the NE Center signed/re-signed?
He helps keep TB vertical, and snaps the ball back quickly and accurately in the shotgun(something NO current/very recently past Giants C can do).
pj  
Joey in VA : 3/12/2014 11:14 am : link
No offense, but that is awful. So he's right handed and can't anchor on his left side so move him to the left and hope his left shoulder isn't exposed? You think that a guy who is essentially half good and half crap to move left and instantly that vulnerability is gone? If he's crap anchoring left he's crap anchoring 50% of the time regardless of what side he's on and that weakness isn't just gone because he switched sides.

I am just dumbfounded at what people spew out sometimes. If he's right handed by the way, he'll be better at RG because swinging your dominant leg is easier than the reverse so your pal is wrong and confused about biomechanics. Just awful.
I thought this was a joke when I read it  
Anakim : 3/12/2014 11:16 am : link
.
bob's bringing his 'A' game lately  
Andy in Halifax : 3/12/2014 11:17 am : link
Must have been talking with neelo or something.
I'm not offended Joey  
pjcas18 : 3/12/2014 11:20 am : link
I didn't write it.

I think the Rams actually played him at LG quite a bit anyway, so it's not like an outlandish theory though - his pass blocking at RG (through PFF at least) is much worse than at LG. Could be lots of reasons to explain it.

RE: Ok, now  
snumber6 : 3/12/2014 11:42 am : link
In comment 11553565 section125 said:
Quote:
where is the center?


We don't need a center ... Eli will just pick up the ball in front of the NT ... and drop back fast ... sort of like last year ...
It's worth noting that both Schwartz and Smith  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/12/2014 11:44 am : link
seem to have reputations and reports as really, really good run blockers.

This would be a great depth signing.  
Mike in Long Beach : 3/12/2014 11:45 am : link
And I don't say that to minimize it's importance. We lack depth on the OL. This would be an important signing.
RE: It's worth noting that both Schwartz and Smith  
speedywheels : 3/12/2014 11:49 am : link
In comment 11553936 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
seem to have reputations and reports as really, really good run blockers.


TTH - much needed for this team, but it also seems their pass blocking leaves a lot to be desired. And well, we already saw Eli running around for his life last year.

Gotta start somewhere, I suppose...
better than what we have  
fkap : 3/12/2014 11:49 am : link
you have to fall asleep on the couch, and upon waking just blindly pick undrafted FA to do worse than what we have.
Kevin Boothe did next to nothing for the Giants for four years.  
Klaatu : 3/12/2014 11:59 am : link
But with patience, perseverance, and good coaching he became an integral (and versatile) part of our offensive line for the past three years. The Giants signed him, stuck with him, and he paid dividends for them.

Shelley Smith may not be the second coming of Carl Nicks. He may not even be the second coming of Kevin Boothe. But if the price is right he's worth taking a chance on. God knows the Giants need all of the O-Line help they can get.
let me guess  
chris r : 3/12/2014 12:16 pm : link
Shelley Smith is black?
A good puller  
area junc : 3/12/2014 12:20 pm : link
Projects well to a zone scheme because both require feet and agility over power
Who the f*ck  
SanFranGiantsFan : 3/12/2014 12:22 pm : link
is Shelley Smith?
Reese  
SBlue46 : 3/12/2014 12:24 pm : link
will sign 2 more OL by Fri like I said yesterday,,OC and G.
Beatty health is a concern..plus Baas gone,,and Snee is
a player everyone on BBI thinks is starting,I think he
may make tean because FC but dont see him lasting long.
Pugh and Swartz is all we have.Lots of backups.
RE: Touting a guy  
SwirlingEddie : 3/12/2014 12:27 pm : link
In comment 11553630 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
...

And the St. Louis Dispatch writer who said this, should be fired...

"Smith is a strong pulling guard who would make sense for teams that implement zone-blocking schemes."???????

So zone blocking, in which the entire line essentially moves laterally to create multiple running lanes likes a strong pulling guard???? WTF?? The zone blocking scheme simply does not use that.


Thanks Joey. I thought that was crazy when I first read it too. Guess it wasn't just me.
RE: let me guess  
Modus Operandi : 3/12/2014 12:29 pm : link
In comment 11554095 chris r said:
Quote:
Shelley Smith is black?


Now now, radar. Are you implying that a preponderance of black guys have girly names?
The Giants dont just need to sign  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 3/12/2014 12:36 pm : link
starters on the OL.. they need quality depth too
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 3/12/2014 12:39 pm : link
1) For the issues the Rams have had, why is their OL being pilfered?

2) I agree with Joey about the assessment of RG vs. LG.

3) I admit to not knowing enough about him to have my own opinion. But, when every write-up describes problems in pass protection, why is this a good thing? Our greatest weakness last year was pass protection, in my opinion.

4) Does anyone really think Snee won't be starting, if he is healthy?
RE: The Giants dont just need to sign  
BigBlueinChicago : 3/12/2014 12:40 pm : link
In comment 11554197 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
starters on the OL.. they need quality depth too


As much of it as possible.

re: snee  
alligatorpie : 3/12/2014 12:44 pm : link
'healthy' does not at all equal 'can still play nfl guard'..it must be brutal...vs DTs all day.

alligator  
Matt M. : 3/12/2014 12:49 pm : link
I don't disagree. But, i don't think for a second that he won't be penciled in as a starter if he is healthy. Whether or not that is the correct move is another story. I think by restructuring him as opposed to cutting him/suggesting retirement, they plan to squeeze another year out of him as a starter.
ok  
alligatorpie : 3/12/2014 12:51 pm : link
.hope not though.
While I agree they also need to sign depth  
Matt M. : 3/12/2014 12:52 pm : link
I also don't think a signing like this would be with depth in mind. I may be in the minority here, but I think Mosely and Brewer provided decent depth last year and are now another year in. They obviously need more than that, but I'm not convinced they aren't considering Snee a starter, which means there is no other OG position after yesterday's signing.
Matt, no offense but did you see the Giants  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 3/12/2014 12:54 pm : link
run game last year? Thye need OL who can run block just as much as pass block. Shelley might not be signed just for depth. But he has win the job.
possibly brewer and mosely become tackle depth  
alligatorpie : 3/12/2014 12:56 pm : link
...possibly we are getting a little more flexibility in the first 4 rounds
Kevin  
Matt M. : 3/12/2014 12:57 pm : link
I agree they need help in the run game as well. My point is they already signed a starting OG yesterday. I think they will be viewing the other OG position as Snee's to lose.
RE: alligator  
GIANTSr01 : 3/12/2014 1:00 pm : link
In comment 11554263 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I don't disagree. But, i don't think for a second that he won't be penciled in as a starter if he is healthy. Whether or not that is the correct move is another story. I think by restructuring him as opposed to cutting him/suggesting retirement, they plan to squeeze another year out of him as a starter.


He might be pencilled in as starter for OTAs and camp, but I think they'll give others a chance to beat him out.

And that's assuming they don't view Schwartz as the new starting RG. Snee may have already lost his starting job (on paper).

All we (fans) know about the OL right now is that they have 2 guys that can be relied upon as starters: Pugh and Schwartz. We have no idea where they envision any of these guys playing. For all we know the current plan could be:

Pugh - Brewer - FA? - Snee - Schwartz with Beatty as the swing tackle
we may have a better idea after day one  
alligatorpie : 3/12/2014 1:10 pm : link
.
I don't think Brewer  
JOMO25 : 3/12/2014 1:11 pm : link
is a viable backup.
RE: I don't think Brewer  
GIANTSr01 : 3/12/2014 1:14 pm : link
In comment 11554399 JOMO25 said:
Quote:
is a viable backup.


I don't either, but as of right now if the coaches believe Schwartz is best at RT (and I have no idea if they do), then it's between Brewer/Mosely/Snee for the guard spots.

Even if they see Beatty/Pugh as the bookends, you're still (currently) looking at one of Snee/Brewer/Mosely at the other OG spot.
Doesn't This Quote From An Earlier Post In This Thread  
Trainmaster : 3/12/2014 1:47 pm : link
concern anyone?

Quote:
... whose early career was limited because of injuries.


I think the Giants need to focus on guys who have shown they can stay healthy. If they were limited due to injury when they were in their early / mid 20s, how likely is it they will be more healthy as they age?
He has the same name as my wife  
crick78 : 3/12/2014 5:09 pm : link
Pass...
Trainmaster  
Semipro Lineman : 3/12/2014 5:13 pm : link
Quote:

I think the Giants need to focus on guys who have shown they can stay healthy. If they were limited due to injury when they were in their early / mid 20s, how likely is it they will be more healthy as they age?


If this is your criterial then the list of available guys who you like is going to be extremely small and limited.
I don't want a good run blocker with pass blocking issues  
Some Fan : 3/12/2014 5:34 pm : link
Someone posted that we were last in rushing in 2011. We did have good pass protection in 2011. As you know, we won tyhe SB.
RE: I don't want a good run blocker with pass blocking issues  
Jay on the Island : 3/12/2014 5:36 pm : link
In comment 11555791 Some Fan said:
Quote:
Someone posted that we were last in rushing in 2011. We did have good pass protection in 2011. As you know, we won tyhe SB.

We did not have good pass protection in 2011. Eli masked the poor play of the offensive line.
Of course good in both is the preference but weak in pass protect  
Some Fan : 3/12/2014 5:36 pm : link
eliminates you from consideration, IMV. Yes, bring him in for a look but only sign him if we really think he can pass protect effectively
Maybe not great in pass protection but better  
Some Fan : 3/12/2014 5:43 pm : link
than the rush blocking (being we were LAST in the NFL). Clearly you have to agree that this team only goes if Eli can pass so that skillset in an O-lineman has to take precendence.
No thanks  
Spock : 3/12/2014 5:47 pm : link
It now appears we are going after the third tier guys who have little appeal for whatever reason and come much cheaply. Oh well, I guess we have to deal with the cap.
Jay  
stretch234 : 3/12/2014 5:54 pm : link
The pass protection was much better in 2011. Eli had lanes to slide and move through the middle of the pocket. He had none of that in 2013. He could not step up and throw a pass last year
..................  
sphinx : 3/12/2014 6:32 pm : link
Dan Graziano ‏@DanGrazianoESPN 18m
RT @JordanRaanan: Shelley Smith is on his way to New England to meet with the Patriots. Still a chance something happens with Giants.

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