The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports four teams expressed interest in free agent OG Shelley Smith on Saturday.
Smith has appeared in 25 games, starting eight, the past two seasons. He played 371 offensive snaps in 2013 and received glowing reviews for his run-blocking. Smith is a strong pulling guard who would make sense for teams that implement zone-blocking schemes. The Rams don't appear to have much interest in re-signing Smith, even though they need a ton of help up front.
Source: St Louis Post-Dispatch
Mar 9 - 12:51 PM
to me. as long as the price is right i'm ok with it. an interior vet was necessary as mosley may not be ready to step up. also provides some insurance if Schwartz needs to be flexed out to T due to beatty
The Rams picked up Smith off the scrap heap in 2012, a former sixth-round pick whose early career was limited because of injuries. He was depth, and ended up starting six games in 2012. Last year, he only made two starts but played in 10 games, usually the run-blocking half of a rotation with Chris Williams. His play was enough of a revelation to make teams look ... just not the Rams apparently.
Shelley earned a 12.3 run blocking grade from Pro Football Focus, the second-best mark on the team behind Jake Long. The Rams also have an offense that leans heavily on the running game ... it might be wise to try and hang onto to Smith, especially if keeping Saffold is unlikely.
this guy is strictly an interior lineman. I guess he would provide added insurance in case Snee can't cut it or they don't draft a Guard. Nice to have more capable linemen IMO. Depth is sooo critical in the NFL and when you see what happened to our oline last year and the lack of depth you cringe. JR is taking the same approach he had last off-season with the DT situation and stacking linemen.
and this guy obviously don't make the line incredible but on paper it sure looks like a nice way to start to upgrade. Maybe you only need to use 1 "high" pick on the OL if you add these 2.
Smith is solid with quickness and agility and has good balance and punch, but he doesn't have the anchor and strength of the truly ideal guards. He's still a pretty good player, though.
That offensive line is tasked with protecting a quarterback who counts $17 million against the cap this season, a quarterback who the team desperately needs to reach at least 75 percent of his potential in order for the offense to score something more than 22 points per game for the first time since 2006, which also happens to be the last time the team won more than seven games.
What I'm trying to say is that rumors of the offensive line losing quality players is concerning. Juxtaposed with spending that money to correct past mistakes is especially concerning.
Conor Orr @ConorTOrr 39s
I'm hearing the #Patriots are also interested in bringing Shelley Smith in for a visit. So we'll see where the #Giants end up with him today
He had a pass block grade of -6.0 although -5.0 of that came in two games against the Titans and Seahawks. Otherwise he's average as a pass blocker, a very good run blocker and would make for a solid backup at both the right and left sides. Good signing if we can get him, imo.
Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan 42s
The #Giants have competition for guard Shelley Smith. He also has a scheduled visit with the Patriots on Thursday. #NFLFreeAgency
Who started 2 games on a bad Rams team? Why on earth would you tout him for that?
And the St. Louis Dispatch writer who said this, should be fired...
"Smith is a strong pulling guard who would make sense for teams that implement zone-blocking schemes."???????
So zone blocking, in which the entire line essentially moves laterally to create multiple running lanes likes a strong pulling guard???? WTF?? The zone blocking scheme simply does not use that.
who is knowledgeable about football stuff (but a Dolphins fan) sent me this today and it contained some good stuff about Shelley Smith:
Quote:
I hear Jerry Reese is now pursuing Shelley Smith and at this point Im about to just send in a resume to the Giants because were just on the same wavelength here. Geoff Schwartz and Shelley Smith at the guard positions, prioritizing the re-signing of Stevie Brown and Trumaine McBride at reasonable contracts, sending a sub-starter contract over to OBrien Schofield to hole in the defense I described beforeall of it makes too much sense.
Although I heard something disturbing about them thinking of using Geoff Schwartz at LEFT guard? Does that mean Shelley Smith would play RIGHT guard? Both would in all likelihood be a mistake.
Shelley Smith played right guard at St. Louis and he drew some positive PFF marks however he had some definite weaknesses that needed to be covered up. Specifically I believe you can cover up the worst of those weaknesses, while accentuating his strengths, by playing him at left guard.
Hes an excellent move player, moves well laterally and can get out in space and do things. If you go back in time that makes sense as most of his Combine #s put him in the top 5th to 10th percentile amongst guards tested at the Combine. Somewhat surprisingly for this type of player (300 pounder that moves well) hes also got straight ahead drive blocking game. Its somewhat surprising but then again when you consider the lower body explosion needed to produce a 32 inch vertical for a big fat offensive lineman, then it starts to make sense why he fires off the ball so explosively and effectively.
However none of that helps him anchor in pass pro where his sheer lack of size and lack of strength hurts him. One of the first things you should notice watching his 2013 tape at right guard is that he was vulnerable on his inside shoulder/leg. When defensive linemen get their helmet outside of his left shoulder, he could be had. Is that a generalized strength thing? Or is he just right handed and has a harder time anchoring the left side?
If its the latter then you need to move him to left guard. His inside shoulder cant be vulnerable as a right guard because cutting over to the inside shoulder gives a defensive lineman a sharper, quicker angle to the quarterback. It also flows against the grain of the lines general kick step movement in pass pro where everyone kind of fans from center outward. If youre going to constantly have your center protect his inside shoulder I guess thats one thing but you wont always be able to do that and in zone protections he shows the same weakness sliding back to his left to try and pick up a new threat to his zone (stunt, delayed blitz, etc).
Its just a hypothesis but I checked previous seasons tape with the Rams when Shelley played some left guard, and what I saw was consistent with what I thought I might see. His right shoulder (which at left guard is now his inside shoulder) wasnt as vulnerable as his left shoulder. He was able to step into contact better and his upper body strength seemed better. But now at left guard his weaker shoulder is the B gap. The weakness could be a problem if you have a 7-technique defensive end hard stepping an inside move into the B gap. That will test Shelley Smiths mettle if hes got to be the guy to pick him up. But as hes already flowing a bit to his left at the snap in pass pro sets, I think hes in better position to do it.
As for 3-techniques, he seems better able to handle them on his left shoulder when hes at left guardin part because hes already flowing that direction a little bit but also in part for the simple fact that when youre attacking the left shoulder of a left guard youre not cutting a straight line to the quarterback. Its closer to what a defensive end has to in order to get to the quarterback on an outside rush, and it takes pretty special ability to bend to be able to do that consistently because the angles favor the offensive linemen.
competition, depth.
If he brings ANYTHING they can use, don't let him leave.
Is R Wendall, the NE Center signed/re-signed?
He helps keep TB vertical, and snaps the ball back quickly and accurately in the shotgun(something NO current/very recently past Giants C can do).
No offense, but that is awful. So he's right handed and can't anchor on his left side so move him to the left and hope his left shoulder isn't exposed? You think that a guy who is essentially half good and half crap to move left and instantly that vulnerability is gone? If he's crap anchoring left he's crap anchoring 50% of the time regardless of what side he's on and that weakness isn't just gone because he switched sides.
I am just dumbfounded at what people spew out sometimes. If he's right handed by the way, he'll be better at RG because swinging your dominant leg is easier than the reverse so your pal is wrong and confused about biomechanics. Just awful.
I think the Rams actually played him at LG quite a bit anyway, so it's not like an outlandish theory though - his pass blocking at RG (through PFF at least) is much worse than at LG. Could be lots of reasons to explain it.
seem to have reputations and reports as really, really good run blockers.
TTH - much needed for this team, but it also seems their pass blocking leaves a lot to be desired. And well, we already saw Eli running around for his life last year.
But with patience, perseverance, and good coaching he became an integral (and versatile) part of our offensive line for the past three years. The Giants signed him, stuck with him, and he paid dividends for them.
Shelley Smith may not be the second coming of Carl Nicks. He may not even be the second coming of Kevin Boothe. But if the price is right he's worth taking a chance on. God knows the Giants need all of the O-Line help they can get.
will sign 2 more OL by Fri like I said yesterday,,OC and G.
Beatty health is a concern..plus Baas gone,,and Snee is
a player everyone on BBI thinks is starting,I think he
may make tean because FC but dont see him lasting long.
Pugh and Swartz is all we have.Lots of backups.
And the St. Louis Dispatch writer who said this, should be fired...
"Smith is a strong pulling guard who would make sense for teams that implement zone-blocking schemes."???????
So zone blocking, in which the entire line essentially moves laterally to create multiple running lanes likes a strong pulling guard???? WTF?? The zone blocking scheme simply does not use that.
Thanks Joey. I thought that was crazy when I first read it too. Guess it wasn't just me.
1) For the issues the Rams have had, why is their OL being pilfered?
2) I agree with Joey about the assessment of RG vs. LG.
3) I admit to not knowing enough about him to have my own opinion. But, when every write-up describes problems in pass protection, why is this a good thing? Our greatest weakness last year was pass protection, in my opinion.
4) Does anyone really think Snee won't be starting, if he is healthy?
I don't disagree. But, i don't think for a second that he won't be penciled in as a starter if he is healthy. Whether or not that is the correct move is another story. I think by restructuring him as opposed to cutting him/suggesting retirement, they plan to squeeze another year out of him as a starter.
I also don't think a signing like this would be with depth in mind. I may be in the minority here, but I think Mosely and Brewer provided decent depth last year and are now another year in. They obviously need more than that, but I'm not convinced they aren't considering Snee a starter, which means there is no other OG position after yesterday's signing.
I agree they need help in the run game as well. My point is they already signed a starting OG yesterday. I think they will be viewing the other OG position as Snee's to lose.
I don't disagree. But, i don't think for a second that he won't be penciled in as a starter if he is healthy. Whether or not that is the correct move is another story. I think by restructuring him as opposed to cutting him/suggesting retirement, they plan to squeeze another year out of him as a starter.
He might be pencilled in as starter for OTAs and camp, but I think they'll give others a chance to beat him out.
And that's assuming they don't view Schwartz as the new starting RG. Snee may have already lost his starting job (on paper).
All we (fans) know about the OL right now is that they have 2 guys that can be relied upon as starters: Pugh and Schwartz. We have no idea where they envision any of these guys playing. For all we know the current plan could be:
Pugh - Brewer - FA? - Snee - Schwartz with Beatty as the swing tackle
I don't either, but as of right now if the coaches believe Schwartz is best at RT (and I have no idea if they do), then it's between Brewer/Mosely/Snee for the guard spots.
Even if they see Beatty/Pugh as the bookends, you're still (currently) looking at one of Snee/Brewer/Mosely at the other OG spot.
Doesn't This Quote From An Earlier Post In This Thread
... whose early career was limited because of injuries.
I think the Giants need to focus on guys who have shown they can stay healthy. If they were limited due to injury when they were in their early / mid 20s, how likely is it they will be more healthy as they age?
I think the Giants need to focus on guys who have shown they can stay healthy. If they were limited due to injury when they were in their early / mid 20s, how likely is it they will be more healthy as they age?
If this is your criterial then the list of available guys who you like is going to be extremely small and limited.
I don't want a good run blocker with pass blocking issues
than the rush blocking (being we were LAST in the NFL). Clearly you have to agree that this team only goes if Eli can pass so that skillset in an O-lineman has to take precendence.
It now appears we are going after the third tier guys who have little appeal for whatever reason and come much cheaply. Oh well, I guess we have to deal with the cap.
The pass protection was much better in 2011. Eli had lanes to slide and move through the middle of the pocket. He had none of that in 2013. He could not step up and throw a pass last year
Dan Graziano @DanGrazianoESPN 18m
RT @JordanRaanan: Shelley Smith is on his way to New England to meet with the Patriots. Still a chance something happens with Giants.
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports four teams expressed interest in free agent OG Shelley Smith on Saturday.
Smith has appeared in 25 games, starting eight, the past two seasons. He played 371 offensive snaps in 2013 and received glowing reviews for his run-blocking. Smith is a strong pulling guard who would make sense for teams that implement zone-blocking schemes. The Rams don't appear to have much interest in re-signing Smith, even though they need a ton of help up front.
Source: St Louis Post-Dispatch
Mar 9 - 12:51 PM
This. And he'd be a great pickup, assuming we don't break the bank.
Dan, what are you talking about? We have to use out first pick on an OL because that was our most glaring need in February.
Shelley earned a 12.3 run blocking grade from Pro Football Focus, the second-best mark on the team behind Jake Long. The Rams also have an offense that leans heavily on the running game ... it might be wise to try and hang onto to Smith, especially if keeping Saffold is unlikely.
"Rams not interested in re-signing him..."
ummm???
Smith is the #3 listed guard with a B- rating ...
Link - ( New Window )
What I'm trying to say is that rumors of the offensive line losing quality players is concerning. Juxtaposed with spending that money to correct past mistakes is especially concerning.
Is there a hurry on 3/12/14? Can we give it time?
I'm hearing the #Patriots are also interested in bringing Shelley Smith in for a visit. So we'll see where the #Giants end up with him today
He had a pass block grade of -6.0 although -5.0 of that came in two games against the Titans and Seahawks. Otherwise he's average as a pass blocker, a very good run blocker and would make for a solid backup at both the right and left sides. Good signing if we can get him, imo.
sounds like a 'zone' guy that does not fit Fisher's power scheme
The #Giants have competition for guard Shelley Smith. He also has a scheduled visit with the Patriots on Thursday. #NFLFreeAgency
Shelley Smith is a very good Run Blocking OG.. he'd allow the Patriots to release Dan Connolly or move him to Center.
And the St. Louis Dispatch writer who said this, should be fired...
"Smith is a strong pulling guard who would make sense for teams that implement zone-blocking schemes."???????
So zone blocking, in which the entire line essentially moves laterally to create multiple running lanes likes a strong pulling guard???? WTF?? The zone blocking scheme simply does not use that.
Shelley: " Double it."
Reese: " Deal."
Micko " WTF!"
BB'56: " Micko, you're missing the point."
Although I heard something disturbing about them thinking of using Geoff Schwartz at LEFT guard? Does that mean Shelley Smith would play RIGHT guard? Both would in all likelihood be a mistake.
Shelley Smith played right guard at St. Louis and he drew some positive PFF marks however he had some definite weaknesses that needed to be covered up. Specifically I believe you can cover up the worst of those weaknesses, while accentuating his strengths, by playing him at left guard.
Hes an excellent move player, moves well laterally and can get out in space and do things. If you go back in time that makes sense as most of his Combine #s put him in the top 5th to 10th percentile amongst guards tested at the Combine. Somewhat surprisingly for this type of player (300 pounder that moves well) hes also got straight ahead drive blocking game. Its somewhat surprising but then again when you consider the lower body explosion needed to produce a 32 inch vertical for a big fat offensive lineman, then it starts to make sense why he fires off the ball so explosively and effectively.
However none of that helps him anchor in pass pro where his sheer lack of size and lack of strength hurts him. One of the first things you should notice watching his 2013 tape at right guard is that he was vulnerable on his inside shoulder/leg. When defensive linemen get their helmet outside of his left shoulder, he could be had. Is that a generalized strength thing? Or is he just right handed and has a harder time anchoring the left side?
If its the latter then you need to move him to left guard. His inside shoulder cant be vulnerable as a right guard because cutting over to the inside shoulder gives a defensive lineman a sharper, quicker angle to the quarterback. It also flows against the grain of the lines general kick step movement in pass pro where everyone kind of fans from center outward. If youre going to constantly have your center protect his inside shoulder I guess thats one thing but you wont always be able to do that and in zone protections he shows the same weakness sliding back to his left to try and pick up a new threat to his zone (stunt, delayed blitz, etc).
Its just a hypothesis but I checked previous seasons tape with the Rams when Shelley played some left guard, and what I saw was consistent with what I thought I might see. His right shoulder (which at left guard is now his inside shoulder) wasnt as vulnerable as his left shoulder. He was able to step into contact better and his upper body strength seemed better. But now at left guard his weaker shoulder is the B gap. The weakness could be a problem if you have a 7-technique defensive end hard stepping an inside move into the B gap. That will test Shelley Smiths mettle if hes got to be the guy to pick him up. But as hes already flowing a bit to his left at the snap in pass pro sets, I think hes in better position to do it.
As for 3-techniques, he seems better able to handle them on his left shoulder when hes at left guardin part because hes already flowing that direction a little bit but also in part for the simple fact that when youre attacking the left shoulder of a left guard youre not cutting a straight line to the quarterback. Its closer to what a defensive end has to in order to get to the quarterback on an outside rush, and it takes pretty special ability to bend to be able to do that consistently because the angles favor the offensive linemen.
If he brings ANYTHING they can use, don't let him leave.
Is R Wendall, the NE Center signed/re-signed?
He helps keep TB vertical, and snaps the ball back quickly and accurately in the shotgun(something NO current/very recently past Giants C can do).
I am just dumbfounded at what people spew out sometimes. If he's right handed by the way, he'll be better at RG because swinging your dominant leg is easier than the reverse so your pal is wrong and confused about biomechanics. Just awful.
I think the Rams actually played him at LG quite a bit anyway, so it's not like an outlandish theory though - his pass blocking at RG (through PFF at least) is much worse than at LG. Could be lots of reasons to explain it.
We don't need a center ... Eli will just pick up the ball in front of the NT ... and drop back fast ... sort of like last year ...
TTH - much needed for this team, but it also seems their pass blocking leaves a lot to be desired. And well, we already saw Eli running around for his life last year.
Gotta start somewhere, I suppose...
Shelley Smith may not be the second coming of Carl Nicks. He may not even be the second coming of Kevin Boothe. But if the price is right he's worth taking a chance on. God knows the Giants need all of the O-Line help they can get.
Beatty health is a concern..plus Baas gone,,and Snee is
a player everyone on BBI thinks is starting,I think he
may make tean because FC but dont see him lasting long.
Pugh and Swartz is all we have.Lots of backups.
And the St. Louis Dispatch writer who said this, should be fired...
"Smith is a strong pulling guard who would make sense for teams that implement zone-blocking schemes."???????
So zone blocking, in which the entire line essentially moves laterally to create multiple running lanes likes a strong pulling guard???? WTF?? The zone blocking scheme simply does not use that.
Thanks Joey. I thought that was crazy when I first read it too. Guess it wasn't just me.
Now now, radar. Are you implying that a preponderance of black guys have girly names?
2) I agree with Joey about the assessment of RG vs. LG.
3) I admit to not knowing enough about him to have my own opinion. But, when every write-up describes problems in pass protection, why is this a good thing? Our greatest weakness last year was pass protection, in my opinion.
4) Does anyone really think Snee won't be starting, if he is healthy?
As much of it as possible.
He might be pencilled in as starter for OTAs and camp, but I think they'll give others a chance to beat him out.
And that's assuming they don't view Schwartz as the new starting RG. Snee may have already lost his starting job (on paper).
All we (fans) know about the OL right now is that they have 2 guys that can be relied upon as starters: Pugh and Schwartz. We have no idea where they envision any of these guys playing. For all we know the current plan could be:
Pugh - Brewer - FA? - Snee - Schwartz with Beatty as the swing tackle
I don't either, but as of right now if the coaches believe Schwartz is best at RT (and I have no idea if they do), then it's between Brewer/Mosely/Snee for the guard spots.
Even if they see Beatty/Pugh as the bookends, you're still (currently) looking at one of Snee/Brewer/Mosely at the other OG spot.
I think the Giants need to focus on guys who have shown they can stay healthy. If they were limited due to injury when they were in their early / mid 20s, how likely is it they will be more healthy as they age?
I think the Giants need to focus on guys who have shown they can stay healthy. If they were limited due to injury when they were in their early / mid 20s, how likely is it they will be more healthy as they age?
If this is your criterial then the list of available guys who you like is going to be extremely small and limited.
We did not have good pass protection in 2011. Eli masked the poor play of the offensive line.
RT @JordanRaanan: Shelley Smith is on his way to New England to meet with the Patriots. Still a chance something happens with Giants.