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With the 12th pick of the 2014 NFL Draft the NYG select.....

Jumbo : 3/19/2014 8:12 pm
Aaron Donald, DT, University of Pittsburgh. I haven't posted in quite awhile but I had to throw this on. Donald had a killer combine. At 6'1" 285 lbs he ran a 4.68 40, and benched 225lbs. 35 times. Was 1st team all-American and all ACC. Was Outland Trophy, Chuck Bednarik and Bronko Nagurski Award winner....Athletic freak who was unblockable last year. He is totally a Jerry Reese type pick.
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Coughlin likes his DTs Tall & Big  
drkenneth : 3/19/2014 9:17 pm : link
See: Henderson, Stroud, Canty, L. Joseph. Hankins, Cofield.

Need I say more?
I love Donald....  
Wonderphil11 : 3/19/2014 9:18 pm : link
but I'm starting to think the Giants would prefer Jernigan so I'm not going to get my hopes up. I also think the QB's will drop which would limit the possibility he's there at 12 but would also make a trade down scenario a bit more likely....but I think it would be a mistake to pass up on this kind of pressure from the DT position as all I see are ??? with the Giants rush right now.
I think drafting Big DTs early in the draft  
SteelGiant : 3/19/2014 9:37 pm : link
is going to be something of the past. First, The NFL is no longer run first or run often league. The Passing game has now become the focus of most offenses around the league.

If you are going to play a 3-4, then yes you would like to have a big, large strong, nose tackle. However even 3-4 nose tackles are getting smaller and faster around the league due to the fact it makes little sense to pay big money on a possible 1 to 2 down player.

However is in 4-3 it even makes less sense to not get a smaller faster DT. It is going to be hard to find these players because there is not many of them out there right now. Coughlin and the Giants have drafted guys like this is the past because the league was so Run heavy.

In todays NFL and the future NFL it is going to be easy to find big DTs to play 1 to 2 run downs but hard to find really good pass rushing DTs. This is our chance to be on the forefront of having our own.
So everyone's cool with bringing back Mike Patterson  
sjnyfan : 3/19/2014 9:49 pm : link
who's 6'1", 300 lbs (and was 5'11", 292 at his pro day and still a 1st rounder back in '05) but Aaron Donald is too small?
RE: I would like it  
AcidTest : 3/19/2014 9:53 pm : link
In comment 11575609 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
But I don't see it happening. Reese is more of a height/weight/speed guy than people realize.

Two of my top 20 guys are Donald and LB Chris Borland. I can't see Reese drafting either.


This. Like most, I'm high on Donald, but I agree that despite his strength, there are legitimate questions about whether he could hold up against the run in the NFL. I also agree with Sy that he probably isn't a Reese guy. I say probably, because the Giants care about production even more than size.

Look at a guy like Moore. Rotten workouts, but Ross gets up and talks about his production all day long. Same for Herman. All those pancake blocks. The Giants value production more than anything else. all the way through the draft. That could tip the scales in favor of Donald, despite his size.

If they don't go for Donald, watch out for Jay Bromley of Syracuse early on Day three. The Giants apparently met with him. That may not mean anything, but he's rising, and had a good career at Syracuse, especially this last season.
I don't know if I see a trend...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 9:57 pm : link
To me, the observations about our preference for larger DT's are valid. To me it's more about what a special talent Donald is. I don't expect 285 pounders to be taken top 15 in the draft going forward.

I see Donald as more than just a DT. He has lined up at DE, and the team that drafts him would be able to move him all over the line.
I think the whole.. how much he weighs this is ridiculous  
Blue Blood : 3/19/2014 10:03 pm : link
for the type of player he is.. If he was 15 lbs heavier and 300lbs exactly how does that make him a better player.. I mean really.. do we think that an NFL lineman cant push an extra 15 lbs especially when its spread all over someone's physique ??
Until I saw the tape  
Marty866b : 3/19/2014 10:08 pm : link
I was hoping that we go offensive line then I saw tape of Donald. I don't recall in my almost 50 years of being a draftnik a player that dominated in the interior as Donald does. He has incredibly quickness and great technique. He's strong as an ox and lives in the backfield. How will he fare against the inside run is the question but I am on board if he's our pick. Otherwise, it better be an offensive lineman IMO.
Just what the Giants need  
Jupiter : 3/19/2014 10:27 pm : link
A #1 draft pick who has to change positions to compete in the NFL.
Wanted Ebron till I saw the tapes  
Maineline : 3/19/2014 10:32 pm : link
Any 285 pound man that can run about 4.6 40 and do 35 reps of 225lbs is freakishly strong and fast and after watching him on tape I was a convert and will now be very disappointed if we do not get to add him to the team. It would not surprise me if he has a better career then the almost mythical DE Clownsy.
RE: Just how is this a  
mrvax : 3/19/2014 10:41 pm : link
In comment 11575529 BillT said:
Quote:
Reese like his DTs big and tall. 6'4/5" or so. 310/20 or so. Donald is short and small even for a college DT. Great athlete but how well will he do with a 320 lb. OG nose on nose with him week after week. I think he might be best as a 3-4 OLB like a bigger Terrell Suggs. There is always the exception though. Is he that guy?


Bill: Walterfootball makes this comment:
Quote:
He absolutely destroyed massive Baylor guard Cyril Richardson on some bull rushes.


Cyril Richardson is 6'5" and 329 pounds.
Look...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 10:45 pm : link
the NFL is a team sport, but what gives one team an advantage over another is when players win their individual matchups. This is especially true on the line.

What I want more than anything else at #12 is a guy who is going to win his individual match-ups all the time. A guy who is going to force the other team to cheat somewhere.

I like Donald because based on what I'm seeing in the mocks, he is likely to be there and at that point he is the guy who I see as most likely to win his individual match-ups consistently. I will be happy with anyone they can get who can do the same, and I do see others who look like they can do that.

I don't want someone serviceable at 12. Not a guy who we can plug in and expect him to play well for 10 years. That was okay in the last draft, and if all the truly dominant players are left, I guess that's what we'll get. In that case I would prefer to trade down and make sure to get at least two or three of those guys.

But if we have a chance at 12 to get a guy who can consistently make the other team cheat, change their schemes, double-team, then we should do that.

I don't know how you can watch the tapes of Donald and NOT see that he does that consistently. Even the tapes of games where BBI-ers are saying that he did nothing are full of examples of the other team having to double or triple team him - or try some kind of trickery to avoid him sitting in the QB's lap. There are other games you watch where he just completely can take over the game - destroying the other line over and over again.
RE: Just how is this a  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 10:57 pm : link
In comment 11575529 BillT said:
Quote:
Reese like his DTs big and tall. 6'4/5" or so. 310/20 or so. Donald is short and small even for a college DT. Great athlete but how well will he do with a 320 lb. OG nose on nose with him week after week. I think he might be best as a 3-4 OLB like a bigger Terrell Suggs. There is always the exception though. Is he that guy?


Actually, look at last year's opening day roster at the position:

Linval Joseph 6'4"
Cullen Jenkins 6'2"
Jonathan Hankins 6'2" (by the way, the latest Reese pick at this position)
Mike Patterson 6'1"
Shaun Rogers 6'4"
Markus Kuhn 6'4"

So even though in 2013 Reese signed two free agent DT's at 6'2 and 6'1, and drafted another at 6'2, this year 6'1 is not a "Reese" pick because he's not "6'4/5" or so"?

I don't doubt that all things being equal, the Giants would rather get a guy with height (like Canty) and size. That's not to say that all things are equal, and especially not in the case of Donald vs. the rest of the DT class.
Donald is my early favorite..  
Blue Blood : 3/19/2014 11:07 pm : link
from what I have been seeing of him online.. he plays hard and seems to have great work ethic... and he is an impact player at his position..
Walter Football A Donald Profile & SR Bowl Review  
geelabee : 3/19/2014 11:08 pm : link
"Donald was the most impressive player at the Senior Bowl. He destroyed the offensive linemen in the pass-rushing one-on-ones and carried that over into the team scrimmage. Donald dominated the consensus-top guard in the draft class, Baylor's Cyril Richardson, as he burned him with speed rushes. Donald also beat Richardson with powerful bull rushes despite Richardson having a 50-pound advantage. Donald put on a show with his pass-rushing ability as he was excellent in every practice in Mobile. "
Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
This team needs a pass rush!  
glowrider : 3/19/2014 11:09 pm : link
This guy is going to terrorize opponents.
I'm all for it..  
prdave73 : 3/19/2014 11:11 pm : link
Understand that the Dline right now is in need since Joseph and Tuck left. I really think we have something in Moore he just needs for reps and experience. With Kiwi and Jpp the Giants should be ok for now at DE, but the interior is a huge question mark. Donald would help solidify the DT position by creating pressure which in case would help the DE's and our improved secondary:) I also believe the LT position is a huge need right now, but hopefully they take care of this in FA or in the 2nd of the draft.
Been really hyping Donald tonight...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 11:14 pm : link
and this thread is all about him, so why not add in some more reasons why he would be a great pick at 12.

Watch the video for the comparison to Geno Atkins. You know Mr. Atkins, who at 6'1" 303 lbs is a terror at the DT position. He who had 6 sacks through 8 games from the DT spot last year before tearing his ACL.

For those of you who love the PFF stats, here's what they had to say about Atkins after ranking him the #2 defensive interior lineman over the last five years:
Quote:
2. Geno Atkins, Cincinnati Bengals (+130.4)

The scary thing for all the future challengers here is that Atkins made it to second spot despite playing in only three seasons. Imagine where he’d be (first) and by how much (a lot) if he came into the league two years earlier?

After an encouraging rookie year that highlighted his potential, Atkins would go onto finish second overall in our defensive tackle rankings in his second campaign. But that was just a tip of the iceberg compared to his 2012 season where he didn’t just top our rankings, but had a grade over twice as good as the next best defensive tackle. At the moment Atkins isn’t just the best defensive tackle in football, he’s a candidate for the best player out there.


Atkins is a tremendous player. Yes, he has 18 pounds over Donald's combine weight, but give Donald some time in an NFL weight room and see where he gets to. I think the comp is an excellent one, and encourage you to watch the video if you think Donald would be a bad choice at 12 in April.
From NFL.com - comparison of Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
BBC  
BestFeature : 3/19/2014 11:17 pm : link
I'm not qualified to speak on this, but it seems to me like a poor strategy to base a player's NFL potential on one game.
Okay...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 11:20 pm : link
and to terrorize everyone, Dallas seems certain to grab him if he gets to 16 as they already brought him in for a visit. Check out this quote he gave after his visit to the Cowboys:

Quote:
“You never know,” Donald said Wednesday morning on 105.3 The Fan [KRLD-FM]. “At the end of the day you never know what team still wants what player. You just never know with the draft.”
(italics, bold, and underline added)

Don't you see - he's already speaking the NYG language? He'll communicate well with Rolle - future defensive captain here. ;>
If he's 285 right now he'll easily be 290-300 by September  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2014 11:21 pm : link
.
Dan, you're speaking my language  
sjnyfan : 3/19/2014 11:31 pm : link
Very big fan of Donald and that's the pick I want at 12. I'm so tired of the size talk. All this guy does is play and does so at an extremely high level. I've devoted more posts on him than any other player in recent memory. WE NEED Donald at 12. More importantly we can't let him get to Dallas at 16. He's going to abuse O-lines for years to come. It may as well be for us.
RE: If he's 285 right now he'll easily be 290-300 by September  
Blue Blood : 3/20/2014 12:03 am : link
In comment 11575795 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.


and I still dont understand what a few pounds brings to his game...
I think this FA period really shows that Reese understands it's a  
BestFeature : 3/20/2014 12:46 am : link
passing league, shoring up our defensive backfield. He also left the D-line largely untouched. So maybe he wants to fill it in the draft.
RE: RE: If he's 285 right now he'll easily be 290-300 by September  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2014 1:03 am : link
In comment 11575829 Blue Blood said:
Quote:
In comment 11575795 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


.



and I still dont understand what a few pounds brings to his game...


Functional strength, durability, etc. It's one thing to play at 285 in college. It's another to play at 285 in the pros when every offensive lineman is a legit 300+ with excellent strength, and you're playing 16 games.

Lineman lose weight over the course of a season. It takes effort week to week to keep it up when you're working that hard, especially in heat.

If there was no reason for it, or it didn't add anything, NFL strength programs wouldn't be as important as they are.
Inside pass rush  
uconngiant : 3/20/2014 1:53 am : link
I remember the 2007 Super Bowl and how having pressure up the middle hurt Tom Brady and help push the Giant's to a victory. I have always thought the most helpful pass rush comes from inside. I hope the Giant's take Donald with the 12th pick.
Just watched the Miami tape,  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/20/2014 3:09 am : link
looks like they were focused on Donald, often doubling him. I think if your 3T is getting doubled, that's a win for your defense and MLB right there. It wasn't a double with the OG peeling off, they stayed on Donald. And I disagree that he had no impact, he garnered a holding call and definitely disrupted the QB.
Love the Donald.but I.think Giants may have heart set on Ebron  
GmenDynasty : 3/20/2014 3:44 am : link
Only comp likely would.be.Buffalo as a.combination of value in this draft too high to go TE higher as well.as.Buffalos.need.for.weapons for.a young.QB in Manuel.
getting pressure up the middle is the #1 way to disrupt a passing game  
oipolloi : 3/20/2014 3:45 am : link
Tuck did that against Brady in the SB in 2007/8 and it completely disrupted what was one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history.

stopping the run is obviously important. But you can count on one hand the DTs that could get sacks and stop the run.Nobody is winning a SB today running between the tackles. It is all about the passing game.

I'm 50/50 on Donald. But worrying about his running stopping ability should not be a major factor. The question is whether he can get pressure agst much bigger OL.
combine Donald.with.a healthy JPP  
GmenDynasty : 3/20/2014 3:55 am : link
And you.have the makings of a lethal.pass.rush.inside and.out.
Again Dan  
BigBlueCane : 3/20/2014 4:20 am : link
Miami's interior isn't ANY good at all. Don't tell me that as good as Donald is supposed to be, that he can't whip our sorry OL but yeah he's gonna be great against NFL OL.
RE: Coughlin likes his DTs Tall & Big  
Optimus-NY : 3/20/2014 4:52 am : link
In comment 11575625 drkenneth said:
Quote:
See: Henderson, Stroud, Canty, L. Joseph. Hankins, Cofield.

Need I say more?


Remember what Brady said about the Giants' D-Line in SB 46? He said it was like throwing through a forest.
Donald reminds me of Rich Glover  
gtt350 : 3/20/2014 5:56 am : link
Glover was always in on the tackle unfortunately it was always 5 to 7 yards downfield. no to Donald, he will get owned in the NFL
Donald  
TMS : 3/20/2014 8:52 am : link
constitutes a gamble because of his size at the DT position. We should not be taking gambles with the 12th pick in the draft. Reese gambled on Sintim, Austin, Barden, etc. No more gambles. The guy is under sized period.
every player in the draft is a gamble...  
nyblue56 : 3/20/2014 10:13 am : link
how many top 10 picks dont live up to the hype and end up as bust? Forget about this guys size, beleive what your eyes are telling you. he is a footbal player. take a look at the levelrage and technique he uses. take a look at how he uses his hands. Dont argue with your eyes, what you are seeing will translate very well in the NFL. this guy can play DT or DE and excel at both. He is an impact player.
So better to draft Donald and then fix the O-line  
Jimmy Googs : 3/20/2014 10:20 am : link
in 2015?

Schwartz is nice but he can only play one position at a time.



Donald is the guy I want them to pick  
Patrick77 : 3/20/2014 10:29 am : link
Every player is a gamble and because of his size he is definitely a gamble, but the quickness, speend, and strength is undeniable. If he continues to get stronger, plays with proper technique and gives 100% I don't see any way he isn't an impact player in the NFL.

I will agree that maybe you don't want him at DT on many run downs or the goalline but you could move him out to DE IMO for some downs. To me he sounds like a Randle, Sapp, Atkins, or even Ratliff type of player. He can always pack on a few more pounds if need be but he is going to blow up some plays just based on his quickness and strentgth. I think in the NFL teams will try to run right at him with success and I think often in between successful runs he will get a big tackle for a loss, pressure, or be in the backfield early. If Hankins and our linebackers do their job a guy like Donald can provide pressure inside. Right now we only have Jenkins for that, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jenkins played a lot of time at DE next year.

That would be up to Reese...  
nyblue56 : 3/20/2014 10:35 am : link
as to what he sees is more important. I dont care wether we get a blue chip OL or DL. However to dismiss Donald base on size is silly. If the decison is Donald I am more then happy.
RE: Miami's interior  
NJGiantFan84 : 3/20/2014 10:36 am : link
In comment 11575547 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
which isn't any good, Owned Donald all game. Tell me again how he's gonna have any impact or effect at the NFL level.


Everyone has bad games. You need to look at the body of work.
the funny thing is the miami...  
nyblue56 : 3/20/2014 10:49 am : link
game would be considered a very good game for anyother DT not name Donald.
I agree that dismissing Donald just for the size factor  
Jimmy Googs : 3/20/2014 11:00 am : link
is too harsh, but obviously everything is fair-game when you are finalizing your top pick.

I also typically defer to the BPA strategy each year, but at least try to narrow it down somewha) into area(s) of need as well in order to get the best of both worlds.

In this case; however, I consider O-line an area of DESPERATION so I am looking for Reese to play it smart there.
RE: RE: Just how is this a  
buljos : 3/20/2014 12:24 pm : link
In comment 11575759 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 11575529 BillT said:


Quote:


Reese like his DTs big and tall. 6'4/5" or so. 310/20 or so. Donald is short and small even for a college DT. Great athlete but how well will he do with a 320 lb. OG nose on nose with him week after week. I think he might be best as a 3-4 OLB like a bigger Terrell Suggs. There is always the exception though. Is he that guy?



Actually, look at last year's opening day roster at the position:

Linval Joseph 6'4"
Cullen Jenkins 6'2"
Jonathan Hankins 6'2" (by the way, the latest Reese pick at this position)
Mike Patterson 6'1"
Shaun Rogers 6'4"
Markus Kuhn 6'4"

So even though in 2013 Reese signed two free agent DT's at 6'2 and 6'1, and drafted another at 6'2, this year 6'1 is not a "Reese" pick because he's not "6'4/5" or so"?

I don't doubt that all things being equal, the Giants would rather get a guy with height (like Canty) and size. That's not to say that all things are equal, and especially not in the case of Donald vs. the rest of the DT class.


Thanks... puts to rest the inaccurate perception that the Giants DTs must be tall big guys. Patterson's how much taller than Donald? This DT's as fast as a LB, and if Donald's being double and triple teamed as a Giant, then JPP, D'Monster, Jenkins, Hankins, etc. ought to be ashamed. Would I want a 3rd and long package to be JPP, D'Monster, Jenkins and Donald, with our outstanding secondary in coverage? Yes, I would.
TRADE on Draft Day  
MadTeck : 3/20/2014 12:29 pm : link
The last time the Giants made a major splash on draft day was 11 yrs ago. We got our franchise QB and two Super Bowl wins. A draft day dream would be to trade 2014 Rd 2 & Rd 3 + 2015 Rd 2 & Rd 3 for 2014 #1 pick. The Texans could rebuild the next two yrs. We have many pieces but not a DL presence, Clowney on one side and a healthy JPP on the other. The tandem would be unstoppable, especially with the DB roster we have now.. It's a pipe dream, but it would get more Lombardi's in Big Blue's trophy case.
Letting Tuck go with what Justin claimed was an insulting  
Lurts : 3/20/2014 12:50 pm : link
offer, rather than keeping their options open, suggests that Reese was ready to move on. Reese does not move on without a pretty good plan. I wouldn't be surprised if Donald is his man.
Donald replaces Tuck?  
Jimmy Googs : 3/20/2014 1:11 pm : link
Is this a fair view that he can play DE in the pros?

No, doesn't replace Tuck  
jeff57 : 3/20/2014 1:14 pm : link
But he can play DE in certain situtations.
RE: Donald reminds me of Rich Glover  
TMS : 3/20/2014 2:34 pm : link
In comment 11575883 gtt350 said:
Quote:
Glover was always in on the tackle unfortunately it was always 5 to 7 yards downfield. no to Donald, he will get owned in the NFL
This is an excellent comparison. Glover was a big favorite in college and was blown away in the NFL. Why because he was too small and could not get off blocks or disengage from the bigger OL here.
Glover was a third round pick  
Lurts : 3/20/2014 3:12 pm : link
for a reason.
Rich Glover was 6-1 240  
jeff57 : 3/20/2014 3:15 pm : link
John Mendanhall was 6-1 255.
I guess Strahan...  
nyblue56 : 3/20/2014 3:58 pm : link
at 255-260 was getting blown off the line by OLs as well.
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