Aaron Donald, DT, University of Pittsburgh. I haven't posted in quite awhile but I had to throw this on. Donald had a killer combine. At 6'1" 285 lbs he ran a 4.68 40, and benched 225lbs. 35 times. Was 1st team all-American and all ACC. Was Outland Trophy, Chuck Bednarik and Bronko Nagurski Award winner....Athletic freak who was unblockable last year. He is totally a Jerry Reese type pick.
Need I say more?
If you are going to play a 3-4, then yes you would like to have a big, large strong, nose tackle. However even 3-4 nose tackles are getting smaller and faster around the league due to the fact it makes little sense to pay big money on a possible 1 to 2 down player.
However is in 4-3 it even makes less sense to not get a smaller faster DT. It is going to be hard to find these players because there is not many of them out there right now. Coughlin and the Giants have drafted guys like this is the past because the league was so Run heavy.
In todays NFL and the future NFL it is going to be easy to find big DTs to play 1 to 2 run downs but hard to find really good pass rushing DTs. This is our chance to be on the forefront of having our own.
Two of my top 20 guys are Donald and LB Chris Borland. I can't see Reese drafting either.
This. Like most, I'm high on Donald, but I agree that despite his strength, there are legitimate questions about whether he could hold up against the run in the NFL. I also agree with Sy that he probably isn't a Reese guy. I say probably, because the Giants care about production even more than size.
Look at a guy like Moore. Rotten workouts, but Ross gets up and talks about his production all day long. Same for Herman. All those pancake blocks. The Giants value production more than anything else. all the way through the draft. That could tip the scales in favor of Donald, despite his size.
If they don't go for Donald, watch out for Jay Bromley of Syracuse early on Day three. The Giants apparently met with him. That may not mean anything, but he's rising, and had a good career at Syracuse, especially this last season.
I see Donald as more than just a DT. He has lined up at DE, and the team that drafts him would be able to move him all over the line.
Bill: Walterfootball makes this comment:
Cyril Richardson is 6'5" and 329 pounds.
What I want more than anything else at #12 is a guy who is going to win his individual match-ups all the time. A guy who is going to force the other team to cheat somewhere.
I like Donald because based on what I'm seeing in the mocks, he is likely to be there and at that point he is the guy who I see as most likely to win his individual match-ups consistently. I will be happy with anyone they can get who can do the same, and I do see others who look like they can do that.
I don't want someone serviceable at 12. Not a guy who we can plug in and expect him to play well for 10 years. That was okay in the last draft, and if all the truly dominant players are left, I guess that's what we'll get. In that case I would prefer to trade down and make sure to get at least two or three of those guys.
But if we have a chance at 12 to get a guy who can consistently make the other team cheat, change their schemes, double-team, then we should do that.
I don't know how you can watch the tapes of Donald and NOT see that he does that consistently. Even the tapes of games where BBI-ers are saying that he did nothing are full of examples of the other team having to double or triple team him - or try some kind of trickery to avoid him sitting in the QB's lap. There are other games you watch where he just completely can take over the game - destroying the other line over and over again.
Actually, look at last year's opening day roster at the position:
Linval Joseph 6'4"
Cullen Jenkins 6'2"
Jonathan Hankins 6'2" (by the way, the latest Reese pick at this position)
Mike Patterson 6'1"
Shaun Rogers 6'4"
Markus Kuhn 6'4"
So even though in 2013 Reese signed two free agent DT's at 6'2 and 6'1, and drafted another at 6'2, this year 6'1 is not a "Reese" pick because he's not "6'4/5" or so"?
I don't doubt that all things being equal, the Giants would rather get a guy with height (like Canty) and size. That's not to say that all things are equal, and especially not in the case of Donald vs. the rest of the DT class.
Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
Watch the video for the comparison to Geno Atkins. You know Mr. Atkins, who at 6'1" 303 lbs is a terror at the DT position. He who had 6 sacks through 8 games from the DT spot last year before tearing his ACL.
For those of you who love the PFF stats, here's what they had to say about Atkins after ranking him the #2 defensive interior lineman over the last five years:
The scary thing for all the future challengers here is that Atkins made it to second spot despite playing in only three seasons. Imagine where he’d be (first) and by how much (a lot) if he came into the league two years earlier?
After an encouraging rookie year that highlighted his potential, Atkins would go onto finish second overall in our defensive tackle rankings in his second campaign. But that was just a tip of the iceberg compared to his 2012 season where he didn’t just top our rankings, but had a grade over twice as good as the next best defensive tackle. At the moment Atkins isn’t just the best defensive tackle in football, he’s a candidate for the best player out there.
Atkins is a tremendous player. Yes, he has 18 pounds over Donald's combine weight, but give Donald some time in an NFL weight room and see where he gets to. I think the comp is an excellent one, and encourage you to watch the video if you think Donald would be a bad choice at 12 in April.
From NFL.com - comparison of Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
Don't you see - he's already speaking the NYG language? He'll communicate well with Rolle - future defensive captain here. ;>
and I still dont understand what a few pounds brings to his game...
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and I still dont understand what a few pounds brings to his game...
Functional strength, durability, etc. It's one thing to play at 285 in college. It's another to play at 285 in the pros when every offensive lineman is a legit 300+ with excellent strength, and you're playing 16 games.
Lineman lose weight over the course of a season. It takes effort week to week to keep it up when you're working that hard, especially in heat.
If there was no reason for it, or it didn't add anything, NFL strength programs wouldn't be as important as they are.
stopping the run is obviously important. But you can count on one hand the DTs that could get sacks and stop the run.Nobody is winning a SB today running between the tackles. It is all about the passing game.
I'm 50/50 on Donald. But worrying about his running stopping ability should not be a major factor. The question is whether he can get pressure agst much bigger OL.
Need I say more?
Remember what Brady said about the Giants' D-Line in SB 46? He said it was like throwing through a forest.
Schwartz is nice but he can only play one position at a time.
I will agree that maybe you don't want him at DT on many run downs or the goalline but you could move him out to DE IMO for some downs. To me he sounds like a Randle, Sapp, Atkins, or even Ratliff type of player. He can always pack on a few more pounds if need be but he is going to blow up some plays just based on his quickness and strentgth. I think in the NFL teams will try to run right at him with success and I think often in between successful runs he will get a big tackle for a loss, pressure, or be in the backfield early. If Hankins and our linebackers do their job a guy like Donald can provide pressure inside. Right now we only have Jenkins for that, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jenkins played a lot of time at DE next year.
Everyone has bad games. You need to look at the body of work.
I also typically defer to the BPA strategy each year, but at least try to narrow it down somewha) into area(s) of need as well in order to get the best of both worlds.
In this case; however, I consider O-line an area of DESPERATION so I am looking for Reese to play it smart there.
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Reese like his DTs big and tall. 6'4/5" or so. 310/20 or so. Donald is short and small even for a college DT. Great athlete but how well will he do with a 320 lb. OG nose on nose with him week after week. I think he might be best as a 3-4 OLB like a bigger Terrell Suggs. There is always the exception though. Is he that guy?
Actually, look at last year's opening day roster at the position:
Linval Joseph 6'4"
Cullen Jenkins 6'2"
Jonathan Hankins 6'2" (by the way, the latest Reese pick at this position)
Mike Patterson 6'1"
Shaun Rogers 6'4"
Markus Kuhn 6'4"
So even though in 2013 Reese signed two free agent DT's at 6'2 and 6'1, and drafted another at 6'2, this year 6'1 is not a "Reese" pick because he's not "6'4/5" or so"?
I don't doubt that all things being equal, the Giants would rather get a guy with height (like Canty) and size. That's not to say that all things are equal, and especially not in the case of Donald vs. the rest of the DT class.
Thanks... puts to rest the inaccurate perception that the Giants DTs must be tall big guys. Patterson's how much taller than Donald? This DT's as fast as a LB, and if Donald's being double and triple teamed as a Giant, then JPP, D'Monster, Jenkins, Hankins, etc. ought to be ashamed. Would I want a 3rd and long package to be JPP, D'Monster, Jenkins and Donald, with our outstanding secondary in coverage? Yes, I would.