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With the 12th pick of the 2014 NFL Draft the NYG select.....

Jumbo : 3/19/2014 8:12 pm
Aaron Donald, DT, University of Pittsburgh. I haven't posted in quite awhile but I had to throw this on. Donald had a killer combine. At 6'1" 285 lbs he ran a 4.68 40, and benched 225lbs. 35 times. Was 1st team all-American and all ACC. Was Outland Trophy, Chuck Bednarik and Bronko Nagurski Award winner....Athletic freak who was unblockable last year. He is totally a Jerry Reese type pick.
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Im all for drafting  
EliDLINEera : 3/19/2014 8:20 pm : link
Aaron Donald...its a weak Dline draft imo...so get one of the best dlinemen in college with your top pick n get your offense after since its deep at OLine & WR.
John Mendenhall....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/19/2014 8:20 pm : link
....returns!
I'll just ask since you mention  
Sir-Yes-Sir : 3/19/2014 8:20 pm : link
his height and weight...are you ok with an interior lineman in today's nfl playing at that size?

I hear people compare him to John Randle alot, but I'm not sure Randle would have been as effective in today's game where the average interior O-lineman is 6'5" and 310

I've got a lot of respect for Donald, but his size worries me.
He got owned  
BigBlueCane : 3/19/2014 8:22 pm : link
by Miami's OL.

And they're not any good.
I hope we are not disappointed on draft night  
geelabee : 3/19/2014 8:26 pm : link
Donald is flying up the draft board...since the 2013 highlight tape was even more impressive then the combine performance....At this point the other teams see the same thing....Donald would have clearly been the consensus #1 pic if he were 6'4' rather then 6'5/8'...everybody is coming around with the same thought at the same time and unfortunately don't think he will be around when the Giants pick @12...not to sound ridiculous...Donald looked like the second coming of LT...completely unblockable, disruptive, and
Just how is this a "Jerry Reese" pick  
BillT : 3/19/2014 8:28 pm : link
Reese like his DTs big and tall. 6'4/5" or so. 310/20 or so. Donald is short and small even for a college DT. Great athlete but how well will he do with a 320 lb. OG nose on nose with him week after week. I think he might be best as a 3-4 OLB like a bigger Terrell Suggs. There is always the exception though. Is he that guy?
Great feed back guys  
Jumbo : 3/19/2014 8:37 pm : link
Is he a bit undersized? Yes, but as someone wrote his 2013 highlight tape speaks for itself. I called him a JR type pick because of the giants emphasis on getting to the QB. For as undersized as he is he can get to the QB quite frequently. The TE from UNC would be a big mistake here. It's gotta be Donald or Lewan if one is available.
BillT and anyone that has doubts...  
geelabee : 3/19/2014 8:37 pm : link
Might want to review his 2013....disruptive, strong, and completely disruptive, his strength now at 35 rep on the bench press puts him in the top couple percent of NFL...the guy is a beast and hoping he is the pick:
Aaron Donald 2013 Highlights - ( New Window )
Miami's interior  
BigBlueCane : 3/19/2014 8:38 pm : link
which isn't any good, Owned Donald all game. Tell me again how he's gonna have any impact or effect at the NFL level.
Jumbo59?  
Big Blue '56 : 3/19/2014 8:41 pm : link
.
BigBlueCane  
geelabee : 3/19/2014 8:44 pm : link
Watch the tape and get back to me....
Well you can watch the clips...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 8:47 pm : link
Here's almost 8 minutes of Donald against Miami. What do you see?

I see snap after snap of him drawing double and sometimes triple teams. I see lots of snaps with him totally stonewalled against the double team. I see lots of other snaps where he is able to break through against the double team and apply pressure.

I see a few snaps where they tried to block him one-on-one and in all those cases but one I saw Donald beating his blocker regularly. I only saw one case where he went up against his man one on one and got no movement.

Even though he was double-teamed almost the entire game I saw the pocket still being pushed back and collapsing often because of Donald.


I see a team which obviously game planned to not let Donald beat them. I saw what looked like a holding call, and then I saw Donald definitely being held, and then I saw Donald almost make two safeties.

I know he got shut out statistically, but from watching the clips of the game it doesn't look like he had no impact. He was commanding double and triple teams all night and still made his presence felt, even though he didn't record any sacks, qb hits, turnovers, and only one TFL.

In my mind, I'll take that kind of production ANY DAY from a DT. Remember, DT is the defensive position where guys will often have one or two tackles and still get lauded for playing well.

People complained like crazy that we lost Linval (I also didn't want to lose him). What did he do? Well he didn't always face a double team, but he regularly averaged between 3 and four combined tackles per game, and got a sack every 5 games or so.

Aaron Donald being held to 3 tackles by Miami is actually not a terrible thing, all things considered.
Aaron Donald vs. Miami 2013 - ( New Window )
Dan  
SteelGiant : 3/19/2014 8:54 pm : link
Thanks for typing all of that. I was watching the video because I thought the comment was ridiculous and thought I better do research before responding. You saved me a lot of time. He was doubled almost every play and he even beat the double a couple times.

I am a huge Donald fan
I aslo want to note one more thing about the Miami game  
SteelGiant : 3/19/2014 8:59 pm : link
if you watch the video you will notice that Pitt tried to move Donald around line just to catch Miami sleeping, but as you will see they were so focused on the gameplan that Donald was even double when he moved.

Pitt had no other defenders that could take advantage of Aaron getting double teamed. If they ever have send that much attention on the NFL, game over with our DEs.

He has speed, strength, long arms, and great technique. How important is size in that case. We don't run a 3-4 defense, I don't want a statue, I want some one who shed and attack.
I would like it  
Sy'56 : 3/19/2014 9:07 pm : link
But I don't see it happening. Reese is more of a height/weight/speed guy than people realize.

Two of my top 20 guys are Donald and LB Chris Borland. I can't see Reese drafting either.
the tape tells me he's  
Sir-Yes-Sir : 3/19/2014 9:09 pm : link
exceptionally quick off the ball and can penetrate between the pre snap gaps in the line, highly effectively

it does not tell me how he stands up against a strong running game and big bodies double teaming him in the middle. those plays on that tape are extremely rare in the nfl against pro o-linemen. if he can do that at the next level, he will be one very unique player
RE: I'll just ask since you mention  
Mason : 3/19/2014 9:12 pm : link
In comment 11575514 Sir-Yes-Sir said:
Quote:
his height and weight...are you ok with an interior lineman in today's nfl playing at that size?

I hear people compare him to John Randle alot, but I'm not sure Randle would have been as effective in today's game where the average interior O-lineman is 6'5" and 310

I've got a lot of respect for Donald, but his size worries me.


I like him but size worries ne a lot. I rather go with Su a Filo if ge is there or trade down and grab the BPA at OG/T or DT.
Coughlin likes his DTs Tall & Big  
drkenneth : 3/19/2014 9:17 pm : link
See: Henderson, Stroud, Canty, L. Joseph. Hankins, Cofield.

Need I say more?
I love Donald....  
Wonderphil11 : 3/19/2014 9:18 pm : link
but I'm starting to think the Giants would prefer Jernigan so I'm not going to get my hopes up. I also think the QB's will drop which would limit the possibility he's there at 12 but would also make a trade down scenario a bit more likely....but I think it would be a mistake to pass up on this kind of pressure from the DT position as all I see are ??? with the Giants rush right now.
I think drafting Big DTs early in the draft  
SteelGiant : 3/19/2014 9:37 pm : link
is going to be something of the past. First, The NFL is no longer run first or run often league. The Passing game has now become the focus of most offenses around the league.

If you are going to play a 3-4, then yes you would like to have a big, large strong, nose tackle. However even 3-4 nose tackles are getting smaller and faster around the league due to the fact it makes little sense to pay big money on a possible 1 to 2 down player.

However is in 4-3 it even makes less sense to not get a smaller faster DT. It is going to be hard to find these players because there is not many of them out there right now. Coughlin and the Giants have drafted guys like this is the past because the league was so Run heavy.

In todays NFL and the future NFL it is going to be easy to find big DTs to play 1 to 2 run downs but hard to find really good pass rushing DTs. This is our chance to be on the forefront of having our own.
So everyone's cool with bringing back Mike Patterson  
sjnyfan : 3/19/2014 9:49 pm : link
who's 6'1", 300 lbs (and was 5'11", 292 at his pro day and still a 1st rounder back in '05) but Aaron Donald is too small?
RE: I would like it  
AcidTest : 3/19/2014 9:53 pm : link
In comment 11575609 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
But I don't see it happening. Reese is more of a height/weight/speed guy than people realize.

Two of my top 20 guys are Donald and LB Chris Borland. I can't see Reese drafting either.


This. Like most, I'm high on Donald, but I agree that despite his strength, there are legitimate questions about whether he could hold up against the run in the NFL. I also agree with Sy that he probably isn't a Reese guy. I say probably, because the Giants care about production even more than size.

Look at a guy like Moore. Rotten workouts, but Ross gets up and talks about his production all day long. Same for Herman. All those pancake blocks. The Giants value production more than anything else. all the way through the draft. That could tip the scales in favor of Donald, despite his size.

If they don't go for Donald, watch out for Jay Bromley of Syracuse early on Day three. The Giants apparently met with him. That may not mean anything, but he's rising, and had a good career at Syracuse, especially this last season.
I don't know if I see a trend...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 9:57 pm : link
To me, the observations about our preference for larger DT's are valid. To me it's more about what a special talent Donald is. I don't expect 285 pounders to be taken top 15 in the draft going forward.

I see Donald as more than just a DT. He has lined up at DE, and the team that drafts him would be able to move him all over the line.
I think the whole.. how much he weighs this is ridiculous  
Blue Blood : 3/19/2014 10:03 pm : link
for the type of player he is.. If he was 15 lbs heavier and 300lbs exactly how does that make him a better player.. I mean really.. do we think that an NFL lineman cant push an extra 15 lbs especially when its spread all over someone's physique ??
Until I saw the tape  
Marty866b : 3/19/2014 10:08 pm : link
I was hoping that we go offensive line then I saw tape of Donald. I don't recall in my almost 50 years of being a draftnik a player that dominated in the interior as Donald does. He has incredibly quickness and great technique. He's strong as an ox and lives in the backfield. How will he fare against the inside run is the question but I am on board if he's our pick. Otherwise, it better be an offensive lineman IMO.
Just what the Giants need  
Jupiter : 3/19/2014 10:27 pm : link
A #1 draft pick who has to change positions to compete in the NFL.
Wanted Ebron till I saw the tapes  
Maineline : 3/19/2014 10:32 pm : link
Any 285 pound man that can run about 4.6 40 and do 35 reps of 225lbs is freakishly strong and fast and after watching him on tape I was a convert and will now be very disappointed if we do not get to add him to the team. It would not surprise me if he has a better career then the almost mythical DE Clownsy.
RE: Just how is this a  
mrvax : 3/19/2014 10:41 pm : link
In comment 11575529 BillT said:
Quote:
Reese like his DTs big and tall. 6'4/5" or so. 310/20 or so. Donald is short and small even for a college DT. Great athlete but how well will he do with a 320 lb. OG nose on nose with him week after week. I think he might be best as a 3-4 OLB like a bigger Terrell Suggs. There is always the exception though. Is he that guy?


Bill: Walterfootball makes this comment:
Quote:
He absolutely destroyed massive Baylor guard Cyril Richardson on some bull rushes.


Cyril Richardson is 6'5" and 329 pounds.
Look...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 10:45 pm : link
the NFL is a team sport, but what gives one team an advantage over another is when players win their individual matchups. This is especially true on the line.

What I want more than anything else at #12 is a guy who is going to win his individual match-ups all the time. A guy who is going to force the other team to cheat somewhere.

I like Donald because based on what I'm seeing in the mocks, he is likely to be there and at that point he is the guy who I see as most likely to win his individual match-ups consistently. I will be happy with anyone they can get who can do the same, and I do see others who look like they can do that.

I don't want someone serviceable at 12. Not a guy who we can plug in and expect him to play well for 10 years. That was okay in the last draft, and if all the truly dominant players are left, I guess that's what we'll get. In that case I would prefer to trade down and make sure to get at least two or three of those guys.

But if we have a chance at 12 to get a guy who can consistently make the other team cheat, change their schemes, double-team, then we should do that.

I don't know how you can watch the tapes of Donald and NOT see that he does that consistently. Even the tapes of games where BBI-ers are saying that he did nothing are full of examples of the other team having to double or triple team him - or try some kind of trickery to avoid him sitting in the QB's lap. There are other games you watch where he just completely can take over the game - destroying the other line over and over again.
RE: Just how is this a  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 10:57 pm : link
In comment 11575529 BillT said:
Quote:
Reese like his DTs big and tall. 6'4/5" or so. 310/20 or so. Donald is short and small even for a college DT. Great athlete but how well will he do with a 320 lb. OG nose on nose with him week after week. I think he might be best as a 3-4 OLB like a bigger Terrell Suggs. There is always the exception though. Is he that guy?


Actually, look at last year's opening day roster at the position:

Linval Joseph 6'4"
Cullen Jenkins 6'2"
Jonathan Hankins 6'2" (by the way, the latest Reese pick at this position)
Mike Patterson 6'1"
Shaun Rogers 6'4"
Markus Kuhn 6'4"

So even though in 2013 Reese signed two free agent DT's at 6'2 and 6'1, and drafted another at 6'2, this year 6'1 is not a "Reese" pick because he's not "6'4/5" or so"?

I don't doubt that all things being equal, the Giants would rather get a guy with height (like Canty) and size. That's not to say that all things are equal, and especially not in the case of Donald vs. the rest of the DT class.
Donald is my early favorite..  
Blue Blood : 3/19/2014 11:07 pm : link
from what I have been seeing of him online.. he plays hard and seems to have great work ethic... and he is an impact player at his position..
Walter Football A Donald Profile & SR Bowl Review  
geelabee : 3/19/2014 11:08 pm : link
"Donald was the most impressive player at the Senior Bowl. He destroyed the offensive linemen in the pass-rushing one-on-ones and carried that over into the team scrimmage. Donald dominated the consensus-top guard in the draft class, Baylor's Cyril Richardson, as he burned him with speed rushes. Donald also beat Richardson with powerful bull rushes despite Richardson having a 50-pound advantage. Donald put on a show with his pass-rushing ability as he was excellent in every practice in Mobile. "
Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
This team needs a pass rush!  
glowrider : 3/19/2014 11:09 pm : link
This guy is going to terrorize opponents.
I'm all for it..  
prdave73 : 3/19/2014 11:11 pm : link
Understand that the Dline right now is in need since Joseph and Tuck left. I really think we have something in Moore he just needs for reps and experience. With Kiwi and Jpp the Giants should be ok for now at DE, but the interior is a huge question mark. Donald would help solidify the DT position by creating pressure which in case would help the DE's and our improved secondary:) I also believe the LT position is a huge need right now, but hopefully they take care of this in FA or in the 2nd of the draft.
Been really hyping Donald tonight...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 11:14 pm : link
and this thread is all about him, so why not add in some more reasons why he would be a great pick at 12.

Watch the video for the comparison to Geno Atkins. You know Mr. Atkins, who at 6'1" 303 lbs is a terror at the DT position. He who had 6 sacks through 8 games from the DT spot last year before tearing his ACL.

For those of you who love the PFF stats, here's what they had to say about Atkins after ranking him the #2 defensive interior lineman over the last five years:
Quote:
2. Geno Atkins, Cincinnati Bengals (+130.4)

The scary thing for all the future challengers here is that Atkins made it to second spot despite playing in only three seasons. Imagine where he’d be (first) and by how much (a lot) if he came into the league two years earlier?

After an encouraging rookie year that highlighted his potential, Atkins would go onto finish second overall in our defensive tackle rankings in his second campaign. But that was just a tip of the iceberg compared to his 2012 season where he didn’t just top our rankings, but had a grade over twice as good as the next best defensive tackle. At the moment Atkins isn’t just the best defensive tackle in football, he’s a candidate for the best player out there.


Atkins is a tremendous player. Yes, he has 18 pounds over Donald's combine weight, but give Donald some time in an NFL weight room and see where he gets to. I think the comp is an excellent one, and encourage you to watch the video if you think Donald would be a bad choice at 12 in April.
From NFL.com - comparison of Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
BBC  
BestFeature : 3/19/2014 11:17 pm : link
I'm not qualified to speak on this, but it seems to me like a poor strategy to base a player's NFL potential on one game.
Okay...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/19/2014 11:20 pm : link
and to terrorize everyone, Dallas seems certain to grab him if he gets to 16 as they already brought him in for a visit. Check out this quote he gave after his visit to the Cowboys:

Quote:
“You never know,” Donald said Wednesday morning on 105.3 The Fan [KRLD-FM]. “At the end of the day you never know what team still wants what player. You just never know with the draft.”
(italics, bold, and underline added)

Don't you see - he's already speaking the NYG language? He'll communicate well with Rolle - future defensive captain here. ;>
If he's 285 right now he'll easily be 290-300 by September  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2014 11:21 pm : link
.
Dan, you're speaking my language  
sjnyfan : 3/19/2014 11:31 pm : link
Very big fan of Donald and that's the pick I want at 12. I'm so tired of the size talk. All this guy does is play and does so at an extremely high level. I've devoted more posts on him than any other player in recent memory. WE NEED Donald at 12. More importantly we can't let him get to Dallas at 16. He's going to abuse O-lines for years to come. It may as well be for us.
RE: If he's 285 right now he'll easily be 290-300 by September  
Blue Blood : 3/20/2014 12:03 am : link
In comment 11575795 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.


and I still dont understand what a few pounds brings to his game...
I think this FA period really shows that Reese understands it's a  
BestFeature : 3/20/2014 12:46 am : link
passing league, shoring up our defensive backfield. He also left the D-line largely untouched. So maybe he wants to fill it in the draft.
RE: RE: If he's 285 right now he'll easily be 290-300 by September  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2014 1:03 am : link
In comment 11575829 Blue Blood said:
Quote:
In comment 11575795 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


.



and I still dont understand what a few pounds brings to his game...


Functional strength, durability, etc. It's one thing to play at 285 in college. It's another to play at 285 in the pros when every offensive lineman is a legit 300+ with excellent strength, and you're playing 16 games.

Lineman lose weight over the course of a season. It takes effort week to week to keep it up when you're working that hard, especially in heat.

If there was no reason for it, or it didn't add anything, NFL strength programs wouldn't be as important as they are.
Inside pass rush  
uconngiant : 3/20/2014 1:53 am : link
I remember the 2007 Super Bowl and how having pressure up the middle hurt Tom Brady and help push the Giant's to a victory. I have always thought the most helpful pass rush comes from inside. I hope the Giant's take Donald with the 12th pick.
Just watched the Miami tape,  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/20/2014 3:09 am : link
looks like they were focused on Donald, often doubling him. I think if your 3T is getting doubled, that's a win for your defense and MLB right there. It wasn't a double with the OG peeling off, they stayed on Donald. And I disagree that he had no impact, he garnered a holding call and definitely disrupted the QB.
Love the Donald.but I.think Giants may have heart set on Ebron  
GmenDynasty : 3/20/2014 3:44 am : link
Only comp likely would.be.Buffalo as a.combination of value in this draft too high to go TE higher as well.as.Buffalos.need.for.weapons for.a young.QB in Manuel.
getting pressure up the middle is the #1 way to disrupt a passing game  
oipolloi : 3/20/2014 3:45 am : link
Tuck did that against Brady in the SB in 2007/8 and it completely disrupted what was one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history.

stopping the run is obviously important. But you can count on one hand the DTs that could get sacks and stop the run.Nobody is winning a SB today running between the tackles. It is all about the passing game.

I'm 50/50 on Donald. But worrying about his running stopping ability should not be a major factor. The question is whether he can get pressure agst much bigger OL.
combine Donald.with.a healthy JPP  
GmenDynasty : 3/20/2014 3:55 am : link
And you.have the makings of a lethal.pass.rush.inside and.out.
Again Dan  
BigBlueCane : 3/20/2014 4:20 am : link
Miami's interior isn't ANY good at all. Don't tell me that as good as Donald is supposed to be, that he can't whip our sorry OL but yeah he's gonna be great against NFL OL.
RE: Coughlin likes his DTs Tall & Big  
Optimus-NY : 3/20/2014 4:52 am : link
In comment 11575625 drkenneth said:
Quote:
See: Henderson, Stroud, Canty, L. Joseph. Hankins, Cofield.

Need I say more?


Remember what Brady said about the Giants' D-Line in SB 46? He said it was like throwing through a forest.
Donald reminds me of Rich Glover  
gtt350 : 3/20/2014 5:56 am : link
Glover was always in on the tackle unfortunately it was always 5 to 7 yards downfield. no to Donald, he will get owned in the NFL
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