Aaron Donald, DT, University of Pittsburgh. I haven't posted in quite awhile but I had to throw this on. Donald had a killer combine. At 6'1" 285 lbs he ran a 4.68 40, and benched 225lbs. 35 times. Was 1st team all-American and all ACC. Was Outland Trophy, Chuck Bednarik and Bronko Nagurski Award winner....Athletic freak who was unblockable last year. He is totally a Jerry Reese type pick.
I hear people compare him to John Randle alot, but I'm not sure Randle would have been as effective in today's game where the average interior O-lineman is 6'5" and 310
I've got a lot of respect for Donald, but his size worries me.
And they're not any good.
Aaron Donald 2013 Highlights - ( New Window )
I see snap after snap of him drawing double and sometimes triple teams. I see lots of snaps with him totally stonewalled against the double team. I see lots of other snaps where he is able to break through against the double team and apply pressure.
I see a few snaps where they tried to block him one-on-one and in all those cases but one I saw Donald beating his blocker regularly. I only saw one case where he went up against his man one on one and got no movement.
Even though he was double-teamed almost the entire game I saw the pocket still being pushed back and collapsing often because of Donald.
I see a team which obviously game planned to not let Donald beat them. I saw what looked like a holding call, and then I saw Donald definitely being held, and then I saw Donald almost make two safeties.
I know he got shut out statistically, but from watching the clips of the game it doesn't look like he had no impact. He was commanding double and triple teams all night and still made his presence felt, even though he didn't record any sacks, qb hits, turnovers, and only one TFL.
In my mind, I'll take that kind of production ANY DAY from a DT. Remember, DT is the defensive position where guys will often have one or two tackles and still get lauded for playing well.
People complained like crazy that we lost Linval (I also didn't want to lose him). What did he do? Well he didn't always face a double team, but he regularly averaged between 3 and four combined tackles per game, and got a sack every 5 games or so.
Aaron Donald being held to 3 tackles by Miami is actually not a terrible thing, all things considered.
Aaron Donald vs. Miami 2013 - ( New Window )
I am a huge Donald fan
Pitt had no other defenders that could take advantage of Aaron getting double teamed. If they ever have send that much attention on the NFL, game over with our DEs.
He has speed, strength, long arms, and great technique. How important is size in that case. We don't run a 3-4 defense, I don't want a statue, I want some one who shed and attack.
Two of my top 20 guys are Donald and LB Chris Borland. I can't see Reese drafting either.
it does not tell me how he stands up against a strong running game and big bodies double teaming him in the middle. those plays on that tape are extremely rare in the nfl against pro o-linemen. if he can do that at the next level, he will be one very unique player
I hear people compare him to John Randle alot, but I'm not sure Randle would have been as effective in today's game where the average interior O-lineman is 6'5" and 310
I've got a lot of respect for Donald, but his size worries me.
I like him but size worries ne a lot. I rather go with Su a Filo if ge is there or trade down and grab the BPA at OG/T or DT.
Need I say more?
If you are going to play a 3-4, then yes you would like to have a big, large strong, nose tackle. However even 3-4 nose tackles are getting smaller and faster around the league due to the fact it makes little sense to pay big money on a possible 1 to 2 down player.
However is in 4-3 it even makes less sense to not get a smaller faster DT. It is going to be hard to find these players because there is not many of them out there right now. Coughlin and the Giants have drafted guys like this is the past because the league was so Run heavy.
In todays NFL and the future NFL it is going to be easy to find big DTs to play 1 to 2 run downs but hard to find really good pass rushing DTs. This is our chance to be on the forefront of having our own.
Two of my top 20 guys are Donald and LB Chris Borland. I can't see Reese drafting either.
This. Like most, I'm high on Donald, but I agree that despite his strength, there are legitimate questions about whether he could hold up against the run in the NFL. I also agree with Sy that he probably isn't a Reese guy. I say probably, because the Giants care about production even more than size.
Look at a guy like Moore. Rotten workouts, but Ross gets up and talks about his production all day long. Same for Herman. All those pancake blocks. The Giants value production more than anything else. all the way through the draft. That could tip the scales in favor of Donald, despite his size.
If they don't go for Donald, watch out for Jay Bromley of Syracuse early on Day three. The Giants apparently met with him. That may not mean anything, but he's rising, and had a good career at Syracuse, especially this last season.
I see Donald as more than just a DT. He has lined up at DE, and the team that drafts him would be able to move him all over the line.
Bill: Walterfootball makes this comment:
Cyril Richardson is 6'5" and 329 pounds.
What I want more than anything else at #12 is a guy who is going to win his individual match-ups all the time. A guy who is going to force the other team to cheat somewhere.
I like Donald because based on what I'm seeing in the mocks, he is likely to be there and at that point he is the guy who I see as most likely to win his individual match-ups consistently. I will be happy with anyone they can get who can do the same, and I do see others who look like they can do that.
I don't want someone serviceable at 12. Not a guy who we can plug in and expect him to play well for 10 years. That was okay in the last draft, and if all the truly dominant players are left, I guess that's what we'll get. In that case I would prefer to trade down and make sure to get at least two or three of those guys.
But if we have a chance at 12 to get a guy who can consistently make the other team cheat, change their schemes, double-team, then we should do that.
I don't know how you can watch the tapes of Donald and NOT see that he does that consistently. Even the tapes of games where BBI-ers are saying that he did nothing are full of examples of the other team having to double or triple team him - or try some kind of trickery to avoid him sitting in the QB's lap. There are other games you watch where he just completely can take over the game - destroying the other line over and over again.
Actually, look at last year's opening day roster at the position:
Linval Joseph 6'4"
Cullen Jenkins 6'2"
Jonathan Hankins 6'2" (by the way, the latest Reese pick at this position)
Mike Patterson 6'1"
Shaun Rogers 6'4"
Markus Kuhn 6'4"
So even though in 2013 Reese signed two free agent DT's at 6'2 and 6'1, and drafted another at 6'2, this year 6'1 is not a "Reese" pick because he's not "6'4/5" or so"?
I don't doubt that all things being equal, the Giants would rather get a guy with height (like Canty) and size. That's not to say that all things are equal, and especially not in the case of Donald vs. the rest of the DT class.
Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
Watch the video for the comparison to Geno Atkins. You know Mr. Atkins, who at 6'1" 303 lbs is a terror at the DT position. He who had 6 sacks through 8 games from the DT spot last year before tearing his ACL.
For those of you who love the PFF stats, here's what they had to say about Atkins after ranking him the #2 defensive interior lineman over the last five years:
The scary thing for all the future challengers here is that Atkins made it to second spot despite playing in only three seasons. Imagine where he’d be (first) and by how much (a lot) if he came into the league two years earlier?
After an encouraging rookie year that highlighted his potential, Atkins would go onto finish second overall in our defensive tackle rankings in his second campaign. But that was just a tip of the iceberg compared to his 2012 season where he didn’t just top our rankings, but had a grade over twice as good as the next best defensive tackle. At the moment Atkins isn’t just the best defensive tackle in football, he’s a candidate for the best player out there.
Atkins is a tremendous player. Yes, he has 18 pounds over Donald's combine weight, but give Donald some time in an NFL weight room and see where he gets to. I think the comp is an excellent one, and encourage you to watch the video if you think Donald would be a bad choice at 12 in April.
From NFL.com - comparison of Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
Don't you see - he's already speaking the NYG language? He'll communicate well with Rolle - future defensive captain here. ;>
and I still dont understand what a few pounds brings to his game...
Quote:
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and I still dont understand what a few pounds brings to his game...
Functional strength, durability, etc. It's one thing to play at 285 in college. It's another to play at 285 in the pros when every offensive lineman is a legit 300+ with excellent strength, and you're playing 16 games.
Lineman lose weight over the course of a season. It takes effort week to week to keep it up when you're working that hard, especially in heat.
If there was no reason for it, or it didn't add anything, NFL strength programs wouldn't be as important as they are.
stopping the run is obviously important. But you can count on one hand the DTs that could get sacks and stop the run.Nobody is winning a SB today running between the tackles. It is all about the passing game.
I'm 50/50 on Donald. But worrying about his running stopping ability should not be a major factor. The question is whether he can get pressure agst much bigger OL.
Need I say more?
Remember what Brady said about the Giants' D-Line in SB 46? He said it was like throwing through a forest.