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NYG Free Agency and roster implications - Offense ONLY

JOMO25 : 3/21/2014 8:31 am
QB - signed Painter, but I'd be surprised and/or disappointed if Nassib wasn't the only "other" QB on the roster.

RB - Jennings should be good "honest days work" RB who isn't special but does everything fairly well. I like the Hillis signing b/c I think he also has multiple skills (short yardage/pass catcher/blocker). I think they view Wilson with great uncertainty now (how could they not?). If he contributes in '14, its a pleasant surprise. I would bet Michael Cox has an uphill battle on his hands to make the team. The fact that he never really contributed as a RB (despite tons of injuries to guys ahead of him) or KR (generally ineffective) and that they replaced him as a KR via FA doesn't bode well for him. Prediction: they need some speed at the position. Maybe a late pick on a guy like James White or troubled Isiah Crowell may occur.

WR: Cruz is elite. Randle is more of a # 3 right now. He certainly has the talent to elevate that status. Needs to work harder, perhaps on the field, but certainly in the film room. Jernigan hopefully builds on his late '13 surge, but I am cynical. Despite the nice handful of games, he just doesn't appear too dynamic. Manningham is a nice add if he's healthy (which Eric doubted in his Wednesday write-up). For me, draft targets include Rd 1: Evans (no other WRs make sense that high and I don't think Lee is attractive at 12). Rd 2: Matthews, Adams. Rds 3/4: Moncreif, possibly Bryant (although I am on the fence w him). I do like Jeff Janus as a late rounder. I don't think we will draft any of the small WRs given our current corps.

TE: Other than a couple of unproven guys with decent potential, the roster cupboard is bare. I think the universal BBI sentiment is that a TE will be selected early. Needs to be one of the top 5 guys b/c the talent is very top heavy at this position in this draft. Prediction: Rd 1/2 combo is either Ebron/Matthews or Evans/Niklas.

LT: I think Pugh makes the flip to the left side. Its a more important position and Beatty (to me) isn't tough enough to handle the responsibility.

LG: Schwartz. I could see a mid rounder on a guy like Penn State's John Urschel to add to the interior OL mix. Brewer, like Beatty, is a nice guy w plus athletic ability for a 300+lb guy but both severely lack the requisite toughness to thrive in the sport.

C: Walton w/ a late pick on Ikard or Lindsay to back him up. I think both are very advanced skill wise and should be able to handle the jump to the NFL well.

RG: I think this is a Snee/Mosely combo. If selected, Urschel can factor in here (when Snee goes down).

RT: Beatty will be in the mix b/c they won't cut him this year. But I don't see him having a long Giants career. The sooner they admit the mistake (w/ the contract) the better. I suspect they will draft a RT. Draft targets include: Rd 1 = none, Rd 2 = Bitonio. Rd 3 = Jack Mewhort would be a guy that could win the job and do well in year one. Rd 4 = Seantrel Henderson. Rd 5 = Cameron Fleming.
Beatty's contract was a mistake?  
Giantology : 3/21/2014 8:39 am : link
Prior to last year he had been arguably our most consistent OL for the previous 2 seasons. He earned his starting role and he earned a starting LT's $$$. Let's see how he recovers this year before we decide he won't be here long.

That doesn't mean that I think we should avoid OT in the draft, either.
Arguably our best OL?  
JOMO25 : 3/21/2014 8:53 am : link
as compared to the rest of the crap we had elsewhere? Its a fair statement, but Beatty simply isn't tough enough to succeed in this league.
so your saying he isnt tough enough  
Blue Blood : 3/21/2014 8:56 am : link
even though he was tough enough for the two years prior to last year...
How did Beatty  
pjcas18 : 3/21/2014 8:58 am : link
succeed in 2011 (until being injured) and 2012 where was legitimately one of the better tackles in the league?

Just a question, I honestly don't know the answer.

It is in the Giants best interest to fix Beatty, not part with him, at least for the next couple years.
I think he's just okay as  
JOMO25 : 3/21/2014 9:01 am : link
a finesse LT. I think you guys are overrating his performance in the prior two years (as did Reese).
Does he need to be more than ok?  
pjcas18 : 3/21/2014 9:03 am : link
here is a PFF write up from their 2012 OL rankings:

Quote:
11. New York Giants (31)

PB – 20th, RB – 4th, PEN – 12th

Stud: Though he gets next to no praise, Will Beatty (+22.4) had a year that warranted Pro Bowl consideration. The penalties aren’t ideal, but there are not many left tackles who can keep their quarterback upright and generate movement in the run game.

Dud: It was David Diehl (-6.2) again, but the truth is he actually performed a lot better in the second half of the season compared to the liability we’ve known him to be.

Summary: A big improvement from this line, which was terrible in 2011. They made a big contribution in the running game while ensuring Eli Manning faced significantly less pressure. Still, this line is in transition to a degree with a few of players getting to that age where the cliff is approaching.
Here is a nother OL ranking  
pjcas18 : 3/21/2014 9:12 am : link
where they call Beatty "an elite pass blocker". Obviously they have positions wrong, this was after the 2013 draft, but before the season. The rankings after run and pass are from football outsiders.

I think that's a stretch, but i don't feel fans are or were overrating Beatty after 2012,. he had a good year. 2013 was terrible and I think the coaching staff needs to fix him. He doesn't need to be elite, just good enough.

Quote:
4. New York Giants (5)

2012 Run Block Rankings: 4, 2
2012 Pass Block Rankings: 18, 3

LT: Will Beatty
LG: Justin Pugh*
C: David Baas
RG: Chris Snee
RT: James Brewer*
Super Sub: G/T David Diehl

Overview: The names aren't flashy, but this quietly was about as good an offensive line as there was in the league last season, and doesn't lose a single starter. As a team, the G-Men ranked seventh in yards-per-carry average (4.55) despite several running back injuries, and allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL (20). Most critically, Beatty unseated Diehl on the blindside and emerged as an elite pass-blocking left tackle. Another consideration for Super Sub was guard Kevin Boothe, a returning starter who -- like Diehl -- I project to come off the bench, providing quality veteran depth. The assumptions here are mauling 2011 fourth-rounder Brewer beats out Diehl and 2013 first-rounder Pugh takes over at left guard, where he compares favorably to Andy Levitre. OT Brandon Mosley, 24, and OG Eric Herman, 23, are young reserve options with upside.
I think its off base  
JOMO25 : 3/21/2014 9:16 am : link
I also think that even if the leg heals (likely, I suppose), we're talking about a light in the pants guy who won't be able to work out his lower body for months to come. Since strength is his problem, not working out will worsen his issues.
That write up definitely solidifies that they are....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/21/2014 9:20 am : link
....Football OUTSIDERS!
Beatty's leg  
pjcas18 : 3/21/2014 9:23 am : link
is probably healed and he's probably rehabbing - I'd love to get an update on him. He broke his leg, and I think that's all he did. It's been almost 3 months.

It doesn't matter how we evaluate Beatty (you and I that is) I think it's irrelevant to the point it's in the teams best interest to fix him.

If that means making him a RT ok, but cutting him sooner than later or acknowledging his contract was a mistake (I'm not convinced) isn't financially feasible for two years.

By cutting him in 2015 the Giants only save 550k of cap space. It just doesn't make sense.

2016 is the first year I believe it makes financial sense to even consider cutting him.
Beatty is not a RT. we need him to rebound but we also are rail thin  
George from PA : 3/21/2014 9:36 am : link
At tackle.....we need to add depth at tackle.....but I suspect the starters remain
boy, this thread turned  
JOMO25 : 3/21/2014 10:02 am : link
Beatty centric, huh
well  
Doomster : 3/21/2014 10:09 am : link
We are more or less stuck with him through 2015.....

To move Pugh to Beatty's spot would make this line more chaotic....what we need is a good blocking TE, who can help out on Beatty's side....of course, if Beatty's leg is a problem, then there could be a big shuffle of the OL, and there just aren't enough horses to pull the wagon......
Beatty  
old man : 3/21/2014 10:10 am : link
Wasn't his leg broken in 3 places? I thought I saw initial reports that way,then read nothing. That may make a diference on the healing.
Nonetheless, if he fails(becomes Eli's worst nightmare) with a legitimate player like GS next to him, he could be a post June 1 next year.
I think he will come back a better player. In a year of immense garbage like '13 was, it's a new year and a fresh start;the 'playing up to my contract' pressure-excuse leaves him no choice but to just play his best,then whatever with the rest.
you guys are crazy for  
JOMO25 : 3/21/2014 10:18 am : link
thinking the contract dictates subsequent moves

You don't compromise Eli's health, the offense's success b/c you doled out a bad contract. You put the plan in place to fix the problem. That starts w Pugh, who is outstanding, moving to LT.

RT then becomes an easy fix. Morgan Moses, Jack Mehhort...in Rd 3. That doesn't mean Beatty can't earn his way back into the good graces, but at least you're protecting the offense's skill guys in the case that he does not rebound. I for one, do not think he will be a long term Giant. But no decision on that will occur before next summer.
If Pugh moveas to LT and struggles this year or gets ragdolled by  
WillieYoung : 3/21/2014 10:31 am : link
one of the best defensive ends in the league like Beatty did, people on this board will be advocating cutting him next March.
In certain situations a contract will clearly dictate the moves  
JonC : 3/21/2014 10:41 am : link
Look at WB's subsequent cap hits, it's rather obvious they're locked down with him for now.
agree completely about beatty  
area junc : 3/21/2014 10:41 am : link
the wild inconsistency this deep into his career is bad. he was as bad as it gets last year, a complete embarrassment. there were a number of games where he was non-competitive

guys in their 5th year just shouldn't play like that, ever
That said  
JonC : 3/21/2014 10:42 am : link
it doesn't mean they can't draft another tackle, it just means Beatty will be on the roster in some capacity until it's feasible to move on.
Beatty needs a chance to rebound before we start talking about  
Simms11 : 3/21/2014 10:43 am : link
getting rid of him. I think he knows where his issues lie and will work to get them fixed this year. Flaherty also has to take this as a special project too. He is critical to getting the line fixed this year. I also think Schwartz next to him will help immensley too. With that said, he does need to get stronger. I've seen him overpowered and pushed back by lighter DEs way too often. I have confidence he will rebound. He's shown that he can play the position and so I think he deserves the chance to try to rebound.

On another note - re. TEs - how do the Giants see Hynoski? Is he an H-back now? will he replace Pascoe as the 3rd TE? Could be a very interesting situation with him. Additionally, I think Robinson is ready to take that next step. This is probably a make or break year for him too. With that said, I don't think he's anything more than a #2 TE at best. The Giants will definitely be looking for a guy that could come in and be an asset in the passing game, as well as the running game. He's got to be capable of blocking. The Giants still want to run the ball (see TC's previous comments). If teh line is to get fixed, the TE position is a large part of it. Therefore, I don't see a 1st round TE drafted if Ebron is there for the taking. I think it will be someone either in the 2nd or 3rd that can catch and block.
RE: agree completely about beatty  
Giantology : 3/21/2014 10:59 am : link
In comment 11578483 area junc said:
Quote:
the wild inconsistency this deep into his career is bad. he was as bad as it gets last year, a complete embarrassment. there were a number of games where he was non-competitive

guys in their 5th year just shouldn't play like that, ever


Don't people say the same exact thing about Eli Manning? Players have bad/down years. It's part of the game.

You don't cut ties with a guy because of one rough season and a broken leg, especially after he earned his contract and played pretty damn well the 2 seasons prior. You give him a shot to prove he can return to a high level of play and figure out a plan B in case he doesn't.
Again, I'm not necessarily talking about getting rid of him  
JOMO25 : 3/21/2014 11:05 am : link
Certainly not in 2014 unless he doesn't heal in order to play.

But I am saying to move the better player, the tougher player, the more responsible player...Pugh to LT and to draft a Jack Mehhort type player, who will likely compete for RT and if Beatty surprises us and wins that job, Mewhort has the ability to provide depth at 4 OL positions.
In any audit, analysis or evaluation  
RetroJint : 3/21/2014 11:09 am : link
the same principle applies: the most recent history is the most important history. Racing Form, Probable Starting Pitchers in MLB-same deal. Beatty's most recent history is horrendous. We've mentioned this before, and it rankles with some people, but his previous OC called him "soft." Now with warm milk & cookies served him by McCoattails , he's supposed to be healed?
I doubt the metric involved that had Beatty ever playing at an elite level. Notwithstanding, the Giants will have to play the contract. Yes sometimes that happens. I would try him at guard. He moves well & can pick off targets on the fly. He should be able to pull & trap. I think having him play on the inside shoulder of Pugh will hope both players. Get a moose ROT to pair with Schwartz and play blast-out on that side. The staff is charged with making something good of Beatty. Failure is not an option.
Retro  
pjcas18 : 3/21/2014 11:12 am : link
Eli was the 30th rated QB in the league in 2013.

Since that was his latest season should the Giants replace him?

It's funny I didn't read one complaint about Beatty during or after the 2012 season.

The Giants base case scenario is Beatty plays adequately at LT, but I 100% agree there has to be a plan B in the event he doesn't.

Whether that's a draft pick at #12 or a Shawn Andrews type veteran I don't know, but having a plan B makes giving Beatty his job back less risky and creates less holes to fill for 2014.
base case  
pjcas18 : 3/21/2014 11:13 am : link
should be best case
the problem w the Eli analogy  
JOMO25 : 3/21/2014 11:19 am : link
is that a) Eli has a far bigger and better resume b) there are no viable alternatives at QB for 2014 c) though he was terrible, there were things that assisted in creating that performance (i.e. Beatty)

If I'm Reese, if Eli doesn't rebound, then its next March that I start thinking of the plan for the next QB.
True  
pjcas18 : 3/21/2014 11:27 am : link
and the other part of the Eli analogy is his contract is over the end of next year with limited dead money in 2015, so parting with him, if that's what Reese chooses to do, would be easier.

Even though I think it's unlikely and premature.
Beatty will be fine. Fix the interior of the line and suddenly  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 3/21/2014 11:42 am : link
you won't hearing about his confidence issues.

Beatty and Eli's seasons last year were a ripple effect from consistently starting the worst 3 interior OL in the NFL
In your analysis I would add  
Jay in Toronto : 3/21/2014 11:46 am : link
1. Let's see which Beatty sows up before we throw him under the bus

2. WRs usually take a bit of time (eg Toomer). Randle has the tools to be #2 -- let's see if the bulb turns on consistently in 2014.
RE: How did Beatty  
GmenDynasty : 3/21/2014 2:00 pm : link
In comment 11578233 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
succeed in 2011 (until being injured) and 2012 where was legitimately one of the better tackles in the league?

Just a question, I honestly don't know the answer.

It is in the Giants best interest to fix Beatty, not part with him, at least for the next couple years.


Giants dont give up on guys easily unless there is a strong reason to. BEATTY had a great prior year in 12 and pretty good in 11 before he got hurt.

They arent going throw him away or bench him with out giving him another opportunity if hes healthy.
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