This is from a Tony Pauline interview. Says teammates don't like him. No doubting his talent. Jerry Reese likes him, but not a Tom Coughlin type personality.
I'd pass on him as well. I live in the Mid Atlantic area, and have seen a lot of UNC games. Great talent as a receiver, but I question his blocking. And now a prima donna personality. He isn't a throw the remote type of pick, but I'd really like a "clean" player. That's why I'd pass on Lewan as well.
Anybody say he is a prima donna. These seems like one of the rumors that a team leaks hoping a play falls to them.
Most receiving TEs coming out of college aren't good blockers. Everything that I read has said he is a decent blocker that is willing to work at it. Shockey wasn't a good blocker coming out of college either and he turned into an absolute beast.
If Vernon Davis was worth the #6 pick and he was then Ebron is definitely worth the 12th pick. Vernon was more athletic coming out of college, but I don't think he had the hands, route running or football IQ that Ebron has.
Anybody say he is a prima donna. These seems like one of the rumors that a team leaks hoping a play falls to them.
Most receiving TEs coming out of college aren't good blockers. Everything that I read has said he is a decent blocker that is willing to work at it. Shockey wasn't a good blocker coming out of college either and he turned into an absolute beast.
If Vernon Davis was worth the #6 pick and he was then Ebron is definitely worth the 12th pick. Vernon was more athletic coming out of college, but I don't think he had the hands, route running or football IQ that Ebron has.
I hope you're right. As I said, he's not a throw the remote type pick. And he is only 21. There are no character flags. About six weeks to go.
given the need, the lack on interest in FA TEs and Ebron's talent. I'm not sure how much I like it, but if I had to bet on a guy at 12, it would be Ebron.
I can't see him going in the top 10. I think top 15 is pushing it for a guy who has questionable blocking and a questionable attitude according to reports. But maybe that's why the Giants haven't really gone after a TE in free agency. Maybe they really do love him and they know he'll be sitting there at 12.
Or maybe they like a handful of the TEs and don't mind grabbing one a round or two later.
He's not close to as fast as Davis IMO. Davis is a 4.4 guy - he's legit fast WR fast. Ebron is probably more like possession WR fast. Ebron is probably more fluid though.
They both bring a lot of weapons to the table-I personally think that both those options as well as some of the defensive possibilities are all excellent picks.
If all this ebron talk is in an attempt throw teams off their love for evans to prevent teams from leapfrogging the giants (philly?). It just doesnt make sense that they would choose a big target at TE with less measurables than a big target WR when there are more complete TEs later in the draft.
I mean thino about it: would you have drafted Plax or Shockey (prior to learning how to block) if u had to pick one? Plax dominated his side of the field and opened up Toomer's game. Shockey teams could scheme for.
we really don't know is what Eli prefers. Does he want a big WR outside like Evans...or the athletic TE like Ebron. What would help HIM out the most?
Is that type of personnel decision making left to a player?
Uhhhh, I think we DO. Plax had a far greater impact on the offense when both he and Shockey were here. Eli loves throwing the fade, outs, deep balls down the sidelines and skinny posts. Shockey was not seeing the ball nearly as much once plax got here. Look at the winning tds at the game in Philly and the super bowl... both little gestures to plax changing the route. He never had that with shockey.
Why would we compare two Giants to make a point about Â
What about Jimmy Graham vs Vincent Jackson? I think Graham clearly has more impact.
Check both their stats this past year and check their respective QBs. It's not as clear as you're trying to make it out to be. VJax is a friggin stud and more people would realize that if he had Drew Brees slinging it to him.
This really adds nothing to the Ebron discussion, I just think you saying Graham has more impact was off base.
So because many years ago in a different offense Eli Plax may have had more impact than Shockey means that Eli is more comfortable with a big time WR than a big time TE? I'm not sure that's a convincing argument.
I also think you have to factor in the fact that Randle is much better player and will likely in the future be a much better player than any TE on the Giants roster right now.
Nevertheless, I'm not sold on Evans or Ebron at 12.
he looks like one of those "go up and get it" kind of Tight ends. Wouldn't this benefit Eli more? Who does tend to throw inaccurate balls (more in the high range) to have a big bodied tight end in the middle of the field? For those that say you don't want Ebron, then who? Evans? linebacker? I understand you can draft a TE in the middle rounds but LOL isn't that supposed to be where Adrien Robinson is at right now? He did graduate from Cincinnati late or something and I remember correctly, had trouble adapting the Coughlin-Gilbride system right away. Even when he does see the field, he's off it right away. This whole TE project is annoying. What the hell do I know?
Plaxico was a thing of beauty. Sometimes he ran the wrong route and Eli took a few sacks but man that guy could just "go up and get it", just chuck it up there. Eli to Burress, just looked like two guys just playing ball in the backyard.
I have blinders, all I can see is OL,OL, OL. I think Lewan is the man,and he is the serendipity juxtaposition where BPA meets position of extreme need.
but I think he doesn't get by Detroit and/or Buffalo. Don't want Evans so if Lewan is gone , for me , it's Ebron or Donald but the fall off seems enormous.
. J.R. reportedly considered trading up to get Revis years ago. I hope he talks to Buffalo, but heck maybe the big tackle slips by and Gilbert AND Ebron go before him. Would be nice.
And a WR in the 2nd or 3rd. Ebron is considered the top TE by a wide margin. Meanwhile you can go and get a WR in the 2nd that would be a first rounder in most other years. The draft is stacked at WR this year and not so much at TE.
I think going and getting Ebron and Jordan Matthews, Davante Adams or Donte Moncrief is much better then getting Mike Evans & Jace Amaro or Austin Seferian-Jenkins.
We have absolutely nothing at TE. If you pass on Ebron there is no way to know if any of the next 2 or 3 TEs will be available when we pick. A lot better chance of a highly rated WR being there IMO.
There is a lot larger gap between Ebron & Amaro/ASJ then there is between Evans and the 3 WRs I named. I would be much more comfortable going into the season with Randle, Cruz & Jernigan as the top 3 WRs then I would be going into the season with Donnell and Robinson at TE.
Tackle after drafting Pugh and giving Beatty a pretty large contract. Yes he might miss the first couple games of the season, but you don't draft a guy for that reason. Just can't see the Giants giving up on Beatty so soon. When have we ever given up on a player 1 year after giving them a big contract? I can't think of any.
He might not be as fast at Davis, but his playing style is very similar. He is plenty fast enough to create mismatches against LBers and Safeties. Who wouldn't want a TE who could break off 40/50+ yard receptions? 71 yard catch and run TD - ( New Window )
Can develop to the guy we hope he can be? He has done absolutely nothing to show that. You can't go into the season on hopes. We know Cruz is great. Randle has shown a ton of potential and Jernigan started showing why we drafted him in the 3rd round. Robinson has shown absolutely nothing at all.
I like Evans also. I would not be mad if we drafted him at all. I just think TE is a far far bigger need then a WR. We have no idea what kind of TE our new OC wants. We could draft Ebron and go into the season with him as a pass catching TE who gets better at his blocking (Everything I read has said he is a decent blocker with the willingness to get better) and Donnell as the blocker. Similar to 2002 when we went into the season with Shockey and Dan Campbell or 2008 when we went into the season with Kevin Boss and Michael Matthews.
thinks Coughlin can mold and handle a Shockey type talent better then Fassel?
Doubt it... Shockey insults a legendary Giants coach, refuses rookie pranks and threatened teammate over it, gets stone faced drunk with Tara Reid, mouths off about coaching and drills and this is all during his first two seasons. Hell I would anticipate a scene like Hartman and Pyle. There was no saving Shockey. Lol the nut tried to attack his GM.
Seems like the Giants are flirting with both types of TE's these days...It started with Beckum and last year with Meyers...looking for that 'tweener TE/Pope getting canned...
Take Ebron. Beckum and Myers were both strictly receivers who were terrible at blocking. Ebron is a far better receiver then both of them who is a decent blocker with the size and strength to get much much better. We could finally get our receiving threat in the middle of the field that could become a good blocker. A lot of people on here want that very good receiver and blocker at TE. It is a hard thing to find and nowadays the NFL is moving away from that. Written and Gronkowski are the exceptions, but the upper echelon TEs are mostly receivers. Graham, Vernon Davis, Gates, Julius Thomas, Jordan Cameron.
His 40 time at the combine was 4.60. Anthony Barr's was 4.65. Clinton Dix, a safety was timed at 4.58. Ebron will have a successful career, but won't be a top nfl tight end. Even Aaron Donald a defensive tackle ran a 4.68. Ebron's receiving ability is good, but not great, especially considering that he doesn't like to block. I think Amaro will be a better te.
With the twelfth pick we want a gamebreaker. Ebron isn't that player.
He looks like a cocky arrogant dude, a little bit of a smart ass as well when it came to the answers he gave there. Personally I like guys like that but I can see why some guys will be turned off by things like that. I'm rooting for him to be the pick, after the idea of trading up for Watkins which is a personal fantasy of mine.
I'd pass on him as well. I live in the Mid Atlantic area, and have seen a lot of UNC games. Great talent as a receiver, but I question his blocking. And now a prima donna personality. He isn't a throw the remote type of pick, but I'd really like a "clean" player. That's why I'd pass on Lewan as well.
Sounds like another Shockey type...
Most receiving TEs coming out of college aren't good blockers. Everything that I read has said he is a decent blocker that is willing to work at it. Shockey wasn't a good blocker coming out of college either and he turned into an absolute beast.
If Vernon Davis was worth the #6 pick and he was then Ebron is definitely worth the 12th pick. Vernon was more athletic coming out of college, but I don't think he had the hands, route running or football IQ that Ebron has.
Most receiving TEs coming out of college aren't good blockers. Everything that I read has said he is a decent blocker that is willing to work at it. Shockey wasn't a good blocker coming out of college either and he turned into an absolute beast.
If Vernon Davis was worth the #6 pick and he was then Ebron is definitely worth the 12th pick. Vernon was more athletic coming out of college, but I don't think he had the hands, route running or football IQ that Ebron has.
I hope you're right. As I said, he's not a throw the remote type pick. And he is only 21. There are no character flags. About six weeks to go.
As for TC, he doesn't have a long time left as our HC. Reese and Ross should worry about hitting more in this draft since the last few have sucked.
F*ck Buffalo
As for TC, he doesn't have a long time left as our HC. Reese and Ross should worry about hitting more in this draft since the last few have sucked.
Take an 07 approach?
Or maybe they like a handful of the TEs and don't mind grabbing one a round or two later.
I mean thino about it: would you have drafted Plax or Shockey (prior to learning how to block) if u had to pick one? Plax dominated his side of the field and opened up Toomer's game. Shockey teams could scheme for.
Is that type of personnel decision making left to a player?
Quote:
we really don't know is what Eli prefers. Does he want a big WR outside like Evans...or the athletic TE like Ebron. What would help HIM out the most?
Is that type of personnel decision making left to a player?
Uhhhh, I think we DO. Plax had a far greater impact on the offense when both he and Shockey were here. Eli loves throwing the fade, outs, deep balls down the sidelines and skinny posts. Shockey was not seeing the ball nearly as much once plax got here. Look at the winning tds at the game in Philly and the super bowl... both little gestures to plax changing the route. He never had that with shockey.
What about Jimmy Graham vs Vincent Jackson? I think Graham clearly has more impact.
Are you really this much of a contrarian in real life or just fucking stupid?
Try arguing using reason instead of insults, if you're capable.
Please try and keep up... if youre capable.
I trust Reese and Co to find a TE later in the draft...
What about Jimmy Graham vs Vincent Jackson? I think Graham clearly has more impact.
Check both their stats this past year and check their respective QBs. It's not as clear as you're trying to make it out to be. VJax is a friggin stud and more people would realize that if he had Drew Brees slinging it to him.
This really adds nothing to the Ebron discussion, I just think you saying Graham has more impact was off base.
Thanks for the thread, though.
Gotta take extreme measures to get some players
THEN, you draft a traditional tight end.
Please try and keep up... if youre capable.
So because many years ago in a different offense Eli Plax may have had more impact than Shockey means that Eli is more comfortable with a big time WR than a big time TE? I'm not sure that's a convincing argument.
I also think you have to factor in the fact that Randle is much better player and will likely in the future be a much better player than any TE on the Giants roster right now.
Nevertheless, I'm not sold on Evans or Ebron at 12.
link - ( New Window )
Plaxico was a thing of beauty. Sometimes he ran the wrong route and Eli took a few sacks but man that guy could just "go up and get it", just chuck it up there. Eli to Burress, just looked like two guys just playing ball in the backyard.
If they don't get Eli right, nothing else matters.
It's why they fired half of the coaches and hired three guys with QB coaching experience.
Eli isn't going to pick a draft pick but you had better believe what they think will help him the most will be a big factor on who they select.
but I think he doesn't get by Detroit and/or Buffalo. Don't want Evans so if Lewan is gone , for me , it's Ebron or Donald but the fall off seems enormous.
. J.R. reportedly considered trading up to get Revis years ago. I hope he talks to Buffalo, but heck maybe the big tackle slips by and Gilbert AND Ebron go before him. Would be nice.
I think going and getting Ebron and Jordan Matthews, Davante Adams or Donte Moncrief is much better then getting Mike Evans & Jace Amaro or Austin Seferian-Jenkins.
We have absolutely nothing at TE. If you pass on Ebron there is no way to know if any of the next 2 or 3 TEs will be available when we pick. A lot better chance of a highly rated WR being there IMO.
There is a lot larger gap between Ebron & Amaro/ASJ then there is between Evans and the 3 WRs I named. I would be much more comfortable going into the season with Randle, Cruz & Jernigan as the top 3 WRs then I would be going into the season with Donnell and Robinson at TE.
But if you are drafting Ebron at 1 you are drafting him for his AA and hands...
The same thing could be said for taking an Evans at 1...
The Giants want blocking TE's...
Maybe we see AR mature to be the player we all hope he can be...
71 yard catch and run TD - ( New Window )
I like Evans also. I would not be mad if we drafted him at all. I just think TE is a far far bigger need then a WR. We have no idea what kind of TE our new OC wants. We could draft Ebron and go into the season with him as a pass catching TE who gets better at his blocking (Everything I read has said he is a decent blocker with the willingness to get better) and Donnell as the blocker. Similar to 2002 when we went into the season with Shockey and Dan Campbell or 2008 when we went into the season with Kevin Boss and Michael Matthews.
Doubt it... Shockey insults a legendary Giants coach, refuses rookie pranks and threatened teammate over it, gets stone faced drunk with Tara Reid, mouths off about coaching and drills and this is all during his first two seasons. Hell I would anticipate a scene like Hartman and Pyle. There was no saving Shockey. Lol the nut tried to attack his GM.
Seems like the Giants are flirting with both types of TE's these days...It started with Beckum and last year with Meyers...looking for that 'tweener TE/Pope getting canned...
Cant seem to make up their mind...
He will catch the back shoulder throws, the fades, the posts, and the jump balls.
Niklas or C.J. Fiedo.. in the 3rd/4th rounds provide much better value for the Giants who like the big TEs who can block.
Something like...
Evans
DT
G/C
C.J. Fiedo..
DE
RB
With the twelfth pick we want a gamebreaker. Ebron isn't that player.
Ebron is not part of that equation.
Taylor Lewan is.
ND picks to Giants 1 and 2, could be