I found this very interesting. With a glaring need at TE we most definitely should take him with our first pick, especially after this comparision to one of the best TE's. He would be a top target for Eli for the rest of his career and also for Eli's replacement. A TE would be great to have ease the transition due to the fact a TE is a QB's best friend. In the end, i think Ebron is a great value at 12 and fills a need that hasn't been where we need it to be since Shockey left.
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Think what Shockey did for us tho? He was a good TE for a number of years. Yet i also think that Ebron isn't like Shockey. He isn't whining about getting the ball, he is just a little cocky imo(illegal speed and all). Unlike Shockey he wants to be a all-around TE with solid blocking ability. Now he may be saying that because thats what Execs want to hear but who knows.
The complete TE preference could be a Gilbride thing. Remember that our new OC was a coach for a team with Finley, who is not a complete TE.
There is no denying Ebron's talent; I just can't see the Giants taking him.
Anyway, we're on the same page-ish and I don't want to rehash this age old debate.
Given that there are a handful of needs each year, this is likely to occur. There have often been more pressing areas than the position we've drafted.
I think the bottom line is that he's gone by #12, but that if he isn't, he'll be the pick. My own take is that I would pass, but would nonetheless be fine with the pick. It's certainly not a remote thrower. Neither is Evans or Donald. Lewan and Martin are the only two likely players I don't want. It's a deep OL draft, and Lewan has some lingering character concerns.
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Always of course claiming bpa, but the frequency with which it occurs suggests otherwise.
Given that there are a handful of needs each year, this is likely to occur. There have often been more pressing areas than the position we've drafted.
Now you gone done it. I'm talking first round only, BTW.
- Ross was after the Giants CB debacle the previous year
- Phillips was after the CC Brown fiasco
- Nicks was after the Plax incident
- JPP was more BPA
- Prince was also more BPA
- Wilson was drafted after Jacobs left and Bradshaw had been injured again and had a down year. RB was one of it not the biggest needs
- Pugh was drafted when OL was clearly the biggest need
So I would say 5/7 of Reese's first round picks have been at a position that was arguably the Giants biggest need.
We need to draft a high value and impact pick and there's lots of guys on the DL and OL who fit the profile.
Plus most of those on BBI who can't seem to spell our own guys names right would continually post and refer to him as Enron. Not sure we want to see that.
He is the best player at his position and it happens to be our biggest need. Everything fits perfect for us to take him.
I tend to think WR, even though getting elite production from a TE is rarer.
So I think there's a third factor to account in addition to need and player ability - positional value.
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In comment 11580879 chris r said:
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Always of course claiming bpa, but the frequency with which it occurs suggests otherwise.
Given that there are a handful of needs each year, this is likely to occur. There have often been more pressing areas than the position we've drafted.
Now you gone done it. I'm talking first round only, BTW.
- Ross was after the Giants CB debacle the previous year
- Phillips was after the CC Brown fiasco
- Nicks was after the Plax incident
- JPP was more BPA
- Prince was also more BPA
- Wilson was drafted after Jacobs left and Bradshaw had been injured again and had a down year. RB was one of it not the biggest needs
- Pugh was drafted when OL was clearly the biggest need
So I would say 5/7 of Reese's first round picks have been at a position that was arguably the Giants biggest need.
Nicks and Phillips could both be considered BPA at the time as well. Also, Phillips was drafted in 2008 - the CC Brown debacle occurred in 2009 (after which we signed Rolle). I'd also argue that OL was the biggest need in 2012, not RB.
Yeah, that makes sense and I think Reese has said something to that effect. They obviously loved JPPs upside and Prince was nearly unanimously rated higher than where he was drafted, so you could imagine those two being in a player tier above players at positions of greater need.
I do not believe that Winslow came near reaching his potential.
It takes a lot more than just physical ability to become great. You have to want it and be willing to be willing to pay the price.
Ebron has ability but also has questionsble work ethics and a reputation as a me first player.
He can make the great play but will he block and do the dirty work ?
I'm pretty certain JR goes by "tiers". And if memory serves correct, there have been reports by beat writers that there was one OL a "tier" above David Wilson but they still went with Wilson. Also, Eric from BBI knowing who we were going for before the draft even started suggests that they both loved Wilson and thinks we really needed a RB.
Funny because I didn't see that that often from watching him
although im curious to see if someone like watkins, mack,matthews, robinson makes it to around pick 8 would they trade up to snag one if they slip
AGF - I think some insiders here refuted that there was an OL ranked above Wilson. Could be wrong.
Funny because I didn't see that that often from watching him
I don't know what tape you've been watching - but I certainly saw that in his highlight tapes. Very physical - goes up for the ball in traffic and takes hits and comes down with it, and gets up and walks off. Also an arm tackle is not going to bring this guy down. He also makes a lot of one hand catches.
I have games notes from THREE different games where Ebron clearly slowed up over the middle and/or did not get after it. That is a poor job by Lande.
With defenses in the NFL the way they are, TE are open all the time if you choose to release them in the pattern. There are plenty of less athletic TE who cause problems. Witten has been doing it forever. Heath Miller has as well. Owen Daniels, Scott Chandler, Pettigrew and Gresham are effective and non are top end athletically.
DO you really need to use the 12th pick on a TE in todays NFL
We don't really know about the new OC
We do know that the entire JInt organization wants to revamp the run game
JR has invested some $ in bringing in the Raider RBI and a starting OG in Schwartz and C in Walton
They need to finish what they started and draft a quality OT and run blocking TE who can be a third receiving option in the pass game IMO
The D is close to dominant now that the secondary is shored up
A couple of more big bodies on D will allow the coaching staff to play ball control and field position now that they have actually procured some quality returners
All of this means that Eli won't have to be such a risk taker in the pass game and will therefore likely decrease his turnovers
The D is close to dominant now that the secondary is shored up
I think this is a stretch. We have a very average at best front 7 right now on paper.
One plus LBer.
Jenkins and JPP as the only proven good players on the DL with JPP being a big question mark.
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I think that if two players are in the same tier, we will weigh need - but if a player is in a tier to himself according to our scouts, we'll pick him. Kiwanuka is an example of that. I don't think draft boards are necessarily numbered, but I could be wrong.
I'm pretty certain JR goes by "tiers". And if memory serves correct, there have been reports by beat writers that there was one OL a "tier" above David Wilson but they still went with Wilson. Also, Eric from BBI knowing who we were going for before the draft even started suggests that they both loved Wilson and thinks we really needed a RB.
That would be Cordy Glenn, but the Giants apparently had concerns about his weight.
There is no denying Ebron's talent; I just can't see the Giants taking him.
He's not a physical player to say the least,but I'm not surprised Reese likes him.
1996 Passing - 1st rushing - 17th
1997 Passing - 4th rushing - 18th
1998 Passing - 20th rushing - 5th
1999 Passing - 12th rushing - 2nd
2000 Passing - 9th rushing - 10th
2001 Passing - 18th rushing - 26th
2002 Passing - 28th rushing - 10th
2003 Passing - 15th rushing - 8th
When you examine the attempts to yards, they had a down the field passing game. Go look and see what numbers Smith & McCardell put up under Coughlin
What I'm saying is that Ebron can be the next Aaron Hernandez (before Aaron went gangsta and started shooting people). But as a traditional high quality tight end (can bot catch & block worthy of a near top 10 pick), I don't think he qualifies.
IF the Giants could 1st fix their O-line problems, then draft TWO tight ends (Grongowski & Hernandez look-alikes), then yes why not.
Donald Should be the Pick IMO .
Nothing disrupts an offense more than pressure up
the Middle . As Great as Ebron May end up Being .
Look at guys like Ballard and Boss .
Pretty sure we won two Super Bowls with them .
If a Guy Like Lewan is there it could be a toss up .
We could get a Decent TE in the 3rd and maybe go
WR Center or Guard .in the 2nd round .
Donald reminds me a bit of John Mendenhall
but Quicker .
And it sounds like you're trying to do a little reverse psychology or something to psyche yourself up into thinking you'll be stuck seeing the Giants take a player you don't want.
And it sounds like you're trying to do a little reverse psychology or something to psyche yourself up into thinking you'll be stuck seeing the Giants take a player you don't want.
Value in the top 8 picks is way too high to go Ebron. Only teams that could go Ebron before us are Buffalo and Det. But they also have other high need areas. Chances are decent he falls to us.
1st.. beginning
Of 2nd. I see Reese
Taking best wr
Or d/o line at 1.
WE trade and move
Up for ebron in 2nd.
There is no denying Ebron's talent; I just can't see the Giants taking him.
If thats the case, TC now running the Off, we're in BIG trouble
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as TC is more run-oriented than Gilbride. I think the Giants are presently committing to the running game as a means towards opening up the passing game.
There is no denying Ebron's talent; I just can't see the Giants taking him.
Agree with this analysis. We are beefing up the Ol with bigger bodies and just signed Jennings, a big RB who runs between the guards and tackles. TC has always preferred big backs and a strong running game. Ebron is a finesse TE who wants to be a WR. Do not see it as a fit with value and need at #12.
So if the opposing Def brings a safety in the box to stop the run, who does Eli throw a pass to? Actually, unless the def fears the pass, they caqn easily shut down the run game.
And it sounds like you're trying to do a little reverse psychology or something to psyche yourself up into thinking you'll be stuck seeing the Giants take a player you don't want.
No matter what, whoever they pick at #12 needs to play right away. It's a premium pick, in my view, because it's such a strong draft. Getting Martin is fine, but he would absolutely need to play otherwise they're just delaying the inevitable. Evans or Ebron I would prefer the most, but I am getting tired of seeing these TE posts. They need receivers, plain and simple.