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Eric Ebron, EX-NFL Scout's Take on him

Big Blue 5 : 3/22/2014 3:11 pm
I found this very interesting. With a glaring need at TE we most definitely should take him with our first pick, especially after this comparision to one of the best TE's. He would be a top target for Eli for the rest of his career and also for Eli's replacement. A TE would be great to have ease the transition due to the fact a TE is a QB's best friend. In the end, i think Ebron is a great value at 12 and fills a need that hasn't been where we need it to be since Shockey left.
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which  
Phil in LA : 3/22/2014 3:45 pm : link
OT?
RE: BB5  
Big Blue 5 : 3/22/2014 3:45 pm : link
In comment 11580901 Phil from WNY said:
Quote:
The last time the Giants took a prima donna TE at that level, it was Shockey who became a complete player because he was tenacious and competitive. The problem with Shockey was that he wanted to be more of a pass catcher while the Giants wanted both. Would Ebron have the same issues as Shockey? Would the Giants want to deal with those issues? My guess is no.


Think what Shockey did for us tho? He was a good TE for a number of years. Yet i also think that Ebron isn't like Shockey. He isn't whining about getting the ball, he is just a little cocky imo(illegal speed and all). Unlike Shockey he wants to be a all-around TE with solid blocking ability. Now he may be saying that because thats what Execs want to hear but who knows.
RE: Does he have a complete skill set?  
chris r : 3/22/2014 3:50 pm : link
In comment 11580889 Phil from WNY said:
Quote:
Ebron is undoubtedly a top talent but is he a complete TE? I just don't see the Giants taking him. Instead, I expect them to grab a more complete TE such as Troy Niklas - less talented but a better and more willing blocker.


The complete TE preference could be a Gilbride thing. Remember that our new OC was a coach for a team with Finley, who is not a complete TE.
value/grade/need  
JonC : 3/22/2014 3:51 pm : link
.
Would love Ebron.  
RDJR : 3/22/2014 3:55 pm : link
If we go OL at 12 I'm throwing the remote.
Actually, I think it's a TC thing  
Phil from WNY : 3/22/2014 3:56 pm : link
as TC is more run-oriented than Gilbride. I think the Giants are presently committing to the running game as a means towards opening up the passing game.

There is no denying Ebron's talent; I just can't see the Giants taking him.
Jon  
chris r : 3/22/2014 3:57 pm : link
I don't think the drastically reach for need, but I think its fair to infer that they do assign need substantial weight.

Anyway, we're on the same page-ish and I don't want to rehash this age old debate.
RE: Giants have drafted need in the first round a lot  
BrettNYG10 : 3/22/2014 3:58 pm : link
In comment 11580879 chris r said:
Quote:
Always of course claiming bpa, but the frequency with which it occurs suggests otherwise.


Given that there are a handful of needs each year, this is likely to occur. There have often been more pressing areas than the position we've drafted.
It would be one thing if Ebron's a terrible blocker. If he's  
Ash : 3/22/2014 3:58 pm : link
a passable one with the potential to become an above average one and you think he can be a 900-1000 yard 8 TD guy, you take him in a heartbeat.
Sounds  
AcidTest : 3/22/2014 4:00 pm : link
like he could well be gone by #12. Pat was saying that she thinks it's unlikely the Giants take Ebron because they want a better blocker. There are also rumors about him being a prima donna, but that may just be the kind of hyper nitpicking that goes on about players, especially those projected in the first round. She thinks Evans is more likely. But then you have Reese and Ross both going to see Ebron, and us having a huge need at that position. There is also his athleticism, and the consensus that he is the best TE in the draft.

I think the bottom line is that he's gone by #12, but that if he isn't, he'll be the pick. My own take is that I would pass, but would nonetheless be fine with the pick. It's certainly not a remote thrower. Neither is Evans or Donald. Lewan and Martin are the only two likely players I don't want. It's a deep OL draft, and Lewan has some lingering character concerns.
From the tape I've watched  
jeff57 : 3/22/2014 4:03 pm : link
he drops and short arms too many passes over the middle. I don't get the love for him.
RE: RE: Giants have drafted need in the first round a lot  
chris r : 3/22/2014 4:04 pm : link
In comment 11580925 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 11580879 chris r said:


Quote:


Always of course claiming bpa, but the frequency with which it occurs suggests otherwise.



Given that there are a handful of needs each year, this is likely to occur. There have often been more pressing areas than the position we've drafted.


Now you gone done it. I'm talking first round only, BTW.

- Ross was after the Giants CB debacle the previous year
- Phillips was after the CC Brown fiasco
- Nicks was after the Plax incident
- JPP was more BPA
- Prince was also more BPA
- Wilson was drafted after Jacobs left and Bradshaw had been injured again and had a down year. RB was one of it not the biggest needs
- Pugh was drafted when OL was clearly the biggest need

So I would say 5/7 of Reese's first round picks have been at a position that was arguably the Giants biggest need.

Ebron  
Sammo284 : 3/22/2014 4:09 pm : link
Would be a horrible pick at 12. There's lots of great value at TE throughout the draft. Ebron is not a complete TE and doesn't even possess the kind of elite attributes for things he does well which are not many.

We need to draft a high value and impact pick and there's lots of guys on the DL and OL who fit the profile.

Plus most of those on BBI who can't seem to spell our own guys names right would continually post and refer to him as Enron. Not sure we want to see that.
I think he is very very good  
Big Rick in FL : 3/22/2014 4:11 pm : link
And the guy I want most with the 12th pick, but I personally can't see him being better then Graham. Obviously other people think differently. Even if he is anywhere near the player that Graham is then he is worth the 12th pick without a doubt.

He is the best player at his position and it happens to be our biggest need. Everything fits perfect for us to take him.
an interesting point was raised on another thread about Ebron  
chris r : 3/22/2014 4:14 pm : link
is an elite TE or an elite WR more valuable?

I tend to think WR, even though getting elite production from a TE is rarer.

So I think there's a third factor to account in addition to need and player ability - positional value.
RE: RE: RE: Giants have drafted need in the first round a lot  
BrettNYG10 : 3/22/2014 4:15 pm : link
In comment 11580932 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 11580925 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In comment 11580879 chris r said:


Quote:


Always of course claiming bpa, but the frequency with which it occurs suggests otherwise.



Given that there are a handful of needs each year, this is likely to occur. There have often been more pressing areas than the position we've drafted.



Now you gone done it. I'm talking first round only, BTW.

- Ross was after the Giants CB debacle the previous year
- Phillips was after the CC Brown fiasco
- Nicks was after the Plax incident
- JPP was more BPA
- Prince was also more BPA
- Wilson was drafted after Jacobs left and Bradshaw had been injured again and had a down year. RB was one of it not the biggest needs
- Pugh was drafted when OL was clearly the biggest need

So I would say 5/7 of Reese's first round picks have been at a position that was arguably the Giants biggest need.


Nicks and Phillips could both be considered BPA at the time as well. Also, Phillips was drafted in 2008 - the CC Brown debacle occurred in 2009 (after which we signed Rolle). I'd also argue that OL was the biggest need in 2012, not RB.
chris, I agree with your 5/7...  
Klaatu : 3/22/2014 4:17 pm : link
But the C.C. Brown fiasco was in 2009, in part because of the injury to KP, who was drafted in 2008. We lost Gibril Wilson to free agency (Oakland...who else?) that year.
Questionable Blocker  
Ed A. : 3/22/2014 4:18 pm : link
Don't think the Giants would take him at 12. You want to talk need, look at the present DL roster. Donald is the pick IMHO. You can get TE talent in round 2 or 3.
shit, you're right about CC Brown  
chris r : 3/22/2014 4:19 pm : link
I think Phillips and Nicks were among the BPA in those years. Also, I think the Giants have been very slow to recognize the decline/value of the OL, so while arguably should have been the biggest need in 2012, I'm not sure it was.

Fair point.  
BrettNYG10 : 3/22/2014 4:22 pm : link
I think that if two players are in the same tier, we will weigh need - but if a player is in a tier to himself according to our scouts, we'll pick him. Kiwanuka is an example of that. I don't think draft boards are necessarily numbered, but I could be wrong.
RE: Fair point.  
chris r : 3/22/2014 4:25 pm : link
In comment 11580950 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I think that if two players are in the same tier, we will weigh need - but if a player is in a tier to himself according to our scouts, we'll pick him. Kiwanuka is an example of that. I don't think draft boards are necessarily numbered, but I could be wrong.


Yeah, that makes sense and I think Reese has said something to that effect. They obviously loved JPPs upside and Prince was nearly unanimously rated higher than where he was drafted, so you could imagine those two being in a player tier above players at positions of greater need.
This is concerning  
Archer : 3/22/2014 4:27 pm : link
Quote:
"He is the best tight-end prospect I have evaluated since Kellen Winslow Jr.," Lande said


I do not believe that Winslow came near reaching his potential.

It takes a lot more than just physical ability to become great. You have to want it and be willing to be willing to pay the price.
Ebron has ability but also has questionsble work ethics and a reputation as a me first player.

He can make the great play but will he block and do the dirty work ?
RE: Fair point.  
AnotherGiantsFan : 3/22/2014 4:27 pm : link
In comment 11580950 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I think that if two players are in the same tier, we will weigh need - but if a player is in a tier to himself according to our scouts, we'll pick him. Kiwanuka is an example of that. I don't think draft boards are necessarily numbered, but I could be wrong.


I'm pretty certain JR goes by "tiers". And if memory serves correct, there have been reports by beat writers that there was one OL a "tier" above David Wilson but they still went with Wilson. Also, Eric from BBI knowing who we were going for before the draft even started suggests that they both loved Wilson and thinks we really needed a RB.
.  
Anakim : 3/22/2014 4:29 pm : link
"There are many athletic tight ends playing college football, but few show the courage and fearlessness to catch passes in traffic," he said.


Funny because I didn't see that that often from watching him
I would be more comfortable taking Ebron . . . .  
TC : 3/22/2014 4:47 pm : link
in a trade down. I just think there will likely be better players there at 12. Still, if the Giants thought highly enough to take him at 12, I wouldn't be upset.
Giants coaches and staff know best  
NewYorkGiants : 3/22/2014 4:56 pm : link
so if they are take him at 12 im all on board

although im curious to see if someone like watkins, mack,matthews, robinson makes it to around pick 8 would they trade up to snag one if they slip
I think there is a good shot  
Sy'56 : 3/22/2014 5:03 pm : link
Reese ends up going after Ebron. He has been trying to get that athlete-type at the position for awhile now. He really thought they had it in Beckum a few years back. I would say there is as good a shot of him being the selection as any player.
Chris,  
BrettNYG10 : 3/22/2014 5:04 pm : link
I think we're basically in agreement then. I've viewed it as BPA with contingencies - meaning that if there isn't a discernible BPA, we will factor in current and future needs.

AGF - I think some insiders here refuted that there was an OL ranked above Wilson. Could be wrong.
Russ Lande wrote that piece  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/22/2014 5:09 pm : link
He's pretty good - this is the part he wrote about Ebron that excites me on tape:

Quote:
"There are many athletic tight ends playing college football, but few show the courage and fearlessness to catch passes in traffic," he said. "It is interesting that for a player who doesn't always maintain concentration on the field, (Ebron) does consistently catch passes in traffic, take hard hits after the catch and hold onto the ball."
RE: .  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/22/2014 5:14 pm : link
In comment 11580960 Anakim said:
Quote:
"There are many athletic tight ends playing college football, but few show the courage and fearlessness to catch passes in traffic," he said.


Funny because I didn't see that that often from watching him


I don't know what tape you've been watching - but I certainly saw that in his highlight tapes. Very physical - goes up for the ball in traffic and takes hits and comes down with it, and gets up and walks off. Also an arm tackle is not going to bring this guy down. He also makes a lot of one hand catches.
Ummm?  
Sy'56 : 3/22/2014 5:14 pm : link
Fearlessnes over the middle?

I have games notes from THREE different games where Ebron clearly slowed up over the middle and/or did not get after it. That is a poor job by Lande.
BTW  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/22/2014 5:16 pm : link
for those of you talking about BPA - Remember - even Reese says that when they pick they use a combination of BPA and area of need
Ebron Blocking  
stretch234 : 3/22/2014 5:26 pm : link
I keep reading that his blocking will improve because he is willing. Myers was willing to block and he was not good at it.

With defenses in the NFL the way they are, TE are open all the time if you choose to release them in the pattern. There are plenty of less athletic TE who cause problems. Witten has been doing it forever. Heath Miller has as well. Owen Daniels, Scott Chandler, Pettigrew and Gresham are effective and non are top end athletically.

DO you really need to use the 12th pick on a TE in todays NFL
We know KG did not put a high value  
ChicagoMarty : 3/22/2014 5:43 pm : link
On TE
We don't really know about the new OC

We do know that the entire JInt organization wants to revamp the run game

JR has invested some $ in bringing in the Raider RBI and a starting OG in Schwartz and C in Walton

They need to finish what they started and draft a quality OT and run blocking TE who can be a third receiving option in the pass game IMO

The D is close to dominant now that the secondary is shored up

A couple of more big bodies on D will allow the coaching staff to play ball control and field position now that they have actually procured some quality returners

All of this means that Eli won't have to be such a risk taker in the pass game and will therefore likely decrease his turnovers
RE: We know KG did not put a high value  
chris r : 3/22/2014 5:47 pm : link
In comment 11581043 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:


The D is close to dominant now that the secondary is shored up



I think this is a stretch. We have a very average at best front 7 right now on paper.

One plus LBer.

Jenkins and JPP as the only proven good players on the DL with JPP being a big question mark.
I agree,  
AnishPatel : 3/22/2014 5:57 pm : link
I wouldn't call our defense dominant by any stretch. It has potential for now, but we need to add to the offense so that they can get back to being a top 10 unit.
RE: RE: Fair point.  
AcidTest : 3/22/2014 6:05 pm : link
In comment 11580959 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 11580950 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


I think that if two players are in the same tier, we will weigh need - but if a player is in a tier to himself according to our scouts, we'll pick him. Kiwanuka is an example of that. I don't think draft boards are necessarily numbered, but I could be wrong.



I'm pretty certain JR goes by "tiers". And if memory serves correct, there have been reports by beat writers that there was one OL a "tier" above David Wilson but they still went with Wilson. Also, Eric from BBI knowing who we were going for before the draft even started suggests that they both loved Wilson and thinks we really needed a RB.


That would be Cordy Glenn, but the Giants apparently had concerns about his weight.
RE: Actually, I think it's a TC thing  
TMS : 3/22/2014 6:43 pm : link
In comment 11580920 Phil from WNY said:
Quote:
as TC is more run-oriented than Gilbride. I think the Giants are presently committing to the running game as a means towards opening up the passing game.

There is no denying Ebron's talent; I just can't see the Giants taking him.
Agree with this analysis. We are beefing up the Ol with bigger bodies and just signed Jennings, a big RB who runs between the guards and tackles. TC has always preferred big backs and a strong running game. Ebron is a finesse TE who wants to be a WR. Do not see it as a fit with value and need at #12.
Ebron  
ghost718 : 3/22/2014 6:44 pm : link
All you have to is watch the video,North Carolina vs Duke.It's right there on Youtube,at about 5:23 he's on special teams and just lets the guy go right by him.

He's not a physical player to say the least,but I'm not surprised Reese likes him.
Only problem with trading down to get him  
#10* : 3/22/2014 6:45 pm : link
is other teams already know how we feel about him so they will almost certainly jump ahead. We would have to be hot on another player just as much who would be there.
Coughlin  
stretch234 : 3/22/2014 7:40 pm : link
Go look back at Jacksonville with their numbers

1996 Passing - 1st rushing - 17th
1997 Passing - 4th rushing - 18th
1998 Passing - 20th rushing - 5th
1999 Passing - 12th rushing - 2nd
2000 Passing - 9th rushing - 10th
2001 Passing - 18th rushing - 26th
2002 Passing - 28th rushing - 10th
2003 Passing - 15th rushing - 8th

When you examine the attempts to yards, they had a down the field passing game. Go look and see what numbers Smith & McCardell put up under Coughlin
I think Ebron would be a terrific pick, if ….  
Manny in CA : 3/22/2014 10:34 pm : link
The Giants are willing to modify their offense to a New England Patriots kind of offense - unstoppable intermediate passing attack, with a strong running game.

What I'm saying is that Ebron can be the next Aaron Hernandez (before Aaron went gangsta and started shooting people). But as a traditional high quality tight end (can bot catch & block worthy of a near top 10 pick), I don't think he qualifies.

IF the Giants could 1st fix their O-line problems, then draft TWO tight ends (Grongowski & Hernandez look-alikes), then yes why not.
TE is a Need  
BBurns : 3/22/2014 11:04 pm : link
I just Rather get Younger and Stronger in the Trenches .
Donald Should be the Pick IMO .
Nothing disrupts an offense more than pressure up
the Middle . As Great as Ebron May end up Being .
Look at guys like Ballard and Boss .
Pretty sure we won two Super Bowls with them .
If a Guy Like Lewan is there it could be a toss up .
We could get a Decent TE in the 3rd and maybe go
WR Center or Guard .in the 2nd round .
Donald reminds me a bit of John Mendenhall
but Quicker .
Ebron won't be there at 12  
bigblueheadache : 3/23/2014 5:28 am : link
As much as I like Ebron and have advocated for the Giants taking him (runs like a wide receiver and can block better than most think), he won't be there. I'm 90% sure the pick is Zack Martin.
Why would he not be there?  
illmatic : 3/23/2014 6:12 am : link
How many teams are rushing to blow a top 10ish pick on a TE? A TE who is an average blocker. We're too caught up in the whole Vernon Davis/Jimmy Graham/Gronkowski thing. Everyone wants to latch onto the next one. I'd bet big money Ebron won't be better than any of those three guys at their peak, though.

And it sounds like you're trying to do a little reverse psychology or something to psyche yourself up into thinking you'll be stuck seeing the Giants take a player you don't want.
RE: Why would he not be there?  
GmenDynasty : 3/23/2014 6:34 am : link
In comment 11581737 illmatic said:
Quote:
How many teams are rushing to blow a top 10ish pick on a TE? A TE who is an average blocker. We're too caught up in the whole Vernon Davis/Jimmy Graham/Gronkowski thing. Everyone wants to latch onto the next one. I'd bet big money Ebron won't be better than any of those three guys at their peak, though.

And it sounds like you're trying to do a little reverse psychology or something to psyche yourself up into thinking you'll be stuck seeing the Giants take a player you don't want.


Value in the top 8 picks is way too high to go Ebron. Only teams that could go Ebron before us are Buffalo and Det. But they also have other high need areas. Chances are decent he falls to us.
most scouts say  
SBlue46 : 3/23/2014 12:30 pm : link
Ebron is Going end of
1st.. beginning
Of 2nd. I see Reese
Taking best wr
Or d/o line at 1.
WE trade and move
Up for ebron in 2nd.
RE: Actually, I think it's a TC thing  
dcable : 3/23/2014 12:39 pm : link
In comment 11580920 Phil from WNY said:
Quote:
as TC is more run-oriented than Gilbride. I think the Giants are presently committing to the running game as a means towards opening up the passing game.

There is no denying Ebron's talent; I just can't see the Giants taking him.


If thats the case, TC now running the Off, we're in BIG trouble
RE: RE: Actually, I think it's a TC thing  
dcable : 3/23/2014 12:44 pm : link
In comment 11581139 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 11580920 Phil from WNY said:


Quote:


as TC is more run-oriented than Gilbride. I think the Giants are presently committing to the running game as a means towards opening up the passing game.

There is no denying Ebron's talent; I just can't see the Giants taking him.

Agree with this analysis. We are beefing up the Ol with bigger bodies and just signed Jennings, a big RB who runs between the guards and tackles. TC has always preferred big backs and a strong running game. Ebron is a finesse TE who wants to be a WR. Do not see it as a fit with value and need at #12.


So if the opposing Def brings a safety in the box to stop the run, who does Eli throw a pass to? Actually, unless the def fears the pass, they caqn easily shut down the run game.
RE: Why would he not be there?  
Toth029 : 3/23/2014 4:02 pm : link
In comment 11581737 illmatic said:
Quote:
How many teams are rushing to blow a top 10ish pick on a TE? A TE who is an average blocker. We're too caught up in the whole Vernon Davis/Jimmy Graham/Gronkowski thing. Everyone wants to latch onto the next one. I'd bet big money Ebron won't be better than any of those three guys at their peak, though.

And it sounds like you're trying to do a little reverse psychology or something to psyche yourself up into thinking you'll be stuck seeing the Giants take a player you don't want.
Why label him "just a TE" and act like it's bad? Davis, Gronk, and Graham are great players. Graham especially CANNOT block, nor tries, and nobody tries playing it off like anybody wants him. If Ebron is better at receiving than blocking, that's fine. Do you know who is on the team at TE? Do you know the last sheer athlete the Giants have had at TE? Do you realize how small the current Giant receivers are?

No matter what, whoever they pick at #12 needs to play right away. It's a premium pick, in my view, because it's such a strong draft. Getting Martin is fine, but he would absolutely need to play otherwise they're just delaying the inevitable. Evans or Ebron I would prefer the most, but I am getting tired of seeing these TE posts. They need receivers, plain and simple.
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