Eric Ebron, EX-NFL Scout's Take on him

I cant see JR taking a Te at 12. Reese has shown a history of not putting a high value on TE's by always signing a cheap one and usually getting good production from them. Meyers is the first tight end that didn't have quality production for the giants during the Reese era ,but at the same time nobody had quality production for the Giants last year. That is why i believe JR and the Giants will go with the same philosophy on TE's they had in the past, which is a cheap FA or later round pick who provides quality value production.

If teams were run in reverse (as many fans would prefer) you'd have the Oakland Raiders.

Always of course claiming bpa, but the frequency with which it occurs suggests otherwise.

that has been the traditional take but the GMEN seem to be breaking some norms with the new offense and bad showing last year. I think a TE like Ebron would have made a world of difference last year. I would love to grab Ebro , but fear he may be gone. I can see us grabbing more than 1 TE to control the middle of the field. Thoughts?

and need. I wonder how we value Lewan now. I wanted him first as our pick. I still like Martin, but this draft will be very fun to watch.

and get that extra day two pick, but at 12 Ebron or Donald would probably be fine.

Ebron is undoubtedly a top talent but is he a complete TE? I just don't see the Giants taking him. Instead, I expect them to grab a more complete TE such as Troy Niklas - less talented but a better and more willing blocker.

In comment 11580880 commonthe0ry said:

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that has been the traditional take but the GMEN seem to be breaking some norms with the new offense and bad showing last year. I think a TE like Ebron would have made a world of difference last year. I would love to grab Ebro , but fear he may be gone. I can see us grabbing more than 1 TE to control the middle of the field. Thoughts?

I agree with a 100% we should grab Ebron but i dont think we get two.
I say in the second we come back with a Yankey. Then in round 3 Marcus Martin and go on from there. Because imo we can not afford a luxury pick this yr, and thats what a 2nd TE would be.

Or Evans would help this offense a lot.

In comment 11580889 Phil from WNY said:

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Ebron is undoubtedly a top talent but is he a complete TE? I just don't see the Giants taking him. Instead, I expect them to grab a more complete TE such as Troy Niklas - less talented but a better and more willing blocker.

I think his blocking has a lot of potential because he has been willing to improve. In the end, you cant teach everything he possesses athletically and his receiving ability.

My comment infers value/grade relative to other prospects while on the clock, I'm just tired of typing it after 20 years.

The last time the Giants took a prima donna TE at that level, it was Shockey who became a complete player because he was tenacious and competitive. The problem with Shockey was that he wanted to be more of a pass catcher while the Giants wanted both. Would Ebron have the same issues as Shockey? Would the Giants want to deal with those issues? My guess is no.

better value at 12

OT?

In comment 11580901 Phil from WNY said:

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The last time the Giants took a prima donna TE at that level, it was Shockey who became a complete player because he was tenacious and competitive. The problem with Shockey was that he wanted to be more of a pass catcher while the Giants wanted both. Would Ebron have the same issues as Shockey? Would the Giants want to deal with those issues? My guess is no.

Think what Shockey did for us tho? He was a good TE for a number of years. Yet i also think that Ebron isn't like Shockey. He isn't whining about getting the ball, he is just a little cocky imo(illegal speed and all). Unlike Shockey he wants to be a all-around TE with solid blocking ability. Now he may be saying that because thats what Execs want to hear but who knows.

In comment 11580889 Phil from WNY said:

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Ebron is undoubtedly a top talent but is he a complete TE? I just don't see the Giants taking him. Instead, I expect them to grab a more complete TE such as Troy Niklas - less talented but a better and more willing blocker.

The complete TE preference could be a Gilbride thing. Remember that our new OC was a coach for a team with Finley, who is not a complete TE.

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If we go OL at 12 I'm throwing the remote.

as TC is more run-oriented than Gilbride. I think the Giants are presently committing to the running game as a means towards opening up the passing game.

There is no denying Ebron's talent; I just can't see the Giants taking him.

I don't think the drastically reach for need, but I think its fair to infer that they do assign need substantial weight.

Anyway, we're on the same page-ish and I don't want to rehash this age old debate.

In comment 11580879 chris r said:

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Always of course claiming bpa, but the frequency with which it occurs suggests otherwise.

Given that there are a handful of needs each year, this is likely to occur. There have often been more pressing areas than the position we've drafted.

a passable one with the potential to become an above average one and you think he can be a 900-1000 yard 8 TD guy, you take him in a heartbeat.

like he could well be gone by #12. Pat was saying that she thinks it's unlikely the Giants take Ebron because they want a better blocker. There are also rumors about him being a prima donna, but that may just be the kind of hyper nitpicking that goes on about players, especially those projected in the first round. She thinks Evans is more likely. But then you have Reese and Ross both going to see Ebron, and us having a huge need at that position. There is also his athleticism, and the consensus that he is the best TE in the draft.

I think the bottom line is that he's gone by #12, but that if he isn't, he'll be the pick. My own take is that I would pass, but would nonetheless be fine with the pick. It's certainly not a remote thrower. Neither is Evans or Donald. Lewan and Martin are the only two likely players I don't want. It's a deep OL draft, and Lewan has some lingering character concerns.

he drops and short arms too many passes over the middle. I don't get the love for him.

In comment 11580925 BrettNYG10 said:

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In comment 11580879 chris r said: Quote: Always of course claiming bpa, but the frequency with which it occurs suggests otherwise. Given that there are a handful of needs each year, this is likely to occur. There have often been more pressing areas than the position we've drafted.

Now you gone done it. I'm talking first round only, BTW.

- Ross was after the Giants CB debacle the previous year
- Phillips was after the CC Brown fiasco
- Nicks was after the Plax incident
- JPP was more BPA
- Prince was also more BPA
- Wilson was drafted after Jacobs left and Bradshaw had been injured again and had a down year. RB was one of it not the biggest needs
- Pugh was drafted when OL was clearly the biggest need

So I would say 5/7 of Reese's first round picks have been at a position that was arguably the Giants biggest need.

Would be a horrible pick at 12. There's lots of great value at TE throughout the draft. Ebron is not a complete TE and doesn't even possess the kind of elite attributes for things he does well which are not many.

We need to draft a high value and impact pick and there's lots of guys on the DL and OL who fit the profile.

Plus most of those on BBI who can't seem to spell our own guys names right would continually post and refer to him as Enron. Not sure we want to see that.

And the guy I want most with the 12th pick, but I personally can't see him being better then Graham. Obviously other people think differently. Even if he is anywhere near the player that Graham is then he is worth the 12th pick without a doubt.

He is the best player at his position and it happens to be our biggest need. Everything fits perfect for us to take him.

is an elite TE or an elite WR more valuable?

I tend to think WR, even though getting elite production from a TE is rarer.

So I think there's a third factor to account in addition to need and player ability - positional value.

In comment 11580932 chris r said:

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In comment 11580925 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: In comment 11580879 chris r said: Quote: Always of course claiming bpa, but the frequency with which it occurs suggests otherwise. Given that there are a handful of needs each year, this is likely to occur. There have often been more pressing areas than the position we've drafted. Now you gone done it. I'm talking first round only, BTW. - Ross was after the Giants CB debacle the previous year - Phillips was after the CC Brown fiasco - Nicks was after the Plax incident - JPP was more BPA - Prince was also more BPA - Wilson was drafted after Jacobs left and Bradshaw had been injured again and had a down year. RB was one of it not the biggest needs - Pugh was drafted when OL was clearly the biggest need So I would say 5/7 of Reese's first round picks have been at a position that was arguably the Giants biggest need.

Nicks and Phillips could both be considered BPA at the time as well. Also, Phillips was drafted in 2008 - the CC Brown debacle occurred in 2009 (after which we signed Rolle). I'd also argue that OL was the biggest need in 2012, not RB.

But the C.C. Brown fiasco was in 2009, in part because of the injury to KP, who was drafted in 2008. We lost Gibril Wilson to free agency (Oakland...who else?) that year.

Don't think the Giants would take him at 12. You want to talk need, look at the present DL roster. Donald is the pick IMHO. You can get TE talent in round 2 or 3.

I think Phillips and Nicks were among the BPA in those years. Also, I think the Giants have been very slow to recognize the decline/value of the OL, so while arguably should have been the biggest need in 2012, I'm not sure it was.

I think that if two players are in the same tier, we will weigh need - but if a player is in a tier to himself according to our scouts, we'll pick him. Kiwanuka is an example of that. I don't think draft boards are necessarily numbered, but I could be wrong.

In comment 11580950 BrettNYG10 said:

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I think that if two players are in the same tier, we will weigh need - but if a player is in a tier to himself according to our scouts, we'll pick him. Kiwanuka is an example of that. I don't think draft boards are necessarily numbered, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, that makes sense and I think Reese has said something to that effect. They obviously loved JPPs upside and Prince was nearly unanimously rated higher than where he was drafted, so you could imagine those two being in a player tier above players at positions of greater need.

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"He is the best tight-end prospect I have evaluated since Kellen Winslow Jr.," Lande said

I do not believe that Winslow came near reaching his potential.

It takes a lot more than just physical ability to become great. You have to want it and be willing to be willing to pay the price.
Ebron has ability but also has questionsble work ethics and a reputation as a me first player.

He can make the great play but will he block and do the dirty work ?

In comment 11580950 BrettNYG10 said:

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I think that if two players are in the same tier, we will weigh need - but if a player is in a tier to himself according to our scouts, we'll pick him. Kiwanuka is an example of that. I don't think draft boards are necessarily numbered, but I could be wrong.

I'm pretty certain JR goes by "tiers". And if memory serves correct, there have been reports by beat writers that there was one OL a "tier" above David Wilson but they still went with Wilson. Also, Eric from BBI knowing who we were going for before the draft even started suggests that they both loved Wilson and thinks we really needed a RB.

"There are many athletic tight ends playing college football, but few show the courage and fearlessness to catch passes in traffic," he said.


Funny because I didn't see that that often from watching him

in a trade down. I just think there will likely be better players there at 12. Still, if the Giants thought highly enough to take him at 12, I wouldn't be upset.

so if they are take him at 12 im all on board

although im curious to see if someone like watkins, mack,matthews, robinson makes it to around pick 8 would they trade up to snag one if they slip

Reese ends up going after Ebron. He has been trying to get that athlete-type at the position for awhile now. He really thought they had it in Beckum a few years back. I would say there is as good a shot of him being the selection as any player.

I think we're basically in agreement then. I've viewed it as BPA with contingencies - meaning that if there isn't a discernible BPA, we will factor in current and future needs.

AGF - I think some insiders here refuted that there was an OL ranked above Wilson. Could be wrong.

He's pretty good - this is the part he wrote about Ebron that excites me on tape:

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"There are many athletic tight ends playing college football, but few show the courage and fearlessness to catch passes in traffic," he said. "It is interesting that for a player who doesn't always maintain concentration on the field, (Ebron) does consistently catch passes in traffic, take hard hits after the catch and hold onto the ball."

In comment 11580960 Anakim said:

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"There are many athletic tight ends playing college football, but few show the courage and fearlessness to catch passes in traffic," he said. Funny because I didn't see that that often from watching him

I don't know what tape you've been watching - but I certainly saw that in his highlight tapes. Very physical - goes up for the ball in traffic and takes hits and comes down with it, and gets up and walks off. Also an arm tackle is not going to bring this guy down. He also makes a lot of one hand catches.

Fearlessnes over the middle?

I have games notes from THREE different games where Ebron clearly slowed up over the middle and/or did not get after it. That is a poor job by Lande.

for those of you talking about BPA - Remember - even Reese says that when they pick they use a combination of BPA and area of need

I keep reading that his blocking will improve because he is willing. Myers was willing to block and he was not good at it.

With defenses in the NFL the way they are, TE are open all the time if you choose to release them in the pattern. There are plenty of less athletic TE who cause problems. Witten has been doing it forever. Heath Miller has as well. Owen Daniels, Scott Chandler, Pettigrew and Gresham are effective and non are top end athletically.

DO you really need to use the 12th pick on a TE in todays NFL

On TE
We don't really know about the new OC

We do know that the entire JInt organization wants to revamp the run game

JR has invested some $ in bringing in the Raider RBI and a starting OG in Schwartz and C in Walton

They need to finish what they started and draft a quality OT and run blocking TE who can be a third receiving option in the pass game IMO

The D is close to dominant now that the secondary is shored up

A couple of more big bodies on D will allow the coaching staff to play ball control and field position now that they have actually procured some quality returners

All of this means that Eli won't have to be such a risk taker in the pass game and will therefore likely decrease his turnovers

In comment 11581043 ChicagoMarty said:

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The D is close to dominant now that the secondary is shored up

I think this is a stretch. We have a very average at best front 7 right now on paper.

One plus LBer.

Jenkins and JPP as the only proven good players on the DL with JPP being a big question mark.

I wouldn't call our defense dominant by any stretch. It has potential for now, but we need to add to the offense so that they can get back to being a top 10 unit.

In comment 11580959 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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In comment 11580950 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I think that if two players are in the same tier, we will weigh need - but if a player is in a tier to himself according to our scouts, we'll pick him. Kiwanuka is an example of that. I don't think draft boards are necessarily numbered, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty certain JR goes by "tiers". And if memory serves correct, there have been reports by beat writers that there was one OL a "tier" above David Wilson but they still went with Wilson. Also, Eric from BBI knowing who we were going for before the draft even started suggests that they both loved Wilson and thinks we really needed a RB.

That would be Cordy Glenn, but the Giants apparently had concerns about his weight.