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2014 NFL Draft - Question to ponder

Sy'56 : 3/23/2014 8:12 pm
And I challenge you to really think about this one prior to posting something in response.

There is a notion out there that several teams are looking to trade DOWN in this class because of the depth. Yes, indeed there is a lot of depth. But in situations such as these, I always look for the value the exists in the shadows, the opportunities that are overlooked. The question is....

Who would you trade UP for? NYG may sit within striking distance of a few players that could really elevate the level of this team in year one. Being almost done with my grading process, here is my tentative list.

Trade 1st AND 2nd

In a normal draft, that could get NYG up to the 6-7 area of round 1. Perhaps in this draft, NYG could creep up to 5-6?

Sammy Watkins - WR/Clemson

I would trade up for Watkins in a heartbeat. Even though the depth of this WR class is unusually high, Watkins owns the top tier and resides there by himself. He is an NFL-ready playmaker that could help in a lot of ways. NYG needs a WR for the outside and a guy that can make things happen after the catch. Watkins does both at a really high level. He'd be a stud in this offense.

JaDaveon Clowney DE/South Carolina

I still think he is a lock for the top 3 but I would there is still a little part of me that can see him escaping the top 5 if these teams are QB-hungry at the top. Clowney has his questions regarding effort and consistency. But if NYG could bring him in by trading their 1st and 2nd roudners, you did it in a heartbeat. The pass rush is currently an issue for this team and they have not upgraded it at all.

Trade 1st and 3rd

I think this could get NYG up to the 8-9-10 area this year

Khalil Mack - LB/Buffalo

I hesitated on this one, because I may end up willing to trade a 1 and 2 for Mack. He is much better in coverage than I initially thought. Mack has a natural feel for the game and it shows all over the field. His greatest strength is rushing the edge, we all know that. But he is a nice tight-space player as well with the ability to get off blocks and pursue. His talent would be a nice addition to the Giants defense.

Jake Matthews - OT/Texas A& M

I like Matthews a lot because of how reliable he will be. I don't view him as a star, as I think his ceiling is limited. He doesn't have a huge power presence and he doesn't have elite movement ability. But he is and will be a guy that consistently gets the job done on either side of the line.

****

Who would YOU trade up for, and why?

Nice thread sy  
Earl the goat : 3/23/2014 8:17 pm : link
I always enjoy reading your posts,comments analysis etc

Sammy Watkins in a heartbeat. He will make Cruz twice as productive especially if he plays the slot
Mack is everything Reese wanted Clint Sintim to be  
GmenDynasty : 3/23/2014 8:17 pm : link
And much more. He is a very rare talent at the LB position
I can't see the value in trading up like that.  
Kevin_in_Pgh : 3/23/2014 8:24 pm : link
It's just hard for me to believe that any of those guys can have more impact than two guys you could draft in those spots - that someone is not only twice as good as a guy you can get 4-6 picks later, but also that much better than that guy PLUS the additional guy you get in round 2 or 3. That's especially true when you think about how many holes we have.

That, to me, would mean you are getting a Strahan/Eli type guy... And those are awfully hard to find.
watkins' tape is ridiculous  
mattlawson : 3/23/2014 8:26 pm : link
guy is well above every other WR prospect we might have in mind. an absolute game changing player. total stud
Mack and Sintim are nothing alike  
Modus Operandi : 3/23/2014 8:26 pm : link
Weird comparison.
Clowney  
Matt G : 3/23/2014 8:28 pm : link
Only Clowney
I'd consider going back up into Rd. 1 with our  
yatqb : 3/23/2014 8:30 pm : link
2nd and 3rd to land Su'a-Filo were we to take Donald or another defensive lineman in the 1st. But I likely wouldn't do it. This draft is too deep.

I wouldn't trade up in Round 1 for anyone; it would cost too much.
keep in mind  
DaddyM89 : 3/23/2014 8:30 pm : link
miami traded up from 12 to 3 last year with oakland by just giving up their 2nd
Problem is this team is not one player away  
Simms11 : 3/23/2014 8:33 pm : link
from another championship. There's far too many ?s' and not enough talent. Can't see us giving up another high draft pick to move up to get that one player. There's still great value at #12. They need to stand pat and draft the BPA, excluding QB of course.
Damn sy, I'm liking what you're thinkin!  
Neverend : 3/23/2014 8:34 pm : link
I too share the opinion of trading up for Watkins

Its all about.. its a deep draft its a deep draft. You can find a wide receiver in round 2 3 and 4.

Fuck that bro! Watkins is a sure fire thing. Point blank, period. No argument. Its undisputable. He can do it all. Hes the best wide receiver to come out since AJ Green. He has a second gear to run by corners, he has that absolutely tremendously rare ability and skill to high point the football for a receiver of his size, he plucks the ball out of the air and is a hands catcher in the purest sense of the definition (unlike other guys like kelvin Benjamin and marquise lee and even ebron while we're at it), he can separate on breaking routes, and although he isn't truly NFL ready in terms of how to get off press coverage and things of that nature - he has athletic traits that serve him well down the line once he sees more of that in the league

If it takes a 2, I don't care how deep this draft is, I'm trading up and doing it. Watkins is the type of player that can change your franchise, he's the type of guy you can build your offense around. You're talking about a perennial pro bowler and an all-pro if he stays healthy. There is no offensive player in this draft but Watkins that can change an offense like he can. I don't think the Jets remembered the 2nd round pick they gave up for Revis. The cowboys gave up a 2 for Claiborne and the dolphins gave up a 2 for dion Jordan. Its very plausible that is all the giants have to give up since this draft is highly regarded for its depth. The fact that the draft is so highly thought of and deep only helps the case for trading up since you don't have to give up a lot

Make it happen New York Giants!
In a draft with so much depth  
AnishPatel : 3/23/2014 8:35 pm : link
it would be dumb to trade UP for talent. We are not 1 or 2 players away. We have a lot of spots to fill. Trading up and losing picks is something I wouldn't want to do.

Now..If the scouts feel next years draft class is thin in talent and depth, I'd be willing to trade picks from next year while allowing us to get our player we want. Basically keeping our picks from this year to draft talent.

I would trade up for Watkins, but wait out anyone else  
BigBlueBuff : 3/23/2014 8:35 pm : link
at this point.
.....  
Micko : 3/23/2014 8:36 pm : link
I think you only trade up when you're a couple of players away from being elite (unless you're trading up for a QB). In the Giants case - you only trade down. However, I understand the point of this thread is to answer the trade up scenario.....still can't do it. There is no one I would trade up for using the #12 pick in the 2nd round.
Sy  
Big Rick in FL : 3/23/2014 8:42 pm : link
What happened with Mack? I remember you saying multiple times that he did not fit the Giants scheme.
Wait a second  
Sy'56 : 3/23/2014 8:42 pm : link
When is a team EVER one player away? Especially in a draft? That is an odd statement.

And please take a look at draft classes over the past few years and figure out the percentage of 2nd/3rd rounders that actually perform for multiple years at a high level. The number won't be good....
Big Rick  
Sy'56 : 3/23/2014 8:43 pm : link
I've seen every Buffalo tape from 2013 now...and actually 3 from last year. I have a better perception of his game now and he can play the 4-3 SAM role, no doubt.
I'm glad you came around  
Big Rick in FL : 3/23/2014 8:46 pm : link
I agree with you. I completely think he would work here and I would absolutely love us picking him. I don't even care if we had to give up a 3rd.
I would trade up for Watkins  
Mike in NY : 3/23/2014 8:47 pm : link
Barring that I would explore trading down and taking Matthews, Beckham Jr., or Cooks in the latter part of Round 1
Great  
AcidTest : 3/23/2014 8:51 pm : link
thread. I would trade up for Watkins. Game changer. Electric. I'd also trade up for Clowney. I wouldn't for Mack or Matthews. Mack comes from a smaller school, and also plays a position which has been deemphasized over the last ten years. Like RB on offense. As far as Matthews is concerned, this draft is rich in OL. Morgan Moses could be had with a trade down. I also like JuWuan James, who will probably be available at #43. This team still has a ton of holes. Trading up in a deep draft better be for an incredible player. Only Watkins and Clowney meet that criteria IMO.
RE: Wait a second  
AnishPatel : 3/23/2014 8:51 pm : link
In comment 11582899 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
When is a team EVER one player away? Especially in a draft? That is an odd statement.

And please take a look at draft classes over the past few years and figure out the percentage of 2nd/3rd rounders that actually perform for multiple years at a high level. The number won't be good....


Well as in the tram has loaded talent so they want to make an attempt to solidify a blue chip player. This draft that has very good depth. I don't see the benefit of trading up to get a player when we have so many holes. I don't see that as effificient at all.

If analysis shows next years class isn't strong then use those picks otherwise no thanks in trading up. However in your hypothetical I always liked Watkins. But I wouldn't trade him for anyone. Stay pat at 12 and see who drops. We will be getting a good player no matter what.

I am not aggressive in nature to wheel and deal like that. I would see what happens and what we give up and for who. Let's see how this draft unfolds.
It's been a  
GMEN BALLIN 94 : 3/23/2014 8:52 pm : link
very exciting off season filled with moves we don't typically see the Giants make. Maybe this trend will carry over into the draft?
for as shitty  
Chip : 3/23/2014 8:52 pm : link
as this team has drafted trading up for Matthews or Watkins makes total sense. How many 2nd round draft picks pan out anyway. Don't forget the Shockey trade where the 2nd rounder and 5th rounder turned out to be complete duds. Do not over rate draft picks and getting a sure thing like Watkins or Matthews makes sense.
its actually a very interesting idea  
Peter from CT : 3/23/2014 8:54 pm : link
though not likely to happen. The issue for the Giants is the need to fill a depleted team. Losing the second or third when we have the holes we have probably makes this a non-starter considering where the Giants are right now.

May be tremendous value, but not the right year to do it.
I'd do it in a New York Minute  
EddieNYG : 3/23/2014 8:54 pm : link
I'd be more interested in getting Watkins, although I'm not against Clowney. I think the Giants have a Clowney type DE in JPP.

1st Round - WR Sammy Watkins
3rd Round - TE CJ Fiedorowicz
4th Round - C Russell Bodine
5th Round - DE Will Clarke
5th Round - RB James White
6th Round - No clue

Sign TE Jermichael Finley once he is cleared to a one year deal. Also sign a veteran swing T as insurance policy.
Let's face it...  
GMEN BALLIN 94 : 3/23/2014 8:56 pm : link
There's always a team who has a total WTF pick in the top 10-15. Whether it be an unexpected trade up or mega reach, it never fails it's going to happen. With the supposed run on QB's and OT's and a WTF pick in the mix we could have a chance at more players at 12 than we originally thought.
I think these guys are definitely gonna go in front of us  
Big Rick in FL : 3/23/2014 9:05 pm : link
Bridgewater
Manziel
Carr
Bortles
Watkins
Clowney
Matthews
G. Robinson
Lewan

That leaves only two teams before we pick. So we one of Ebron, Mack & Barr will be there. I could see a team taking Barr before Mack. Some GMs might be scared to take a guy who played for Buffalo over a guy with a similar playing style who played at UCLA.
Reese would never trade up....  
George from PA : 3/23/2014 9:07 pm : link
He values his picks too much.

Plus....draft picks are bargains from a cap stand point.

One can also feel we have 3-4-5 holes....OL, TE, WR, DT, DE.

We need the picks
Makes sense, with a deep draft you can get more players with less too  
GloryDayz : 3/23/2014 9:34 pm : link
More productive players I mean....

You may lose picks trading up, but there's also a better chance players selected are more productive/better than in years when the draft isn't so deep.
too many holes  
Blue Blood : 3/23/2014 9:40 pm : link
to trade up.. we need to hit on as many picks as possible this year..
Reese would definitely  
Big Rick in FL : 3/23/2014 9:41 pm : link
trade up if a player he loved was attainable at a decent price. He had a deal set up in 2007 to trade up for Revis. Also was interested in trading up for Darrius Heyward-Bey in 2009.

So it is definitely a possibility that he could trade up. Plus this offseason has been a whole lot different then most off seasons. So anything can definitely happen.
Great thread - guys I would trade up for  
Eric on Li : 3/23/2014 9:46 pm : link
(one thing to note is in each of these trades I would hope to get back a 6th or a 7th round pick because this roster has a lot of holes and there's a ton of depth in this draft)

1st & 2nd
Clowney - More athletic than JPP and only just turned 21.
Robinson - Dominating run blocker - changes the OL for a decade. Does someone fall in love with Matthews and let him fall?
Watkins - Shorter Julio Jones, just as good at everything else, maybe even better RAC.
Mack - Big time defensive playmaker.

1st & 3rd
Matthews - Excellent tools and carries the most valuable name in football.

It's pretty crazy to think that theres a good chance at least 1 of those top 4 guys is sitting there at 6 or 7.

RE: Reese would definitely  
Neverend : 3/23/2014 9:50 pm : link
In comment 11583016 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
trade up if a player he loved was attainable at a decent price. He had a deal set up in 2007 to trade up for Revis. Also was interested in trading up for Darrius Heyward-Bey in 2009.

So it is definitely a possibility that he could trade up. Plus this offseason has been a whole lot different then most off seasons. So anything can definitely happen.


it was maclin, the deal they had in place with Detroit was for maclin. heyward-bey was the 'wtf pick' in the top 10, they couldn't have traded up for him. but your point is a good one
What it would take  
jbeintherockies : 3/23/2014 9:53 pm : link
1. QB
2. Pass Rusher
3. OT
4. CB
5. WR

That is my list of importance. Since the Giants don't need a QB, if a pass rusher were to fall, they might move up for that. If Greg Robinson falls, they might move up for him. I wouldn't move up from where they are picking for any other position. Darrelle Revis was the 14th pick in the 2007 draft and I don't think that draft was particularly strong. The Giants should be able to get a great, if not the best, CB/WR picking twelfth.
Yes they might have  
Big Rick in FL : 3/23/2014 9:56 pm : link
Had something set up for Maclin during the draft.

Prior to the draft and the Raiders taking him at 7 or 8 we were interested in moving up to around 18-20 for him. He was supposedly our favorite WR in the draft. Obviously once he went that high they wanted to make a move for Maclin. Either way it shows Reese has interest in trading up and if he didn't get picked right before we would have actually made the deals to move up.
Yes to get Watkins or Clowney  
Glover : 3/23/2014 10:00 pm : link
My initial thought was that Mack is not worth the 12th pick, let alone giving up their second round pick for, because a SAM linebacker is not worth that. I also thought Denver was wrong for drafting Von Miller, because I felt he would be wasted at SAM, and he would fit best as a 3-4 OLB pass rusher. Fox was able to make the pick work for the Broncos, but can Fewell make it work for the Giants? I guess he would be an every down LB and just about always rush the QB on passing downs.
Im still not convinced that one of the top 3 tackles wont be there at 12, so, I wouldn't trade up for Matthews.
I wouldn't complain  
bceagle05 : 3/23/2014 10:13 pm : link
if they made a play for Watkins. It's rare that we're picking this high - we should be open to anything. We lost Nicks, and I don't think the QB, coaches or organization are thrilled with Randle's development.
out of all the players though..  
Blue Blood : 3/23/2014 10:19 pm : link
Watkins is the ONLY one I would move up for.. in fact I wont even watch his videos online..no sense teasing myself..
Watkins or clowney  
NewYorkGiants : 3/23/2014 10:25 pm : link
i would trade up for in a heartbeat
RE: Yes they might have  
Neverend : 3/23/2014 10:31 pm : link
In comment 11583058 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Had something set up for Maclin during the draft.

Prior to the draft and the Raiders taking him at 7 or 8 we were interested in moving up to around 18-20 for him. He was supposedly our favorite WR in the draft. Obviously once he went that high they wanted to make a move for Maclin. Either way it shows Reese has interest in trading up and if he didn't get picked right before we would have actually made the deals to move up.


Yeah you're probably right, mike said the giants were really interested in heyward-bey as the draft was really close. nobody saw him getting taken before crabtree and maclin dropping that far as a result of it. if you're right that means that trading up was a pre-determined thing which would be really interesting if true. I just assumed they wanted to trade up for maclin because he unexpectedly drop. thankfully they 'settled' for nicks hehe
Clowney is the only one  
oipolloi : 3/23/2014 10:43 pm : link
Watkins will be a good player but he is not a potential generational player like Clowney

Mack could be good. But not a sure-fire perennial pro bowler by any means

Matthews might be worth giving up a third because he likely could come in and start if Beatty falters again, which is highly likely imo
Really like this thread.  
bceagle05 : 3/23/2014 10:53 pm : link
We talk ad nauseam about how poorly the Giants have drafted in recent years, and how much of a crapshoot the draft is in general - maybe this is a year to be bold and get a blue-chipper. We're positioned pretty well at #12, and we've added a lot of new blood via free agency. If all it takes is swapping firsts and throwing in a second for a Watkins or Clowney, I'd take the deal and run with it.
If we get four holes plugged in this draft I'd be happy  
SGMen : 3/23/2014 10:56 pm : link
We could surely use an OC/OG type; DT, DE and TE. Those are four positions I think we need filled in this draft for sure.
if they feel they can tap all of Clowney's potential  
Hades07 : 3/23/2014 11:40 pm : link
He would be worth at least a one and a two. One great player can make all the difference in the world. Take LT away from the 80s Giants and plug in another very good LBer and the defense would still be very good, but I don't think they would have even made it to the first two SBs they won.
Clowney  
Mr. Nickels : 3/24/2014 1:56 am : link
or Watkins or Matthews. I would personally only do it for Clowney. Watkins and Matthews have Evans and Lewan not too far behind them. Clowney is alone as the elite pass rusher of the class.
I wonder how much the price of trading up...  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/24/2014 5:55 am : link
...is influenced by the number of teams willing to trade down. In theory, the market should float freely, according to supply and demand. In practice, I don't think it's common for a team to accept much less than the "value chart" compensation for trading down. Last year's Dion Jordan deal was an example; if the Jaguars were willing to play Oakland's role in a repeat of that deal, and Clowney were on the board at #3, the Giants would probably do it.

The problem is, I suspect other GMs would outbid Reese in that scenario. By all accounts, Clowney is a much better prospect than Jordan; the Falcons, who appear to covet him, are armed with the 6th and 37th picks and a proven appetite for trading up. Besides, if the Jaguars are thinking QB, they will completely lose control of their choices by dropping behind Cleveland, Oakland, Minnesota and Tennessee. (Even the Vikings, at #8, might hesitate to drop down to #12 because the Titans could snag their target at #11.) If the Jaguars aren't thinking QB and don't like Clowney, they will have better options at #3 than trading down cheaply (Robinson, Watkins, Matthews, etc.)

Still, I think Sy's guesses are about right with regard to how far the Giants could jump by giving up their second- or third-round pick. As for who would be worth it, I don't watch enough CFB to have a useful opinion. I'd give up the second-rounder for Clowney or the third-rounder for Watkins or Mack, but I doubt either of those prices would be sufficient and I'm mostly relying on others' assessments of those players.
TRADE on Draft Day  
MadTeck : 3/24/2014 4:53 pm : link
If the G-men trade up they should try their best to keep their existing first round pick. It's in perfect spot to handle a need and get the best player available like a TE; Ebron. They need a pass rusher with either Mack or Clowney. These players add an aggressive persona which can help make the team better. Give a 2nd and 3rd this year and maybe a 3rd next year, I know it seems excessive but if it puts a Lombardi in the self... ALL IN !!!!
Clowney or Watkins would be the guys I trade up for if I was looking  
Optimus-NY : 3/25/2014 1:26 am : link
for a player with the biggest instant impact for the Giants in their first year on the team.
I missed this thread somehow  
mrvax : 3/25/2014 7:08 pm : link
But Sy's suggested players to trade up for, I agree except for Matthews. I don't think he is good enough to warrant giving up a 1st and 3rd for.

As a consolation, if none of this is possible, I'd stay put at #12 and draft Aaron Donald. This guy will be a fantastic addition to any NFL team. I bet his play will be just as noteworthy as Clowney's will be.
RE: I'd do it in a New York Minute  
PeterS : 3/26/2014 10:48 am : link
In comment 11582924 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
I'd be more interested in getting Watkins, although I'm not against Clowney. I think the Giants have a Clowney type DE in JPP.

1st Round - WR Sammy Watkins
3rd Round - TE CJ Fiedorowicz
4th Round - C Russell Bodine
5th Round - DE Will Clarke
5th Round - RB James White
6th Round - No clue

Sign TE Jermichael Finley once he is cleared to a one year deal. Also sign a veteran swing T as insurance policy.
Love your 1st and 3rd round choices but Clarke might go 2nd round while Bodine might not even get drafted.
Clarke  
Mike in NY : 3/26/2014 11:03 am : link
Is a tough player to grade, just like Urban of Virginia. He really has to fit your scheme and there was a lot of inconsistency if you look at his tape. While Urban could probably play DT in some schemes, Clarke is limited to DE. I see both carrying late 3rd or 4th round grades from teams
I was saying the other week...  
Amtoft : 3/26/2014 1:18 pm : link
To me we trade up and get one of the top 5 players in this draft... If one of these guys falls to 8 you move up and take him in a heart beat.

OT Greg Robinson
DE Jadeveon Clowney
OT Jake Matthews
OLB Khalil Mack
WR Sammy Watkins

Would you rather Greg Robinson, Matthews, or Watkins vs say Evans and Antonio Richardson... To me give me the surer bet and better player.
Perhaps it's mainly because I haven't seen any of these players  
Big Blue '56 : 3/26/2014 1:32 pm : link
play, but since I don't foresee us in this nice draft position any time soon, I'd rather keep,our picks and take advantage of what is being called a very deep draft
I'd rather keep(no comma)  
Big Blue '56 : 3/26/2014 1:33 pm : link
.
Finally looked at some Sammy Watkins tape.  
BlueLou : 3/26/2014 7:29 pm : link
I'd give up the Giants' 2nd round pick to move up in the 1st and nab Watkins in a NY heartbeat, and I don't believe in drafting WRs early.

Unless the guy is a Jerry Rice/Larry Fitzgerald/Randy Moss type of talent, and this kid is from what I've seen. He's the whole package - speed to burn, hands, hands catcher, route runner, size, did I mention burst?

Reminds me most of Randy Moss minus the mememe. Interviews well too, no Prima in this donna...
If we could get a starting LOT, possibly our #12,  
G-Men43 : 3/27/2014 3:16 am : link
Nassib, our #6,and a 2015 3rd, 4th or a 5th, could attract a team in need of a QB. If the stated assesment is correct that "Nassib is as good or better than most of the top ranking QB's in this 2014 draft". That would leave us our 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 2-5's.

If Eli does not have protection, and if the OL can not open running lanes for the RB's, all of the other choices, while good ones, will not help in getting us back to respectability this upcoming season.

Then again, "if a frog had wings, he would not bump his rump, when ending a jump".

I'd definitely trade the 1 + 2  
illmatic : 3/27/2014 4:27 am : link
for Clowney. You can't pass him up if you have a chance at him. I'd consider doing either of those players for the 1 + 3 but I think I would just prefer to take my chances in seeing if they can fall to 12. Or at least closer to 10-ish so a lower pick can be traded instead.

I'd also move the 12 pick and a second rounder next year to grab Watkins around 5-6. I would much prefer that to trading this year's second or third rounders away.
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