A 7-9 record vs. 5-11

Clowns For Clowney.

Is willing to give up?

yes

there was no value in winning those 2 games. Looking back in 10 years they will be meaningless, but the player we got at 8 may have made a difference. Not saying we should have done anything to throw them, just that winning them is nothing to celebrate

So no, I'd rather have lost those two meaningful games and picked at 8. Almost a certainty that they'd be able to get a higher tiered player or a much better chance of trading back and picking up another premium pick.

Is the pissed away opportunity to get Nassib playing time. Maybe have Eli start and after half time let Nassib play with the starters.

He should have had 2-3 outings. Nah. Let Eli get injured in a meaningless game.

and finishing out 7-3 is the way to go. They really did not beat anyone...but they could have lost to inferior opponents as well.

At 7-9 the team could be measured in the response. At 5-11 I think we would have seen even more of a shakeup. I'm happy with how this offseason is progressing. If JPP is improved I think this should be a pretty formidable defense.

If the O-line settles in...I think they have a shot at the playoffs. Health will be key. This is not a deep team.

are the worst

would be better than who we'd pick at 12. The draft is a crapshoot.

Shouldn't matter too much especially if a couple QBs are drafted. I'd rather win the games no matter the consequences.

of the first to late first round. Jason Pierre Paul (15), Prince Amukamara (19) Justin Pugh (12)

Blane Gabbert was taken #10 overall in 2011. I think teams need to draft the right guy for their system rather than get hung up on the number they're picking at.

Fans over-value draft position. The Giants may wind up with the same player at 12 that they would have picked at 8.

And if Eli completes his passes and Cruz and Wilson dont fumble they could be in the playoffs - enough.

I wanted this team to bottom out and get some added assets in the draft. Great things happened for the Giants when they picked #2 in 1981 and #4 in 2004. I could live with one God-awful record, particularly in a year when the quality of the draft is highly touted. As a fan that doesn't collect a paycheck from the organization, when they suck, I want them to really suck.

Look at the conversation we're having now. Who will be there at #12? This guy or hat guy won't last until #43. I was rooting for the long-term interests of the Giants, knowing full well that they could still have blown a great draft position.

The one unknown is whether Coughlin would have survived a 2-14 or 4-12- type record. I'm glad he is still here. I would like to be sittin top-6 in the draft, however.

What did you want the team to do? Lose on purpose?

They won those games, it happened. It's over with. We're still likely to get a very good player with the 12th pick.

go see how losing and getting high draft picks has worked out for teams like the Jaguars, Browns and lions. I'm sure their fans are thrilled their teams played not to win at the end.

*

Fire the coach, the coordinators, the QB, all of the players... then laying down for a better pick would make sense.

Otherwise, how do you go into the next season knowing that your organization gave up?

In comment 11582985 Aaron Thomas said:

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go see how losing and getting high draft picks has worked out for teams like the Jaguars, Browns and lions. I'm sure their fans are thrilled their teams played not to win at the end.

Suck for Luck worked for the Colts, though ... o.O

thinks like that

didn't put any stock in that 7-3 finish when it came time to shake up the staff and the roster. My biggest fear was that 7-9 wasn't putrid enough to warrant major changes (in their minds). As for the draft order - my personal preference would've been hard fought losses and a worse record. It's not just about the first round - there might be a really good player who slips a bit into the second round, and those few extra slots could make the difference.

At least people show their true colors. Only losers think like that. Get over yourselves.

Guarantees in life or the nfl draft besides death and taxes. You play to win the game period.

with hoping/rooting/being fine with/etc. them losing once they're eliminated from contention.

That said, I don't want a single player on the team entertaining such thoughts.

i think Reese knew that and did not put much stock in the 7-3 record.

I also think Coughlin is on notice. Reese has signed a lot of guys short term with little dead money going forward. This is a roster that gives Coughlin an opportunity to play his style of offense but also one that can be turned over quickly if a new coach is hired.

In comment 11582929 gmen1234 said:

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Is willing to give up?

Nearly half of that team will be gone come training camp and the focus will be turning things around after last years disappointment. You could make points on either side of the argument but I'd rather have the 8th pick.

did you think the Giants were going to win the Superbowl? What about after Eli got sacked 6 times in the first quarter versus Carolina? In fact, if you can't win the championship, why even finish the season?

And I am sure the college player we would draft #8 would love to be on a team that threw its last two games just to pick him. That sounds like a great organization to be part of. What a recruiting tool.

Anybody subscribing to losing those last two games on purpose (or any for that matter) isn't a fan...its just someone who fell off the bandwagon and hit their head too hard.

I enjoyed that Detroit win a lot, knocked them out of the playoffs.

Especially a team as terrible as the 2013 Giants were (much worse than their paper 7-9 record suggested).

Them still fighting and failing their way to a record more in line with their actual sorry team level would have been both possible and perfectly acceptable to me.

In comment 11583115 Wuphat said:

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with hoping/rooting/being fine with/etc. them losing once they're eliminated from contention. That said, I don't want a single player on the team entertaining such thoughts.

I agree. Well said. It would've been cool to land Sammy Watkins.

is quite honestly a stupid fan-ism. There is very little difference between the 12th and 8th pick. Furthermore, nothing in the draft is guarantee, you can get 4-12 and still pick a guy who doesn't pan out. The unpredictability of the draft alone invalidates the argument for losing. Sure, Andrew Luck's come along once a decacde and that is a different equation, but the difference between 8 and 12 is not worth the discussion.

I like watching my team win games.... meaningless or not.

we were #1 until we went 7-3 and bumped up to 12

Shockey was a 12th overall pick

backup QBs. Our OL was decimated by injuries and our star DE, and WR, and the first two DBs on our depth chart lost most, if not all, of the season due to injuries. We benefitted from those injuries just like teams benefitted from ours.

Howard Cosell

Because we got the tackle who had the best rookie season, as opposed to the ones picked before him who played worse. There are plenty of drafts where the #1 pick and the #2 pick end up being one shitty player and one great one.

I'm glad the team showed some fight. Many people here would have been fine with going 3-13 and having your Super Bowl winning coach and quarterback look like a complete joke on a loser team. I'm glad they won some games and will be getting a player just as good at 12 as they would at 8 (or better!).

can say they'd be all right with rooting/hoping for a Giants loss. Ever.

because there is no guarantee we are getting a stud with the 8th pick. teams and Coaches play to win. They don't think about tanking for the draft. I would be disgusted with my team if they sat starters to try and lose for the draft.

Confidence is huge in the NFL. This team gained some confidence & won some games. Despite large tutnover, this confidence (especially defensively) could carry over into next season, similar to how the poor play at the end of 2012 carried over into 2013.

It's always better to win than to lose, IMO. But, when you have a terrible start and the playoffs are out of reach by week 10/11, the losses are much more tolerable because of the draft, IMO. But I could never not root for my team to win.

and your thoughts on the likeliness and plus/minus of that...

Yes. 5-11 is objectively better for this team than 7-9. It's not debatable.

This team didn't need to lose on purpose or quit or tank. If they hadn't had that miraculous stretch of JV QBs after starting 0-6, we'd not have this conversation.

In comment 11582957 PEEJ said:

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Fans over-value draft position. The Giants may wind up with the same player at 12 that they would have picked at 8.

You always play to win the game and I'm glad they won both of those games.

that roots for his team to lose.

4 spots in the draft means squat to me. I want my team to win.

as to whether or not your team should play to win, then you probably won't understand the answer.

The media is upset with them, because they have won too many games.....

They want their team to lose, to get as many lottery balls as possible.....the only way to get to the top in the NBA, is to steal players from other teams or through the draft....the only way it happens in the draft, is if you are real bad....you play to lose in the NBA, to get better....

Indianapolis, whether right or wrong, played to lose to get Luck.....how has that worked out?

It's more important for the psychology of the players going into the next season to have those wins. 4 draft spots won't overcome that.

Why do so many teams that go to the Super Bowl and lose come out the next season and totally shit the bed?

Denver might not, because they have a guy like Peyton Manning leading them, but there are plenty of guys on that roster that are still completely shell-shocked by what happened to them in the Super Bowl.

doesn't understand that there's more to this sport than the draft. Sure, i'd rather have the 8th pick, but i'd also like to have Beason. Who knows what happens if the defense didn't turn around and win us some games. He may not be here. I also wanted to attract FA's; something harder to do when you stink AND have limited cap. We can talk about players only taking the highest offers all we want, but there are players who may take a slightly lower offer to go to a team that's either better suited for their skills, or is closer to winning.

-H Edwards


'bout says it all

isn't the same as losing to games to pick 8 overall. Not even close, in fact.

I didn't know that or really follow it if it was a story.

What exactly did they do?

so tanking for a better draft pick hurts more than it helps. We are a team that's coached by a guy that would never allow players to lay back. The long term effects of trying to win every game regardless of the situation will pay off.

may well have been on the line those last two games...