Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Mark Cuban: NFL popularity will decline due to greed

DanMetroMan : 3/23/2014 11:29 pm
DALLAS - Mark Cuban, the outspoken Dallas Mavericks owner, predicts a drastic decline in the popularity of the NFL over the next decade due to the league's greed.

"I think the NFL is 10 years away from an implosion," Cuban said Sunday evening when his pregame conversation with reporters, which covered a broad range of topics, swayed toward football. "I'm just telling you, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. And they're getting hoggy. Just watch. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. When you try to take it too far, people turn the other way.
Link - ( New Window )
he  
Mr. Nickels : 3/23/2014 11:30 pm : link
is right
He's 1000% correct  
Sean in PA : 3/23/2014 11:32 pm : link
.
and the NBA  
MookGiants : 3/23/2014 11:33 pm : link
isn't greedy?
did he claim the NBA wasn't greedy?  
chris r : 3/23/2014 11:37 pm : link
not seeing the connection.
well  
MookGiants : 3/23/2014 11:39 pm : link
he's saying the league will implode because of greed.

Yet the NBA owners are greedy as well and I don't see him saying anything about the NBA imploding
sounds  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/23/2014 11:40 pm : link
like wishful thinking to me.
I think the relevant  
Ash : 3/23/2014 11:41 pm : link
distinction here is between enlightened self interest and blind greed.
I think he is right but for the wrong reason  
Hades07 : 3/23/2014 11:44 pm : link
The decrease in youth football participation which I expect will be their undoing.
I don't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/23/2014 11:47 pm : link
see a demise of the game.

I see a dumbing down of the game, but that seems to go hand-in-hand with the dumbing down of the rest of the country. We're distracted by bells and whistles. Instead of concentrating on the beauty of a 15-13 defensive struggle (i.e., 1990 NFC Championship Game), fans seem more caught up or convinced to be caught up on NFL Network/ESPN crappy sports coverage, all the crap now added to the TV screen, Fantasy Football, who is doing the halftime show at the Super Bowl, what the latest NFL diva is doing/saying, etc.

That's not just the NFL.
Right on.  
Red Dog : 3/23/2014 11:48 pm : link
I think we are already seeing some erosion of popularity of the NFL - or at least in the willingness of people to spend money to support it - around the edges. The people who made the league a success are being priced out of the ability to support the league.

And his point about saturation of the televison screen is very well taken. Ratings will inevitably decline at some point because there is so much of it on the air and the quantity just continues to increase.
Incase anyone got this far  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/23/2014 11:50 pm : link
without clicking the link...

Quote:

Cuban is specifically referring to the NFL expanding their television package. He considers it a poor business decision for the NFL, which consistently dominates TV ratings, to play games on days other than Sunday and Monday.


Im not a huge fan of Thursday Night Football. But I agree with Hades07. If something knocks the NFL down a peg it won't be this. And they'd have a long way to fall to be anything other than the most popular sport in the country. It is so embedded into the culture right now its ridiculous, nothing is close

hades  
M in CT : 3/23/2014 11:52 pm : link
I agree that's a major problem - and will get worse - but it's not a 10-year problem. interest in youth football, JV and V football is waning, but in 20 or 30 years it'll be a fraction of what it once was. that's when the league will feel the heat from lack of talent in the college ranks, but not too much sooner than that.

in the meantime, this seems like sour grapes from a guy who realizes that NFL teams are much more profitable than NBA teams.
I agree with him  
Sneakers O'toole : 3/23/2014 11:54 pm : link
I won't get into why, I used to bang my head against that wall here more than I'm willing to today. But I think he's right.
I don't know  
Sneakers O'toole : 3/23/2014 11:55 pm : link
that I agree with the ten year timeframe though.
the NBA  
Mr. Nickels : 3/23/2014 11:56 pm : link
already imploded a long time ago. It is irrelevant.
so  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/23/2014 11:59 pm : link
what's going to replace it? Baseball? Basketball? Hockey? Soccer?

NFL will remain king in our lifetime because it is the most exciting, dramatic sport that appeals to our violent natures. Each game is 1/16th of the season.

So the Yankees or Mets or Knicks or Nets drop a game. So what? Giants lose to the Cowboys and it is the end of the world.
Other than the NFL  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 12:00 am : link
the NBA consistently draws bigger TV audiences than any of the other three major sports. And they're on the verge of the 2nd biggest tv contract of the 4 major sports which should be signed within months. And if you follow the demographic trends, it will be the clear cut number 2 sport without a close 3rd within 15-20 years. Among people below the age of 50 they dwarf baseball exponentially

If its not relevant than neither is anything but the NFL.
And much like the NFL  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 12:05 am : link
its one of the 2 major pro sports that non whites actually watch in numbers. In the browning of America that matters a lot going forward
The mental health and concussions thing  
Enoch : 3/24/2014 12:05 am : link
is a far greater threat than Thursday night games or manufactured nostalgic appeals to "toughness" and the virtues of defensive football.

If Cuban wants to make the argument that greed will destroy the NFL, he has a better avenue in the frequency of commercial interruptions and high ticket prices. TNF makes for lousy football, but I can't see how that hurts viewership much.
a shitty  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/24/2014 12:06 am : link
TNF game still gets more viewers than a World Series game.
RE: so  
Enoch : 3/24/2014 12:09 am : link
In comment 11583210 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
what's going to replace it? Baseball? Basketball? Hockey? Soccer?

NFL will remain king in our lifetime because it is the most exciting, dramatic sport that appeals to our violent natures. Each game is 1/16th of the season.

So the Yankees or Mets or Knicks or Nets drop a game. So what? Giants lose to the Cowboys and it is the end of the world.


People can entertain themselves with things that aren't major televised sports. It won't be one thing that displaces the NFL-- it'll be a thousand. Network TV didn't lose it's audience to any one cable channel, it lost a little bit to all of them.
i agree that theres no possible way the nfl could decline  
Neverend : 3/24/2014 12:12 am : link
in a major way. but I do think its possible for it to get watered down if they overexpose the product. people will still watch but its possible.

then again, the 'its not the same as the old days' will always be something people will say about the past no matter what. the nfl could keep the product what it is now in terms of sunday, Monday, and thusrday and people will still say the same thing 20 years from now. mourning over the past and in some ways have a unrealistic nostalgic drive view of the past is within our human nature. the evil new generation logic in all walks and forms of life is something that has been screamed by older people since the beginning of time. so whatever the nfl does it wouldn't make a difference either way and if the product does get watered down it will still be the king of the ratings no matter what
The NFL isn't going anywhere anytime soon  
steve in ky : 3/24/2014 12:23 am : link
The game has been for a while and will continue changing for the worse but in doing so it is appealing to a wider and larger group of casual fans which will result in continued growth and the league making even more money.
Personally  
OC : 3/24/2014 12:53 am : link
The major problem right now is the outrageous cost of going to the live games.
Highly doubt it  
Emil : 3/24/2014 1:10 am : link
The NFL is no more greedy than any other league. In reality, NFL contracts are far below the MLB and NBA on average. I agree with Eric's comments about the dumming down of the game. The push to make defense near impossible drives me nuts.

To me the only things the NFL really has to be mindful of are concussions and the fallout from that coverage, and changes in broadcast media. DirectTV will not enjoy its monopoly on NFL games for long. There is no way it can, too many alternate media outlets out there.
OC  
Hades07 : 3/24/2014 1:13 am : link
I don't think that will matter much to the current generation being raised. Going to a game will not factor as much as it has in the past.
Emil, it's not about how much the players are making  
David in LA : 3/24/2014 1:16 am : link
it's about how much the owners are. Owners definitely have leverage. If you're not a QB, you're making a lot less than you used to.
bull  
Eddie From Toronto : 3/24/2014 1:17 am : link
How can a sport where the Championship game (the Super Bowl) keeps breaking its own record for most viewed program just stop? A terrible 43 to 8 Super Bowl was the most watched program in American history?

Another thing that might be inaccurate about this is the NFL's ability to appeal to women. Anyone who has the NFL network can vouch for me when how many times did they play that women's lib commercial? "I own a football jersey, I'm a female! I'm a trendsetter!" ...

I don't see how a game that is this popular and increasingly popular will just decline in 10 years. It's going to get bigger and bigger in America. The NFL PR people know what they're doing. As long as the Kelly Clarkson and Bruno Mars of the world will continue showing up at NFL sanctioned events the NFL's popularity will continue to increase and increase. Maybe it's reached it's peak which is ridiculous already and then it will decline? Who knows.
I think they could water down the product  
lalalalala : 3/24/2014 1:24 am : link

but it's where demand is. I think the NFL's model is healthier than the NBA's, especially from a competitive standpoint. I'd say probably 75% of the NBA schedule is equivalent to a Thursday Night NFL stinker.

and if it wasn't for the Western Conference, shit, you'd be able to say that about more than half of the PLAYOFF schedule. That potential Raptors/Wizards series ain't putting asses on couches
Not to mention:  
Eddie From Toronto : 3/24/2014 1:40 am : link
How popular is gambling when it comes to the NFL?

Fantasy football

Redzone

the NFL has done such a fantastic job of mastering the average everyday Joe and warping them into an 8 hour couch potato who watches every play "with no commercials" on the NFL Redzone. Every Sunday is like a holiday to me. The appeal is sitting at home with your laptop or tablet checking your fantasy on the couch with nachos and your feet up relaxing on the couch cheering on the Vikings to beat the Cowboys.
Cuban  
BigBlueCane : 3/24/2014 4:27 am : link
is an expert at ruestling jimmies as this thread proves.

And no the NBA isn't really relevant in this country at least. Its the one most likely to have fixed games, has a minor league system that's flawed at its very core and next to baseball, most likely has rampant PED use that goes ignored.
I  
mdthedream : 3/24/2014 6:27 am : link
think whats killing the game is fantasy football and them trying to make it more offensive because of it.
In 10 years we will probably have games every day of the week  
gmen1234 : 3/24/2014 6:29 am : link
due to greed.
So it's ok to have basketball on every night  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/24/2014 6:32 am : link
But not football? He's arrogant and as successful as he is the TV package isn't the reason if and when NFL popularity will fall. He's a successful Donald Trump who loves to hear his own voice. Like most he's wrong as often he is right. He just has enough cash to survive his mistakes.
RE: I  
River Mike : 3/24/2014 6:39 am : link
In comment 11583298 mdthedream said:
Quote:
think whats killing the game is fantasy football and them trying to make it more offensive because of it.


I don't see any logic in that at all.
The problem will be attendance  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 3/24/2014 6:44 am : link
The game at home is becoming better than it is at the stadium. Maybe I'm just getting to be outside of the target age audience but other than a good tailgate, why bother? The tv services are terrific. I DVR it and just watch it through without commercial breaks. I used to go to every game. Not any more. When I do go I just wind up watching most of the live game on the huge screen, so why bother? It truly is not the same....... At least for this pro football fan. Sad but true.

And for me, not hitting the QB too high or not hitting him too low is ridiculous. And this defenseless receiver business? Uh, he's a receiver going out for a pass. He's going to get hit. Ridiculous rule changes that take the violence out of the game. This and not greed will hurt the game.

Let me add  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 3/24/2014 6:48 am : link
Attendance is critical for the TV audience. They want to see the 12th man do his/her stuff. Seeing a fan in freezing cold or soaking wet making noise on 3rd down is a big part of the show. The tv audience will not leave unless the people at the stadiums leave.
Does the NFL really need more money?  
Sean in PA : 3/24/2014 7:08 am : link
that's the point. Adding a playoff team to each conference is just stupid. The playoffs are fine the way they are, no need to further dilute the playoff pool.
Sam Huff with the total nail  
Big Blue '56 : 3/24/2014 7:12 am : link
.
RE: Sam Huff with the total nail  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/24/2014 7:20 am : link
In comment 11583309 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.


Yup. Then add the exorbitant cost to attending. I took my two sons a couple of years ago. $400 for tickets alone. When a day the staid costs upwards of over a weeks take home for most of the populace you are pricing too many people out as well.

Add that to the other issues and you can erode your fan base.
For all the complaining that people do  
Enoch : 3/24/2014 7:24 am : link
about rules taking the violence out of the game, it's a lesser threat than the opposite. Both from the long-term player health concerns, and from the degree to which a season's outcomes are determined more by who stays healthiest than by who puts together the strongest roster and coaching staff.
I could see a demise of the game, but less due to greed or  
jcn56 : 3/24/2014 7:25 am : link
watering down, and more due to the inevitable cost of liability resulting from all the injuries (CTE, etc.).
head injuries  
M in CT : 3/24/2014 8:03 am : link
will damage the league at both ends - it will cost the league a fortune in litigation and public relations for former and existing players, and it will discourage parents from letting their children play football in the first place, thereby diluting the talent pool.

the only thing that can really prevent that from happening (without absurd rule changes that turn the game into glorified two hand touch) is some miracle helmet technology.
The problem with focusing on attendance...  
Dunedin81 : 3/24/2014 8:10 am : link
is that at least as of now there are a finite number of seats for sale because the NFL hasn't expanded in a decade and a half. The country has though, so even if higher ticket prices are turning off a percentage of fans the bulk of the teams are playing to larger populations.
As for head injuries...  
Dunedin81 : 3/24/2014 8:13 am : link
they certainly matter, but the two biggest talent pools for the NFL - the South (particularly the rural South) and urban areas - are not the ones beset by a decline in youth football. In the South youth football, especially HS, can rival college and pro football for popularity, and in urban areas it's one of the few tickets out, one with a lot more scholarships on offer than basketball. So the popularity of playing football will probably continue to decline in the suburbs, but that's not everything.
Yup....  
Doomster : 3/24/2014 8:27 am : link
The problem will be attendance
Still a Sam Huff fan : 6:44 am : link : reply
The game at home is becoming better than it is at the stadium. Maybe I'm just getting to be outside of the target age audience but other than a good tailgate, why bother? The tv services are terrific. I DVR it and just watch it through without commercial breaks.


Absolutely.......With big screen HD TV's coupled with a good sound system, and a couple of your buddies over for a few beers, it can't be beat......For me, to get to Foxboro, it's an hour drive.....then depending on when you get there, determines how long it takes you just to get into the parking lot.....if you get there early to tailgate, no problem.....if just getting there for game time, add 1/2 hour or more(likewise getting out)......If you work 5 or 6 days a week, the wife is not too happy if you are gone all day Sunday with your buddies...



I used to go to every game. Not any more. When I do go I just wind up watching most of the live game on the huge screen, so why bother? It truly is not the same....... At least for this pro football fan. Sad but true.

Being only able to afford the cheap seats, you are far away from the action....not fun watching the game with binoculars, and coping with the wind, cold, and obnoxious fans....rather use the money to go to the Cape for the weekend...




And for me, not hitting the QB too high or not hitting him too low is ridiculous. And this defenseless receiver business? Uh, he's a receiver going out for a pass. He's going to get hit. Ridiculous rule changes that take the violence out of the game. This and not greed will hurt the game.

We grew up with violence being part of the game......the newer generation, won't see it and won't miss it......but the safety of the game is at stake here....When you look at the cap, where is the highest % of it spent? QB and skill positions.....what happens when the QB goes down? More often than not, the team....Look at Indy when Peyton didn't play....in '07 or '11, did the Giants have a backup that would have enabled the Giants to win SB's? It's big business...your QB goes down, teams lose, attendance and TV audience goes down.... It all trickles down....

Guys like Dawkins, got away with murder for years....players were hurt....you can't single out Dawkins and others, so you make a rule change to help defenseless players....unfortunately, not all field referees see he game the same way.....

Players today are bigger, stronger, faster....thus the momentum of their impact on hitting someone, is much greater...hits that in the past, would have been "shaken off", are now taking guys out of a game, and causing problems down the road.....

If you consider, safety watering down the sport, it's true....the game will never be played like it once was....like I said, newer generations, will become use to this type of play and not miss it....I'd rather see guys stay on the field, rather than be taken out by injury......the colosseum mentality has been bred into us a long time ago....."Maximus! Maximus! Maximus!"
there are a lot of factors  
fkap : 3/24/2014 8:31 am : link
Cuban made a comment about increased TV coverage bringing about a downfall. MNF has been around for decades. TNF has been around for 7-8 years. Is there any hard evidence that these have been bad for the game? Now, there's been limited expansion to saturdays.

He has a minor point that sooner or later there'll be too much football for the average viewer. However, the NFL is slowly expanding. When the returns aren't there, they'll stop expanding. It's nothing like Who Wants To Be a Millionaire, which was a fad show that was suddenly expanded exponentially and then fizzled out. That's a horrible comparison.

Sports viewership is driven mainly by fans rooting for a specific team, secondarily by overall football fans wanting to watch any non specific football game as long as it's good. Attendance is driven almost solely by rooting fans, and that's driven by quality of product. As long as they don't increase the number of games per team per week, you're not going to seriously impact viewership or attendance. No matter what day of the week they're on, Giants fans will watch the Giants play.

It's equally stupid for Cuban to comment on fan inconvenience, when he presides over a team that inconveniences its fans for the majority of their games.


All this isn't to say that the NFL isn't driving the product into the ground.
I'd worry more about MLB  
I Love Clams Casino : 3/24/2014 8:36 am : link
especially in cities outside of New York, St Louis, Boston and Los Angeles
Hahahaha!  
Cam in MO : 3/24/2014 8:36 am : link
Quote:
next to baseball, most likely has rampant PED use that goes ignored.



Yup. The NFL doesn't have rampant PED use that goes ignored.



....  
SamTheTram : 3/24/2014 8:47 am : link
I think a lot of the views stemming from this thread boil down to overlooked fact. The average BBIer is not the demographic the NFL is targeting right now. Look at all the advertising. Sports drinks, beats by dre, athletic wear, all the apparrell. The major customer of all those things is teens to mid 20s I'd guess.

And the driving factor behind all the NFL's decisions? Fantasy football. I used to be into it, but the past couple years I haven't played as it was just too demanding on my time to be competitive. It is insanely popular with the youths. Every rule change encourages more scoring which is a direct result.

I'm 32 years old, married with a house. I don't have the time to sit and watch like I used to. I would be glued to the TV from 1pm to 11:30 every sunday, along with most of the Monday night game. I just can't (or don't want to) do it anymore I can't imagine how it'd be if children were in the picture as well. I don't think the NFL would be wise to invest any marketing dollars or incorporate any rule changes to satisfy people like me.

the spectacle will always draw eyes  
newmike2 : 3/24/2014 8:49 am : link
but they are in danger of turning off the historical audience by diluting the product to include marginal audiences.
RE: I don't  
Giants2012 : 3/24/2014 9:27 am : link
In comment 11583193 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
see a demise of the game.

I see a dumbing down of the game, but that seems to go hand-in-hand with the dumbing down of the rest of the country. We're distracted by bells and whistles. Instead of concentrating on the beauty of a 15-13 defensive struggle (i.e., 1990 NFC Championship Game), fans seem more caught up or convinced to be caught up on NFL Network/ESPN crappy sports coverage, all the crap now added to the TV screen, Fantasy Football, who is doing the halftime show at the Super Bowl, what the latest NFL diva is doing/saying, etc.

That's not just the NFL.


Add in the crap play around the league by most of the teams. So few practices, not hitting during the week and rapid roster turnover resulted in many of us watching preseason football as late as mid-October.

Just wait for the old guard at QB to retire and see what's taking their place besides Andrew Luck. Talk about an awful product which will be marketed like the best ever and people will buy into it by viewing. Not sure if they'll pay to go to the stadium though.
He's right  
old man : 3/24/2014 9:32 am : link
Same reason for NBA decline.
he's right for a number of reasons  
UConn4523 : 3/24/2014 9:40 am : link
we all know the NFL isn't dying out, but attendance will absolutely decrease with raising ticket prices (see baseball and the new stadiums that are built). TV contracts and more days of playing = more cash. Whatever they cannot accomplish will be added onto ticket prices, food prices, etc.

And then there's the watered down aspect of the game. 5,000 yards by 10 QB's a year isn't out of the questions in the near future. It's already boring to me and i'm certainly not the only one.

I can actually see TV ratings continue to climb with mega stadiums being huge financial blunders.
Do the NFL owners need more money?  
SalTony56 : 3/24/2014 9:43 am : link
YES!!! Many have over leveraged themelves to build these new stadiums, while dont forget Billion dollar settlements coming in the concussion cases.
As a 50 year fan of the NFL , I am not crazy about Thursday Night games as well as expanded Playoffs.While the Gamblers may love it there is a real posibility of over saturation of the product.
Nothing lasts forever  
Go Terps : 3/24/2014 9:44 am : link
I don't know if Cuban is right, but there is no law that says football has to be this big.

I do think they're killing the golden goose with the rule changes, Thursday night games, etc. Only a matter of time until they expand the schedule, expand the playoffs, and expand the league itself.
But it is the attendance  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 3/24/2014 10:23 am : link
The game has clearly, beyond argument, turned to an offensive, point scoring, touchdown dancing extravaganza. Ok. I can take it. And as someone above mentioned, it is geared to the twenty something age group. In my day, the advertisers were Cadillac and Dockers for the golf course. Now we get fried chicken fingers and the dollar menu.

The point: Can this target audience sustain filled stadiums all season long? The cost is a factor for a young person. The time away from the babies is a cost for these same young people. And the argument we all used for years is responded to by the following: "but you can watch it on TV just as well and for free".

The NFL, in my opinion, cannot totally ignore the older fan. But they are going in that direction. And the argument that the QB is a high percentage of the cap, while true, just begs the question about investment in backups. Those with a strong bench will survive.
There will be an effect  
ghost718 : 3/24/2014 10:43 am : link
Not saying your gonna see an episode of the Homeboy Shopping Network auctioning off the Metlife Jumbotron,but there will be those who have had enough.We're already at a point where fans spend a lot of time bitching about the game.Whether it's the rules,Goodell,or the prices.At the rate they are going,in 5-10 years it will only get worse.

Reason being is the NFL is going after penny in the street,and they don't care what it does to the game.When the money stops coming in,that's when they will change things up,but the damage may already be done.
RE: Cuban  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 1:36 pm : link
In comment 11583288 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
is an expert at ruestling jimmies as this thread proves.

And no the NBA isn't really relevant in this country at least. Its the one most likely to have fixed games, has a minor league system that's flawed at its very core and next to baseball, most likely has rampant PED use that goes ignored.


If its not relevant then we only have one major sport in this country

And its crazy how a sport that isn't relevant consistently produces the country's biggest sports stars, both in this country and globally. Every time a Harris poll does a list of the most popular athletes in the country, nba players own the list. Guys like Lebron and Kobe make more money in endorsements than the top 10 NFL players combined, even a guy like Peyton Manning couldn't hold their jockstraps.
I find it amusing how the NFL desperately wants to "improve the  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/24/2014 1:42 pm : link
at-the-game experience".

The two biggest changes they could make, alcohol management and ticket prices, they'll never touch, ever.

So they'll try nonsense like 'free wifi' and fantasy team state updates on the big screens.
Not bad for irrelevancy  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 1:48 pm : link
to be fair  
UConn4523 : 3/24/2014 1:51 pm : link
marketing isn't hard. Its a start driven league where games are 5 on 5 with no helmets. I wouldn't compare them at all, in fact.

But the NBA regular season is meaningless; the NFL regular season isn't. So that's as far as I'll go in comparing the two. Everything else is apples to oranges.
Yes because people don't know what Tom Brady  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 1:53 pm : link
or Peyton Manning look like, right? because of the helmets and all. come on now

The NFL is the most popular sport in the country, its not even close. But The NBA produces the country's biggest sports stars, and its not close either.
10 years isn't far away but there is lot working against the NFL.  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 3/24/2014 1:57 pm : link
The league is being watered down in an attempt to reach more audiences. Least common denominator effect. Pussification, concussions, international games, games every day of the week, fantasy football, costs and experience of going to a game. Its a trend that alienates the die hards which is never good.

I'm sure there was a time where baseball looked like it would rule supreme. Its naive. Humanity has an increasingly short attention span.

My fear is one day I will wake up 20 years or so from now and shit just won't be the same. With rules changes, lack of talent cause kid athletes are focusing on other sports, and the glory of a football sunday gone it just won't be the same.

I think Cuban might be onto something but I hope not
Man, I wish I knew how Kobe does it.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/24/2014 2:00 pm : link
I think he's even MORE popular outside the US than he is domestically. What other NBA player could get ads for Nutella and Emirates Airways besides maybe lebron?
the problem with the NFL isn't the league, it's the sport itself  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/24/2014 2:01 pm : link
the league will continue being the dominant sports league in America for the foreseeable future. All the head injuries and physicality of the sport is something that will make parents keep their kids from playing football. The sport will take a major hit because of this and once kids stop playing it as much the sport will eventually die like we're seeing with baseball.

But the NFL has such a monstrous lead over the MLB/NBA that they still have time to figure out how to save their sport. Eventually they will go the way boxing and baseball but it's still their reign right now.
TTH  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 2:03 pm : link
Guys like Lebron and Kobe are Gods in China, which has exponentially bigger population than we do here. Drop Tom Brady there no one has any clue who the fuck he is.

And Kobe is still making that bank after an assault charge. Now I don't think he did anything, but its amazing how he overcame that PR wise
Move the draft back to Sat/Sun  
Overseer : 3/24/2014 2:17 pm : link
and I'm in for another 3 decades. I'll sign a fucking contract stipulating as much, I don't care. Just put it back.

"The undersigned agrees to watch 50 NFL games a year and buy our stupid jerseys and beer coolers and all that shit and we'll put the draft back where it belongs instead of prime time Thursday like it's fucking Seinfeld."
Other than the league's existence hanging in the balance,  
Go Terps : 3/24/2014 2:23 pm : link
I'm not sure why it matters which sport is most popular. I'm sure there are many more people that would rather see Lebron James play in person than watch the Red Bulls or Rangers. As long as neither the NHL or MLS are in danger of dissolving though...I don't care. If anything the mass appeal of a sport only lends to homogenizing it and making it generally shittier.

Why does it matter how many people follow which sport? We're not seeing any of that money.
To be clear  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 2:36 pm : link
im not comparing the NBA and NFL. Im just shooting down the ridiculous notion of the NBA being irrelevant. Its well on its way to clear cut number 2 status in this country among the big 4. And its number 1 among that big 4 globally. It's the only sport we have that produces global icons. NFL players aren;t shit outside of this country
there is still a huge appetite for the NFL...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/24/2014 2:38 pm : link
There's a reason we hang out on bbi year round, and the NFL hasn't begun to tap that market correctly.

How many of you would pay $1000 or more for the right to digitally stream old NFL games, for example?
If we're talking about globally then you could add up all our sports  
Go Terps : 3/24/2014 2:40 pm : link
and they won't sniff soccer anyway.

None of it really matters because how do you define relevance? Where is the line between relevant and irrelevant?
Wherever you draw the line  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 2:53 pm : link
if the nba is on the wrong side of it, so is everything not named the NFL. And thats just talking about in the USA. Because globally the nba has a much bigger following than the nfl. And basketball in general trails only soccer globally
RE: Yes because people don't know what Tom Brady  
UConn4523 : 3/24/2014 3:15 pm : link
In comment 11584301 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
or Peyton Manning look like, right? because of the helmets and all. come on now

The NFL is the most popular sport in the country, its not even close. But The NBA produces the country's biggest sports stars, and its not close either.


I thought a select few would be obvious. Yes there are known NFL players, but you can make at statement at so many different positions that its hard to focus on a few big names like LeBron and Durant.
The reason for the difference in endorsement money  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 4:05 pm : link
is because guys like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are not a drop of piss in a bucket internationally compared to a Lebron or Kobe. Not because of helmets or roster sizes. Those guys are global brands. Those quarterbacks are American superstars
Carmelo Anthony  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 4:21 pm : link
made more money in endorsements last year than Tom Brady according to Forbes

Add up Peytons 12 mil, Brees 11 mil and Brady's 7 mil. And they *almost* add up to Kobe's 2013 off court earnings, and still fall 10+ mil shy of Lebron
Helmets are one component  
UConn4523 : 3/24/2014 4:26 pm : link
which can be a bit polarizing. Its mostly due to how easy it is to play basketball at any age, in any country, at any income level. No one cares about football cleats either. There are just a ton of reasons. And i'm not arguing the NBA isn't popular (someone else was), i'm saying that it can't be compared as apples to apples with the NFL.
Football hasn't been able to market individual stars...  
Dunedin81 : 3/24/2014 4:30 pm : link
especially well for awhile, in part because of injury, in part because outside of QBs even good players are just one of 22 starters and 50-odd roster players (versus 5 starters and 12 roster players for the NBA). Peyton comes across as something of a doofus, otherwise he might have been more successful
Theres really not a ton of reasons  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 4:31 pm : link
its almost strictly about global appeal and the nba players far wider reach than NFL players. NFL players barely register among the 95% of the worlds population that doesn't live in the United States

And we're only talking about guys at the top when it comes to endorsement money, so roster size is irrelevant. Left Tackles aren't getting big deals the same way the 4th best player on a given basketball team won't either. Its quarterbacks, select skill players, and nba superstars.
Wow,  
kmed : 3/24/2014 4:32 pm : link
who coulda seen this one going in this direction?
Found this interesting  
Tonyo33 : 3/24/2014 4:36 pm : link
Followers of each sport on Twitter:

NBA (@nba) - 9.66M
NFL (@nfl) - 6.12M
EPL (@premier league) - 4.1M
MLB (@mlb) - 3.49M
NHL (@nhl) - 2.33M

However, 8 of the top 10 athletes in terms of twitter followers are soccer players (Shaq and LeBron are the other two).

While I think Cuban is certainly trying to stir the pot, and maybe the game of football is more popular than its individual atheltes, I wouldn't dismiss his comments offhand. In the late 90's when McGuire and Sosa were having their home run race, it would have been hard to imagine the decline in poularity of the sport only 10-15 years later.
No shit NBA players are more popular internationally  
KooKoo4Giants : 3/24/2014 4:49 pm : link
We all understand that many players in the NBA are from international countries? Paul Gasol is a 'god' in spain and peyton manning could walk there and nobody wouldn't know him, no shit? Outside of perhaps only China, I bet the majority of international fans couldn't name most nba players outside of the very popular ones.
no shit Many NBA players are from international countries  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 5:22 pm : link
because of the nba and basketballs popularity there, not vice versa. This foreign explosion of talent didn't happen randomly, it is the culmination of decades of outreach and forward thinking by guys in charge of the league. Which has not only exponentially increased overseas popularity, but has drastically increased youth participation levels and led to guys like Pau and others like him pursuing this career
What's an international  
pjcas18 : 3/24/2014 5:31 pm : link
country?
well gee  
M in CT : 3/24/2014 6:42 pm : link
basketball is more popular than football globally. not really ground breaking information there.

but what in the blue fuck does that have to do with cuban's comment that the NFL will decline in popularity due to greed?

if you read the thread  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 6:46 pm : link
and still don't understand the context in which that was brought up, then im amazed you even figured out how to login and post here. Its not complicated
football isnt really overly popular anywhere but here  
Neverend : 3/24/2014 7:32 pm : link
its called american football for a reason. as a die hard nfl fan its good for the sake of the world. human bodies aren't designed for a game like this, its dangerous. then again its not like rugby is any more safe. but still, im glad its just an American thing. although from what I can tell from the internet, Russia has a pretty solid core of nfl fans



Another factor in  
River Mike : 3/24/2014 7:49 pm : link
the difference in popularity between NBA and NFL globally is the relative complexity of the games. Football is not easy to understand to a newcomer without educational resources, whereas the essence of basketball is easily understood by watching a few minutes of a game. Its the same with soccer. Yeah, yeah, I know all about the subtleties of the games, but their essence is readily apparent .. not so with football. One of the compelling features of football is the discrete plays that have a definite beginning and end, and at the conclusion of each play the circumstances of the game has changed and allows every fan to be a coach, deciding what should be done next. Complex and fascinating, not necessarily easy.
RE: if you read the thread  
M in CT : 3/24/2014 10:47 pm : link
In comment 11584935 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
and still don't understand the context in which that was brought up, then im amazed you even figured out how to login and post here. Its not complicated


oh, i read the thread, thanks. the "context" was that you tried to steer the conversation toward basketball for whatever reason. but your comments about the popularity of basketball have absolutely nothing to do with the issue that Cuban is pointing out (over-saturation of the football television market) or any of the other issues that others have pointed out pertaining to the potential decline in popularity of American football.

so, in other words, the two issues have absolutely nothing to do with each other, despite your effort to the contrary.
I didn't bring the nba up out of the blue  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 11:12 pm : link
i was responding to comments from mr nickels and bigbluecane, which similarly had nothing to do with Cubans comments. Just like your last couple of posts have nothing to do with Cubans comments. Thats what happens when discussion ensues, the thread can branch in many different places. Sorry if it overwhelmed or confused you
RE: I didn't bring the nba up out of the blue  
M in CT : 3/24/2014 11:16 pm : link
In comment 11585415 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
Sorry if it overwhelmed or confused you


ha, don't flatter yourself pal. you got your panties in a bunch that someone called the NBA "irrelevant" and proceeded to blow up the entire discussion. nice work as usual.
What does that comment  
MarshallOnMontana : 3/24/2014 11:19 pm : link
have to do with Cubans comments?
By greed, Cuban is clearly referring to the fact that the owners  
David in LA : 3/24/2014 11:24 pm : link
want to force some changes against the wish of the players union for the sake of profit. No player wants to play Thursday games, no player wants to expand teams into London, and no player wants to extend the season either. It's a brutally taxing sport, and basically the rich billionaires want to squeeze the players, and also render them into commodities, rather than treat them like actual human beings. NFL players should be sharing much more of that profit pie with owners. Instead, we are now in a league where RB's are seeing much less money, and it's really only worth your while if you're playing QB or elite at any of the other positions.
that's what  
M in CT : 3/24/2014 11:24 pm : link
happens when discussion ensues. the thread can branch in many different directions, particularly when one guy tries to derail it. sorry if you had trouble following the progression.
M in CT, by every single metric you can think of  
David in LA : 3/24/2014 11:25 pm : link
the NBA is a very clear cut #2. What are you so butthurt about, pal?
i don't deny that  
M in CT : 3/24/2014 11:31 pm : link
nor do i care.

the discussion about the NFL's popularity and business model was pretty interesting until the NBA's knight in shining armor got here.
Talent pool will contract with these rookie contracts being so limited  
mamamia : 3/24/2014 11:33 pm : link
and the NFL career being so short. It isn't worth it with the physical abuse short career and now the limited rookie deals. Owners are abusing the players with attempts at longer season Thursday night games and the fans forced to pay high ticket prices.

What is the NFL cap 135 million for 51ish players? Compared to baseball with a 25 man roster and 189 million cap and basketball with their 15 man roster has 59 million.NFL owners are getting a bargain while the players are getting crippled and ripped off outside of the QB's
So basically, you would have contributed nothing to this thread  
David in LA : 3/24/2014 11:33 pm : link
but felt the need to act super defensive, because someone else suggests something that goes against your opinion, but you also have zero metrics to stand behind your position…which explains your degree of butt-hurtedness.
nothing  
M in CT : 3/24/2014 11:37 pm : link
you just said makes any fucking sense.

have a good night, though.
Of course it didn't make sense  
David in LA : 3/24/2014 11:39 pm : link
you're too obtuse to contribute to this thread, in the first place. You should leave this discussion to the big boys that understand q-scores, tv ratings, attendance numbers, and off court sponsorship metrics.
LOL  
M in CT : 3/24/2014 11:44 pm : link
.
I wonder if and how much interest in  
mrvax : 3/24/2014 11:46 pm : link
High School football has tapered off. I doubt it. It's an American Pastime.

High School kids love their football and so do many parents and a lot of fellow students. Plus, jocks usually get the pick of the young ladies.

The NFL should stop this Thursday night crap and also stop making rules that totally favor the offense. Shit, they don't do that to soccer, do they? Worldwide, soccer is bigger than football.
RE: LOL  
David in LA : 3/24/2014 11:50 pm : link
In comment 11585459 M in CT said:
Quote:
.


Knowing you, it probably took expending every single brain cell to come up with that retort.
rrrrrrright  
M in CT : 3/24/2014 11:56 pm : link
just like you have an intimate knowledge of "off court sponsorship metrics" because you can read a fucking bar graph posted by your NBA butt buddy.
Well, that fucking bar graph  
David in LA : 3/25/2014 12:01 am : link
is a visual representation of compiled data. I'm sorry that you're too stupid to read bar graphs and come to your own conclusion.
oh  
M in CT : 3/25/2014 12:18 am : link
is that what a bar graph is? thanks, skippy.
People will learn soon enough to not give M in CT  
AnotherGiantsFan : 3/25/2014 12:32 am : link
the time of day. He is a hypersensitive, overly emotional poster that contributes nothing as far as civil discussions go. Even now you'll see instead of admitting defeat, he will dig in further and pretend like he's making a valid point. He's been banned before, and he'll get banned again. Just wait it out, fellas.
mark cuban  
giantfanboy : 3/25/2014 1:03 am : link
sorry i have ZERO respect for mark cuban

mark cuban is a poster child of the dot com bubble
he made his billions from building nothing lasting
zero..

Bringing up Basketball  
ForzaNapoli NYG : 3/25/2014 2:25 pm : link
and the rise / fall of other sports seemed relevant to the conversation in my eyes. I think there will always be a strong demand for sport and if the NFL's popularity is expected to decline then it is only natural to ask yourself what sport / product will rise to fill that demand.

While I don't see the NFL close to a collapse in the foreseeable future I do imagine that recent policy changes may indeed allow other sports like basketball and soccer to begin drawing more of the American sportsfans' attention.
I have  
Tonyo33 : 3/25/2014 3:41 pm : link
much more respoct for owners who simply inherited the teams from their parents than those who had to build up a company, an infrastructure, and convince someone to buy them.....

Here's a link to an article where Cuban explains his thought.
Cuban - ( New Window )
Back to the Corner