"At least 2" teams have Evans over Watkins

as it gets close to draft day.

Unfortunately unless one of those 2 teams actually picks Evans over Watkins we will never know if this is true or not:)

Would love if one of those teams picked before us and took Evans off the board!

evans is the best WR in the draft and i expect him to be a top 5 pick. he's on larry fitzgerald's level imo. we are talking about a really nasty football player here

how do you pass that up.

In comment 11583634 Curtis in VA said:

Quote:

how do you pass that up.

I agree. Watkins is clearly the top WR in the draft, but Evans is also a talent that I couldn't pass up.

.

Evans is NOT the best WR in this draft. Actually, I don't think he's the 2nd best WR either.

is a much better athlete Evans is, 40 time aside.

but it would be nice to have either for certain.

Too bad we are picking on Offensive Lineman with #12.

Did Watkins ever have games like Evans has against LSU, Missouri and Duke - all in a row.

Evans could not sniff getting open against either LSU or Missouri in man to man and being pressed off the line. Duke played zone against him and it drove him crazy.

Watkins caught passes against everyone and each defense.

How do you watch the 2 of these guys and think Evans is better.

.

I see everything I want in a WR except one thing. I see terrific ball skills, with him always winning jump balls and catching balls in traffic. I see fine speed. I see great height. I see that he knows how to use his bog body to shield defenders from the ball. I see he is great when plays break down working back to the QB and getting open.

but I do not see separation. and that's a big thing.

I don't know what to make of evans.

I'm not so sure anymore. Of course, the offensive line is a definite issue, but they can get an interior lineman in round 2 or 3 and I wouldn't be surprised if they signed a late FA or two.

A guy like Evans. I dunno man. You are rarely in position to pick up a talent like that. If it were me, I would probably take him.

Lee has become way too underrated. I would take Lee over Evans in a second.

but this report can be from 2 teams out of the top 10 that have no shot at Watkins. Who knows though, I'd never tell someone my strategy so its all kinda meaningless.

average size in a pass happy offense doesn't scream pick me at 12. Evans can change an offense if he pans out, and I don't think his floor is too low either.

the Giants do not have much of a red zone target right now.

in Lee's Junior year.

to Evans. Evans could either be a star in the league or a big bust but he whenever I hear questions of a WR having trouble getting off the line I get very concerned.

playmakers on offense & defense to go with the boring pick at #12 like a big O-lineman.

I am in the minority for sure on this board, but the sooner the better on getting the line fixed imo.

(but if Watkins was there at #12....oh baby)

Lee's 2013 made people forget how good he was in 2012. Between the injury and the QB situation last year, people got too down on him. If you flipped his 2012 and 2013, he's easily a top 10 pick.. maybe top 5 in this draft.

on this board.

Forget the combine. Watch the game tapes. Watch LSU...Watch the bowl game.

I'm an A&M graduate and have seen him live many times. He has the size and the combine proved he has the speed. It is a bit difficult for me to evaluate him and JF since I'm biased but no way is he on Watkins level. I wouldn't be disappointed if he was our pick but I like Lewan or Donald.

he can't beat press coverage?

this is the type of bullshit that has invaded the perception of mike evans on this mssg board. comical

I would love Donald also. There are so many options at #12 and the Giants always do well in the 1st round. We are definitely going to get a good player no matter what position they end up going with.

both Watkins and Evans will turn out to be very good players, but i would take Watkins over Evans without a doubt.

I don't have any doubts Watkins will be dominant

However i cant say the same for Evans, with the concerns of not being able to get separation in college, and he doesn't really seem to have any speed


Still in the end there are plenty of things to like about Evans and i would be 100% on board if giants draft him, but if Watkins were to slip to around pick 7 or 8 i would love for the giants to trade up and get him

I say take the top talent at a position of need where the talent pool is not so deep. DT, TE . While OT and WR are deep I think the talent drop off at OT is greater than at WR.

has produced at a very high level and fits perfectly with what the Giants/Eli like to do with the back shoulder throws, fades, jump balls and go routes.

What's not to like?

evans is a split end

I am not even sure if he is in the Top 5 WR's in this draft. Based on my own personal rankings:

1) Watkins
2) Cooks
3) Beckham Jr.
4) Matthews
5) Lee (tie)
5) Benjamin (tie)

There is a decent difference between 1 and 2 and a smaller difference between 4 and 5

I see more people wanting to avoid him at #12

I think the idea of adding a big body WR target to this offense is an idea most can certainly appreciate. (Talk of Ebron included there).

Redzone threat and somebody with the size to win one on ones, forcing teams to double him and affording Cruz & Randle more one on one match ups. That sounds good to me.

My ideal scenario is trading back a bit to get an extra 2nd or 3rd(very good Oline & Dline to be had here) and still grabbing Kelvin Benjamin in the 1st round.

In comment 11583743 chrispisano66 said:

Quote:

has produced at a very high level and fits perfectly with what the Giants/Eli like to do with the back shoulder throws, fades, jump balls and go routes. What's not to like?

What's not to like? Easy, he cannot get separation. He struggled against college CB's in that regard and it will be worse in the NFL. His route running his poor and he lets DB's get into his body so the only way to get him the ball will be in positions where he cannot do anything after the catch. You are looking at the next Joe Jurevicius/Reggie Williams not the next Vincent Jackson/Brandon Marshall

Who stopped him - knee injury and lousy freshman QB.

The guy is an exceptional route runner. He can get off the line. For all the talk of Evans using his body and fighting for balls, Lee seemed to go over the middle way more often than Evans did.

The knee is a major question to draft at 12, but 191 catches and 21 TD's in his first 25 games @ USC before a freshamn QB is as good as it gets and hard to ignore

Size, speed and strength are not.

We'll see.

In comment 11583665 stretch234 said:

Quote:

Did Watkins ever have games like Evans has against LSU, Missouri and Duke - all in a row. Evans could not sniff getting open against either LSU or Missouri in man to man and being pressed off the line. Duke played zone against him and it drove him crazy. Watkins caught passes against everyone and each defense. How do you watch the 2 of these guys and think Evans is better.

Yeah, those games are a concern. Somebody also mentioned separation. There is also the fact that so much of the A&M offense had a schoolyard/playground feel because of Manziel's scrambling.

I wouldn't rate him above Watkins. But it's irrelevant because Evans is not going before Watkins. Would I be upset if the Giants took Evans? No, because he has a lot of the size, etc. they look for in outside WRs.

I think it will come down to Evans or Ebron, but an interesting scenario is what happens if both are off the board. Most people here want Donald, even if both are on the board. That will only increase if both are gone.

In this order, I think it's:

Ebron.
Evans.
Barr.
Donald.

if a WR is clearly better than every other position when time comes to draft pull the trigger.

We saw this year how useless WRs can be when the is no protection. I'd prefer fixing everything else on O before worrying about getting a playmaker at WR. I like Randle and Jernigen and Cruz is the man. Adding a vet WR or a guy in a later round should add enough depth to the position.

but I cannot see taking him at 12 with his suspected flaws.

Separation is critical for a WR. It's what make Ramses Barden what he is today.

In comment 11583765 chrispisano66 said:

Quote:

Size, speed and strength are not. We'll see.

Tell that to Ramses Barden

this offense needs more offensive fire power?

In comment 11583817 AnishPatel said:

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this offense needs more offensive fire power?

The offense definitely needs more firepower but it needs a lot of things. And firepower can be negated by an offense that isn't physical enough. Right now I don't think the offense is physical enough. A TE could add physicality and firepower at the same time. But above all else the OL must be fixed or it really doesn't matter what the offense has.

In comment 11583715 Mark from Jersey said:

Quote:

on this board. Forget the combine. Watch the game tapes. Watch LSU...Watch the bowl game.

So you can pick out games he wasn't a beast in. Man you are awesome. Go look at Auburn, Alabama, and Arkansas, or don't since it would totally throw off your assessment.

Mike Evans to Ramses Barden?

means we won't have to spend big money on one if they pan out. It's probably the #1 reason I can see us taking Evans if he's there (in addition to a nightmare matchup in the RedZone).

If we don't value any OLinemen at 12, then I'd be thrilled with Evans.

In comment 11583839 chrispisano66 said:

Quote:

Mike Evans to Ramses Barden?

We're easily traumatized.

In comment 11583836 Giants Fan in Steelers Land said:

Quote:

In comment 11583817 AnishPatel said: Quote: this offense needs more offensive fire power? The offense definitely needs more firepower but it needs a lot of things. And firepower can be negated by an offense that isn't physical enough. Right now I don't think the offense is physical enough. A TE could add physicality and firepower at the same time. But above all else the OL must be fixed or it really doesn't matter what the offense has.

I agree. However, my point for the question, is that when the OL, in their small limited moments did pass block okay for the ball to come out it was still a shit show.

Nicks giving up on a slant. RR flashing but in the same game would be running god knows what, while the ball would be thrown to no one but opposing uniforms. Murphy couldn't run a 5 yard hitch without drafting and getting his QB picked off. The TE corps useless.

Sure the OL was a HUGE issue and needs to be upgraded still, but our fire power sucks. Cruz iz coming back from a knee. RR flashes but not sure how he would do as an X. JJ is a question mark. Mario's knee I wouldn't rely on. The TE is now empty and we have 1 RB with the other a question mark from a neck.

That's pretty damn bad all around.

Thomas the fucking train engine bringing the stupid on a daily basis.

Any more insights from the Giants camp, you fucking tool?

In comment 11583839 chrispisano66 said:

Quote:

Mike Evans to Ramses Barden?

If the shoe fits...

I picked out the LSU game first because he played against 2 freshman press corners and could not get off the LOS. Where was his fight to do that there. WTF did he do the next week facing the same press defense - nothing.

Duke has no one on the defensive side of the ball remotely equal in talent to him - they played a zone against him and he did nothing. What routes did he run in that game

How much of what he does is attributed to Manziel buying time for him. This is the 12th pick in the draft, not late 1st or second. There is plenty to note about this guy being questioned as a true No 1 receiver.

He has ability, I just don't think he is a guy you get at 12. I would take the TE at 12 before him just because NFL defenses don't cover the TE.

he had a couple bad games. Calvin Johnson had a number of bad games his senior year, it happens.

And if you watch Evans a ton of his passes were jump balls which is why I like him. Manziel did buy time, but Evans also made him look goo; it works both ways. He had 3 absolute monster games, ones that I watched and were very impressed by.

But i'm no scout, so if there are problems I'm willing to bet TC/McAdoo will see right away. If they pick him at 12, obviously they don't have concerns about his ability to get off of the line (a blown out of proportion BBI cliche).

The shoe doesn't fit.

In comment 11583890 Curtis in VA said:

Quote:

The shoe doesn't fit.

Maybe, maybe not, but there have been an awful lot of touted, college star "big" WRs who just couldn't make it in the NFL for various reasons. Roy Williams, Dwayne Jarrett, Mike Williams, to name a small few.

We are talking about the #12 overall pick. That's lofty expectations. Just being a guy that holds down career isn't a successful pick.

if Watkins is there at 12, either way I think Evans will be there. But we are taking Ebron...draft is deep at WR.

If Watkins is gone, I would consider Evans, but Ebron is going to be the pick.

I wont be mad if we take Evans, but Ebron makes sense.

Eli just needs a nice stable of Wr's , McAdoo wants a speedy stable rathetr then a 1, 2 and a slot guy.

Cruz, Randle, Manningham, Jernigan, Rookie(No way Watkins is there, Evans , or we could take a WR in Rd 3) I pretty sure Ebron is 90% going to be the pick.

So figure Eli has Cruz, Randle, Manningham, Jordan Matthews(rookie rd3) Jernigan, and Ebron as targets. That will be fine by me

If you want a Torrey Smith type you pick Watkins.
If you are looking for Vincent Jackson, pick Evans.
Dez Bryant type, Benjermin.
Reggie Wayne, Pick Lee.

Of course these guys may or may not be better then their comparsion. But this is the style of player they are.

LMAO....i don't know what your looking at. Fitz is one of the greatest wides to ever play the game. One of the greatest high point receivers I've ever seen. hands like velcra and can adjust to any ball and run every route. Evans isn't nearly in his class and is most similar to Vincent Jackson.
Watkins is far and away the best WR in this draft. He can beat you underneath or over the top and turns into a RB once he catches the ball. I love the kid. Evans as has been noted is a stiff athelete.

in all-purpose yards.
Is that a tie breaker?

more like Percy Harvin, DeSean Jackson, or Manningham, Tavon Austin. They're all great after the catch but they all have inconsistent hands.

But Evans can still be a very good player. I like both of them but it's just a no contest in favor of Watkins for me.

In comment 11584161 BloodlustRevenge said:

Quote:

more like Percy Harvin, DeSean Jackson, or Manningham, Tavon Austin. They're all great after the catch but they all have inconsistent hands.

Lee isn't really anything like those guys.

.

than Evans, Evans is just a much bigger target.

He is not Vincent Jackson. Jackson was a No 1 vertical deep threat due to his speed. He was a 4.4 guy at 240lbs. Evans is not that.

Jackson has avg 17.4 ypc on 422 catches. There are only 23 guys in NFL history better than that.

I have not heard of Evans being mentioned as that type of player.

With Evans it all about being viewed as the 12th overall pick. How much better is he than some other of the WR down the line if he is not a true 1

WR Cody Latimer, 6-2, 215, did not work out at the Combine (except for the BP, where he led all WRs with 23 reps), because he was still rehabbing from a broken bone in his foot. He's supposed to run at his Pro Day, though.

From DraftNasty:

Quote:

He's a raw, strong wide receiver with tremendous body control and leaping ability on the field. He times passes along the sidelines with excellent body dexterity, and he's capable of out-muscling upper-tier cornerbacks one-on-one in the Red Zone. An apt NFL comparison would be Kansas City Chiefs wide receiver Dwayne Bowe.

He's a lot closer to those receivers than Reggie wayne

how does he compare to say, Keyshawn?

In comment 11584434 BloodlustRevenge said:

Quote:

He's a lot closer to those receivers than Reggie wayne

He's really not, though. He's got about 20 lbs on both Jackson and Austin. Those are guys you either go deep down the field with or get the ball to quick on bubble screens. Those types of guys aren't catching many intermediate routes over the middle of the field. Lee did that a lot at USC. I think Wayne is a really good comp for him.

Watch his games vs Syracuse, Arizona, UCLA, Notre Dame '12....Bubble screens or downfield. He looks more like the players I mentioned, ESPECIALLY, Manningham

In comment 11584436 Csonka said:

Quote:

how does he compare to say, Keyshawn?

I have no idea, but if you can get Keyshawn at #12 do you do it?

if he was there @12 and I was making the pick he'd be it. That is barring some kind of miracle....such as Watkins still being available.

Sammy separates himself from the pack with his very rare instant acceleration, fluid yet sudden cuts, fantastic hands and elusive open field skills. He's the clear #1 WR in this draft.

That said for me Evans is the clear #2 WR in this draft and it's not that close imo.

Only 3.5% of the passes Lee caught were 20+ yards downfield. Lee caught a higher % of 6-10 yard passes than Watkins, Evans or Benjamin. Same with 1-5 yard passes. More than half the passes Watkins caught were screens.

Lee is a guy who catches a ton of short/intermediate passes. The guys you're talking about really aren't like that. Jackson catches way more balls downfield and is more of a factor in the screen game. StL lined Austin up at RB a few times and tried to do different things with him. Lee is bigger than these guys.. he out weighs those two by like 20 lbs each.. his skillset is a bit different.

Lee also caught more balls between 11-20 yards than Watkins or Evans. Only Benjamin had a higher percentage there. Lee did like 75% of his damage between 1-20 yards. He's a lot more like Reggie Wayne than you think.

But I do see the Mario Manningham comp, although Lee is more polished. I do not see the hands and toughness of Reggie Wayne. If we want to talk about former Giants WR's he reminds me of Ike Hilliard

OK..watch his 2012 games again and tell me if you come up with the same numbers.

Ebron or Evans is a complete player. Neither is Donald. Or Barr. Absent a trade down, one of these guys will likely be a Giant in 45 days. Everybody has warts.

I like Donald best, but he isn't the type of DT the Giants usually target. They might overlook his size because of his production, but somebody like DaQuan Jones is more their style at DT. Jay Bromely, a poor man's AD who they interviewed, should also be available on day three.

Barr blew it away at his pro day, so he'll probably be gone by #12.

That leaves Evans and Ebron. With Evans, it's about speed and separation ability. With Ebron it's about blocking. Between the two, I'd lean towards Ebron because the draft is deeper at WR than TE, and we have nothing at that position. But the Giants may feel that Evans plus a blocking TE is better than Ebron and a later WR. The still weak OL may also increase the need for a blocking TE.

I think it will be either Evans or Ebron. I'd be fine with either. But if, or more likely when, we pass on Donald for either of these two, BBI will surely meltdown.

in this draft?

Have you ever worked as a scout? What are you basing that on? Both serious questions.

Out of 32 NFL GMs/scouts that dissect this stuff 24/7, I'd highly doubt you'd find any without Mike Evans in the top 2-4, let alone 5. You could be proven right down the line but the odds are against it.

Draft Evans. To the OP, bullshit gets spread thick this time of year among the draft rumors.

Tavon Austin, Harvin, and Desean Jackson are all burners. Screens, quick slants, or downfield. Manningham and Lee aren't as fast as those guys but they're both quick as hell and they're both very creative in the open field.

In comment 11584559 BloodlustRevenge said:

Quote:

OK..watch his 2012 games again and tell me if you come up with the same numbers.

They were charted out, I didn't record the numbers myself. If you don't believe me, here they are.



Here, you can see that Lee caught a TON of balls on In/Out and comeback routes..



You keep saying Lee was a screen or downfield guy, yet those were the 2 places he was least utilized.

...I never said he was very effective downfield. But they sent him out on a lot of go routes. That's why I keep telling you to watch those games again.

is a big reason why I like him. He's perfect for a QB like Eli.

In comment 11584621 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

is a big reason why I like him. He's perfect for a QB like Eli.

He's a perfect fit for the TC/Gilbride system. We don't know what type of WRs are the ideal fit for the TC/McAdoo system yet.

In comment 11584618 BloodlustRevenge said:

Quote:

...I never said he was very effective downfield. But they sent him out on a lot of go routes. That's why I keep telling you to watch those games again.

Unless they were using their best WR as a decoy, the numbers don't seem to support that.. unless you believe that he dropped like 20 passes on Go routes. He did drop a few and he only caught a small amt but he didn't have many targets deep down field. He's not that type of guy.

Were caught within 10 yards. And I'd argue that...it's more like 7 yards

No...he was covered on some of them, qb over/under throws, PI on some of them...doesn't have to be all drops

In comment 11584642 BloodlustRevenge said:

Quote:

Were caught within 10 yards. And I'd argue that...it's more like 7 yards

Huh? What about the 21%+ he caught between 11-20 yards?

In comment 11584629 GIANTSr01 said:

Quote:

In comment 11584621 UConn4523 said: Quote: is a big reason why I like him. He's perfect for a QB like Eli. He's a perfect fit for the TC/Gilbride system. We don't know what type of WRs are the ideal fit for the TC/McAdoo system yet.

We will if we take Evans.

There was an article posted by the beat writers suggesting if there is a disconnect between the coaching staff and front office in the players we are drafting and the system we run. Like drafting a H back type in beckum, when we don't utilize TEs of that size, since 6'4-6'7 256-275 is the range we tend to like as a two way TE. We signed a WCO TE in Myers who flopped here. An Rb who didn't have to pass block as much and stick him in a system where we run a lot of 5 and 7 step drop concepts, so pass blocking is very important. That RB struggled big time.

So if we draft Evans all that means is that Ross and Reese see him as someone that could be good for us. I don't think that reflects on the system.

Some people seem pretty sure of themselves.

I don't know how any of these guys will pan out, but Evans did just put up almost 1400 yards in 13 games against mainly SEC competition. Sure he had a couple of bad games, but 1400 yards is 1400 yards. I mean...I guess he could've gone for 1700 yards if he had all good games, but that seems like a pretty high bar.

like Mike Evans.

In comment 11583855 kickerpa16 said:

Quote:

Thomas the fucking train engine bringing the stupid on a daily basis. Any more insights from the Giants camp, you fucking tool?

Heh. Nail, hammer head.

where are you getting those numbers?

Donte Moncrief in the 2nd instead of Evans in the 1st

You know Eli would like that one

it's more like 75% under 10 yards and 25 on intermediate and deep routes

manningham in that downfield he tries to over the shoulder every catch. he needs to high point the ball instead of waiting for it to drop into his body. hes a body catcher too often for my taste and that leads to a lot of drops and cornerbacks making the play because in the nfl, when you have to slow down for a deep pass, you HAVE to catch it with your hands otherwise the DB will bat it away.

Lee definitely has the ability to pluck the ball out of the air, but that's a very difficult thing to change in the nfl. some guys like Watkins and davante adams have the 'it' factor when it comes to hands. marquise lee has the opposite.

Everything else about him from his speed, body control, his ability on breaking routes which is far superior to mike evans in every way, the things he does after the catch, hes a dynamic talent otherwise but I think he'll be a really inconsistent guy in the league.

In comment 11584685 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

There was an article posted by the beat writers suggesting if there is a disconnect between the coaching staff and front office in the players we are drafting and the system we run. Like drafting a H back type in beckum, when we don't utilize TEs of that size, since 6'4-6'7 256-275 is the range we tend to like as a two way TE. We signed a WCO TE in Myers who flopped here. An Rb who didn't have to pass block as much and stick him in a system where we run a lot of 5 and 7 step drop concepts, so pass blocking is very important. That RB struggled big time. So if we draft Evans all that means is that Ross and Reese see him as someone that could be good for us. I don't think that reflects on the system.

I'm not sure I understand, why would we take a guy that we can't work into our system? If we take Evans, it means we think he can fit into our system. We wouldn't waste a premium pick on a guy that might work in out new offense.

Watkins is a once-a-decade and maybe a once-in-a-generation type player. He is the next Steve Smith. Compare their highlights. Smith first …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iLBgqdDkck

Now Watkins, a lot of the same stuff ….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkNvLP-WI5g

Nobody in their right mind is not going to rate him the very best player in this draft.

Player in this draft. He doesn't suck but he's no sure thing and he'd be lucky to be anything higher that the 4th WR once the season starts. I'd like to get more out of that pick

people are overlooking the type of incredible talent Watkins is. If anyone has the nerve to compare him to the likes of cordarrelle Patterson or percy harvin they need to get their heads slapped to slap off their ignorance and look at the highlights

he has that same exact jump ball ability steve smith has. even dez Bryant as well. that ability to high point the ball while maintaining an incredible short term burst of tremendous balance and body contorting skills in the air. his famous catch against ohio state is perfect proof of that. you may say Watkins isn't 6'6 and doesn't have the catching radius evans has, but he shows elite explosiveness and strength at the point of the catch. and frankly, since he'll be running by most corners in the nfl with good separation, he should be able to maximize high passes when he has slow to down and adjust to it. (he extends and plucks practically every single catch, its incredible)

He is every bit worthy of trading up if its just a 2 and say a 5. He isn't a fineese kick return guy. This guy is going to be a top 5 nfl wide receiver. Just think about it, only marshall faulk, Adrian Peterson, and herschell walker had the freshman season he had.

The more and more i want the giants to trade up and get him

In comment 11583711 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Lee's 2013 made people forget how good he was in 2012. Between the injury and the QB situation last year, people got too down on him. If you flipped his 2012 and 2013, he's easily a top 10 pick.. maybe top 5 in this draft.

Exactly. AS long as he stays healthy this kid is just about a cant miss prospect and NFL ready as they come. Love Evans upside but I think Lee is going to be a great one right there with Watkins.

In comment 11583728 GGGmen said:

Quote:

I'm an A&M graduate and have seen him live many times. He has the size and the combine proved he has the speed. It is a bit difficult for me to evaluate him and JF since I'm biased but no way is he on Watkins level. I wouldn't be disappointed if he was our pick but I like Lewan or Donald.

I thought I was the only Aggie that was also a huge Giants fan. While I agree that there is risk with Evans mostly due to questions about getting separation from corners, I do think Comparing him to Fitzgerald is fair. clearly he would have to do a lot to live up to that and probably won't by I do think the Giants would be very lucky to get him. I think he has more heart and probably more talent than Burress. The guy is still not far removed from playing football for the first time.