If you follow all the talk on BBI, we hear how great an asst. coach Flaherty is. I have a challenge to this.
When a team has the worst offensive line in football, the line coach cannot get a free pass. I won't blame him for all of it but he does deserve some of the responsibility in my opinion. Injuries are the biggest cause but it is the lack of quality backups that bother me. His input to Reese and Coughlin have to be heard. He should fully understand the capabilities of Brewer, Mosely, Boothe and the rest of the line.
If part of his job is to develop the young talent of those on the bench, he failed. Again, I don't blame him for a broken leg or bad hip but I do for the utter crap we put on the field when the injuries did occur.
You can't really know where the fault lies here... either a) we drafted players with issues ( talent, work ethic something ) or b) coaching is not getting it done...
or a combination of both...
its hard to say... but there is certainly a disconnect ... and i am quite shocked our OL free agent signings look as they do.
Certainly hope the draft makes things better but drafting OL in 1-2 rounds is not going to happen.
coaches work with what they are given. I'm sure their input is considered, but thye work with who they are guiven at the end of the day. Yu may argue the OL sucked, but he may say someone like Kevin Boothe overachieved for a few years because of his direction. It's really hard to tell these things, but his entire body of work is pretty fantastic, despite the bumps the last few years.
we drafted Beaty in the 2nd and Pugh in the 1st and haven't spent a premium pick on an O line other than those two in a long time. I suspect they much think highly of flaherty if they think they can get by with these late round projects that just aren't very good vs being unable to be coached up.
for the typo's. My computer is acting out today.
a very good coach that has 2 Super Bowl lines to being a stiff
How is it that the one we cut (Matt McCants or whatever his name is) ends up a starter in Oakland.
Are Brewer, Mosley, Goodin, etc. better or aren't they?
your criticism of Flaherty. He was brought in by TC at the very beginning in 2004. Believe he had a bout with cancer prior or during his tenure. His resume was not that impressive when he was hired, you can check it. He has not received any criticism for the decline or performance of the OL. Think he is one of TC guys and thats the way it is. Mara knows all this and that is that.
Nobody used the word stiff or meant anything of the sort. But he's been talked about as a deity around here.
It is merely a question mark that should be analyzed. If he realized that he had inferior calibre material he should have been more vocal. If he was more vocal then Tom and/or Jerry should be brought to task.
Hey, any way you slice it, last in the league is not good. All aspects of the problem should be reviewed. Certainly the Line Coach should be in the discussion. Don't you agree?
I think it is hard to evaluate Flahrety as a coach from an external perspective.
A lot of the issues with the Oline have been due to players getting older as well as injuries. I don't think you can put that on the Oline coach.
When we hired Flahrety, the Oline was a mess and Flahrety has largely been able to consistently put up solid offensive lines without the premium investment in picks and talent. The Oline was good enough to win a pair of SB rings.
In the ten years under Flahrety we have had guys like Snee, Beatty Pugh and signed McKenzie, but we also have had solid performances from guys like O'Hara, Seubert, Diehl, Boothe, Locklear etc.
Thinking about it more, we have had a solid set of lineman together for a long time, more than anything our issues have been a result of not developing young guys behind them. We have drafted guys but they haven't developed.
I guess the flip side is that our discards like Whimper and McCants have been able to contribute elsewhere.
I do also think there has been a disjoint between the guys we have drafted and the mauler style of linemen we need for our power running game under Coughlin.
That he has been trying to tell them and they did not respond to his warning, you want to point a figure, point it where it belongs, Jerry Reese, and since the OLine is broke and we all know it, what has he done this off season to fix it. There were more options at guard, some at tackle, and still some at center, yet we can all agree that the OLine does not look fixed, is this Flaherty fault? He does not pick the players, and if you think he does then you are dead wrong, he HELPS evaluate the offensive line players, by grade, HELPS, that falls on Coughlin to put in the evaluations. Bottom line a position coach can only work with what management gives him, and they gave him shit last season.
reason why I shouldn't fire you?"
Pat looks TC in the eye and answers, "I'm better than Quinn." TC sighs and says, "Don't be late for today's meeting."
It seems to me he's earned his rep based on his history of taking undervalued, unsung guys like Diehl, Seubert, and Shaun O'hara and molding them into solid if not spectacular starting caliber players. Even Boothe became a serviceable starter until the wheels started falling off last year when he was bounced around the line. Not sure what's changed recently that the newest generation of "projects" hasn't panned out, but you can't knock Flaherty based on his overall track record.
I hope we will draft players who already play their positions well. We need more Pughs. We can't afford not to play rookies, since we've done about all we seem to be doing in free agency.
You weren't complaining in 2008 when the Giants were running over people (200+ yards rushing against the Ravens that year).
In comment 11584952
| It seems to me he's earned his rep based on his history of taking undervalued, unsung guys like Diehl, Seubert, and Shaun O'hara and molding them into solid if not spectacular starting caliber players. Even Boothe became a serviceable starter until the wheels started falling off last year when he was bounced around the line. Not sure what's changed recently that the newest generation of "projects" hasn't panned out, but you can't knock Flaherty based on his overall track record.
If so, they why hasn't he worked magic on the previous depth guys? This team has not convincingly ran the ball in many years. You can look at the rushing stats drop off a cliff a few years back and never bounce back. That's some great coaching there.
and then tell me Flaherty is to blame. Look, the OL-guys they drafted in the mid-rounds recently simply were not good enough. I think Acorsi did a better job drafting offensive linemen. Link
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Flaherty? We have no idea, if he told Reese about the shortcomings of this OL, and it's backups.....it's hard to believe he didn't go to Reese, more than a year ago about rebuilding the line.....the fact he is still here, tells me Reese had other priorities, and told him to do the best he could with what he's got.....
How do you feel about Gilbride, Jr., replacing Pope? He was a legend also, around here.....Yet he was released...did he over rate Robinson and Donnell, and more importantly Meyers, to Reese? Hard to believe he is more qualified...
not by slapping several individuals together. The Giants have been changing the OL every single year the last few years. You are not going to get cohesion and effectiveness doing that..
The Giants had SIX different starting lines this year.. and some of those players like Snee, Baas and Diehl were playing hurt.. and not just a little hurt.. badly hurt..
They have not restocked the line well over the years with QUALITY picks.. sure they have picked OL.. but they havent invested the higher picks to get better talent..
we have wasted those picks on studs like Sintim.. Barden.. Austin.. Beckum.. Dillard..
You cannot turn crap into gold..