The only knock ive heard on Donald is lack of girth,
but he will probably fill out to 310 pound defensive tackle.
I believe he is special and a great need for our team.--He also put up 32 benches at combine.
This is a huge need for the Giants and drafting Donald makes our uncertain DL much stronger and quicker.
I don't like Ebron at all ar 12 nor do I want any part of Lewan------Unless Jake Matthews falls Donald is the safest pick and potentially a super star
JPP, Hankins, Donald and Moore would be a scary D Line.
Donald just looks like a guy that's as strong as an ox. He doesn't look like he's used PEDs. I mentioned this because it's pretty strange that he's that damn strong. There maybe 5 young men his age in the country with his power.
Among the 3 biggest needs I listed, it’s also pretty easy to make the case which of the 3 is the most vital to a team’s success…just look at the recent SB winners (including us). Also, we just spent all this money a nice, shiny secondary, doesn’t it make sense to compliment them a bit?
Tuck had some pretty good rushing ability (when healthy) from the DT spot.
If Donald were a couple inches taller and 10 lbs heavier he could be the #1 pick in this loaded draft. I want this kid bad. A healthy JPP with this kid alongside him.....woah. we lost 2 major contributors on the DL. Although I really want to replenish the offense in round 1 : Donald, Mack and Clowney Id make an exception for.
Did Donald have a great career at Pitt absolutely...has his post season been outstanding..again without a doubt. He's a rare athlete. The fact remains at his position size matters and it's a weakness to consider. Some players by nature of their physique will always be better college players than pros.
Is that the case with Aaron Donald?...I don't know but it's at the heart of the debate surrounding this young mans prospects in the draft.
We.know.plenty of.workout warriors with little production.that fizzled.out but how many elite production, elite workout and maybe even top notch shrine/senior bowl performers do.you know.that DIDNT translate.to the.NFL not due to injury?
He will likely have a more productive career than even Clowney who turns his play on/off. Donald is a machine. A very powerful machine.
Go ahead and drop back to pass. See what happens next. If our Giants don't land him, it will still be very interesting to closely follow his NFL career and kick ourselves in the ass every week for the next 10 years.
Got any links to video or articles on this?
Thanks.
He will likely have a more productive career than even Clowney who turns his play on/off. Donald is a machine. A very powerful machine.
Go ahead and drop back to pass. See what happens next. If our Giants don't land him, it will still be very interesting to closely follow his NFL career and kick ourselves in the ass every week for the next 10 years.
A few weeks.ago Marqise Lee was my main squeeze at 12 , I want Donald. I.honestly think.this.kid.will have a Warren Sapp/John Randle.impact for.a.defense. Add that to a healthy JPP, watch out.
Quote:
he was pushed around in the running game also, people want to ignore that fact
Can you point me to the tape of him being pushed around in the running game? I haven't been able to find any. Last week a couple of his games were singled out as evidence of his being mauled by large inferior linemen, namely against U of Miami and FSU. I watched both games and saw him play extremely well. What FSU did well was they changed things up throughout the game. At first they moved the pocket away from Donald for pretty much the entire first quarter. Then they tried to set up in the pocket and Donald started to take over the game with consistent pressure, just missing out on two sacks and two safeties as well. After that they double teamed him constantly,and I'm not talking about a chip block, I'm talking full time center and guard, with the back ready for the few times he was able to get through the two.
I've watched a ton of film and I have seen him neutralized but have not seen him pushed around or driven backwards. Even against double teams with much larger guards he does not get driven backwards, so I'm not sure what you are seeing.
Watch the Florida State game here:
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/aaron-donald-vs-florida-state-2013/
I still want him,but this game he got run on.
Quote:
In college he got pushed around against the run...
Got any links to video or articles on this?
Thanks.
mrvax - thanks for continuing to ask the question of those with this criticism. Their silence is deafening. I've only heard a couple cite games, yet those games do NOT appear to show him being pushed around. Most of the time these critics simply state that he gets pushed around without any video evidence of the same.
I think they just repeat what they've read, not what they've seen.
A funny thing about Donald: his criticisms come from his insane production. In the few instances that his production dropped critics seem to say that he can be "pushed around". On tape though he looks more dominant in those games than Linval Joseph EVER did for us.
People seem to forget because of his insane production that production from the DT position is typically very limited. Teams ask a lot from their DT's, and it is often a position where 2-3 tackles a game is pretty good. Linval averaged less than 4 tackles a game.
In Donald's "WORST" games he still took on double teams consistently without giving ground, created multiple pressures throughout, disrupted a minimum of 4-5 plays in the backfield while being double-teamed, and still had 2-3 tackles and another 1-2 hits on the quarterback. These are the games that he's being "pushed around".
Come on all you Donald doubters - which are the games that we need to watch to see him being pushed around? I can accept that he's too small to succeed if I see any evidence of it on the playing field, but not just because he's lighter than most DT's with his strength.
As I watch I'll create a commentary about what I see and would love to discuss it afterwards.
As a precursor I'll say this - keep in mind that FSU was the #2 offense in the country - considering the level of competition the argument could be made that they were the top offensive team in the country so this needs to be taken into consideration.
Again - thanks for citing a game and I'll be back to you soon with my thoughts.
Great! They have to put multiple blockers on him. Good. Let JPP/Moore/Kiwi or Hankins finish the runner off.
They continue with:
I cannot find anywhere showing or explaining Aaron Donald getting "pushed around against the run". Love how his BBI critics just make this shit up.
SB Nation Review: Donald - ( New Window )
And the FSU game is an appropriate level of competition to put him against to measure up against NFL guards/centers.
Solid, solid DT. He is going to make some team very happy that they have his motor and skill set.
Too bad we have a broken offense to fix...
No player no matter how good is going to play dominantly 100% of the time.
But if you look unbiasedly at the overall percentage of great play vs. otherwise, it is overwhelmingly positive.
This guy is going to be a monster at the next level.
And the FSU game is an appropriate level of competition to put him against to measure up against NFL guards/centers.
Solid, solid DT. He is going to make some team very happy that they have his motor and skill set.
Too bad we have a broken offense to fix...
Even if you want to nitpick him to death, he was their entire line. ALL the attention was on him with double and sometime triple teams. Imagine him with a healthy JPP and emerging Moore and Hankins?
That alone should tell you something. How often do teams consistently assign 2 blockers to any defensive lineman on the Giants since LT? Imagine how helpful that would be to the other 3 guys on the line? Someone should be able to tee off on any down. That's also a huge advantage if the Giants blitz.
Here's the first quarter, every snap:
First snap - short pass over the middle - shotgun snap by my count just over two seconds between snap and throw no pressure from Donald.
Second snap - line slides right, Donald easily shoots the gap and penetrates the backfield, QB rolls out naked bootleg. Clearly a design play to move the pocket. We’ve seen teams do this all the time against the Giants when they are trying to slow down our pass rush.
Third snap - Donald lines up just left of center - engaged by blocker*** - holds his position nicely, is NOT driven backwards. No linebackers step up - Donald sheds the block and engages the runner***** at exactly .5 yards beyond the LOS - he solo attempts to bring him down (while still being blocked) runner pushes forward and help arrives at 2 yards beyond the LOS, unfortunately for Donald the linebacker literally bounces off the runner and with Donald barely hanging on other blockers arrive and push the pile forward until the runner goes down with a six yard gain. This could be what critics call an example of him being pushed around but I don’t see it. Again - he held the point very nicely, shed the block in time to engage the runner at the LOS but had zero support behind him in bringing down the runner.
*** A note on the blocker - Tre Jackson, who is as big as any NFL guard Donald is likely to face (listed at 6’4” 339 pounds but looks even heavier), is no slouch - as a junior winning All-ACC First Team, Coaches All-ACC First Team, CBSSports.com All-America Second Team, SI.com All-America Honorable Mention honors.
***** The runner is Jameis Winston - his list of accomplishments are too long to list here. At 6’4” 235 pounds this guy knows how to run hard when needed.
Fourth Snap: Donald is engaged again by Tre on a run around the left end. Donald holds his position on the line and as he drags toward the runner is moved back about three yards. This doesn’t appear to be him being driven back as much as his moving toward the action. His pursuit ends when he runs into Kelvin Benjamin while being blocked. The play is designed to run AWAY from Donald and although it results in a nice gain it is hard to blame the backside DT for not making the tackle on a run around end. Certainly weak evidence of him being pushed around, if you ask me.
Fifth snap: 3rd and 1. This is a shovel pass to Benjamin with him running across the line of scrimmage toward Donald. We have zone blocking scheme here and Benjamin is clearly looking for the cutback lane. Donald is chipped by the center then engaged fully by Tre Jackson. Donald takes the inside should of Jackson and clearly drives him back almost three yards into the backfield. This forces Benjamin to keep his distance from the line and run around Donald. He tries to cut back behind Tre but support is there and the tackle is made for a 1 yard loss (after Benjamin falls forward two yards). If this is supposed to be Donald being pushed around I’m at a loss. Donald clearly dominates his blocker and causes the play to be made in the backfield. It looks like the safety who as up in run support was the guy able to make the play but again, Donald was driving his blocker back, clearly moving the running lane for Benjamin back from where it was wanted.
Sixth snap: Again a zone blocking scheme - attempt is to get the defensive line running parallel to the LOS giving the runner a cutback lane. Donald is lined up at RDT on this play and is going against Josue Matias***. Donald engages Matias and drives him toward the runner a full two plus yards into the backfield. The runner realizes he cannot continue to run in front of Matias and instead tries to cut back behind him. Unfortunately for him he is met a full yard behind the LOS by #37 and is dropped for a loss of just over a yard. Donald does not make a stat here but clearly effected this play. In NO WAY can the claim be made that he was pushed around on this play.
*** Josue Matias is a Junior guard with serious size - listed as 6’6” and 331 pounds. Matias won Coaches All-ACC Second Team and All-ACC Third Team honors this year.
Seventh snap: Donald is lined up at RDE, although he has inside position (the outside shoulder of the LG. At the snap he engages the outside shoulder of Matias and is moving backward but is then picked up by LT Cam Erving***. Together they full-time double-team him, and do a great job. They really hold the ground very nicely on this pass play - there is absolutely no pressure coming from Donald at all. The pass is completed for a TD. Now, if teams dedicate their LT and LG every passing play to Donald to avoid his pass rush in the NFL he will have proven himself worthy of the #12 pick, imo.
***Cam Erving is listed at 6’6” 303 pounds made a name for himself with too many honors to mention. He is likely to be one of the top tackles taken in next year’s draft.
Eighth snap: This is an absolutely amazing display by Donald - he is lined up at LDT and is engaged by RG Tre. He takes the outside shoulder of Tre and drives him back about six yards. At this point Winston is set up in a nice pocket (no pressure from anyone else). Donald ABSOLUTELY RAG-DOLLS the 339 pound Jackson and proceeds directly at Winston. Winston cannot stay in the pocket and has to step up. Donald lunges at him and almost brings him down but Winston is able to escape and Donald slides to the ground. Winston goes on to pick up several yards. Know what I like besides everything else I saw? Winston coming up behind the play after the tackle is made. Even though he went to the ground and is the sole reason the pass play was broken up, he got back up and pursued the QB until the whistle blew. Something else to note: In the replay you can clearly see that Benjamin has gotten behind the defense and is open for the TD pass. Clearly this is a TD if Donald doesn’t single-handedly apply the pressure on this play. Don’t know how you can say anything bad about Donald here.
Ninth snap: Short yardage formation - Donald is lined up at LDT opposite Tre Jackson again. Donald instantly again uses great strength and speed to get to the outside shoulder of Tre and penetrates almost two yards into the backfield. The runner is able to get outside of him as Donald is pretty clearly held and ultimately ends up being pushed in the back by Jackson to the ground. Not sure if you can always get away with that type of blocking in the NFL. Was Donald pushed around on this play? Not nearly, imo. He almost makes the tackle for loss on what likely would have been a holding call in the NFL.
End of first quarter.
Will provide the second quarter review soon.
maybe hes not the best scheme fit run-defense wise?
maybe hes not the best scheme fit run-defense wise?
When a D end does it he can more often be 'scheme'd out of the play since he is playing on the 'periphery' of the line. A DT is getting more pressure in the A and sometimes B gaps. That is much harder to scheme against.
First snap: The QB option play is run - Donald is clearly fooled here and runs around the backside of the LOS along with the runner. Winston sees this and decides to keep it. At first Winston looks like he is going to run right away from Donald’s direction but due to two defenders he decides to keep it and step up where Donald should have been. At this point he sees his receiver on the crossing route and throws for a nice gain. Clearly Donald’s worst play to this point, but not due to lack of size or being pushed around. The error was in reading the running play and not being disciplined to maintain his gap.
Second snap: Two back shotgun formation, Donald is at RDT and the play is immediately handed off to the back on Donald’s side of the LOS. He runs away from Donald following his other blockers. Donald is single-blocked by Matias as Erving pulls toward the right side of the LOS. Donald gets the outside shoulder of Matias turned and holds the line of scrimmage as he pursues from the backside. The runner makes a great gain as FSU easily controls the side of scrimmage away from Donald, but in no way is Donald run at or pushed around on this play. He holds his position well and keeps the line of scrimmage without abandoning the backside.
Third snap: Should interest those of you who think he can be run at. This is first and goal from the 4 yard line. Donald is lined up at LDT across from Tre. He is single-blocked by Tre and engages him on the outside shoulder and drives Tre several yards backward. The runner cuts inside of Tre and tries to get back to the LOS. Unfortunately for him there is a defender watching that gap and he is tackled for a loss. Donald absolutely does NOT get pushed around, on the contrary, he pushes the 339 pound Jackson back on this play that results in a tackle for loss. To Pitt’s dismay the tackler is flagged for a facemask penalty moving the ball ½ way toward the goal line and giving FSU another first down.
Fourth snap: First and goal on the 2 yard line, Pitt lines up in a five man front. Interestingly Donald is lined to the left of the nose tackle but with a pretty big gap. The NT is aligned with the center and Donald is aligned with the RT. At the snap Donald dives downward collapsing the RT and the RG. There is basically a huge pileup forced by Donald’s quick move and it frees up the left side of the defense to penetrate. Unfortunately for Pitt this is a play action pass, and the two defenders who would have tackled the runner for a loss are unable to get to the QB before he hits a receiver in the end zone for a TD. Is this the example people are using of Donald being “pushed around”? I don’t think so. In my mind, being pushed around is when you are driven backwards, not collapsing one side of the LOS.
Fifth snap: Donald is at RDT again, takes a funny stance aimed at the right shoulder of the center. Winston is in the shotgun with a single back. At the snap Donald is picked up by the RG and the center, who is able to turn his back to Donald with the help from Jackson. Donald is still driving the line backward when the pass goes off approximately two seconds after the snap. Was Donald pushed around here? Nope. Didn’t get pressure but seriously, no DT does in under 2 seconds with two defenders to deal with.
Sixth snap: Donald is lined up at RDT and engages Matias off the snap - single man protection bull rush, Donald is driving Matias backward when the pass is thrown, about two seconds after the snap. No time for Donald to get pressure again, but not an indication that he can be pushed around either.
Seventh snap: A very interesting play. Donald lines up at LDT again and aligns himself with the inside shoulder of Tre Jackson. At the snap it’s Tre on his own against the much lighter Donald. Donald drives Tre backwards by rotating his entire body away from the inside shoulder of Tre and is able to push Tre three yards into the backfield. On Tre’s way to the ground he clips the runners ankle. Donald is not able to make the tackle, as both he and Tre are headed to the ground, but he blows up the inside of the line and forces the runner to adjust directly into the waiting arms of another Pitt defender in the backfield. Unfortunately for Pitt this player tries to tackle him using the old bear-hug technique, and it just doesn’t work. The runner is able to bounce to the outside. However Donald has done his part, blowing up the play by absolutely crushing Tre Jackson and forcing the runner into his teammates waiting arms for what should have been a tackle for loss.
Eighth snap: Donald is lined up at RDT and mans up against LG Matias. He is bull rushing Matias when a blocker comes along and chips him. Meanwhile Winston (who was in the shotgun at the snap) unloads the ball at approximately 2.5-3 seconds after the snap. The receiver catches the ball but is unable to come down inbounds, ruled incomplete.
Ninth snap: Lined up at LDT - the ‘Noles try to block him man up with Tre on this passing play. Big mistake. After driving Tre backwards he spins out right into the QB. Winston is hit as he throws and the ball is complete for a first down, but it’s a good thing he didn’t have to wait even a tenth of a second longer or this would have been a turnover for sure. By the way, this isn’t some 4-5 second pass rush. Donald is hitting the QB within three seconds of the snap. Donald shows great pass-rush skills here and is not in any way “pushed around”.
Tenth snap: Lined up at LDT again, this is a shotgun passing play. Again, Donald drives his man directly backward collapsing any kind of pocket you could design. The play gets off very quickly before Donald can get there, but again, he is not being pushed around here. To the contrary, actually.
Eleventh snap: Lined up again at LDT, he takes the outside shoulder of Tre Jackson and then uses his speed to get around Tre toward Winston. He grabs Winston but Winston is able to shed him, turning around directly toward another pass rusher. It is called a Donald sack, and that’s definitely debatable, imo, but there is no debate that he owns Tre with this pass rush.
Twelfth snap: Lined up now at RDT, he is picked up by LT Erving and has inside help from LG Matias. Not that he needs it. Erving does a very good job on his own and Donald is not able to get past him. The play gets off pretty quickly but it is clear that Erving is going to do a much better job against Donald than Jackson can.
Thirteenth snap: First and goal from the 9, Donald is now lined up at RDT. Donald runs down the LOS and engages the runner within ½ yard of the LOS. The momentum of the runner allows him to pick up another 4 yards however as Donald is running laterally when he makes contact. One might note here that Matias is the blocker who tries to engage Donald, and he is unable to keep his hands on him. Donald easily sheds him, slides along the line of scrimmage where he picks up the solo tackle. Now, is a 4+ yard run a good thing for a defense? Of course not, but the result isn’t because Donald was pushed around. It is a good thing Donald was able to control the LOS and make contact where he was because there were no other defenders even close to the runner and they weren’t going to make contact for several yard after Donald gets there. Is this the play where Donald gets pushed around? I don’t think so.
Fourteenth snap: 2nd and goal from just inside the five yard line. Donald is lined up at RDT and he engages Matias as soon as the ball is snapped. Donald does not make the tackle here. He holds his own against Matias - keeps the line of scrimmage and maybe bends Matias back a half-yard as he drives laterally toward the runner. The runner is able to cut behind the excellent perimeter blocking of FSU and score a touchdown. It isn’t clear from the camera angle but it looks like Donald may have been held here. One thing is clear, it isn’t as though the much bigger Matias is able to drive Donald backward, or that they are able to run directly at Donald. That would have clearly been a mistake. In fact, the gap that the runner ultimately cuts through is the one outside of the RDE’s shoulder, yet Donald is almost able to close that gap again, at the LOS. Pushed around? Not in this case.
Fifteenth snap: Donald from the RDT position is quick to the QB but it was a trap - they threw the screen just over the head of the LE just before Donald gets there. A great play but hardly an indication that Donald can be pushed around.
Sixteenth snap: Donald lines up at LDT and the LE stunts around Donald, causing the RT to pick up Donald. The stunt pushes Winston toward Donald, and as Donald goes to pursue you can clearly see the RT pulling his jersey. Winston redirects to the outside and throws the ball. Clearly a hold here but not a situation where Donald is pushed around. He was making good progress with his outside rush.
Seventeenth snap: Nearing the end of the second quarter, just 40 seconds or so left on the clock, the ‘Noles decide to double-team Donald and it works. Mind you, he doesn’t get chipped, this is a full-on double team of the RT and RG on Donald and he gets nowhere. On this play he actually slows his pursuit early (imo) as he looks a bit tired to me and just jumps in the air to try to knock down the pass. This doesn’t happen and FSU scores.
End of the second quarter and the half.
So far, I’ve not seen a single snap of Donald being blown off the ball even though it is clear to me that the FSU line is very talented and NFL sized. They are not able to blow him off the ball, although the double-team is able to slow down or even stop his pass rush. On to the third quarter.
He had a good game despite what others are saying (great work Dan, btw). I saw this game live and on tape. As much as I was in awe of what Jameis Winston did in that game with only 2 incompletions, Donald stood out and has moved up my board with each passing game and then some. The guy is an absolute beast but people are always going to nitpick. However, if you want to see what he can do when he's NOT double and triple teamed every play, watch the Georgia Tech tape. Despite the loss he was a one man wrecking crew. 11 tackles including SIX for loss and a sack. This is coming from a guy who was the only player of substance on the front seven and GT ran it over 50 times in that game for those who keep talking about how he'll hold up against the run. Draft Donald and don't look back.
First snap: Donald begins at RDT and it’s a passing play from the shotgun. The ‘Noles have put both the LT and LG on Donald exclusively - he is eating up their best pass blocker and the player next to him. Of course, he is not able to penetrate or make a play here, but Winston also moves outside on this play and releases fairly quickly. This might be the play people are referring to as him being pushed around, but to be honest, if our RDT takes on the LG and LT in a battle I don’t expect him to win that battle. It does mean that someone else (JPP) is going to be one on one with the TE like what happened here, in which case Donald is worthy of the #12 pick.
Second snap: Donald is lined up at LDT and takes on Trey. He penetrates easily into the backfield and is able to get an arm on the runner at least two yards in the backfield. He isn’t able to bring him down, and the rest of the Pitt Dline gets absolutely mauled on this play - no one else is able to get near the runner until he’s past the LOS. This is actually a good play for Donald - they better not keep trying to run anywhere near him without double-teaming him because he is eating up the much larger Tre Jackson, who is no slouch at RG. The center is called for a hold on this play backing FSU up.
Third snap: Another screen - this time Donald sees it coming and releases from his rush to pursue the receiver. Unfortunately for him the ball gets there quickly and it’s all the way on the other side of the field. Just the same, there is good recognition and pursuit here and definitely NOT a case of Donald getting pushed around.
Fourth snap: This is an EXCELLENT snap to evaluate, as they are clearly trying to power run over Donald. He lines up at LDT. At the snap he is directly engaged by the RG AND the RT. The LDE is left single blocked by the TE. This is a pushing contest - you can see both the offensive linement pushing hard on Donald. Donald is pushing back.. If ever there is a case to be made that Donald can be pushed around it would be in this situation. The runner runs right toward Donald as though he expects a hole to be created there. Why wouldn’t he? You have two enormous linemen doubling up Donald in the run game. Guess what? No hole. Not only that, but Donald does NOT give an inch to these two. Instead, he holds his position. The runner is able to bounce outside Donald where the entire rest of the Pitt defense gets caught in over-pursuit and he makes a nice gain. Is this the case of Donald being pushed around? Definitely not. Watch the tape closely and you’ll see that he can definitely hold his own against serious beef. He is not giving up anything here.
This snap is so crucial to the argument that Donald can be pushed around that I’m going to highlight it and ask you to watch. It is at 7:40 of the clip you posted. Try to see if Donald gets moved at all even though there are two linemen on him. Tell me I’m wrong.
Fifth snap: Donald is lined up at RDT. He is engaged by Matias on this running play. He holds his position, then as he moves laterally begins to be driven backwards just a little (less than a yard). He is able to spin out of the block however and comes up to meet the runner at the line of scrimmage. He doesn’t get the solo tackle however because two other defenders got there first. This run is for zero gain, and Donald was there to make sure of it. Definitely not Donald just getting pushed around.
Sixth snap: FSU just straight up running the ball - with their 28-10 lead they are running out the clock. It’s second and goal from the 8. Donald at LDT meets the RG head on at the LOS and holds the point. The run is to the opposite side of the LOS, and in no way does Donald enter into this play. Note that he is NOT blown off the LOS or pushed around as some might intimate. When the play ends Donald is standing AT the LOS still even though he is squared up against the much bigger Matias.
Seventh snap: Third and goal from around the six, Donald is at RDT. Winston is in shotgun and takes the snap. Donald uses his superior strength to bull rush RG Ruben Carter*** who is in to cover for Jackson, out now with an ankle injury. The center tries to chip him but the bull rush is on with such speed that it has no effect. As Carter loses his footing he pulls Donald to the ground. Flags fly. Winston is able to scramble a bit before being tackled. This is Donald’s play clearly. He disrupts the play, gets the holding call, still applies the pressure causing Winston to scramble, and ultimately be sacked. The holding call is declined as the result of the play is fourth down.
*** Carter is no match for Donald - listed at 6’4” and 299 pounds, he cannot be expected to play Donald without help. Looking forward to seeing how FSU responds to Jackson being out, and whether he returns.
Eighth snap: A rare snap with Winston under center, Donald is lined up at LDT across from Carter. This is a running play. At the snap Donald is double-teamed, with Carter taking him straight up and the RT down-blocking. This is no chip - they are double-teaming him directly. The ball is run the other direction. Against this double-team Donald holds up well, giving up one yard off the line of scrimmage but shedding Carter who ends up on the ground. He does not come into the play however as he ends up in pursuit of the runner downfield. This is a well blocked play on the away side of the field and the reason for the success is clearly due to running away from Donald, not running over him. Was he pushed around here? I don’t think so.
Ninth snap: Again, a running play - Donald is lined up across from Carter. At the snap both the RT and Carter engage Donald at the LOS. Donald holds the point well momentarily - staying within a half-yard of the LOS despite the double team. At this point the FB or Hback (#41) joins the blocking effort making it a triple-team. At this point you see Donald bouncing backward about a yard. The play is run to the left of center and Donald is not able to get into the action. Again, would you complain about a DT who takes on a double-team and still gets help from a third blocker? Someone else on this defense needs to step up and make the play here. Donald is not being pushed around here until the FB joins the crowd. Notice that the run is for minimal gain - the runner advances the ball only about a yard and a half.
Since this is the first moment where you can actually see Donald being overpowered at the point of attack I think I should highlight the timing so all can watch. This play begins at 8:49 of the clip.
Tenth snap: A play-action bootleg Donald is met at the LOS by Carter - the entire line begins in pursuit of the runner due to the play-action. Donald knocks Carter and is free of him, then realizes the bootleg and turns to pursue. By now there is pressure on Winston and he unloads into the end zone. The ball is incomplete (only his second incomplete pass so far). Donald is not pushed around here at all - the play is designed to get the QB away from him.
Eleventh snap: Video doesn’t start until after the snap - but you can see that Donald is lined up at LDT across from Carter. It seems since Tre Jackson was injured that Donald is almost exclusively lining up against his replacement. This is a run, and Donald is single-blocked by Carter. Carter does not push him backwards and the runner bounces around to the left side of the line of scrimmage. Donald does not factor into this play but you cannot say that he was pushed around.
Twelfth snap: Donald is lined up at RDE in this third down, obvious passing situation. Hard to see exactly, but it looks like there are only two men with their hand in the dirt on this down, with four Pitt defenders in a two-point stance. At the snap Donald takes an inside angle on the LT Erving. He is pushing Erving back when the outside rusher is able to beat his blocker and force Winston from the pocket. Donald sees this and peels off Erving in pursuit of Winston. Winston is under intense pressure (mostly NOT from Donald) and throws it away. Donald is not beaten or pushed around on this play, although the play is clearly made by the blitzing outside backer.
End of the third quarter.
What do we see so far? This was the best quarter to see whether FSU was able to run right at Donald, as they spent most of their snaps running the ball, trying to milk the clock. Were they successful or able to push Donald around? I say absolutely not. Anyone disagree - tell me which play that Donald was easily pushed around on, because I didn’t see it.
Fourth quarter up next.
He had a good game despite what others are saying (great work Dan, btw). I saw this game live and on tape. As much as I was in awe of what Jameis Winston did in that game with only 2 incompletions, Donald stood out and has moved up my board with each passing game and then some. The guy is an absolute beast but people are always going to nitpick. However, if you want to see what he can do when he's NOT double and triple teamed every play, watch the Georgia Tech tape. Despite the loss he was a one man wrecking crew. 11 tackles including SIX for loss and a sack. This is coming from a guy who was the only player of substance on the front seven and GT ran it over 50 times in that game for those who keep talking about how he'll hold up against the run. Draft Donald and don't look back. [/quote]
He demonstrates some amazing quickness in that Tech game!
I am totally sold on the guy. I hope he falls to us and that we actually pick him. I'll be disappointed if we don't though less so if Matthews or Robinson somehow fall to us.
Thanks Dan for the play by play analysis. The fact that the FSU line has to dedicate so much attention to the guy is a great testament to his worth. And he still manages to have a pretty damn good game!
First snap: Donald is lined up at LDT again - I presume Carter is still the man. They try to single block him as Winston sets up in the pocket. Bad decision. Donald is just way too quick and easily beats the RG. He hits Winston low and while wrapping him up Winston dumps the ball off to #41 (Chad Abram) behind the LOS. Abram is hit about a yard behind the LOS and bounces off - then is able to keep running for positive yardage. This is definitely not the snap where Donald is being pushed around, trust me. This play doesn’t show up on the stat line, as Donald just missed the sack, but he single-handedly blew up the downfield passing game and was an impact player here.
Second snap: Donald at RDT - is met by Matias - the running back starts to run that direction. Donald does not budge from the LOS - is holding Matias up and the running back cuts back the other direction where he is tackled for a loss of one. You can see Donald shed the block and pursue. At this point he is only jogging toward the tackle - not sure if he’s tired, but really who could blame him even if that is the case. Just the same, he wasn’t pushed around on this play.
Third snap: Donald at LDT is double-teamed here, but he is so quick he drives the RG straight back toward Winston. The center who is trying to double-team him is unable to get his hands on Donald in any kind of effective way. The RG ends up nearly parallel to Winston as he is releasing the ball, and Donald is turning in to deliver a blow. I’m not sure if he was able to put a hit on Winston because the cameras followed the pass downfield but he was right there applying the pressure. He wasn’t pushed around here.
Fourth snap: Here Donald is at RDT. At the snap, the LG shoots out past Donald to take on a second-level defender. The LT Erving turns inside - Donald is his man, but he knows he can’t keep up with him. The run is all the way around the RT, but Donald pursues down the line. He never catches up to the play from the backside (what DT could?) but he isn’t blocked either. This is not evidence of him being pushed around, just being run away from.
Fifth snap: Here is the best evidence of Donald being pushed around all game. He is lined up at RDT across from the LG. At the snap, the center comes directly at Donald and you can see at the moment he is hit he goes backwards about half a yard, maybe even a full yard. What you have to note here though is subtle - look at the tape closely. He is actually taking on both the center and the LG simultaneously. Either way, the give here on this short yardage play (2nd and 2) is ultimately about two yards once the entire line gives the push. FSU tries the WR screen here but it is blown up with a nice tackle in the backfield on the receiver.
Sixth snap: Now 3rd and 2. Donald is lined up at RDT and Winston is in the shotgun. This is easily Donald’s worst pass rush of the game. He is met by the RG and is unable to release from him or get around him. Basically beaten on this play, but not really pushed around either. Remember, this is now the 44th snap of the game for Donald. Not knowing what was going to happen I did notice that before the snap Donald was on one knee (along with the other DT). I’m pretty sure he’s wearing down pretty good by now. No surprise here - eventually he’s going to wear down from the constant double-teams and work he’s had.
Seventh snap: It is now clear that Donald was tired - as the next snap he is in comes a couple of plays later. He is not in for first or second down, and comes back in on third and five. The Pitt defense has five down linemen here, with Donald the middle man between LG Matias and LT Erving. At the snap they try to single block him with Erving. Donald looks a bit fresher and has his best rush of the game against Erving. He gets his outside shoulder and is driving him back toward Winston. The RB comes up to double team him, and Winston unloads before he can get there for the TD, but Donald was beating Erving in a game where Erving has definitely impressed me. Donald is not pushed around here.
End of tape.
I do think that he represents a serious match-up problem for offenses.
I am also tired of the accusations that he doesn't hold up against the run. Not sure I'm really willing to do more play by play annotation for everyone here, but I'm certainly open to someone highlighting ANY play in ANY game where he is blown off the line of scrimmage and just driven backwards. I have watched too much tape and haven't seen any of it.
So now the burden is shifted onto those who say he gets pushed around. Show me the plays where he is pushed around. I won't take offense and will amend my position. I just haven't seen it and I have closely scrutinized the games where he supposedly is blown off the ball.
I do think that he represents a serious match-up problem for offenses.
I am also tired of the accusations that he doesn't hold up against the run. Not sure I'm really willing to do more play by play annotation for everyone here, but I'm certainly open to someone highlighting ANY play in ANY game where he is blown off the line of scrimmage and just driven backwards. I have watched too much tape and haven't seen any of it.
So now the burden is shifted onto those who say he gets pushed around. Show me the plays where he is pushed around. I won't take offense and will amend my position. I just haven't seen it and I have closely scrutinized the games where he supposedly is blown off the ball.
Thanks for the exhaustive effort Dan. The way I look at it though I rarely advocate a DT in round 1 as development time and bust rate can be high some guys just 'scream ' exception.
This guy is that. Also a true pass rushing DT is one of the toughest things to find. That skillset is rarer than finding even a good LT. For instance in this stocked draft if we wait until round 2 we still have a shot at an LT versatile tackle but very unlikely we get a passrushing DT even close to Donalds level.
Mack is another guy with a very rare skillset as passrushing LBs who can also play in space are very tough to find too. BUT he probably aint makin it to 12!
Give me Donald (or Mack if he inexplicably drops) and we can go WR/TE And OL in rounds 2-4.
Or watch more games closely.
Now the burden of proof lies in the hands of those who say Donald gets pushed around during run plays.
Your snarky tone aside, I guess you don't have any specific examples of Donald being pushed around either.
Man - you Donald guys need a few drinks...
This guy is a once in 10 years pass rushing force from the DT position. Yes I think he is that special.