the case for Aaron Donald

Any team will obviously throw him right into a bulking program. My worry would be how much of that speed and elusiveness, which are his greatest strengths, will he lose with an addition 25~30 pounds on his frame?

really I'm fine with just about anyone we pick, I think the Giants have a good enough track record to not be angry, whoever it is.

won't support extra weight unless it goes straight to his gut. He doesn't need it. Additional weight as a reliable metric for performance is foolhardy. Fat people are not healthy. Fat athletes are not reliable .

and be a game changer. At 285, he has the power of a 300+lber and plays with leverage. I think he can dominate in the league at 290 - no need to try and turn him into something he's not.

Pass rush, doesn't matter if it's from DE or DT spot. Donald looks alot like Suh in the highlights. Question is whether Donald gets pushed around and manhandled by physical guards as some have stated. Need an answer from someone that has actually watched film of him!

Its not always about how much you weigh. If he's strong enough to hold his own he will be fine.

Keith Hamilton was like 295?

Justin Smith weighs 285 but he's strong as an ox.

Justin Smith probably gets the standard white guy farm strength that's always mentioned.

not crazy about the idea but I'd understand if he was the pick. His size is what makes me shy away but we've had the likes of Lance Legree and Kendrick Clancy play effectively in the interior in the past so what do I know?

has always and just recently emphasized his desire for "big people" on the lines. Whether this will work against Donald as our pick remains to be seen. We lost Joseph, a big man and our defense was very good last year. Another big DT is not out of the question here to go with Hankins. I know some think we have to have a penetrating quicker DT but it worked fine last year with the big guys.

Donald is my pick at 12.

functional weight. But that's fine. He's strong as an ox, and his 6'1" frame allows him to get leverage against the bigger OGs, while his speed allows him to beat those guys out of their stances.

you should at least say he is a good football player because ... ? Saying the guy did 32 reps on the bench press doesn't accomplish that.

"At the NFL Combine, Donald ran the forty yard dash with an official time of 4.68 seconds, setting the record for fastest time for a defensive tackle previously held by Tank Johnson, who ran a 4.69 in 2004. Donald drew comparisons to John Randle afterwards.[5]

Pre-draft measurables
Ht Wt Arm length Hand size 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP
6 ft 0 3⁄4 in 285 lb 32 5⁄8 in 9 7⁄8 in 4.68 s 1.59 s 7.11 s 32 in 9 ft 8 in 35 reps
All values from NFL Combine[6]"

FROM WIKIPEDIA...

I don't get the negativity on this board about lack of height....Donald is stronger the most DT prospects including Ndamukong Suh at around 6'4' 300lbs got only 32 reps at the combine....

What is the difference between 6ft 0 3/4 inch 290lbs and 6ft 4 inch 300lbs...when the 290lb prospect is much stronger?

Donald supposedly benches over 500lbs and squats 600lbs....for those that don't believe their eyes from Donald's films....where watching his film....one will see the only player on the Pitt defensive line that faced constant double and triple teams and was still able to put up unreal film....listen to what opposing team coaches in charge of targeting and finding ways to stop Donald the only player on the Pitt line had to say....stop guessing or speculating....opinions are like a holes....listen to what Notre Dame coach Brian Kelley and the other coaches from football factories with many pro prospect OL trying to block Donald had to say about Donald....

Nobody on this board is a pro personal person....but from amateurs like myself....Donald gives the appearance of a guy an impact player with the potential to be a multiple Probowl player....

I am praying this guy is available when the Giants pick....



Aaron Donald - A Football Story - ( New Window )

John Randle played at 6'1", 287 lbs. Both went lower than they should (Randle went undrafted) because teams thought they were too small or would be overmatched by guards, couldn't play the run, etc. But it's not about size, it's about talent. Donald uses not only his size, but his speed and strength to his advantage. It doesn't come around often, but when it does you jump on it, grab it and don't let go because you'll pay otherwise in the long run. I've wanted this pick for some time and I really hope it happens.

You must rush the passer in today's NFL. Period. This guy appears to be physically "ready" right now due to his strength. John Randle was all of maybe 280 pounds and he was a beast at DT for MN for years.

If Donald is the Giants top value at #12 then take him. We definitely need both a DE and a DT in this draft. Control the line of scrimmage and win games.

If we go DT, OG, OC and TE with our first four picks we'd be filling needs with hopefully high quality folks.

but he compliments the Giants Dline nicely.

I'd love to have him on 3rd downs, I just worry about him on 1st downs. Is he a guy you want in there on first downs? That's the only thing that gives me hesitation.

I like the idea of a DT with the first pick if he's the guy.

It's hard to ignore the upside of Donald. May can't get here fast enough.....

I assume everyone knows he is a good football player
He is dynamic
actually he did 35 reps and I mentioned it because it was, I believe the second best result at the combine.
BTW I've watched a ton of tape on him and those numbers at Pitt were a result of him being double teamed all the time

I assume everyone knows he is a good football player
He is dynamic
actually he did 35 reps and I mentioned it because it was, I believe the second best result at the combine.
BTW I've watched a ton of tape on him and those numbers at Pitt were a result of him being double teamed all the time

do you have faith his game as constituted will translate well to the NFL. Is he going to have the same impact vs NFL linemen that he had as a collegiate player. Day in and day out he's going to be giving up a lot of size in the trenches. That is a legitimate concern. Is his frame close to maxed out? I liken his game to Tommy Harris coming out but TH was still 6/3/295# with room to grow.

Did Donald have a great career at Pitt absolutely...has his post season been outstanding..again without a doubt. He's a rare athlete. The fact remains at his position size matters and it's a weakness to consider. Some players by nature of their physique will always be better college players than pros.

Is that the case with Aaron Donald?...I don't know but it's at the heart of the debate surrounding this young mans prospects in the draft.

He's a Lovie type of DT.

really hope he lasts to 12. I put Donald in with the elite top 5 of this draft to be honest based on impact I think they will have in the league.

Not saying it's a bad thing that Donald can rep like a beast (I understand long arms and bench press etc), but bench press is a very specific movement that isn't ever exactly duplicated on the field of play.

The draft choices must be a sure thing. So you want a 285 lb DT and you're sure he's going to be just fine nose-on-nose with a 325 OG. Ok, but don't tell me about it when they are running right at him every time they need a few sure yards on the ground.

but I think he'll be gone by 12, especially if only one QB is taken before 12.....a DT with his pass rush ability is pure gold to any Dline regardless of height.

In comment 11588119 Spark Em Up 22 said:

Quote:

Not saying it's a bad thing that Donald can rep like a beast (I understand long arms and bench press etc), but bench press is a very specific movement that isn't ever exactly duplicated on the field of play.

He can bench press 450 lbs. So if anybody is laying on top of him, he can probably push them off.

Was a player that is about his size, i am not sold on Donald, he will have trouble adding weight and keeping his explosiveness, kicking him to the outside may not work because his arms and height simply is not there, he was pushed around in the running game also, people want to ignore that fact, but in the NFl he may be such a huge liability in the running game that he may not get on the field except for third down, and then he is now up against pro guards, not college guards. Did he rack up the sacks and penetration against the lower level guards? i am very leery of drafting Donald at 12, if it were the 25th pick, or second round, then i may take a chance, at 12 you simply can not miss or it will set this franchise back.

Shorter then Sue's? Maybe why he did more reps then him. I do like him as a prospect but I'll leave it to the scouts on whether his game will translate

Aaron Donald: 32 5/8"
Ndamukong Suh: 33 1/2"

As such he doesn't need to be some huge motherfucker and he doesn't need to get any bigger than he is right now. You pair him with someone like Hankins and he is the perfect complement.

Belichick used to say that he doesn't look at positions, he looks at jobs. Don't think of Donald as a DT, think of him as an interior disruptor. That will be his job and he will be good at it.

That knows that you can put smaller, faster players inside and completely disrupt the opponents offense, it's the team that did exactly this with 270 pound Justin Tuck. How many times do we need to be reminded of how important an elite pass rush is?

You can find fault with Donald when looking at the stat line, but I have yet to find a flaw in his game when watching film. Actually, that's not true. I did see one snap in the fourth quarter of a game where he got stood up by a double team and it appeared he just gave up.

One snap of a couple hundred I've personally seen while exclusively focusing on Donald every bit of the play.

Quote:

That knows that you can put smaller, faster players inside and completely disrupt the opponents offense, it's the team that did exactly this with 270 pound Justin Tuck. How many times do we need to be reminded of how important an elite pass rush is?

While that is true, they weren't usually running out the Nascar package on 1st and 2nd downs out there. Obvious passing downs, of course. I think stopping the runs on those initial downs is the biggest worry people have with Donald probably.

I was telling a friend I liked Donald at 12 and he disagreed, saying he reminded him too much of Chris Zorich - college superstar, average pro.

The comparison seemed valid at first. Both undersized at 6', 285. Both unanimous All-Americans and Lombardi winners. Zorich put up 29 reps at the combine.

But a look at senior year stats for each makes the case for Donald...

Zorich 1990

57 tackles
12 TFL
4 sacks
2 FF

Donald 2013

59 tackles
28.5 TFL
11 sacks
4 FF

Overall, while Zorich was a beast, Donald is the more productive player by far, especially making impact plays. I'd love to get him.

our new run-stuffer. Who do you double team on the line when you want to run up the gut on us? A penetrator like Donald? A space-eater like Hankins (and perhaps a backup like DuJuan Jones from PSU)? JPP? I like the idea of a Hankins-Donald DT duo, with Beason behind them ready to collect the tackles they don't make.

And how many people can an offense devote to pass protection when Donald, Jenkins, JPP and Moore are in there? Who do you double then?

I hope that if we go defense we have a shot at and take Donald.

In comment 11588181 PaulN said:

Quote:

he was pushed around in the running game also, people want to ignore that fact

Can you point me to the tape of him being pushed around in the running game? I haven't been able to find any. Last week a couple of his games were singled out as evidence of his being mauled by large inferior linemen, namely against U of Miami and FSU. I watched both games and saw him play extremely well. What FSU did well was they changed things up throughout the game. At first they moved the pocket away from Donald for pretty much the entire first quarter. Then they tried to set up in the pocket and Donald started to take over the game with consistent pressure, just missing out on two sacks and two safeties as well. After that they double teamed him constantly,and I'm not talking about a chip block, I'm talking full time center and guard, with the back ready for the few times he was able to get through the two.

I've watched a ton of film and I have seen him neutralized but have not seen him pushed around or driven backwards. Even against double teams with much larger guards he does not get driven backwards, so I'm not sure what you are seeing.

If you compare his profile with Geno Atkins they are very similar. They are the same height and weight. Their draft blurbs were similar coming out. Geno can't hold up against the run; blah, blah, blah.

Geno did 34 Reps on the bench and his arms are a 1/2" shorter than Donalds. For what that's worth. And Suh's arms are a full inch longer than Donald's.....bench is just a generic idea of strength. Watching film nobody appears stronger on the field then Suh. He is a beast.

Lower body power/explosiveness is more important, not sure why they don't measure that more.

In the end I think Donald will be close to the top of our board at 12. We will see i guess.

is that he's the exact opposite of an athlete who can get by on their superior athleticism and measurements. He has ALWAYS had to work harder, study more film and rely on superior technique to succeed and he's done it with incredible results. I'll take that over a physical freak any day of the week as success in the NFL is acheived through hard work and dedication to your craft. He has those in spades and is already far advanced in his technique which will allow him to make an immediate impact his rookie year.

there are a dozen undersized DT's on the scrapheap. Remember Randle went undrafted and Atkins was a 4th rounder. Why? Because the odds of smaller guys being impact players in the trench warfare that is NFL line play are poor. If you're the NY Giants that absolutely have to nail this draft you have to be more than confident this kid can buck the odds before you draft him. Face it despite his success in college he's statistically a longshot in the NFL.

With a few cheap vet signing (Patterson for example) they can be set for one more year at the position. They already have their two starters. If Donald is BPA take him but if better OL, TE, LB, WR, DE, CB are available pass on Donald

And no matter who they take at 12 I will probably be happy because I trust Reese's round one track record

And he's a lot quicker. We don't often have a pick this low and now that we do we have to go for the best player. IMO, Aaron Donald is one of the best players in the draft. If he's there when we pick and we pass on him, we'll be sorry.

In comment 11588310 Giants Fan in Steelers Land said:

Quote:

With a few cheap vet signing (Patterson for example) they can be set for one more year at the position. They already have their two starters. If Donald is BPA take him but if better OL, TE, LB, WR, DE, CB are available pass on Donald

Well, I disagree, because generating a pass rush is extremely important for us, and particularly up the middle so that it disrupts the read-option. We did a very poor job rushing the passer last year, and the short QB drops as well as the read-option negating our DEs didn't help that.

I'm a huge fan of drafting a top OL in Rd. 1, but if they don't like any OL available at 12 and loved Donald I'd be all for it., presuming that we'd draft an OL in Rd. 2 and again in either Round 3 or 4.

...need to tone it down. There are no sure things in the NFL draft. Donald is one among a handful of very closely rated players the team will be considering. He carries risk just like all of them. His is more obvious to see as it's his size we're talking about.

taking him with a slight trade back from #2 as they also have #13. He was on "Path to the Draft" last night and said the Rams had him in for a visit. That scenario makes the most sense to me...unfortunately.

in the draft. He can flat out play. Non stop motor.

But that is on JPP , Moore, and Jenkins and I think they can deliver

Given the option to add an OL, TE, LB, DE, WR and to a lesser extent CB who can start and be effective day 1 or add a reserve DT who will come in on 3rd down I want one of those other positions.

My comments ignore the actual prospects and instead focus on positions because I am not going to pretend I am in any way qualified to tell you what college players will translate to talented NFL players.

i'd consider it more likely he is the guy they are targeting at #13....most pundits have Donald somewhere in the teens....not as a Top 10 guy.

Player I want in the 1st. I could def get behind him in the first, OL in the 2nd and TE in the 3rd or vice versa.

JPP, Hankins, Donald and Moore would be a scary D Line.

I've got a lot of experience with competitive bodybuilding and PEDs over the years.

Donald just looks like a guy that's as strong as an ox. He doesn't look like he's used PEDs. I mentioned this because it's pretty strange that he's that damn strong. There maybe 5 young men his age in the country with his power.