Greg Gabriel, who spent 29 years as a college scout for NFL teams, including the Giants from 1985-2001 and nine seasons as Director of College Scouting for the Chicago Bears after that.
Lewan's problems were already known, so the arraignment is nothing new. I thought the actual arraignment would make teams pause, but apparently not. And it's easy to see how Ebron could be a game changer, even with his drops.
He also doesn't seem to think the Giants will select Donald, that they will instead choose Evans.
And he likes Evans and Donald for the Giants like I do so it's clear he's super smart! Actually, I don't think Ebron will be off the board at 12. Lewan I could see being gone.
Really think Zack Martin is going to end up being the pick
Not so sure Lewan won't be there. Have some teams really QB hungry, and I don't think they let Bortles and the others go by. If Lewan isn't there - may not be the end of the world - some think Martin is the better pick
Gabriel thinks those two players will be selected prior to the Giants' Rd 1 pick. It's not that he doesn't like them or thinks the Giants don't like them.
Someone's got to take Bortles early.. it might cause a couple other teams to panic before our pick and take Manziel or Bridgewater. That's our one chance at someone really good slipping to us.
don't know what's going to happen. Never know until it plays out on draft day, it's all fluid and can change on the dime. Speculation is the norm though
Ebron not being avaliable at 12 would be a blessing in disguise. Lewan not being there would be disappointing but if it forces us to take Martin, I'm all for it. With his versatility, he should be our pick. What good is drafting a WR that high when we can't keep our franchise QB upright?
I like Schwartz and if Walton is able to shake the rust off before the season starts, he's a solid C. But what about Beatty? Even before the leg injury he looked pretty bad. I have faith he'll improve on last year if the leg is healthy, but he still isn't a franchise LT. Pugh is a very good lineman and Snee is toast. At best, he's a backup G/mentor. While the line has improved, it's still a question mark. Drafting Martin could help answer a lot of those questions since he can play either T or G spot and do it at a high level.
I'd really like to see the 1st 4 rounds go OL/TE/C/WR.
Martin
Niklas
Swanson
Brandon Coleman
were never an issue I don't think with Evans. Getting off the line, playing only 2 years, and just worry about a big WR in the NFL. A lot of big WRs busted, so just making sure Evans has the talent that avoids that.
the problem about judging a WR by their hands is that you first have to grade their ability to get open. you can't catch it if you can't get thrown it.
that is my concern on Evans. it is not clear on whether he is going to be able to get open at the next level. I'm warming to the idea of him as a selection but there are other directions I would much rather go...
Would be disappointed if Lewan went right before the Giants pick. What a tease.
With all these QB's and those two names going within the top 10, the Giants are certainly in position for a top player yet the player might not be a top need.
Brandt has a heck of resume but his track record and statements over the past few years is more reflective of a guy in need of retirement. :)
Lot of choices but the offense is dysfunctional without more blockers. Tough choice IMO.
In comment 11590332 I'd really like to see the 1st 4 rounds go OL/TE/C/WR.
Martin
Niklas
Swanson
[/quote]
Those 3 picks would certainly solidify the OL. Not sure where Martin goes but he appears to be one the safer choices. An OLineman which can play multiple positions, a 270lbs TE and a center who could play guard is a nice.
(lol, real nice so long as Donald doesn't become Warren Sapp)
The thing with a guy like Evans, he can be "covered" and still be open like Plaxico was... He has the size/strength, body control and leaping ability that he is virtually impossible for most corners to cover one-on-one. Since our QB has a propensity to throw it high, I think getting a big physical receiver like him would be huge (so to speak).
SNYGiants retweeted
10m
P. Schrager @PSchrags
Already got one text from a scout on site... "Umm, Mike Evans. Wow." ... Did the TAMU wideout upstage Johnny today?
Giants have three areas of glaring need OL DL and TE
Can they get excellent value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds at these positions so that they can skip that pick in the 1st? If a TE is there in the 3rd which almost equates to Ebron in the 1st then that position becoames a 1st round pass. If they feel a quality DL position will not be available in the 2nd or 3rd round compared to the 1st then I suppose that is the direction they would go. One exception would be if there was a talent so superior that was available at 12 that they could not overlook like a Robinson
While he may be right that Lewan will not be there for the Giants...
...his logic is flawed in determining that. Because he is better than the top tackle last year? Last year's draft and where players were selected have no baring on this years draft. He may be better than the top guy last year, but he is still the 3rd tackle this year. Also the talent at other positions in the draft is stronger this year as well. Lewan looks like a very talented player and he may very well be drafted before the Giants are on the board, but it won't be because he is a better prospect than Fisher.
The above are players in the top 25 in catches with better drop rates than Megatron. So out of the top 25, there are only 5 guys with higher drop rates than Calvin. Granted some of his probably come against double/triple teams, but he still doesn't exactly have "elite" hands. Drop Rates - ( New Window )
Not so sure Lewan won't be there. Have some teams really QB hungry, and I don't think they let Bortles and the others go by. If Lewan isn't there - may not be the end of the world - some think Martin is the better pick
Off field issues aside, do any scouts actually think Martin is a better NFL prospect than Lewan? Or do they think he has a higher floor? Or is he just a better fit for the Giants because he can play LG at a high level if Beatty bounces back?
would be Donald, Evans, Martin or Lewan. I wouldn't be opposed to Ebron but there seems to be decent TE's available later which would be more than adequate. Donald and Evans are my top two.
I think the smartest thing the Giants could do would be to draft Zack Martin at 12, slide back into the end of the first and take a guy like Sua'Filo, and then select one of the many talented WR in the 3rd or 4th.
I think the term safer or surer pick has been used re: Martin. I don't know. There seems to be a consensus that Robinson and Matthews will go before we pick and most seem to think Lewan is the next logical choice.
Some think Martin is the better pick, but that is probably a minority opinion.
Know shit. After the draft see how accurate they are. Besides the first couple of picks they are usually off.
Not really. They are going to be awful at predicting the exact location a player is taken (aside from maybe the top 5 picks), but they often get the range correct.
I think the term safer or surer pick has been used re: Martin. I don't know. There seems to be a consensus that Robinson and Matthews will go before we pick and most seem to think Lewan is the next logical choice.
Some think Martin is the better pick, but that is probably a minority opinion.
As a LT prospect, (almost) everything I've seen has Lewan as the consensus #3 guy. But Martin definitely seems to have a higher floor and many reports think that at worst he'll be an above average OG (whereas it's OT or bust for Lewan).
is in the same mold as Pugh was coming out. Smart, extremely durable, can play multiple positions, light on his feet, and appears to be a technician/hard worker. It's essential the Giants rebuild their line with guys like this. I love Lewan, considering we already have a left tackle and are paying him well, where else does he fall? I'm also fairly certain Lewan is not going to be available when we pick - which makes this a moot point.
with the way the roster looks, OL is still my biggest concern, and that trumps TE by a wide margin.
Agree and disagree. I think OL, TE, and DL depth are all huge needs. But I think the biggest need for the OL is an interior guy which can be gotten in the 2nd/3rd round range. Similarly I think they can get a day 1 starter at TE in the 2nd-4th round range.
But the DL right now is JPP, Jenkins, Hankins, and a lot of questions with Kiwi, Moore, Kuhn. They barely have a starting group, let alone a solid 6-7 man rotation that TC likes.
Thus, I think DL (Donald, Ealy, Jernigan, etc) will be the pick at #12. Unless they love Evans or another WR.
I think the smartest thing the Giants could do would be to draft Zack Martin at 12, slide back into the end of the first and take a guy like Sua'Filo, and then select one of the many talented WR in the 3rd or 4th.
I like that plan, but we'd also need to get some defensive linemen at some point.
I really think that the two OL you mention are plug and play guys, Su'a-Filo more so at OG and Martin more so at OT. Martin might have to be trained up a bit to be ready to play the OG spot.
with the way the roster looks, OL is still my biggest concern, and that trumps TE by a wide margin.
Agree and disagree. I think OL, TE, and DL depth are all huge needs. But I think the biggest need for the OL is an interior guy which can be gotten in the 2nd/3rd round range. Similarly I think they can get a day 1 starter at TE in the 2nd-4th round range.
But the DL right now is JPP, Jenkins, Hankins, and a lot of questions with Kiwi, Moore, Kuhn. They barely have a starting group, let alone a solid 6-7 man rotation that TC likes.
Thus, I think DL (Donald, Ealy, Jernigan, etc) will be the pick at #12. Unless they love Evans or another WR.
Ealy really looks like an RDE type.. I don't know how much of a fit he'd be here.
"Yeah there's picks they haven't hit on. The Marvin Austin pick they didn't hit on, a couple others, but you go to every team in the league and you're going to find that.
"It's what have you done for me lately? They didn't win last year or the year before, so now everybody's a bum. But everybody who's a bum now was a superstar two years ago.
"Guess what? They don't change. They're the same people."
There is talent still on this team. Combine it with this draft and FA we may be in very good shape to make a run next year.
The thing about the draft is every year, a guy projected
to go high drops and some team picks a guy. whom the "experts" say should go lower, high so who knows really. I think it all depends on how many quarterbacks are chosen in the top 10.
If 4 go, which has been predicted by some, then it is a good possibility one or the other will be there at 12. I would be flexible in this draft. If the guy you want is not there and your next choice is someone you think you can get later I would suggest trading down and picking up more picks.
is the last time the Giants traded up to get BACK into the 1st or 2nd? I can't recall a single time in the last 10-12 years. Not saying that's a bad thing. But it might be a smart move considering we need talent across the board and can't afford to sit and wait to see who falls in our lap in the 3rd and 4th rounds.
especially what he says about how Fewell uses LBs. And despite the fact Barr looks like a beast, he questions whether he'd fit our scheme, which makes sense
part of the article was actually comparing how things "used to be" when he was part of the draft process to today. I wonder what he means when he said there were ways to "stash" a player. Part of me misses the way you used to be able to draft a core group of players and keep them for long periods of time
part of the article was actually comparing how things "used to be" when he was part of the draft process to today. I wonder what he means when he said there were ways to "stash" a player. Part of me misses the way you used to be able to draft a core group of players and keep them for long periods of time
The Redskins under Bobby Beathard and Joe Gibbs used to stash players all the time back in the 80s, particularly QBs (i.e., Mark Rypien and Stan Humphries).
Lewan's problems were already known, so the arraignment is nothing new. I thought the actual arraignment would make teams pause, but apparently not. And it's easy to see how Ebron could be a game changer, even with his drops.
He also doesn't seem to think the Giants will select Donald, that they will instead choose Evans.
:(
I don't think there's any chance.
Not so sure Lewan won't be there. Have some teams really QB hungry, and I don't think they let Bortles and the others go by. If Lewan isn't there - may not be the end of the world - some think Martin is the better pick
That gnawing feeling is something chewing on your leg.
Don't see him getting by Cle.or Oak.
3m
Gil Brandt @Gil_Brandt
Mike Evans has the best hands I've seen since Calvin Johnson.
3m
Gil Brandt @Gil_Brandt
Mike Evans has the best hands I've seen since Calvin Johnson.
That's surprising that Gil Brandt would say such a thing considering that Calvin is usually among the big guys in drops, IIRC.
I like Schwartz and if Walton is able to shake the rust off before the season starts, he's a solid C. But what about Beatty? Even before the leg injury he looked pretty bad. I have faith he'll improve on last year if the leg is healthy, but he still isn't a franchise LT. Pugh is a very good lineman and Snee is toast. At best, he's a backup G/mentor. While the line has improved, it's still a question mark. Drafting Martin could help answer a lot of those questions since he can play either T or G spot and do it at a high level.
I'd really like to see the 1st 4 rounds go OL/TE/C/WR.
Martin
Niklas
Swanson
Brandon Coleman
that is my concern on Evans. it is not clear on whether he is going to be able to get open at the next level. I'm warming to the idea of him as a selection but there are other directions I would much rather go...
Would be disappointed if Lewan went right before the Giants pick. What a tease.
With all these QB's and those two names going within the top 10, the Giants are certainly in position for a top player yet the player might not be a top need.
Brandt has a heck of resume but his track record and statements over the past few years is more reflective of a guy in need of retirement. :)
Lot of choices but the offense is dysfunctional without more blockers. Tough choice IMO.
Martin
Niklas
Swanson
[/quote]
Those 3 picks would certainly solidify the OL. Not sure where Martin goes but he appears to be one the safer choices. An OLineman which can play multiple positions, a 270lbs TE and a center who could play guard is a nice.
(lol, real nice so long as Donald doesn't become Warren Sapp)
SNYGiants retweeted
10m
P. Schrager @PSchrags
Already got one text from a scout on site... "Umm, Mike Evans. Wow." ... Did the TAMU wideout upstage Johnny today?
3m
Gil Brandt @Gil_Brandt
Mike Evans has the best hands I've seen since Calvin Johnson.
Not really that high of praise. While Megatron may be the GOAT WR, he's not especially known for great hands. That guy would be Fitzgerald.
2013 Stats (drop percentage)
C. Johnson: 5.1%
Garcon: 3.9%
Brown: 4.2%
A Johnson: 4.4%
Green: 3.9%
Wright: 5.0%
Bryant: 3.8%
Jeffrey: 3.4%
Gordon: 5.0%
Graham: 2.1%
Douglas: 4.6%
Boldin: 3.9%
Nelson: 2.4%
Gonzalez: 2.5%
Hilton: 2.9%
Jackson: 2.4%
Fitz: 1.5%
Cameron: 1.7%
Gates: 3.5%
Thomas: 2.4%
The above are players in the top 25 in catches with better drop rates than Megatron. So out of the top 25, there are only 5 guys with higher drop rates than Calvin. Granted some of his probably come against double/triple teams, but he still doesn't exactly have "elite" hands.
Drop Rates - ( New Window )
That's a lot an Eli doesn't exactly throw the tightest spiral.
Not so sure Lewan won't be there. Have some teams really QB hungry, and I don't think they let Bortles and the others go by. If Lewan isn't there - may not be the end of the world - some think Martin is the better pick
Off field issues aside, do any scouts actually think Martin is a better NFL prospect than Lewan? Or do they think he has a higher floor? Or is he just a better fit for the Giants because he can play LG at a high level if Beatty bounces back?
Lewan = no character - ( New Window )
Bingo.
That's a lot an Eli doesn't exactly throw the tightest spiral.
11% is ridiculous. Some notable names that were above 9.0% last year:
Welker: 9%
Davone Bess: 10.5%
Reggie Bush: 11.3%
Shane Vereen: 10.1%
Aaron Dobson: 9.7%
Tavon Austin: 10.1%
Kenbrell Thompkins: 10.0% (amazing what Brady had to work with)
Le'Veon Bell: 9.1%
Doug Martin: 20.8% (only 17 attempts)
Arian Foster: 11.4% (only 22 attempts)
Welker + a lot of rookies and RBs. Brady must've been greasing the ball or something with 3 guys over 9.7% drop rates.
Some think Martin is the better pick, but that is probably a minority opinion.
Not really. They are going to be awful at predicting the exact location a player is taken (aside from maybe the top 5 picks), but they often get the range correct.
Some think Martin is the better pick, but that is probably a minority opinion.
As a LT prospect, (almost) everything I've seen has Lewan as the consensus #3 guy. But Martin definitely seems to have a higher floor and many reports think that at worst he'll be an above average OG (whereas it's OT or bust for Lewan).
Agree and disagree. I think OL, TE, and DL depth are all huge needs. But I think the biggest need for the OL is an interior guy which can be gotten in the 2nd/3rd round range. Similarly I think they can get a day 1 starter at TE in the 2nd-4th round range.
But the DL right now is JPP, Jenkins, Hankins, and a lot of questions with Kiwi, Moore, Kuhn. They barely have a starting group, let alone a solid 6-7 man rotation that TC likes.
Thus, I think DL (Donald, Ealy, Jernigan, etc) will be the pick at #12. Unless they love Evans or another WR.
I like that plan, but we'd also need to get some defensive linemen at some point.
I really think that the two OL you mention are plug and play guys, Su'a-Filo more so at OG and Martin more so at OT. Martin might have to be trained up a bit to be ready to play the OG spot.
Quote:
with the way the roster looks, OL is still my biggest concern, and that trumps TE by a wide margin.
Agree and disagree. I think OL, TE, and DL depth are all huge needs. But I think the biggest need for the OL is an interior guy which can be gotten in the 2nd/3rd round range. Similarly I think they can get a day 1 starter at TE in the 2nd-4th round range.
But the DL right now is JPP, Jenkins, Hankins, and a lot of questions with Kiwi, Moore, Kuhn. They barely have a starting group, let alone a solid 6-7 man rotation that TC likes.
Thus, I think DL (Donald, Ealy, Jernigan, etc) will be the pick at #12. Unless they love Evans or another WR.
Ealy really looks like an RDE type.. I don't know how much of a fit he'd be here.
"It's what have you done for me lately? They didn't win last year or the year before, so now everybody's a bum. But everybody who's a bum now was a superstar two years ago.
"Guess what? They don't change. They're the same people."
There is talent still on this team. Combine it with this draft and FA we may be in very good shape to make a run next year.
If 4 go, which has been predicted by some, then it is a good possibility one or the other will be there at 12. I would be flexible in this draft. If the guy you want is not there and your next choice is someone you think you can get later I would suggest trading down and picking up more picks.
As always, it will be interesting...
If 4 or 5 QBs are selected in the first 11. picks, a really terrific player should be available at 12.
How do you want to get back into the first without giving up a 3 or 4? Do you think 2 and 5 get it done? I don't think it would.
The Redskins under Bobby Beathard and Joe Gibbs used to stash players all the time back in the 80s, particularly QBs (i.e., Mark Rypien and Stan Humphries).
i think somebody we all think is late 1/early 2 (perhaps lewan, kouandjio, shazier, c.j. mosley, etc.) is there at 43