Interest in Evans/Ebron is all just a smokescreen

"in previous years they've always drafted guys they never interviewed or showed interest in"

and rarely deviate unless the unexpected occurs..I doubt teams take too seriously purported interest in certain areas. They may surmise various needs, but as to being smokescreened? Not all that often, imv

good options at 12, I doubt we really need to smoke screen. I hope it's not freaking Donald at 12.

I like how you say this all as if it's a fact.

Why not?

He's the most disruptive defensive player in this draft outside of Clowney.

they have their sights set on Arthur Lynch from Georgia in the 4th round. With Evans, it is a possibility. Though I could see Donald in the first, then an OL, then a WR.

Evans/Ebron is mainly interest fueled by press speculation that these players are targets. This tells us nothing about who the Giants will eventually select at #12 if, in fact, they don't wind up trading down. The Giants will have by draft day scripted multiple options, and it all depends on how things shake out.

Budding asshat. Carry on, please.

Evans. He's an explosive player - a bigger Nicks before the injuries. I don't want Ebron. He's got enough size and speed, but he isn't a warrior.

In comment 11592132 EliMcAdooEra said:

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Why not? He's the most disruptive defensive player in this draft outside of Clowney.

I don't think he will make a good pro. How many DTs in the first round are impact players? Suh off the top of my head. Not to mention from what I have seen of him he needs to win with speed and explosiveness right away because when a guard or tackle combo, or block him, and negate his skill set, he gets blocked easily. Basically, he has to win right away before the OL locks on.

Can he do this consistently against 6'4-6'6 300-345 lb NFL linemen? I have my doubts. Again, how many DTs in the first round are impact guys? Some may be solid like a Linjo was for us. However, does that warrant the 12th overall pick? I'd rather draft Lewan or Martin and add to the OL which needs upgrades.

Not to mention we need offensive upgrades. Drafting a DT is a luxury pick at this stage.

DT is a NEED pick.

Last season we went into the season carrying 5 strong DTs (Joseph, Jenkins, Patterson, Hankins, Rogers)

This season we have 2 strong DTs (Hankins, Jenkins) and an unknown in Kuhn.

Jerry Reese likes to carry at least 4 impact DTs on the roster.

Donald at 12 makes the most sense without a doubt.

I'm cleaning up the archives now and everyone and their mother knew they wanted Hakeem Nicks. It's in a bunch of News and Notes updates.

I have little doubt Ebron is their guy.

Heck they have two features with him on Giants.com right now.

that certainly may be part of it but I think the interest in those players is very real. If Donald is gone then those other guys become options.

Donald is one of the 'cleanest' prospects out there in that he's got just about everything: character, elite production throughout his career (early on and later), amazing measurables (except for height, weight at his height is very good/low center of gravity), dominant at higher levels of play such as the senior bowl practices and game.

Giants already have everything they need to make a grade. As opposed to an Ebron or Lewan who they may need to speak further to about dedication to the game/commitment to get better etc. and form their final grade thereafter.

in the Palladino book, he talks about how everyone knew they wanted Shockey. Accorsi trade up ONE spot to get him.

MANY.

Suh and Gerald McCoy in 2010

Marcell Dareus, Nick Fairley, Corey Liuget, and Phil Taylor in 2011

Dontari Poe and Fletcher Cox in 2012

Sheldon Richardson and Star Lotulelei in 2013


What a silly question.

In comment 11592175 Eric from BBI said:

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I'm cleaning up the archives now and everyone and their mother knew they wanted Hakeem Nicks. It's in a bunch of News and Notes updates.

Not always. Aaron Ross had no idea.He was also a pretty 'clean' prospect to make a grade on. Prince too I think but he was a suprise dropper.

In comment 11592160 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

In comment 11592132 EliMcAdooEra said: Quote: Why not? He's the most disruptive defensive player in this draft outside of Clowney. I don't think he will make a good pro. How many DTs in the first round are impact players? Suh off the top of my head. Not to mention from what I have seen of him he needs to win with speed and explosiveness right away because when a guard or tackle combo, or block him, and negate his skill set, he gets blocked easily. Basically, he has to win right away before the OL locks on. Can he do this consistently against 6'4-6'6 300-345 lb NFL linemen? I have my doubts. Again, how many DTs in the first round are impact guys? Some may be solid like a Linjo was for us. However, does that warrant the 12th overall pick? I'd rather draft Lewan or Martin and add to the OL which needs upgrades. Not to mention we need offensive upgrades. Drafting a DT is a luxury pick at this stage.

Totally agree and very rarely do I advocate a DT in the first without something totally eye-popping about the prsopect. Look at this kids production it is very rare to see those kind of numbers from a DE let alone a DT!

He's dominated every single type of gradeable aspect of his career. All he's missing is height as his weight is very good for a man his size.

I'm pretty sure in 2007 we all knew they wanted whichever of Revis, Hall or Ross dropped to us. Though many of us wanted them to take Beason.

who we would like the Giants to pick, or even who we think they will pick. But to make flat out statements that you know who they will pick is just silly. C'mon, surely you can see that.

wants Aaron Donald. Its not at all obvious that the Giants want him.

In comment 11592173 EliMcAdooEra said:

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DT is a NEED pick. Last season we went into the season carrying 5 strong DTs (Joseph, Jenkins, Patterson, Hankins, Rogers) This season we have 2 strong DTs (Hankins, Jenkins) and an unknown in Kuhn. Jerry Reese likes to carry at least 4 impact DTs on the roster. Donald at 12 makes the most sense without a doubt.

We have other NEEDS. We have 2 first rounds on the DL, a second rounder, Kuhn and Jenkins. You want another damn first rounder?

We have more urgent needs and that's the offensive side of the ball. 3/5 OL positions, A WR, a TE, another RB. Our offense is what's broken. You can always draft a DT later in the draft.

Here are first round DTs that have been taken. Sorry for the formatting. I copied and pasted it.

Quote:

2013 Draft 13 New York Jets Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri SEC from Tampa Bay[R1 - 4] 1 14 Carolina Panthers Star Lotulelei DT Utah Pac-12 1 23 Minnesota Vikings Sharrif Floyd DT Florida SEC 1 28 Denver Broncos Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina ACC 2012 draft 1 11 Kansas City Chiefs Dontari Poe† DT Memphis C-USA 1 12 Philadelphia Eagles Fletcher Cox DT Mississippi State SEC from Seattle[R1 - 7] 1 14 St. Louis Rams Michael Brockers DT LSU SEC from Dallas[R1 - 8] 2011 Draft 1 13 Detroit Lions Nick Fairley DT Auburn SEC 1 18 San Diego Chargers Corey Liuget DT Illinois Big Ten 1 21 Cleveland Browns Phil Taylor DT Baylor Big 12 from Kansas City [R1 - 5] 2010 Draft 1 9 Green Bay Packers B. J. Raji† DT Boston College ACC 1 24 Atlanta Falcons Peria Jerry DT Ole Miss SEC 1 32 Pittsburgh Steelers Evander "Ziggy" Hood DT Missouri Big 12

I don't see any DT outside of Suh, that's freaking amazing that warrants a 12th pick. These DTs are solid to above average in terms of productive. They remind me of how LinJo did for us. LinJo, for us, was a solid DT, who played the role we asked perfectly. He wasn't an all pro or impact player, but he was solid. A lot of the 34 DTs were very good guys. We run a 43. I don't see other DTs that are early 1st rounders that are impact players. I don't see Donald as one too.

I don't see Donald as an impact player. Like I said, not that many first round DTs are. If there are later round DTs, then we always draft one. Hell, we can bring in undrafted FAs too.

Lewan is a waste of a pick. What's the point of drafting him? There is none. Beatty will start at LT in 2014. Pugh will start at RT in 2014. Lewan has no spot as a starter.

Lewan is strictly a RT in the NFL. He's too tall to play guard, and he doesn't have left tackle feet.

RT is our strongest position on the O-Line with Pugh.

Lewan is not an option at 12 at all. It makes ZERO sense.

Why is that? Is there a leak in the organization or why do you think that is? I remember the safety situation too. Didn't everyone guess or know we'd draft Kenny P. because we wanted a safety? Some reason I thought people guessed on that pick correctly too.

I think the only real shocker I guess was JPP. I think that caught a lot of fans and even media people off guard.

is the best DT in this draft.

as bad as we need anything else and Donald is arguably the best pass rusher in the draft.

Also, Jenkins is 33.

DT is a need, thanks to the failure to resign Joseph.

on the board at #12, and a team wanted to trade for multi-round picks, why wouldn't the Giants even consider trading out of the first round? The Giants seem to have always trusted their own scouts and internal evaluation of players more than prevailing league sentiment. What if they see this as an excellent opportunity to restock a badly depleted team?

In comment 11592190 EliMcAdooEra said:

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MANY. Suh and Gerald McCoy in 2010 Marcell Dareus, Nick Fairley, Corey Liuget, and Phil Taylor in 2011 Dontari Poe and Fletcher Cox in 2012 Sheldon Richardson and Star Lotulelei in 2013 What a silly question.

Eli do me a favor for comparison sake, how does Donalds production compare to all those guys listed?

I think it's better than all of them isnt it?

Um, Suh wasn't even the best DT in that 1st round. Gerald McCoy has been more dominant than Suh. Both are amazing DTs.

Sheldon Richardson was just named Defensive Player of the Year for crying out loud.

You're making TERRIBLE points.

and sometimes they're not (Kiwi, JPP, Ross).

1. Our #3 DT is currently Markus Kuhn, who hasn't done squat.

2. Cullen Jenkins is 33 and has 1 year left on his deal. So we clearly need a 3-technique for the future. Insert Donald.

3. We have no 4th DT behind Kuhn.

I would be happy it is any of the following

martin lewan ealy or lee

I would be really excited if we landed ebron, evans, donald

I don't get what height has to do with how donald will pan out. when i look at his tape, he doesn't look short. he tackles a qb and running back together. he batted down passed. it doesn't make sense. the guy looks really conditioned to play every snap. he looks like he would be an asset in a nascar package. he would create pressure up the middle and make the DEs look better by QBs eing flushed toward them.

This is the thing. For the people want a tackle in round 1, that doesn't fix the biggest problem on the line which is center. Now, i wouldn't mind because beatty broke his leg and he blew last year so it would be nice insurance. But WALTON cannot be the starting center with no competition. sorry. and i don't think we take a center in round 1. i think we can grab a good center in rounds 2-4.

I would like a big time playmaker outside of cruz. how ever, i don't want to watch team run up and down the field on our defense. That D line right now is average at best. I think hankins will be better than people think. Though, i would play jenkins as a joker DE DT. I don't trust moore too much.

we have a strond secondary. imagine if we had a fierce D line too. our line backers that we have could look really good with a better D line to go along with our secondary. The way to win football games is to get after the QB and protect the QB. drafting donald would help get after the qb because he can also stuff the run, and for loses. last year, it seemed like we never made any tackles for loses. put qbs in 3rd and longs and i think we should win more games by this alone. Our offense can be fixed in rounds 2 -4. grab a TE a center and a WR.

Who they are interested in, off the top of my head:

Phillips
Shockey
Dwayne
Nicks
Eli
Derek Brown
Elliott

There seems to be an unusual amount of chatter about Hebron this year. Much like Dayne, I really hope it isn't the case, but it is looking like we will be stuck with Ebron.

In comment 11592231 EliMcAdooEra said:

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Um, Suh wasn't even the best DT in that 1st round. Gerald McCoy has been more dominant than Suh. Both are amazing DTs. Sheldon Richardson was just named Defensive Player of the Year for crying out loud. You're making TERRIBLE points.

Um, what system is Richardson in? Do we run a 34?

GM has his best year last year, his 3rd year. Do we have 3 years to wait for a damn DT to give us return on our investment?

We have more needs on offense than defense. I personally don't think Donald is worth the 12th overall pick.

1 on 1 Donald will dominate so as 1 poster pointed out his speed and quickness can be negated by a double team most likely)or comb block (maybe). (of course he's never seen those before NOT!)

Once 2 interior linemen are occupied with Donald that means JPP, KIwi/Da monster and Jenkins are one on one. Well i'm sure that they won't leave a healthy JPP 1 on 1 so that means either the TE or the RB or both will be asked to at the very least chip block to contain JPP

Leaving the 2 WR's matched up with Prince and DRC while Rolle, Thurmond and a LB watch the #3 WR or RB or the later coming out TE/RB

So in effect Donald limits the passing options of the offensive and make the entire Defense more dominate by being able to severly limiting the offenses options.

Thus we will get more stops on 3rd down

Very well said and on point.

In comment 11592269 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

In comment 11592231 EliMcAdooEra said: Quote: Um, Suh wasn't even the best DT in that 1st round. Gerald McCoy has been more dominant than Suh. Both are amazing DTs. Sheldon Richardson was just named Defensive Player of the Year for crying out loud. You're making TERRIBLE points. Um, what system is Richardson in? Do we run a 34? GM has his best year last year, his 3rd year. Do we have 3 years to wait for a damn DT to give us return on our investment? We have more needs on offense than defense. I personally don't think Donald is worth the 12th overall pick.

Anish lets say the Giants feel he is an exceptional talent and near instant impact player at DT. Would you have an issue getting an OL in the second where many pundits feel is the best value in this draft for an OL and then a WR/TE in the third where also there will be some value due to the tremendous depth at WR (we are picking in the first half of each round too as you know).

they made it no secret that they wanted him

Last year they made a significant effort to bring in a number of wide-body DT's to fix a struggling run defense in a division characterized by large offensive lineman. Wouldn't it seem counterproductive for them to now take an undersized DT who, if he has any deficiencies, might have exactly that problem? Particularly at #12?

how it pans out. It's all hypothetical. Based on Ross's drafts so far they have sucked. Do I trust he can have a great draft now? No.. He hasn't shown shit. Since Reese became GM, and hired Ross our drafts have gone down hill as a while.

If that's the case let's see how it would pan out. We can't swing and miss this draft. This year is very important. If we fuck up this draft and our team suffers it has the potential to impact the coaching staff, in terms of employment and that will in turn effect Eli. I doubt we'd invest in Eli longer, if our offense fucks up.

Let's see what Ross and Reese can do in the draft, and how our FA signings do. That's why I stated this year will be very exciting. So much change and now we have to see how it all comes together.

to fix a "broken offense" after almost exclusively spending FA dollars on defense and ST is to draft...more defense.

Sorry, not buying it. Giants need OL or weapons for Eli, unless someone unexpected (Mack) falls to us, i cant imagine Reese not using his high picks on that side of the ball.

Donald will be Jenkins future replacement if drafted like Hankins was for Linval

In comment 11592305 NVA_Blue said:

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to fix a "broken offense" after almost exclusively spending FA dollars on defense and ST is to draft...more defense. Sorry, not buying it. Giants need OL or weapons for Eli, unless someone unexpected (Mack) falls to us, i cant imagine Reese not using his high picks on that side of the ball.

Exactly...Sounds like they have been setting themselves up to go O O O in this years draft

Now is not the time to spend 12 on a backup DT

is flawed. One thing they've never been good at is smokescreens (among other screens).

Quote:

Think about it...the Giants would never make it obvious that they're targeting certain guys leading up to the draft

Um, yes they would. They do it all the time.

which is why it's impossible to make any kind of declarative statements in regards to who they WILL pick. I'm a big fan of Donald and would love for them to pick him but who knows what the Giants think.

One thing I absolutely do know...if they do pick Donald, this place will detonate the minute he gives one yard on a run play up the middle.

There are two players in this draft I'm very interested in following regardless of who drafts them as the pro/con debates have been very interesting....Johnny Football and Donald.

It's funny because one would never think that. Like Eric said, when looking back it is surprising on some of the picks we knew for a while we wanted those specific players. Nicks or Britt was the question. Nicks was a popular choice. I remember Kenny P. for a while because we needed a safety.

I wonder if that's the case this year or not.

We made a number of FA signings on offense.

We signed a starting RB (Jennings), a starting LG (Schwartz), the likely starting C (Walton), a potential starting RG (Jerry), and a #3/#4 WR (Manningham)

So...you are wrong.

And, just because we take Donald in Round 1 doesn't mean we can't use the next few picks (Rounds 2-4) all on offense.

We can get an OL, WR, TE in Rounds 2-4.

Not necessarily.

Donald can start at LDE on 1st/2nd downs. He's versatile - played both DT and DE in college. He would be a great fit at LDE for us.

Then on 3rd downs, he can move inside with Jenkins to rush the passer.

We will Draft Zack Martin....its kind of like last year where it is a slight reach but a safe pick. No Mock drafts had Pugh going that high but all it takes is for one team to like you. Obviously our scouts know more then these websites. Most Mocks have Martin going to the Dolphins at 19 but i think Martin will def be our pick...hes a safe pick and a need and fits what the Giants draft. As much as i like Donald Reese has never drafted a DT in the first round but he has drafted pass rushers which Donald is so maybe hes the exemption.

We drafted Joseph to replace Cofield

We drafted Hankins to replace Joseph

It makes plenty of sense that we draft Donald to replace Jenkins

Cullen is 33 and has 1 year left on his deal. Giants currently have no 3-technique for 2015.