I was just looking at the Leonard Marshall play that Eric just posted - and thinking that when the Giants drafted JPP - he was more the body type of a Giant than what I remembered in Donald - and I went back and looked.
Donald is only 6' tall and 285 - Linval Joseph 6' 4" and 325 - Hankins is 6'2 320 - JPP is 6'5" and 285
In my opinion - Donald just doesn't fit the Giants profile - so as much as he has talent - I just don't think you are going to see this guy in a Giants uniform - even if he's available to pick at 12 - you are going to see a Giant athlete drafted - someone over 6' Tall
Evans and Ebron both fall more into that category so does Jake Mathews
Taylor Lewan - 6'8" 315 lbs - now that's a Giant - In my opinion it's got be one of those 4 if the Giants stay at 12.
Wait. That sounds wrong.
Mike Patterson is not a starter - but even he is 6' 1"
Marvin AUstn 6' 2" 312
I think we all agree that we want a guy who can outright play - any of the 4 players I mentioned can play - and they fit the profile
The Giants want - well Giants
Size doesn't mean everything - but Giants = Giants
If he were taller and had a bigger frame, he could add weight without losing his quickness, but he is about maxed out already, so this is the issue with Donald. The one thing that may actually work in his favor is he is so short, that would it be possible, with the right coaching, to teach him how to use his leverage to hold the point of attack. Because we already know he has great strength, if the Giants feel that he could be coached to do this, and he already has what they need physically to do this, and they also feel that his quickness could also work against NFL guards and he could penetrate the defensive line on this level, then this will be our pick. This would be a skill that this team could really use.
I fully acknowledge that I just am not qualified to know the answers to the questions. Maybe some of you feel a lot more certain, I know some want to talk like they know, but I am not here to have a pissing contest to who is right, I am a fan that just loves the Giants and know enough to understand how important a 12th pick in the draft is.
I know this, I want to believe he can do it at this level and then I would really want him to be the pick. I am afraid he won't and then if he is a bust, this is a huge setback, to blow a 12th pick would be devastating.
I've never been this sold on a Giants hopeful draft pick.
I really want Donald as a NY Giant.
Our defense will immediately become one of the NFL's best.
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That had the giants pick Nick Greisen instead of Zack Thomas. I think it was Greisen or someone else who amounted to nothing. Size doesn't mean everything.
Size doesn't mean everything - but Giants = Giants
What does that even mean?
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In comment 11594451 cokeduplt said:
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That had the giants pick Nick Greisen instead of Zack Thomas. I think it was Greisen or someone else who amounted to nothing. Size doesn't mean everything.
Size doesn't mean everything - but Giants = Giants
a
What does that even mean?
Cokey - this is what Tom Coughlin says it means:
If he were taller and had a bigger frame, he could add weight without losing his quickness, but he is about maxed out already, so this is the issue with Donald. The one thing that may actually work in his favor is he is so short, that would it be possible, with the right coaching, to teach him how to use his leverage to hold the point of attack. Because we already know he has great strength, if the Giants feel that he could be coached to do this, and he already has what they need physically to do this, and they also feel that his quickness could also work against NFL guards and he could penetrate the defensive line on this level, then this will be our pick. This would be a skill that this team could really use.
I fully acknowledge that I just am not qualified to know the answers to the questions. Maybe some of you feel a lot more certain, I know some want to talk like they know, but I am not here to have a pissing contest to who is right, I am a fan that just loves the Giants and know enough to understand how important a 12th pick in the draft is.
I know this, I want to believe he can do it at this level and then I would really want him to be the pick. I am afraid he won't and then if he is a bust, this is a huge setback, to blow a 12th pick would be devastating.
Donald is the Charles Barkley of DTs. HIs strength determination and quickness will more than make up for lack of height.
Sammy,
You say it yourself
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In comment 11594454 gidiefor said:
I just think they will regret passing on him. His size is his only negative, his stats ans every other measure able are off the charts.
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In comment 11594451 cokeduplt said:
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That had the giants pick Nick Greisen instead of Zack Thomas. I think it was Greisen or someone else who amounted to nothing. Size doesn't mean everything.
Size doesn't mean everything - but Giants = Giants
a
What does that even mean?
Cokey - this is what Tom Coughlin says it means:
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big human beings in the NFC East
How many DTs have you ever seen rack up the numbers hes got over rhe last 3 years. Suhs numbers arent even that close. His ceiling is HIGHER than Geno Atkins.
Maybe it's time they thought outside the profile.
Oh, and stop comparing Donald to DEs and one-tech DTs.
But they may feel he would get dominated by huge offensive guards and center's on this level. That would be why they wouldn't want him, if they didn't.
But if you love this guy, this is the player to throw out there, if he can come in and give us 75% of what Saap was, then he would make a great pick.
Does anyone know how Mayock feels about Donald fitting for the Giants? The other player that may also fit for us is Ebron. In our new offense, Ebron may be exactly what we need and would want. I worry about his drop rate, and with Eli as his QB, that could really be a problem, but he is the only TE in this draft that could give us what we need I our new offense. The old offense and he wouldn't fit.
The Giants may look at Geno Atkins.
Here's his NFL post combine profile which is similar to Donald:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/geno-atkins?id=496762
Just remember Donald was BETTER than Geno in college. His measurables are a bit better also.
You are going to find real good players now and then that are not prototypical. I don't see any risk in taking him as a 3 tech DT.
I could care less if the guy can ball.
He is over 300 lbs.
Wow. There's so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin.
Let's see...you keep saying that Donald can't hold the point of attack, but you provide no evidence of this. Meanwhile, in another thread, Dan in the Springs provides plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Name the experts that have called Donald a boom-or-bust pick. I've found exactly one- Nolan Narwocki - that isn't ridiculously high on Donald, from Mayock, to Boylhart, to Chavous, and everyone in between.
Dude, you're like bossman with better syntax.
No it doesn't the Giants PREFER a certain body type. But guess what it seems they have shown a willingness more recently to go away from it for a player with good production.
I don't think it will stop them from calling Donald's name if he were still available at 12.
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Kyle Williams (Bills) is 6'1", 303 lbs. He's a two-time All-Pro and three-time Pro Bowler. Not bad for a 5th round pick who was also considered too short for the NFL.
He is over 300 lbs.
Yeah...by three whole pounds. So, he's 18 pounds heavier than Donald, but not nearly the athlete - not even close - nor did he have the same production in college - again, not even close.
If he were taller and had a bigger frame, he could add weight without losing his quickness, but he is about maxed out already, so this is the issue with Donald. The one thing that may actually work in his favor is he is so short, that would it be possible, with the right coaching, to teach him how to use his leverage to hold the point of attack. Because we already know he has great strength, if the Giants feel that he could be coached to do this, and he already has what they need physically to do this, and they also feel that his quickness could also work against NFL guards and he could penetrate the defensive line on this level, then this will be our pick. This would be a skill that this team could really use.
I fully acknowledge that I just am not qualified to know the answers to the questions. Maybe some of you feel a lot more certain, I know some want to talk like they know, but I am not here to have a pissing contest to who is right, I am a fan that just loves the Giants and know enough to understand how important a 12th pick in the draft is.
I know this, I want to believe he can do it at this level and then I would really want him to be the pick. I am afraid he won't and then if he is a bust, this is a huge setback, to blow a 12th pick would be devastating.
Paul, This is the exact the way I feel about Donald. I want to believe, but I can't. Not at 12. You are right. It would be a huge set back, if he is chosen and he doesn't pan out, knowing that you have incredibly talented players which Gidie mentioned that were past up. I just can't convince myself. If the Giants do select him, maybe it will give me more faith in him for they are the professionals who are paid to judge such talents and make these decisions.
I already said I am no expert, what the heck more do you want me to say, the trouble is that some of you are diluted into thinking you are, so go ahead and act like you know something, have fun, just don't call me out for not buying into it though.
He's friggen awesome. A once in a decade type player at DT. He is THAT good.
Finally a post with some common sense.
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In comment 11594539 Klaatu said:
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Kyle Williams (Bills) is 6'1", 303 lbs. He's a two-time All-Pro and three-time Pro Bowler. Not bad for a 5th round pick who was also considered too short for the NFL.
He is over 300 lbs.
Yeah...by three whole pounds. So, he's 18 pounds heavier than Donald, but not nearly the athlete - not even close - nor did he have the same production in college - again, not even close.
18 lbs is a lot. I don't know if he will be good in the NFL or not. I was just hoping someone knew of a DT that in recent years(the same size as Donald) was successful in the NFL. Some want to compare him to Sapp, but Sapp was 6'2" and 300 lbs plus super quick.
He is under 6'1"......he is under 300 lbs. will he hold up physically in the NFL? That would be my concern.
The height issue(or none issue, depending) has to do with the opposite QB's sight lines. Pretty sure that's why Coach C likes his DT's taller. yes no?
Someone from after the 2000's is more what I'm looking for.
But what Reese should do, and what he will do are entirely different. They may simply want someone bigger at DT, or just have another player more highly rated. I hate to say this, but I think the Giants are more likely to draft Jay Bromley, a poor man's Aaron Donald, in the fourth or fifth, than they are to draft Donald in the first.
Well not only that, but he uses his explosive ability to get past the guard. If he doesn't win right away using his speed, he gets pushed away on a down block. So once the guard locks on him Donald gets beaten, that's assuming Donald doesn't win first.
How will he do against NFL guards who are 64'6'6 300-350 lbs? Once they lock on will they duck walk his ass to his coach? I don't want to risk drafting a DT in the first round.
But what Reese should do, and what he will do are entirely different. They may simply want someone bigger at DT, or just have another player more highly rated. I hate to say this, but I think the Giants are more likely to draft Jay Bromley, a poor man's Aaron Donald, in the fourth or fifth, than they are to draft Donald in the first.
Reese's eye for talent is awfully good especially for guys with pass rush ability. Add in his first round success. I don't think we've missed on one guy in the first (with Ross being the closest but even he was a strong contributor to two Super Bowl teams).
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He is under 6'1"......he is under 300 lbs. will he hold up physically in the NFL? That would be my concern.
Well not only that, but he uses his explosive ability to get past the guard. If he doesn't win right away using his speed, he gets pushed away on a down block. So once the guard locks on him Donald gets beaten, that's assuming Donald doesn't win first.
How will he do against NFL guards who are 64'6'6 300-350 lbs? Once they lock on will they duck walk his ass to his coach? I don't want to risk drafting a DT in the first round.
This is a truly fun debate. And over the years this is one of the first guys I'd ever advocate at DT in the first. THe production and pass rush ability is great for a DE let alone a DT. He then proceeded to dominate in all Senior Bowl practices and game and then had an amazing combine to boot. What else has this guy to do to prove pre-draft he's the goods?
Pre injuries Tuck was awfully good at DT in our pass rush packages and he was 268 with a higher center of gravity. It can be done. 285 at 6'0 is pretty stout. He isn't going to be Reggie White or Suh taking on a double team but with what else he brings to table and next to a guy like Hankins he'll be plenty good enough.
Remember years ago there were posters out there that were on the Poz bandwagon? It go so annoying that I would skip onto another thread. I like health debates, not insults. Some of these proponents of Donald have good arguments, as he proven at the college level, the unknown of how his talent translates at the pro level is legit concern given his measurements. Not questioning this could be a big mistake. The Giants staff know what they are doing. I agree. I think the Giants are going to select a more talented player than Donald at 12.
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Once a guard locks on, that is that, and how often would that happen in the NFL. Look, I am not certain either way, but the people that act like they are, trust me, they don't know any more then me. We are not experts, and even the experts are wrong often, so take everything that is said here with a grain of salt.
Pre injuries Tuck was awfully good at DT in our pass rush packages and he was 268 with a higher center of gravity. It can be done. 285 at 6'0 is pretty stout. He isn't going to be Reggie White or Suh taking on a double team but with what else he brings to table and next to a guy like Hankins he'll be plenty good enough.
Tuck was in the DT position mostly only on passing downs. He is 6'5" tall so more in the QB's line of sight.
I respect your opinion and understand your concern. Some claimed he was pushed around during the running plays during the FSU game. BBI poster Dan in the Springs took the time to evaluate every snap Donald was in that game.
Check it out:http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=492557&show_all=1
It begins at 3/26/2014 9:13pm
Some of the guys he faced in this game were just as big or bigger than NFL guys. Very impressive. (This is considered to be Donald's worse game.)
I'm just throwing this out there to see if it could allay some of your (and the NY Giant's) concerns.
Link - ( New Window )
20 lbs and 2" would at least put him in a category with another player. Right now I can't find one his same size that has been successful in the NFL in recent years.
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Its a huge risk if he can not hold the point of attack, and this is where his issues are. So let's not pretend we know, nobody knows. We have already heard many call him a boom or bust type prospect, people that are so called experts. So there are many of us nervous about Donald. BUT, I want to believe he will give us exactly what we hope. But I am not certain at all, nor are many of the experts.
I respect your opinion and understand your concern. Some claimed he was pushed around during the running plays during the FSU game. BBI poster Dan in the Springs took the time to evaluate every snap Donald was in that game.
Check it out:http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=492557&show_all=1
It begins at 3/26/2014 9:13pm
Some of the guys he faced in this game were just as big or bigger than NFL guys. Very impressive. (This is considered to be Donald's worse game.)
I'm just throwing this out there to see if it could allay some of your (and the NY Giant's) concerns.
And to further add to the point here, he was pretty much the SOLE focus of most teams on Pitts DL. Here he would have JPP (who if finally healthy) should be one of the top DEs in football with a promising Hankins, Moore and a heady vet in Jenkins playing alongside him.
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He is under 6'1"......he is under 300 lbs. will he hold up physically in the NFL? That would be my concern.
Well not only that, but he uses his explosive ability to get past the guard. If he doesn't win right away using his speed, he gets pushed away on a down block. So once the guard locks on him Donald gets beaten, that's assuming Donald doesn't win first.
How will he do against NFL guards who are 64'6'6 300-350 lbs? Once they lock on will they duck walk his ass to his coach? I don't want to risk drafting a DT in the first round.
This is a truly fun debate. And over the years this is one of the first guys I'd ever advocate at DT in the first. THe production and pass rush ability is great for a DE let alone a DT. He then proceeded to dominate in all Senior Bowl practices and game and then had an amazing combine to boot. What else has this guy to do to prove pre-draft he's the goods?
DT is a luxury pick right now. I said that before too. The offense is broken AND it's the driving force of our team. You can get defense but if the offense sucks this defense isn't going to do shit. I'd be so pissed if we drafted a DT especially since other offensive players can upgrade our offensive personnel, which kind of sucks by the way. 3/5 OL have question marks. We have NO TE. NO X, and no back up RB. We have issues offensively.
We can always draft a DT later in the draft, and let undrafted FAs come in to rotate in.
Senior Bowl was impressive by him. However, during the course of the season who did he play that is NFL worthy? Did he go against any stud offensive linemen during the course of the season? If so, what round will those prospects be? For example, they played New mexico state or something. Were those OL any good? Will they be drafted?
This goes for all the teams he played against. Are these OL going to be NFL players? I do like what he did in the senior bowl. This draft is loaded offensively. We can grab OL, TE, and WR where we pick at 12. I'd just hate drafting a freaking damn DT in round 1.
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Is bigger but sapp carried a lot of extra weight in his stomach, so is he really bigger? 20lbs of gut would make u feel better about Donald as a player?
20 lbs and 2" would at least put him in a category with another player. Right now I can't find one his same size that has been successful in the NFL in recent years.
20lbs and 2 more inches would put him as the consensus #1 pick in the draft.
His production is too good to ignore at 12.
Now one of these other GMs is probably going to grab Donald before the Giants can. Maybe Eric can lock down the site to all except registered members until the draft is over.
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In comment 11594576 AnishPatel said:
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He is under 6'1"......he is under 300 lbs. will he hold up physically in the NFL? That would be my concern.
Well not only that, but he uses his explosive ability to get past the guard. If he doesn't win right away using his speed, he gets pushed away on a down block. So once the guard locks on him Donald gets beaten, that's assuming Donald doesn't win first.
How will he do against NFL guards who are 64'6'6 300-350 lbs? Once they lock on will they duck walk his ass to his coach? I don't want to risk drafting a DT in the first round.
This is a truly fun debate. And over the years this is one of the first guys I'd ever advocate at DT in the first. THe production and pass rush ability is great for a DE let alone a DT. He then proceeded to dominate in all Senior Bowl practices and game and then had an amazing combine to boot. What else has this guy to do to prove pre-draft he's the goods?
DT is a luxury pick right now. I said that before too. The offense is broken AND it's the driving force of our team. You can get defense but if the offense sucks this defense isn't going to do shit. I'd be so pissed if we drafted a DT especially since other offensive players can upgrade our offensive personnel, which kind of sucks by the way. 3/5 OL have question marks. We have NO TE. NO X, and no back up RB. We have issues offensively.
We can always draft a DT later in the draft, and let undrafted FAs come in to rotate in.
Senior Bowl was impressive by him. However, during the course of the season who did he play that is NFL worthy? Did he go against any stud offensive linemen during the course of the season? If so, what round will those prospects be? For example, they played New mexico state or something. Were those OL any good? Will they be drafted?
This goes for all the teams he played against. Are these OL going to be NFL players? I do like what he did in the senior bowl. This draft is loaded offensively. We can grab OL, TE, and WR where we pick at 12. I'd just hate drafting a freaking damn DT in round 1.
I hear you but don't have tunnel vision on this one Anish. This kids numbers are mindblowing for a DT. He isn't in some gimmicy defense either which somehow inflated his numbers. He's also exceptionally strong ,has a great initial burst and punch and uses his body to full advantage for leverage.
I HATE DTs in the first round unless they just have absolute eye popping ability and production AND have superior pass rush ability. That's Donald and we actually have a shot to get him at 12.
Charles was more like 6'5 and he played Power Forward quite a bit
I hear you but don't have tunnel vision on this one Anish. This kids numbers are mindblowing for a DT. He isn't in some gimmicy defense either which somehow inflated his numbers. He's also exceptionally strong ,has a great initial burst and punch and uses his body to full advantage for leverage.
I HATE DTs in the first round unless they just have absolute eye popping ability and production AND have superior pass rush ability. That's Donald and we actually have a shot to get him at 12.
If he was so good we'd be calling him a top 5 pick. Moreover, if we don't get him the defense won't fall apart. Our offense stinks! We need to go balls out and upgrade it whenever we can.
We have a shot to get an OL, a possible X, or a very good TE. All of these guys are sorely needed. Reese and Coughlin haven't put their support behind RR which says a lot. Cruz is coming back from a knee and we got nothing afterwards. We have ZERO at TE and like I mentioned 3/5 OL spots aren't good.
That's pretty god awful. If we have a shot to go offense and even upgrade one of the spots, you do it. We have a franchise QB in his prime off a shitty season for many reasons. Another bad season could cost the staff their jobs. If that worst case happens, I don't see us re-signing Eli.
We owe it to add offensive personnel. If we have a shot at OL, possible X or TE then you have to go for it. There is no messing around. If we have a shit show year this team can see major changes.
However, even IF he is as you say...can Fewell even take advantage of him? or is Fewell too schooled in the d-backs forward and vanilla d-line/two gapping DTs?
I think, regardless of this player, one day when we start running each down from the D line back, and alternating attacks there,...we will be very entertained!
We can go OL quite comfortably in rd 2 AND likely get a very good one then go WR in rd 3 . Due to the extreme depth at wideout (which might be the deepest position in a deep draft) we have a pretty good chance of getting a good WR at 73 as well. We will be drafting to the strengths of rounds 2 and 3 in the top half of each round. Crockett Gilmore in rd 4 or someone of that ilk.
We have a shot to get an OL, a possible X, or a very good TE. All of these guys are sorely needed. Reese and Coughlin haven't put their support behind RR which says a lot. Cruz is coming back from a knee and we got nothing afterwards. We have ZERO at TE and like I mentioned 3/5 OL spots aren't good.
That's pretty god awful. If we have a shot to go offense and even upgrade one of the spots, you do it. We have a franchise QB in his prime off a shitty season for many reasons. Another bad season could cost the staff their jobs. If that worst case happens, I don't see us re-signing Eli.
We owe it to add offensive personnel. If we have a shot at OL, possible X or TE then you have to go for it. There is no messing around. If we have a shit show year this team can see major changes.
Your best argument against Donald is that the defense will not fall apart without him. Agreed.
However, neither Ebron or Evans is without some pretty strong doubts.
My idea is to grab Donald if possible (I believe he's the best play maker in this draft) and go all out for offense with 2-7.
That's 6 guys. I'm sure you're aware of some outstanding WR prospects that expect to go round 2. Then for TE, why not grab Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Troy Niklas or C.J. Fiedorowicz. Then grab Marcus Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Moses or Richardson.
I'm thinking you get your BPA first then draft for need and offense is NEED.
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Is bigger but sapp carried a lot of extra weight in his stomach, so is he really bigger? 20lbs of gut would make u feel better about Donald as a player?
20 lbs and 2" would at least put him in a category with another player. Right now I can't find one his same size that has been successful in the NFL in recent years.
Cullen Jenkins.
Ty - was worried nobody would recognize that.
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If he was so good we'd be calling him a top 5 pick. Moreover, if we don't get him the defense won't fall apart. Our offense stinks! We need to go balls out and upgrade it whenever we can.
We have a shot to get an OL, a possible X, or a very good TE. All of these guys are sorely needed. Reese and Coughlin haven't put their support behind RR which says a lot. Cruz is coming back from a knee and we got nothing afterwards. We have ZERO at TE and like I mentioned 3/5 OL spots aren't good.
That's pretty god awful. If we have a shot to go offense and even upgrade one of the spots, you do it. We have a franchise QB in his prime off a shitty season for many reasons. Another bad season could cost the staff their jobs. If that worst case happens, I don't see us re-signing Eli.
We owe it to add offensive personnel. If we have a shot at OL, possible X or TE then you have to go for it. There is no messing around. If we have a shit show year this team can see major changes.
Your best argument against Donald is that the defense will not fall apart without him. Agreed.
However, neither Ebron or Evans is without some pretty strong doubts.
My idea is to grab Donald if possible (I believe he's the best play maker in this draft) and go all out for offense with 2-7.
That's 6 guys. I'm sure you're aware of some outstanding WR prospects that expect to go round 2. Then for TE, why not grab Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Troy Niklas or C.J. Fiedorowicz. Then grab Marcus Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Moses or Richardson.
I'm thinking you get your BPA first then draft for need and offense is NEED.
I don't think he is the best playmaker in he draft. If he was we'd be touting him as a top 5 pick. He has been productive in college. However, at the next level I question if he can do what he did in college against NFL OL men.
If we ran our old system of the two way TE, 6'5 256-270 lb Te then fine. I want an athletic player in Ebron. Hell, I'd go Evans as our X too. The other TEs don't do anything for me. If we ran the older system then perhaps fine.
But none of the other TEs really excite me. That's the thing though why wait until round 2? If the 3 prospects are there why pass on them? We can address the perfect marriage of need and value with OL, TE or WR. We can always address DT later. It's not a huge need. Sure we can add to the DL. Fine, but this year should be about adding to any offensive personnel especially if value meets need perfectly.
I believe any of the 3 positions with those prospects would be ideal.
MAYOCK: As far as Aaron Donald, he's a guy I loved at Senior Bowl and love him on tape and he's explosive and he's quick. Now, the problem with the shorter defensive tackles is that when they don't win with their first move, they don't win with their quickness, they can get stuck on blocks because they don't have the length to get off the block. And that's the concern with Donald. Now, I think this kid's tough enough, quick enough and disruptive enough that he still deserves to be a first‑round defensive tackle, so I'm a believer in the kid, but there are some people that think he's a second‑round defensive tackle, because of the lack of length.
Mike Daniels 6'0" 291lbs. (GreenBay roster has him at 300) 3-4 Defense
Mike Martin 6'1" 298lbs (Tennesse roster has him at 306) Going to 3-4 Defense this year
Zach Minter 6'1" 297lbs Cincinnati 4-3 Defense
These guys were the closest I could find.
Donald's only true weakness is one that has been out of his control from the beginning. At 6'1", 285 pounds, he's vastly undersized for a prospect at his position. Scouts Inc. took measurements of all of the combine participants between 2008 and 2012 and found that the average defensive tackle was 6'2-7/8" and 304.8 pounds.
There's also talk that Donald shuts it down early on in plays once he feels he can no longer have an impact. SB Nation's Stephen White broke down five games of film on Donald and this is what he saw:
I can't overlook the fact that if it's not immediately apparent that he can make a play on the ball, Donald shuts down early....There are times when the play is still going on and Donald is literally walking. WALKING!!!
His short arms will hamper his ability to shed longer blockers, and he won't be able to manhandle double teams in the NFL like he did in the ACC. But Donald did blow away scouts with his performance at the combine:
Mitch Petrus did 45 reps at his combine. Didn't make him an all pro. And none of those guys are Donalds size. Height yes, size no.
I want to say I am not necessarily against picking him but I am skeptical about the history (or current lack of) for a player his size at DT.
And both their starting DT's are over 300lbs and one is 6'7" tall
Kuhn the only back-up
Jenkins 33 yrs old.
Kuhn the only back-up
Jenkins 33 yrs old.
But that writing doesn't necessarily say Round 1
The NFL has been hesitant to adjust its norms on a position-by-position basis. Nose tackles still are expected to weigh in at 330 pounds; corners with height in the 6-2 range are chased like water in the desert; quarterbacks, no matter the successes of Drew Brees or Russell Wilson, have a clear prototype that emphasizes height.
Donald has become one of the rare prospects capable of rocking the boat. His stunning speed You watch him move, when hes chasing down quarterbacks, he closes that gap real quick, Breckterfield said and quickness off the snap may turn him into a new-breed of tackle at the next level.
I think hes done a great job of proving to those that are in the know that hes a great football player, said Breckterfield, who during an interview with SI repeatedly emphasized Donalds work ethic. Thats all they have left to knock is his height.
Excellent Donald article if you care:
http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/07/aaron-donald-2014-nfl-draft/
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of some good DTs in this league in the "Donald" mold...Geno Atkins...Jurrell Casey, TEN...Brandon Mebane, SEA...Akeem Spence, TB, a rookie last year who played pretty well next to Gerald McCoy. These guys are closer or over 300 lbs, but they are right at 6'1'. We all saw how physically strong he is at the combine, he bench pressed 35 times.
Mitch Petrus did 45 reps at his combine. Didn't make him an all pro. And none of those guys are Donalds size. Height yes, size no.
I want to say I am not necessarily against picking him but I am skeptical about the history (or current lack of) for a player his size at DT.
Petrus is not nearly as good in the technique, footwork and quickness department as Donald is. Bad comparison.
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In comment 11594670 SamdaGiantsFan said:
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of some good DTs in this league in the "Donald" mold...Geno Atkins...Jurrell Casey, TEN...Brandon Mebane, SEA...Akeem Spence, TB, a rookie last year who played pretty well next to Gerald McCoy. These guys are closer or over 300 lbs, but they are right at 6'1'. We all saw how physically strong he is at the combine, he bench pressed 35 times.
Mitch Petrus did 45 reps at his combine. Didn't make him an all pro. And none of those guys are Donalds size. Height yes, size no.
I want to say I am not necessarily against picking him but I am skeptical about the history (or current lack of) for a player his size at DT.
Petrus is not nearly as good in the technique, footwork and quickness department as Donald is. Bad comparison.
Seeing as the comparison was about bench reps pretty sure its a good one. The point being Bench press does not mean strong during game play. Players have to have lower body strength as well to make that upper body strength worth while. Does Donald have it? I don't know......
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If he was so good we'd be calling him a top 5 pick. Moreover, if we don't get him the defense won't fall apart. Our offense stinks! We need to go balls out and upgrade it whenever we can.
We have a shot to get an OL, a possible X, or a very good TE. All of these guys are sorely needed. Reese and Coughlin haven't put their support behind RR which says a lot. Cruz is coming back from a knee and we got nothing afterwards. We have ZERO at TE and like I mentioned 3/5 OL spots aren't good.
That's pretty god awful. If we have a shot to go offense and even upgrade one of the spots, you do it. We have a franchise QB in his prime off a shitty season for many reasons. Another bad season could cost the staff their jobs. If that worst case happens, I don't see us re-signing Eli.
We owe it to add offensive personnel. If we have a shot at OL, possible X or TE then you have to go for it. There is no messing around. If we have a shit show year this team can see major changes.
Your best argument against Donald is that the defense will not fall apart without him. Agreed.
However, neither Ebron or Evans is without some pretty strong doubts.
My idea is to grab Donald if possible (I believe he's the best play maker in this draft) and go all out for offense with 2-7.
That's 6 guys. I'm sure you're aware of some outstanding WR prospects that expect to go round 2. Then for TE, why not grab Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Troy Niklas or C.J. Fiedorowicz. Then grab Marcus Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Moses or Richardson.
I'm thinking you get your BPA first then draft for need and offense is NEED.
I don't think he is the best playmaker in he draft. If he was we'd be touting him as a top 5 pick. He has been productive in college. However, at the next level I question if he can do what he did in college against NFL OL men.
If we ran our old system of the two way TE, 6'5 256-270 lb Te then fine. I want an athletic player in Ebron. Hell, I'd go Evans as our X too. The other TEs don't do anything for me. If we ran the older system then perhaps fine.
But none of the other TEs really excite me. That's the thing though why wait until round 2? If the 3 prospects are there why pass on them? We can address the perfect marriage of need and value with OL, TE or WR. We can always address DT later. It's not a huge need. Sure we can add to the DL. Fine, but this year should be about adding to any offensive personnel especially if value meets need perfectly.
I believe any of the 3 positions with those prospects would be ideal.
Anish I LOVE Ebron. This draft is so loaded with impact players. But heres the deal, Id still be upset if we picked him. Not an exact comparison but youll get my point: We'd be getting a Jeremy Shockey but passing on a guy who I think will be better than John Randle.
I want Dominance! I want our Defense to be "FEARED!" once again. But like many I am skeptical. Can you blame me?
Position: DT-NT
Height: 6-1 Weight: 255 lbs.
Born: December 3, 1948 in Cullen, LA (Age 65)
College: Grambling St.
Drafted by the New York Giants in the 3rd round (55th overall) of the 1972 NFL Draft.
Link - ( New Window )
Position: DT-NT
Height: 6-1 Weight: 255 lbs.
Born: December 3, 1948 in Cullen, LA (Age 65)
College: Grambling St.
Drafted by the New York Giants in the 3rd round (55th overall) of the 1972 NFL Draft.
Link - ( New Window )
That was 4 decades ago when there was what, 5 players the entire 70's that were 300 lbs? Do you know of any in the last 10 years? Because there are no under 6'1" under 290 lb DT's in the NFL right now according to the data on ESPN's list.
See I don't think both comparisons are true. We don't know what either player can be good or bad.
I think that's the debate going on in each draft room. Out of the scouts for each franchise it all depends on what majority believe Donald is the guy and what don't.
I just can't see us passing 3 positions of need meeting value for a DT. I'd be shocked if we went Donald. I know I'd be pissed, but shocked too. As in holy fuck we went DT kinda shocked.
From Daniel Jeremiah:
(AD is his #1 ranked DT, #14 overall)
From Bucky Brooks:
(AD ranked #13 on his Big Board, 02/26/14)
Here's Brooks comparing Geno Atkins to Aaron Donald
From Corey Chavous:
(AD ranked #4 on the DraftNasty Big Board)
From Russ Lande:
(12/14/13, before his Bowl Game, Senior Bowl, and Combine)
Donald lines up as a three-technique in Pitt's 4-3 scheme. While he lacks ideal height, he has long arms, is very strong, and is a very good athlete. His initial quickness is exceptional. He, often, is past his opponent before they can get a hand on him. He has very good instincts and reactions and is consistently around the ball. In the run game, he is very disruptive because of his ability to shed blocks and penetrate. This year, he had 26.5 tackles for loss. He is highly competitive with a non-stop motor and is a relentless pursuit player.
Aaron is also a top inside pass rusher. He has quick hands and very good inside hand use. He has the skill set to set up blockers with both his hands and feet. He shows a variety of moves and uses counter moves effectively. Going into their Bowl game, Donald has 10 sacks this year and close to 30 for his career. Donalds size, athleticism and skill set say he is best suited to play as a three-technique for a one-gap 4-3 defense in the NFL. A team that plays that scheme could very well draft him high.
Oh, and unless Mike Mayock's changed it in the last two minutes, Aaron Donald is still his #1 ranked DT, reservations and all.
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Anish I LOVE Ebron. This draft is so loaded with impact players. But heres the deal, Id still be upset if we picked him. Not an exact comparison but youll get my point: We'd be getting a Jeremy Shockey but passing on a guy who I think will be better than John Randle.
See I don't think both comparisons are true. We don't know what either player can be good or bad.
I think that's the debate going on in each draft room. Out of the scouts for each franchise it all depends on what majority believe Donald is the guy and what don't.
I just can't see us passing 3 positions of need meeting value for a DT. I'd be shocked if we went Donald. I know I'd be pissed, but shocked too. As in holy fuck we went DT kinda shocked.
Anish what position have we went for time after time in the top 3 rounds? A passrusher. We value pass rushers more than any other position besides Qb. It borders on obssession. Sintim was a high second at LB mainly because of his perceived passrush ability.Now this year is a bit unique with the state of the offense and coaching changeover but alot has been done in FA to bolster the O. If the Giants think he is a legit passrushing threat from the DT position, it would be suprising if he was NOT the pick.
We can STILL get a high quality OL at 43 then Wr TE in rounds 3-4.
He supported that hypothesis by listing the sizes of DTs drafted by the Giants in recent years.
Aaron Donald is pretty clearly an outlier compared with those other DTs. Maybe you could argue the sample size is too small to draw conclusions, but I disagree. There does appear to be a pretty clear trend.
What followed above is a long thread with a lot of people criticizing the argument based on what they think the Giants should do and why they think Aaron Donald's size shouldn't matter. But nothing has changed at the Giants. It's the same front office, the same defensive alignment, the same defensive coordinator -- the only thing that would make us think the Giants would deviate from this trend is "Aaron Donald is just so damn good." I have no way of telling if he's really that good or how good he'll be in the NFL, or whether the Giants see him that way. But they will be going against their established pattern if they take him.
By the way, the Giants have a number of established patterns but they have shown they will deviate from them at times. They don't draft centers very often (still a trend). They don't like to take RBs in the 1st (but took Wilson).
Anyway, thank you, Gidiefor for doing some fact-based analysis.
P.S. - Pugh's arms became a topic after the draft, in part because he wasn't on most fans' radar as a top pick for the NYG.
Bob Sanders
Sam Mills
Joe Morris
Daryl Green
Steve Smith
As one coach used to say, "It's not the size of the dog in the fight. It's the size of the fight in the dog."
I can't let 2" of height sway my opinion of a good (maybe great) football player.
I think we would all like a John Randle on this current roster. Would be great if Donald was that guy(including nasty heckling and all would be nice)
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Anish I LOVE Ebron. This draft is so loaded with impact players. But heres the deal, Id still be upset if we picked him. Not an exact comparison but youll get my point: We'd be getting a Jeremy Shockey but passing on a guy who I think will be better than John Randle.
See I don't think both comparisons are true. We don't know what either player can be good or bad.
I think that's the debate going on in each draft room. Out of the scouts for each franchise it all depends on what majority believe Donald is the guy and what don't.
I just can't see us passing 3 positions of need meeting value for a DT. I'd be shocked if we went Donald. I know I'd be pissed, but shocked too. As in holy fuck we went DT kinda shocked.
We don't know but we can project . And Im guessing the Giants may feel similarly. I bet they feel Ebron is going to be good but Donald could be a once in a decade talent at DT.
It's not a matter of explaining how it would be better for him but how historically (except for one name, John Randle) no other DT has been successful(1st round talent successful) in the NFL at under 6'1" and below 290 lbs.
It's the size of the fight in the dog.
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how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...
It's not a matter of explaining how it would be better for him but how historically (except for one name, John Randle) no other DT has been successful(1st round talent successful) in the NFL at under 6'1" and below 290 lbs.
ok so basically you cant explain it.. check..
anyone else want to try..
how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...
ok so basically you cant explain it.. check..
anyone else want to try..
Yes. Let me clue you in. By adding 15-20 pounds he would immediately move from the 10-20 draft position to right there with Clowney. See how smart I am? What do I win?
Been watching some videos of different draft picks and this kid stood out the most or all of them.
Davante Adams jumped out at me too.....see him on par with the top guys...maybe a hair below watkins but has a pro game...reminds me of Cruz a little actually with how he goes after the ball
CBS quote: Deceptive straight-line speed to challenge deep and shows good balance and overall body control to gain separation on comeback and out routes.
Maybe one day they will hit, that would be fun also, then if that didn't work out, it will be Coughlin being too old to adjust to this magnificent player, he is too stubborn. LOL! I love it!
Maybe one day they will hit, that would be fun also, then if that didn't work out, it will be Coughlin being too old to adjust to this magnificent player, he is too stubborn. LOL! I love it!
Yeah that was Fleener and if you remember,
We were at the back end of the draft and our team had less perceived needs than it does now but TE was a pretty big need. Fleener was a very good looking TE (not as good as Ebron) but thats why he had a shot at him. In any event he had 52 catches last year and looks to be steadily improving/acclimating to the NFL. Id hardly call that a bust. Some guys dont light it up right away which is why you look for flashes and/or steady improvement.
Seriously JJ. I wonder if even you believe what you write sometimes.
Maybe one day they will hit, that would be fun also, then if that didn't work out, it will be Coughlin being too old to adjust to this magnificent player, he is too stubborn. LOL! I love it!
Donald is a gamechanger from the DT position. He is going to make 11 teams deeply regret not taking him.
I loved Alshon a few years back and hated Randle. But even though Alshon had 1400 yds and Randle didnt look great last year in our complex/broken offense Im not calling him a bust yet. Lets see what he does next year in likely a very new more straightforward offense .
Ive also touted the first round OL around here quite a bit (wanted Joe Staleyover Ross and wanted Solder) and pretty much hate any first round DT that was llikely to make our pick in round 1.
Donald is a bigtime exception. He is a bonafide passrusher from the DT position with DE versatility. Tuck was our hybrid De-DT for years at 268 lbs and pretty good at it. IMO This guy will be at least better than the Tuck of the last few years.
Seriously JJ. I wonder if even you believe what you write sometimes.
Love the Donald, Thats the potential I see with this kid. How many DTs can you name that had better college numbers than this guy? Sometimes production is so good you have to ignore the measurables. His only bad measurable is his height and his weight is very good for his height and his insane speed/strength make up for it.
Assuming a prospect will start and be productive in year one is wishful thinking. You've skipped that step altogether and already have Donald enshrined.
Assuming a prospect will start and be productive in year one is wishful thinking. You've skipped that step altogether and already have Donald enshrined.
You are right. He may not dominate year one especially at DT where the learning curve is higher. But I do think he is pretty polished and will play decently with some flashes at minimum.
Donald has strength and quickness that few possess. I just don't know if he has say "John Randle's" motor / motivation to win. Randle is similarly sized and had an All-Pro career because he played every down like it was his last. He was a nasty player with a mouth, motor and drive few can match.
If Donald wants to overcome the "little guy" syndrome he must develop that motor too. Will he? That is the only question mark I have on him. His size, speed, weight, arm length be damned cause his play is pretty dosh darn good.
However, having said all that I still am praying Bridgewater is there at #12 and a team comes calling offering us a DE and their #1 for Bridgewater. A 3rd year DE with some upside could be the last piece to making this defense superb. With a later pick I'd take Z. Martin for the interior OL cause he'll be a rock and likely start if Snee does not hold up.
Does he have the tenacity and have the sheer determination and desire of Randle? I guess we'll see but he certainly showed ot in the Senior Bowl practices and game vs some future NFL lineman.
It's the size of the fight in the dog.
Well said.
There is a current trend to use a lot of 3 step against the Giants because of our reputation to pressure from the DE position. You want to stop 3 step, the best way is to either:
A. push the middle of the OL back to keep the QB from stepping up into the throw, and it also has the added benefit of cluttering up the curl zone so the Qb has to put more air under the ball.
B. penetration from the DTs, rather than push. Make that QB move.
Couple either of those two with a squat cover 2 or man coverage and you've got a great chance of dissuading a team from going with a steady diet of 3 step.
His size is less important if you can determine that he plays with leverage and gets the big muscles involved when he's engaged. Sometimes, he does. Sometimes, he doesn't.
From what little I've seen of him, I'd guess he can be coached up to be a real force, both inside and occasionally from the outside.
Great first steps like his are had to find.
I do however think Tuitt makes more sense, because even when blocked, that is 6-6 to throw over and around. We need either the size to disrupt the view/throwing lanes or the speed to penetrate and force the issue with the QB. Speed usually wins, but if you can keep it at bay it's neutralized. You can't neutralize 6-6.
I think that's what has killed Eli the past year and a half to two years, a paper interior of the OL. His "mobility" has always been the ability to step up into the pocket to avoid pressure. That has been virtually non-existent, forcing him to make hurried and forced throws.. Eli shit the bed on his own, but the turnstile up the middle has been a killer imv
You can't coach 6'6".
I haven't seen Tuitt much either, but he's got the measureables if...and it's a big if, he uses them.
A big wingspan inside can work wonders for a stonewalled DT on a 3 step game.
I would think we'll take a big body in the first and maybe the second as well. OL or DL, it doesn't matter. I don't have a preference, but we do have a need for at least one of each.
Did something just get passed by the NFL this off-season?
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In comment 11594860 Blue Blood said:
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how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...
It's not a matter of explaining how it would be better for him but how historically (except for one name, John Randle) no other DT has been successful(1st round talent successful) in the NFL at under 6'1" and below 290 lbs.
ok so basically you cant explain it.. check..
anyone else want to try..
wow, so the historical data that shows(in this case by lack of players his size) DT's at 6'1" 280ish lbs don't succeed isn't good enough? Only one NFL example of a DT his size in the last 14 years can be found. That doesn't make you stop and wonder why?
A coach can do a lot of things to mask weaknesses, but you can't hide a weak middle for long. A weak middle is devastating on both sides of the ball.
DBs not in Seattle are pretty much not allowed to breathe a WR now for fear of being flagged, it's just neutering defenses and the teams that have it figured out and adjust are going to win.
But I do agree that pressure up the middle on a QB is always a valuable commodity. If Donald can create that lateral movement quickly (from a QB) then it only makes JPP, Kiwi and Moore that much more valuable, which is sorely needed.
As you know the NFL adapts quickly, so teams will eventually shut a "Donald-type" down and then it is clearly up to a JPP to dominate.
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In comment 11594886 Boatie Warrant said:
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In comment 11594860 Blue Blood said:
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how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...
It's not a matter of explaining how it would be better for him but how historically (except for one name, John Randle) no other DT has been successful(1st round talent successful) in the NFL at under 6'1" and below 290 lbs.
ok so basically you cant explain it.. check..
anyone else want to try..
wow, so the historical data that shows(in this case by lack of players his size) DT's at 6'1" 280ish lbs don't succeed isn't good enough? Only one NFL example of a DT his size in the last 14 years can be found. That doesn't make you stop and wonder why?
The height issue I can comprehend.. Im not stupid..
The fact is what I cannot comprehend is the weight issue.. he is 285... which means he is 15lbs from being 300lbs..
I would like someone who keep pointing out this fact to explain to me how 15 lbs spread over he entire frame would make him a better player.. dont tell me what teams havent done over 14 years..
because I can sit here and name players that were too small.. too big.. not fast enough.. etc etc that went on to be GREAT Nfl players.. not good.. GREAT..
Again the height issue I can clearly understand.. but explain the whole.. oh he doesnt weight 300 lbs.. he only weighs 285... how does 15 lbs make him BETTER....
On the one hand it would be a terrific plus to have a quick fast penetrating DT to go sideline to sideline with rbs and mobile qbs
But what happens if/when Donald sprains an ankle or suffers some other leg malady that takes away his quick/fastness?
Now you are left with an undersized DT who can neither penetrate/chase sideline to sideline nor hold the point of attack
I think JR takes a big body run stuffer DT in the. Fifth or. Sixth round eg Justin Ellis, shamar Stephen, Ryan carrethers or Deandre Coleman
Jints should strongly consider trading down to 14 with Da Bears who crave Donald and obtain a fourth round draft choice while still taking Zach Martin with their first rounder to further bolster their OL which needs more bolster
They could then select Bryan Stork C with Da Bears fourth rounder and a DE with their own fourth rounder and Voila the OL and DL have been restocked while leaving their second and third round choices available to draft a TE and WR in the best rounds for selection of those positions IMO
Donald is more stout and powerful as 285 is quite solid for his height.
And an offensive line that could keep Eli from getting sacked. We suck now. We don't have Rbs , a TE or an X, which we had in 2 SBs.
This year I am crazy as those BBIers in other years. I really want to draft Donald.
PaulN: If the Giants get the chance and do not pick Donald, I really won't get pissed off. I'll just follow his career and see if I was right or not. I trust the Giants decisions over mine.
What would piss me off is another team trading up and snatching Donald before our pick.
Dots are right in the middle of the maelstrom
They get blocked from every angle
Often double teamed and
Something they have no control over are the big bodies landing on them in the big pile ups in the middle of the Los
TC has always expressed a preference for big bodies to dominate the LOS
I expect that is the way JR goes in this draft particularly in light of the fact that they can be had in the later rounds leaving the early rounds to adress much bigger needs
Exactly! Mike Patterson's the same size as Donald, and JR didn't have a problem picking him up in FA. Now that you've made this quality assessment based on the height metric, how about looking at another metric... combine 40 times. Any lineman run in the 4.68 range? No... not close. Any Giant lineman lead the nation in tackles for a loss and sacks per down played? No... not close. Donald is a phenomenal talent and athletic freak who with Jenkins, JPP and D'Moore on passing downs, with that revitalized secondary, could double last season's sack totals. Discussions of Donald's height as a disqualifier when the Giants had Mike Patterson last season don't make much sense.
But but but...Patterson was a full 6'1" and Donald is just shy of 6'1". AND Patterson weighed a full 15 lbs more.
Warren Sapp Was A Possible No. 2 Pick. His Stock Fell Because of Failed Drug Test - ( New Window )
There are several 6'1" DT but none are 280 something pounds. There are several 280 lb DT but they are all 6'2" and above.
I'm not saying Donald wasn't really good in college. I'm not saying the Giants should not pick him. I'm saying it is cause for pause when only one other player in the past 14 years(that I can find) has the same height/weight ratio at the DT position.
John Randle is the only example that has been brought up. Sapp was 6'2"
As for what does 15-20 pounds do for a guy at DT? Well it does something because 6'2" 300 lbs or more is what most great DT's measure at in todays NFL. I would say it makes it harder for the guy to be pushed around at the very least.
This year I am crazy as those BBIers in other years. I really want to draft Donald.
PaulN: If the Giants get the chance and do not pick Donald, I really won't get pissed off. I'll just follow his career and see if I was right or not. I trust the Giants decisions over mine.
What would piss me off is another team trading up and snatching Donald before our pick.
The funniest part about this if you just looked at his numbers in college out of a major program most everyone would be thinking he should be a top pick in the entire draft on that ALONE. How many DTs do you know in the HISTORY of division 1 college football have overall production like this kid had in his last 3 years at Pitt?
Suhs overall numbers? Not as good.
Sapps overall numbers? Not as good.
Geno Atkins numbers? Not as good.
Gerald McCoys numbers? Not as good.
So then you say nah his size will still be an issue. Lets see what else he can prove. So he goes out dominates in every single practice in the Senior Bowl dominates the Senior Bowl game itself and THEN follows .it up with a freakish combine!
Remember when Suggs on tape looked like an absolute monster? Why did he drop a bit? For him it was an pretty bad 40 time. Sometimes the tape is so darn good you have to ignore 1 or 2 measurables that may not be perfect. Bottomline, this game is played on the football field. Not on a scale. Has the kid dominated in live action, against all kinds of competition with great consistency? The answer is a resounding YES.
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and I remember SHM at BBIers who wanted so & so very bad. I knew they wouldn't be drafted by the Giants.
This year I am crazy as those BBIers in other years. I really want to draft Donald.
PaulN: If the Giants get the chance and do not pick Donald, I really won't get pissed off. I'll just follow his career and see if I was right or not. I trust the Giants decisions over mine.
What would piss me off is another team trading up and snatching Donald before our pick.
The funniest part about this if you just looked at his numbers in college out of a major program most everyone would be thinking he should be a top pick in the entire draft on that ALONE. How many DTs do you know in the HISTORY of division 1 college football have overall production like this kid had in his last 3 years at Pitt?
Suhs overall numbers? Not as good.
Sapps overall numbers? Not as good.
Geno Atkins numbers? Not as good.
Gerald McCoys numbers? Not as good.
So then you say nah his size will still be an issue. Lets see what else he can prove. So he goes out dominates in every single practice in the Senior Bowl dominates the Senior Bowl game itself and THEN follows .it up with a freakish combine!
Remember when Suggs on tape looked like an absolute monster? Why did he drop a bit? For him it was an pretty bad 40 time. Sometimes the tape is so darn good you have to ignore 1 or 2 measurables that may not be perfect. Bottomline, this game is played on the football field. Not on a scale. Has the kid dominated in live action, against all kinds of competition with great consistency? The answer is a resounding YES.
So players who Dominate in college never become busts?
I keep saying the same thing, His height/weight ratio for his position at least requires extra attention(review of what he has done, against who and was it sustainable throughout the game) when deciding to pick him or not. Will he hold up? I don't know
All that said, it does not change that extra looks need to be done by our scouts because he does not fit the normal mold (historically, in the current NFL) of a DT. Best way to do that is to nit pick the hell out of his technique and endurance. In the end if what they find still tells them he is what he seems to be then they will have no choice but to pick him at #12.
I can only hope that whoever they pick at #12 becomes a beast for us because we really need one. We need players with Nasty on the field.
Marty, I have really liked several defensive players before the draft in the past. All of who looked NFL ready and crushed it in college. Some did crap in the NFL some did very well, most did ok. With Donald for me it is a once bitten twice shy type deal. Watching him tackle reminds me of LT because of how he pursues and pops when he hits. (I can only dream)
So for me, I don't want to get super excited for a player we don't have yet(especially if he goes to Dallas(see DeMarcus Ware)). I also don't want to get super excited for a kid who has not taken one NFL snap.
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Has more tackles for losses and sacks then the next three OR more of the top prospects in this draft ALL combined. He has played against top competition and has excelled. He will be a force in the NFL. No one has his speed and quickness inside.
Marty, I have really liked several defensive players before the draft in the past. All of who looked NFL ready and crushed it in college. Some did crap in the NFL some did very well, most did ok. With Donald for me it is a once bitten twice shy type deal. Watching him tackle reminds me of LT because of how he pursues and pops when he hits. (I can only dream)
So for me, I don't want to get super excited for a player we don't have yet(especially if he goes to Dallas(see DeMarcus Ware)). I also don't want to get super excited for a kid who has not taken one NFL snap.
Your tune is changing markedly lol
We are giving back the Lombardys from XXI and XV.
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In comment 11595888 Marty866b said:
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Has more tackles for losses and sacks then the next three OR more of the top prospects in this draft ALL combined. He has played against top competition and has excelled. He will be a force in the NFL. No one has his speed and quickness inside.
Marty, I have really liked several defensive players before the draft in the past. All of who looked NFL ready and crushed it in college. Some did crap in the NFL some did very well, most did ok. With Donald for me it is a once bitten twice shy type deal. Watching him tackle reminds me of LT because of how he pursues and pops when he hits. (I can only dream)
So for me, I don't want to get super excited for a player we don't have yet(especially if he goes to Dallas(see DeMarcus Ware)). I also don't want to get super excited for a kid who has not taken one NFL snap.
Your tune is changing markedly lol
My tune has been the same from the beginning. I have never said I didn't like Donald. All my comments and questions were directly about DT's his size(height and weight). I just never addressed How I felt about his play until the last two posts.
We are giving back the Lombardys from XXI and XV.
Ah yes, there is the typical nonsense.
If you think he's going to get pushed around, take the time to review his snaps. Find something wrong, post it here.
I don't expect he'll destroy the NFL as he did with the college teams right away but he'd be a fantastic player; a game changer.
I worry about injuries with this guy.
I worry about injuries with this guy.
How injury prone was he in college? Not that that gaurantees anything but it is an indicator.
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