for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

I don't think Aaron Donald is the right size to be a Giant

gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:12 pm
I was just looking at the Leonard Marshall play that Eric just posted - and thinking that when the Giants drafted JPP - he was more the body type of a Giant than what I remembered in Donald - and I went back and looked.

Donald is only 6' tall and 285 - Linval Joseph 6' 4" and 325 - Hankins is 6'2 320 - JPP is 6'5" and 285

In my opinion - Donald just doesn't fit the Giants profile - so as much as he has talent - I just don't think you are going to see this guy in a Giants uniform - even if he's available to pick at 12 - you are going to see a Giant athlete drafted - someone over 6' Tall

Evans and Ebron both fall more into that category so does Jake Mathews

Taylor Lewan - 6'8" 315 lbs - now that's a Giant - In my opinion it's got be one of those 4 if the Giants stay at 12.
What about Marvin Austin, Cullen Jenkins and Mike Patterson  
chris r : 3/29/2014 4:15 pm : link
?
I don't care about size  
illmatic : 3/29/2014 4:16 pm : link
Just give me performance.

Wait. That sounds wrong.
Ebron, while 6'4" is really one of the smaller TEs  
Bill in UT : 3/29/2014 4:17 pm : link
at 245 pounds. Most of the other top guys are bigger
Yes  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 4:19 pm : link
His height at 6 foot and 3/8ths has hampered his college career and basically made him an undesirable draft pick at 12. He'll likely flop in the NFL. If he was only 1 inch and 5/8 taller, he'd be draftable by the Giants who recently (and unfortunately) picked the 6'2" Austin.
...  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:19 pm : link
Cullen Jenkins 6' 2" 305
Mike Patterson is not a starter - but even he is 6' 1"
Marvin AUstn 6' 2" 312
Pugh's arms  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 4:20 pm : link
are too short to draft him in round one.
I'm just saying  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:21 pm : link
The Giants are going for bigger and stronger at the loin tot attack - that's what Coughlin said the other day - and I think if you look at their first round trench picks - it bears out - they have wingspan and height
I think what we've learned  
nyynyg : 3/29/2014 4:21 pm : link
And have said is the Giants need to start drafting football players. Screw the measurables, I just want a guy who can outright play. And that describes Donald.
Justin Pugh  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:22 pm : link
6' 5"
He'll put on some weight once he gets to the NFL.  
732NYG : 3/29/2014 4:23 pm : link
And let's not confuse his lack of size with a lack of strength. He repped 225 lbs 35 times, good enough for 2nd among all DTs. If you watch tape on him, you'll notice his low center of gravity works very much in his favor, allowing him to get underneath blocks and split double teams much more easily than some taller/larger DTs. Not to mention, he is so lightning quick off the snap, most of the time, the opposing OL hasn't even gotten out of his stance before Donald is in the backfield. Don't get it twisted, Donald is a beast.
That's the thinking  
cokeduplt : 3/29/2014 4:24 pm : link
That had the giants pick Nick Greisen instead of Zack Thomas. I think it was Greisen or someone else who amounted to nothing. Size doesn't mean everything.
RE: I think what we've learned  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:24 pm : link
In comment 11594445 nyynyg said:
Quote:
And have said is the Giants need to start drafting football players. Screw the measurables, I just want a guy who can outright play. And that describes Donald.


I think we all agree that we want a guy who can outright play - any of the 4 players I mentioned can play - and they fit the profile

The Giants want - well Giants
RE: That's the thinking  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:25 pm : link
In comment 11594451 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
That had the giants pick Nick Greisen instead of Zack Thomas. I think it was Greisen or someone else who amounted to nothing. Size doesn't mean everything.


Size doesn't mean everything - but Giants = Giants
Reeves really wanted Zach Thomas  
gmenrule1986 : 3/29/2014 4:31 pm : link
But was overruled by management.
Anyone remember how tall Jim Burt was?  
wgenesis123 : 3/29/2014 4:32 pm : link
.
he would a 3 technique  
George from PA : 3/29/2014 4:33 pm : link
Linval and big hank are 1s. He would replace Jenkins.
Gidie I started a thread on this about a week ago  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 4:36 pm : link
But as some here alluded to we have also taken guys recently that dont fit the perfect 'Giant' body type. Secondly 285 is a very solid weight for a guy his size.Thirdly his amazing college production cannot be simply ignored. He is super strong with a low center of gravity. Lastly he can play Tucks (who played at 268) hybrid DT/DE role probably even better than the Tuck of the last few years did.
Justin Tuck  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:38 pm : link
6'5"
Donald  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 4:39 pm : link
Has problems holding the point of attack in the running game, that is because of his size, and this against college guards, in the NFL it could be a real problem. We learned in the past that players playing defensive tackle, in our defense must hold the point of attack. This is where he is weak, now if he is off the charts talented enough to give us a tackle who can penetrate up the middle, then he is giving us something else that we could really need.

If he were taller and had a bigger frame, he could add weight without losing his quickness, but he is about maxed out already, so this is the issue with Donald. The one thing that may actually work in his favor is he is so short, that would it be possible, with the right coaching, to teach him how to use his leverage to hold the point of attack. Because we already know he has great strength, if the Giants feel that he could be coached to do this, and he already has what they need physically to do this, and they also feel that his quickness could also work against NFL guards and he could penetrate the defensive line on this level, then this will be our pick. This would be a skill that this team could really use.

I fully acknowledge that I just am not qualified to know the answers to the questions. Maybe some of you feel a lot more certain, I know some want to talk like they know, but I am not here to have a pissing contest to who is right, I am a fan that just loves the Giants and know enough to understand how important a 12th pick in the draft is.

I know this, I want to believe he can do it at this level and then I would really want him to be the pick. I am afraid he won't and then if he is a bust, this is a huge setback, to blow a 12th pick would be devastating.
I cannot belive  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 4:40 pm : link
how good this prospect is. Last year he clearly did better than the highly touted, Clowney.

I've never been this sold on a Giants hopeful draft pick.
I really want Donald as a NY Giant.
Our defense will immediately become one of the NFL's best.
mr vax  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:42 pm : link
I'm not saying Donald isn't going to be a great player - we are talking profile here
RE: RE: That's the thinking  
cokeduplt : 3/29/2014 4:43 pm : link
In comment 11594454 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 11594451 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


That had the giants pick Nick Greisen instead of Zack Thomas. I think it was Greisen or someone else who amounted to nothing. Size doesn't mean everything.





Size doesn't mean everything - but Giants = Giants
a




What does that even mean?
by the way  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:43 pm : link
Javedon Clowney at 6' 6" - he fits the profile
Donald has been extremely productive at college  
Ira : 3/29/2014 4:44 pm : link
His tackles for loss last season (28.5) and sacks (11) were more than either Nix, Jernigan or Hageman had during their college careers. He also bench pressed more than any of them in the combine and was much better in all of the athletic measurements. I'd rather have a good player than a taller player.
Donald  
SamdaGiantsFan : 3/29/2014 4:45 pm : link
had 28.5 TFL last year.28.5! That led the nationwe all know by this point that Donald does NOT fit the mold of the typical Giant defensive lineman. But that production and his amazing burst will catapult him to a fantastic NFL career. The bottom line is regardless of position, IMHO Donald is a better football player than Lewan and Ebron at this point, and they would be passing on a potential perennial player, a ceiling of Geno Atkins perhaps, who sits at just 6'1'
RE: RE: RE: That's the thinking  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:47 pm : link
In comment 11594477 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 11594454 gidiefor said:


Quote:


In comment 11594451 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


That had the giants pick Nick Greisen instead of Zack Thomas. I think it was Greisen or someone else who amounted to nothing. Size doesn't mean everything.





Size doesn't mean everything - but Giants = Giants

a




What does that even mean?



Cokey - this is what Tom Coughlin says it means:

Quote:
big human beings in the NFC East
The player  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 4:48 pm : link
I would look at to see if he could be what he once was is Warren Saap, but even he was 6'2" and 300 lbs. But he would come in to try and give your team what Saap once gave to the Bucs.
RE: Donald  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 4:48 pm : link
In comment 11594473 PaulN said:
Quote:
Has problems holding the point of attack in the running game, that is because of his size, and this against college guards, in the NFL it could be a real problem. We learned in the past that players playing defensive tackle, in our defense must hold the point of attack. This is where he is weak, now if he is off the charts talented enough to give us a tackle who can penetrate up the middle, then he is giving us something else that we could really need.

If he were taller and had a bigger frame, he could add weight without losing his quickness, but he is about maxed out already, so this is the issue with Donald. The one thing that may actually work in his favor is he is so short, that would it be possible, with the right coaching, to teach him how to use his leverage to hold the point of attack. Because we already know he has great strength, if the Giants feel that he could be coached to do this, and he already has what they need physically to do this, and they also feel that his quickness could also work against NFL guards and he could penetrate the defensive line on this level, then this will be our pick. This would be a skill that this team could really use.

I fully acknowledge that I just am not qualified to know the answers to the questions. Maybe some of you feel a lot more certain, I know some want to talk like they know, but I am not here to have a pissing contest to who is right, I am a fan that just loves the Giants and know enough to understand how important a 12th pick in the draft is.

I know this, I want to believe he can do it at this level and then I would really want him to be the pick. I am afraid he won't and then if he is a bust, this is a huge setback, to blow a 12th pick would be devastating.


Donald is the Charles Barkley of DTs. HIs strength determination and quickness will more than make up for lack of height.
RE: Donald  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:49 pm : link
In comment 11594481 SamdaGiantsFan said:
Quote:
had 28.5 TFL last year.28.5! That led the nationwe all know by this point that Donald does NOT fit the mold of the typical Giant defensive lineman. But that production and his amazing burst will catapult him to a fantastic NFL career. The bottom line is regardless of position, IMHO Donald is a better football player than Lewan and Ebron at this point, and they would be passing on a potential perennial player, a ceiling of Geno Atkins perhaps, who sits at just 6'1'


Sammy,

You say it yourself
Quote:
Donald does NOT fit the mold of the typical Giant defensive lineman
That's really the bottom line here - there no argument that he's a player
RE: RE: RE: RE: That's the thinking  
cokeduplt : 3/29/2014 4:51 pm : link
In comment 11594482 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 11594477 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


In comment 11594454 gidiefor said:

I just think they will regret passing on him. His size is his only negative, his stats ans every other measure able are off the charts.
Quote:


In comment 11594451 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


That had the giants pick Nick Greisen instead of Zack Thomas. I think it was Greisen or someone else who amounted to nothing. Size doesn't mean everything.





Size doesn't mean everything - but Giants = Giants

a




What does that even mean?




Cokey - this is what Tom Coughlin says it means:



Quote:


big human beings in the NFC East

Gmen Dynasty  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:51 pm : link
I know if you say it you believe it - but Charles Barkley = 6' 6"
RE: Donald  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 4:51 pm : link
In comment 11594481 SamdaGiantsFan said:
Quote:
had 28.5 TFL last year.28.5! That led the nationwe all know by this point that Donald does NOT fit the mold of the typical Giant defensive lineman. But that production and his amazing burst will catapult him to a fantastic NFL career. The bottom line is regardless of position, IMHO Donald is a better football player than Lewan and Ebron at this point, and they would be passing on a potential perennial player, a ceiling of Geno Atkins perhaps, who sits at just 6'1'


How many DTs have you ever seen rack up the numbers hes got over rhe last 3 years. Suhs numbers arent even that close. His ceiling is HIGHER than Geno Atkins.
Is what I was trying to post  
cokeduplt : 3/29/2014 4:52 pm : link
I just think they will regret passing on him. His size is his only negative, his stats ans every other measure able are off the charts.

So what's your point gidie?  
Giantology : 3/29/2014 4:56 pm : link
The Giants won't draft him because he isn't a specific height/weight?
Giantology  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 4:57 pm : link
Yes - that's my point - his body profile - doesn't fit the Giants profile
RE: Giantology  
Klaatu : 3/29/2014 4:59 pm : link
In comment 11594503 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Yes - that's my point - his body profile - doesn't fit the Giants profile


Maybe it's time they thought outside the profile.

Oh, and stop comparing Donald to DEs and one-tech DTs.
Giants  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:00 pm : link
Are not going to pass on him just because of his size, trust me on that. They will pass on him if there is someone they believe is a better player and will help them more then him is sitting there, or is they do not believe this guy will be a good player here. That is all. If they believe in this player, and he is at the top of their board at the time they pick, they are not going to say, well too bad he is only 6 feet tall, he doesn't fit our mold! LOL! That is a fucking joke to even think that way.

But they may feel he would get dominated by huge offensive guards and center's on this level. That would be why they wouldn't want him, if they didn't.
I feel  
Giantology : 3/29/2014 5:00 pm : link
if the Giants are only drafting players who fit a specific body type then they we are in trouble. Id hope they wouldn't ignore all the other aspects a player like Donald brings to the table
Klaatie-pie  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 5:01 pm : link
listen - we are not talking about the way I think - or Donald's potential here - I am merely raising the spoken words and actions of the Giants FO over time
Warren Saap  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:05 pm : link
Think of him in respect to Donald. Could he come in and do what Saap did, does he have the tools to succeed like Saap did, Saap used leverage and quickness to dominate in the NFL, and despite the fact that we don't like him, he was a beast his first 5-7 years in the NFL, a beast, and as good as any tackle I ever saw, he was that good. He did slow up in his latter years because once he lost that quickness, then his size did play against hi,.

But if you love this guy, this is the player to throw out there, if he can come in and give us 75% of what Saap was, then he would make a great pick.
gidiepoo.  
Klaatu : 3/29/2014 5:05 pm : link
Except that you're not taking into account the last two 3-techs they drafted, who were only one or two inches taller than Donald, and about 15 pounds heavier...though not nearly the disruptive force that Donald has been throughout is career.
Justin Pugh may be 6'5", but he ....  
Crispino : 3/29/2014 5:06 pm : link
has arms roughly suited to a woman of 5'4".
I think Donald is who Dallas wants  
GiantMike92 : 3/29/2014 5:07 pm : link
Probably a stretch he makes it to #16 but he definitely seems to be their guy.
OK  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 5:11 pm : link
So what other under 300lb under 6'1" DT has ever done well in the NFL?
Pugh  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:12 pm : link
Has great feet, he does not need long arms because his feet are so good. If you watched the tape on him, you would have been alright with the pick, Mayock was, and said it right away.

Does anyone know how Mayock feels about Donald fitting for the Giants? The other player that may also fit for us is Ebron. In our new offense, Ebron may be exactly what we need and would want. I worry about his drop rate, and with Eli as his QB, that could really be a problem, but he is the only TE in this draft that could give us what we need I our new offense. The old offense and he wouldn't fit.
I don't think the Giants would pass Donald up  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 5:14 pm : link
based on his size. They selected Pugh even though he has shorter than desirable arm length. He's worked out just fine.

The Giants may look at Geno Atkins.
Here's his NFL post combine profile which is similar to Donald:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/geno-atkins?id=496762

Just remember Donald was BETTER than Geno in college. His measurables are a bit better also.

You are going to find real good players now and then that are not prototypical. I don't see any risk in taking him as a 3 tech DT.
PaulN  
Klaatu : 3/29/2014 5:16 pm : link
How do you know what our new offense will be, and how do you know that Ebron is the only TE in this draft who would do well in it?
So  
CapeGman : 3/29/2014 5:17 pm : link
your in the size matters camp.
I could care less if the guy can ball.
mrvax  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:18 pm : link
Its a huge risk if he can not hold the point of attack, and this is where his issues are. So let's not pretend we know, nobody knows. We have already heard many call him a boom or bust type prospect, people that are so called experts. So there are many of us nervous about Donald. BUT, I want to believe he will give us exactly what we hope. But I am not certain at all, nor are many of the experts.
Cape  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2014 5:20 pm : link
no that's not my camp - but I'm saying that size matters to the Giants
Boatie  
Klaatu : 3/29/2014 5:20 pm : link
Kyle Williams (Bills) is 6'1", 303 lbs. He's a two-time All-Pro and three-time Pro Bowler. Not bad for a 5th round pick who was also considered too short for the NFL.
The reason I ask  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 5:23 pm : link
about any other DT, the same size as Donald, that did well is because it would be nice to know that at least one other existed in recent years.
Based  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:23 pm : link
On the things I have heard from people who have a very good idea. In this offense we are going to need a much quicker type player in that spot, it was also speculated that we could actually use 2 slot wideouts instead of a tight end, so I am just passing it along, if you don;;t like it, then don't listen, ignore it and just believe what you want to believe, I ma only telling you what I heard from people who are also speculating, but they are paid to know and find out these things.
RE: Boatie  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 5:24 pm : link
In comment 11594539 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Kyle Williams (Bills) is 6'1", 303 lbs. He's a two-time All-Pro and three-time Pro Bowler. Not bad for a 5th round pick who was also considered too short for the NFL.


He is over 300 lbs.
RE: mrvax  
Klaatu : 3/29/2014 5:24 pm : link
In comment 11594535 PaulN said:
Quote:
Its a huge risk if he can not hold the point of attack, and this is where his issues are. So let's not pretend we know, nobody knows. We have already heard many call him a boom or bust type prospect, people that are so called experts. So there are many of us nervous about Donald. BUT, I want to believe he will give us exactly what we hope. But I am not certain at all, nor are many of the experts.


Wow. There's so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin.

Let's see...you keep saying that Donald can't hold the point of attack, but you provide no evidence of this. Meanwhile, in another thread, Dan in the Springs provides plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Name the experts that have called Donald a boom-or-bust pick. I've found exactly one- Nolan Narwocki - that isn't ridiculously high on Donald, from Mayock, to Boylhart, to Chavous, and everyone in between.

Dude, you're like bossman with better syntax.
RE: Giantology  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 5:24 pm : link
In comment 11594503 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Yes - that's my point - his body profile - doesn't fit the Giants profile


No it doesn't the Giants PREFER a certain body type. But guess what it seems they have shown a willingness more recently to go away from it for a player with good production.

I don't think it will stop them from calling Donald's name if he were still available at 12.
RE: RE: Boatie  
Klaatu : 3/29/2014 5:26 pm : link
In comment 11594547 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
In comment 11594539 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Kyle Williams (Bills) is 6'1", 303 lbs. He's a two-time All-Pro and three-time Pro Bowler. Not bad for a 5th round pick who was also considered too short for the NFL.



He is over 300 lbs.


Yeah...by three whole pounds. So, he's 18 pounds heavier than Donald, but not nearly the athlete - not even close - nor did he have the same production in college - again, not even close.
i've changed my mind  
hightop cleats : 3/29/2014 5:27 pm : link
i used to think the giants should use their first round pick for help on the OL. no longer. the more i read and look at game film, the more i am convinced that aaron donald is simply too good. IMO he is by far the most dominating defensive player in the draft. better than clowney; better than mack; better than the two corners. he is simply a beast. unbelievable moves for a big man, relentless, tackles HARD, great hands. if he isn't doubled he'll be in the backfield before the play develops. if he is, it will free up lanes for others to penetrate. who cares if he's two inches shorter than the "ideal" model. if he's available at 12 (and i'm not sure he will be) the giants would be crazy not to grab him.
RE: Donald  
DonnieD89 : 3/29/2014 5:28 pm : link
In comment 11594473 PaulN said:
Quote:
Has problems holding the point of attack in the running game, that is because of his size, and this against college guards, in the NFL it could be a real problem. We learned in the past that players playing defensive tackle, in our defense must hold the point of attack. This is where he is weak, now if he is off the charts talented enough to give us a tackle who can penetrate up the middle, then he is giving us something else that we could really need.

If he were taller and had a bigger frame, he could add weight without losing his quickness, but he is about maxed out already, so this is the issue with Donald. The one thing that may actually work in his favor is he is so short, that would it be possible, with the right coaching, to teach him how to use his leverage to hold the point of attack. Because we already know he has great strength, if the Giants feel that he could be coached to do this, and he already has what they need physically to do this, and they also feel that his quickness could also work against NFL guards and he could penetrate the defensive line on this level, then this will be our pick. This would be a skill that this team could really use.

I fully acknowledge that I just am not qualified to know the answers to the questions. Maybe some of you feel a lot more certain, I know some want to talk like they know, but I am not here to have a pissing contest to who is right, I am a fan that just loves the Giants and know enough to understand how important a 12th pick in the draft is.

I know this, I want to believe he can do it at this level and then I would really want him to be the pick. I am afraid he won't and then if he is a bust, this is a huge setback, to blow a 12th pick would be devastating.


Paul, This is the exact the way I feel about Donald. I want to believe, but I can't. Not at 12. You are right. It would be a huge set back, if he is chosen and he doesn't pan out, knowing that you have incredibly talented players which Gidie mentioned that were past up. I just can't convince myself. If the Giants do select him, maybe it will give me more faith in him for they are the professionals who are paid to judge such talents and make these decisions.
One of the best defensive tackles the Giants ever had  
Ira : 3/29/2014 5:32 pm : link
and one of my favorite Giants ever was John Mendenhall who was 6-1 255. Donald is the same type of player.
Casserly and Mayock  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:32 pm : link
I believe, there are many on the NFL network that have said it. What evidence can be provided at this point, game highlights of the player. LOL! That is a joke right. Or do they have tape on players failures, when they do then maybe I could provide that, there is no hard evidence anyone can provide! But believe whatever you like, but I am telling you what I have seen, and what I have heard from people on the NFL network, listen to Casserly and Mayock on him, they are both very good. Other then that, you would need to watch game tape of all their games, and I don't think I am going to do that since I don't get paid to do it, and I am not in the brain trust with the Giants. They don't need my expert opinion.

I already said I am no expert, what the heck more do you want me to say, the trouble is that some of you are diluted into thinking you are, so go ahead and act like you know something, have fun, just don't call me out for not buying into it though.
RE: i've changed my mind  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 5:32 pm : link
In comment 11594554 hightop cleats said:
Quote:
i used to think the giants should use their first round pick for help on the OL. no longer. the more i read and look at game film, the more i am convinced that aaron donald is simply too good. IMO he is by far the most dominating defensive player in the draft. better than clowney; better than mack; better than the two corners. he is simply a beast. unbelievable moves for a big man, relentless, tackles HARD, great hands. if he isn't doubled he'll be in the backfield before the play develops. if he is, it will free up lanes for others to penetrate. who cares if he's two inches shorter than the "ideal" model. if he's available at 12 (and i'm not sure he will be) the giants would be crazy not to grab him.


He's friggen awesome. A once in a decade type player at DT. He is THAT good.
I think Aaron Donald  
Joey in VA : 3/29/2014 5:34 pm : link
KNEW he was going to be a giant and intentionally stunted his own growth to sabotage their draft plans
For all you Donald proponents out there  
DonnieD89 : 3/29/2014 5:36 pm : link
If Donald is passed up for a player like Lewan, Evans, Ebron or Matthews, are your going to through your remotes?
RE: I think Aaron Donald  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 5:36 pm : link
In comment 11594562 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
KNEW he was going to be a giant and intentionally stunted his own growth to sabotage their draft plans


Finally a post with some common sense.
Donald is amazing  
Ed A. : 3/29/2014 5:37 pm : link
Look at his production, look at his combine performance, look at his performance in the all star games going against the cream of the OL eligible for the draft. He consistently played against double and triple teams and still put up those numbers and you quibble about an inch or two in height and about 10 pounds?
RE: RE: RE: Boatie  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 5:37 pm : link
In comment 11594551 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 11594547 Boatie Warrant said:


Quote:


In comment 11594539 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Kyle Williams (Bills) is 6'1", 303 lbs. He's a two-time All-Pro and three-time Pro Bowler. Not bad for a 5th round pick who was also considered too short for the NFL.



He is over 300 lbs.



Yeah...by three whole pounds. So, he's 18 pounds heavier than Donald, but not nearly the athlete - not even close - nor did he have the same production in college - again, not even close.


18 lbs is a lot. I don't know if he will be good in the NFL or not. I was just hoping someone knew of a DT that in recent years(the same size as Donald) was successful in the NFL. Some want to compare him to Sapp, but Sapp was 6'2" and 300 lbs plus super quick.

He is under 6'1"......he is under 300 lbs. will he hold up physically in the NFL? That would be my concern.

The height issue(or none issue, depending) has to do with the opposite QB's sight lines. Pretty sure that's why Coach C likes his DT's taller. yes no?
Donnie  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:38 pm : link
I agree, there are many here that like to act like they are experts, but anyone with an ounce of sense knows it is very difficult to determine if a players skills will translate on this level, there are some that are pretty certain, but not many. There are some of the experts calling him a bust or boom type prospect, and that makes me very nervous, but I agree that if the Giants did select him, that I would be a lot more comfortable knowing that they were sold on him. I do not have the expertise to be able to say one way or the other. So I give people back what I have heard, then you get people that get mad because it punches holes in their arguments, LOL. Like I said, I am not going to get into a pissing contest, but if you throw out something you heard that they don't like, they take it personal.
RE: One of the best defensive tackles the Giants ever had  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 5:38 pm : link
In comment 11594559 Ira said:
Quote:
and one of my favorite Giants ever was John Mendenhall who was 6-1 255. Donald is the same type of player.


Someone from after the 2000's is more what I'm looking for.
Ed  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:39 pm : link
You just made me feel better about him, he did do well in that game. Thanks, that was very good.
I  
AcidTest : 3/29/2014 5:40 pm : link
would draft Donald for all the reasons stated here. We can only hope Reese does the same. As somebody said, they drafted Pugh even though he had "short" arms. At some point, production outweighs all other considerations. And what he lacks in "size" he makes up for in strength. He did 35 reps at the combine, most of any DT IIRC. Being lower to the ground also gives him a leverage advantage.

But what Reese should do, and what he will do are entirely different. They may simply want someone bigger at DT, or just have another player more highly rated. I hate to say this, but I think the Giants are more likely to draft Jay Bromley, a poor man's Aaron Donald, in the fourth or fifth, than they are to draft Donald in the first.
.....  
AnishPatel : 3/29/2014 5:43 pm : link
Quote:
He is under 6'1"......he is under 300 lbs. will he hold up physically in the NFL? That would be my concern.


Well not only that, but he uses his explosive ability to get past the guard. If he doesn't win right away using his speed, he gets pushed away on a down block. So once the guard locks on him Donald gets beaten, that's assuming Donald doesn't win first.

How will he do against NFL guards who are 64'6'6 300-350 lbs? Once they lock on will they duck walk his ass to his coach? I don't want to risk drafting a DT in the first round.
Ed  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:44 pm : link
Just remember, the NFL though is 16 games, and he will be playing against better players then that, can he hold up physically, game in and game out? Will it wear on him? Be careful to be so certain, game tape is a trick, game highlights is no way to evaluate a player, let lone Pro days. Look at the game tape of three games in a row against the highest caliber team they went up against and see. I know I don't want to do it, but that would be a good way to do it, without watching every game. Can he do it back to back, remember that game was played when he had a long rest.
RE: I  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 5:45 pm : link
In comment 11594573 AcidTest said:
Quote:
would draft Donald for all the reasons stated here. We can only hope Reese does the same. As somebody said, they drafted Pugh even though he had "short" arms. At some point, production outweighs all other considerations. And what he lacks in "size" he makes up for in strength. He did 35 reps at the combine, most of any DT IIRC. Being lower to the ground also gives him a leverage advantage.

But what Reese should do, and what he will do are entirely different. They may simply want someone bigger at DT, or just have another player more highly rated. I hate to say this, but I think the Giants are more likely to draft Jay Bromley, a poor man's Aaron Donald, in the fourth or fifth, than they are to draft Donald in the first.


Reese's eye for talent is awfully good especially for guys with pass rush ability. Add in his first round success. I don't think we've missed on one guy in the first (with Ross being the closest but even he was a strong contributor to two Super Bowl teams).
EXACTLY  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 5:47 pm : link
Once a guard locks on, that is that, and how often would that happen in the NFL. Look, I am not certain either way, but the people that act like they are, trust me, they don't know any more then me. We are not experts, and even the experts are wrong often, so take everything that is said here with a grain of salt.
RE: .....  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 5:48 pm : link
In comment 11594576 AnishPatel said:
Quote:


Quote:


He is under 6'1"......he is under 300 lbs. will he hold up physically in the NFL? That would be my concern.



Well not only that, but he uses his explosive ability to get past the guard. If he doesn't win right away using his speed, he gets pushed away on a down block. So once the guard locks on him Donald gets beaten, that's assuming Donald doesn't win first.

How will he do against NFL guards who are 64'6'6 300-350 lbs? Once they lock on will they duck walk his ass to his coach? I don't want to risk drafting a DT in the first round.


This is a truly fun debate. And over the years this is one of the first guys I'd ever advocate at DT in the first. THe production and pass rush ability is great for a DE let alone a DT. He then proceeded to dominate in all Senior Bowl practices and game and then had an amazing combine to boot. What else has this guy to do to prove pre-draft he's the goods?
RE: EXACTLY  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 5:50 pm : link
In comment 11594589 PaulN said:
Quote:
Once a guard locks on, that is that, and how often would that happen in the NFL. Look, I am not certain either way, but the people that act like they are, trust me, they don't know any more then me. We are not experts, and even the experts are wrong often, so take everything that is said here with a grain of salt.


Pre injuries Tuck was awfully good at DT in our pass rush packages and he was 268 with a higher center of gravity. It can be done. 285 at 6'0 is pretty stout. He isn't going to be Reggie White or Suh taking on a double team but with what else he brings to table and next to a guy like Hankins he'll be plenty good enough.
Everyone who says Sapp  
cokeduplt : 3/29/2014 5:51 pm : link
Is bigger but sapp carried a lot of extra weight in his stomach, so is he really bigger? 20lbs of gut would make u feel better about Donald as a player?
RE: Donnie  
DonnieD89 : 3/29/2014 5:52 pm : link
In comment 11594569 PaulN said:
Quote:
I agree, there are many here that like to act like they are experts, but anyone with an ounce of sense knows it is very difficult to determine if a players skills will translate on this level, there are some that are pretty certain, but not many. There are some of the experts calling him a bust or boom type prospect, and that makes me very nervous, but I agree that if the Giants did select him, that I would be a lot more comfortable knowing that they were sold on him. I do not have the expertise to be able to say one way or the other. So I give people back what I have heard, then you get people that get mad because it punches holes in their arguments, LOL. Like I said, I am not going to get into a pissing contest, but if you throw out something you heard that they don't like, they take it personal.


Remember years ago there were posters out there that were on the Poz bandwagon? It go so annoying that I would skip onto another thread. I like health debates, not insults. Some of these proponents of Donald have good arguments, as he proven at the college level, the unknown of how his talent translates at the pro level is legit concern given his measurements. Not questioning this could be a big mistake. The Giants staff know what they are doing. I agree. I think the Giants are going to select a more talented player than Donald at 12.
RE: RE: EXACTLY  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 5:54 pm : link
In comment 11594592 GmenDynasty said:
Quote:
In comment 11594589 PaulN said:


Quote:


Once a guard locks on, that is that, and how often would that happen in the NFL. Look, I am not certain either way, but the people that act like they are, trust me, they don't know any more then me. We are not experts, and even the experts are wrong often, so take everything that is said here with a grain of salt.



Pre injuries Tuck was awfully good at DT in our pass rush packages and he was 268 with a higher center of gravity. It can be done. 285 at 6'0 is pretty stout. He isn't going to be Reggie White or Suh taking on a double team but with what else he brings to table and next to a guy like Hankins he'll be plenty good enough.


Tuck was in the DT position mostly only on passing downs. He is 6'5" tall so more in the QB's line of sight.
RE: mrvax - Paul  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 5:55 pm : link
In comment 11594535 PaulN said:
Quote:
Its a huge risk if he can not hold the point of attack, and this is where his issues are. So let's not pretend we know, nobody knows. We have already heard many call him a boom or bust type prospect, people that are so called experts. So there are many of us nervous about Donald. BUT, I want to believe he will give us exactly what we hope. But I am not certain at all, nor are many of the experts.


I respect your opinion and understand your concern. Some claimed he was pushed around during the running plays during the FSU game. BBI poster Dan in the Springs took the time to evaluate every snap Donald was in that game.

Check it out:http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=492557&show_all=1

It begins at 3/26/2014 9:13pm
Some of the guys he faced in this game were just as big or bigger than NFL guys. Very impressive. (This is considered to be Donald's worse game.)

I'm just throwing this out there to see if it could allay some of your (and the NY Giant's) concerns.

This is all I have to say about this guy!  
Simms11 : 3/29/2014 5:56 pm : link
-
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Everyone who says Sapp  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 5:57 pm : link
In comment 11594594 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
Is bigger but sapp carried a lot of extra weight in his stomach, so is he really bigger? 20lbs of gut would make u feel better about Donald as a player?


20 lbs and 2" would at least put him in a category with another player. Right now I can't find one his same size that has been successful in the NFL in recent years.
RE: RE: mrvax - Paul  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 5:58 pm : link
In comment 11594603 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 11594535 PaulN said:


Quote:


Its a huge risk if he can not hold the point of attack, and this is where his issues are. So let's not pretend we know, nobody knows. We have already heard many call him a boom or bust type prospect, people that are so called experts. So there are many of us nervous about Donald. BUT, I want to believe he will give us exactly what we hope. But I am not certain at all, nor are many of the experts.



I respect your opinion and understand your concern. Some claimed he was pushed around during the running plays during the FSU game. BBI poster Dan in the Springs took the time to evaluate every snap Donald was in that game.

Check it out:http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=492557&show_all=1

It begins at 3/26/2014 9:13pm
Some of the guys he faced in this game were just as big or bigger than NFL guys. Very impressive. (This is considered to be Donald's worse game.)

I'm just throwing this out there to see if it could allay some of your (and the NY Giant's) concerns.


And to further add to the point here, he was pretty much the SOLE focus of most teams on Pitts DL. Here he would have JPP (who if finally healthy) should be one of the top DEs in football with a promising Hankins, Moore and a heady vet in Jenkins playing alongside him.
RE: RE: .....  
AnishPatel : 3/29/2014 5:59 pm : link
In comment 11594590 GmenDynasty said:
Quote:
In comment 11594576 AnishPatel said:


Quote:




Quote:


He is under 6'1"......he is under 300 lbs. will he hold up physically in the NFL? That would be my concern.



Well not only that, but he uses his explosive ability to get past the guard. If he doesn't win right away using his speed, he gets pushed away on a down block. So once the guard locks on him Donald gets beaten, that's assuming Donald doesn't win first.

How will he do against NFL guards who are 64'6'6 300-350 lbs? Once they lock on will they duck walk his ass to his coach? I don't want to risk drafting a DT in the first round.



This is a truly fun debate. And over the years this is one of the first guys I'd ever advocate at DT in the first. THe production and pass rush ability is great for a DE let alone a DT. He then proceeded to dominate in all Senior Bowl practices and game and then had an amazing combine to boot. What else has this guy to do to prove pre-draft he's the goods?



DT is a luxury pick right now. I said that before too. The offense is broken AND it's the driving force of our team. You can get defense but if the offense sucks this defense isn't going to do shit. I'd be so pissed if we drafted a DT especially since other offensive players can upgrade our offensive personnel, which kind of sucks by the way. 3/5 OL have question marks. We have NO TE. NO X, and no back up RB. We have issues offensively.

We can always draft a DT later in the draft, and let undrafted FAs come in to rotate in.

Senior Bowl was impressive by him. However, during the course of the season who did he play that is NFL worthy? Did he go against any stud offensive linemen during the course of the season? If so, what round will those prospects be? For example, they played New mexico state or something. Were those OL any good? Will they be drafted?

This goes for all the teams he played against. Are these OL going to be NFL players? I do like what he did in the senior bowl. This draft is loaded offensively. We can grab OL, TE, and WR where we pick at 12. I'd just hate drafting a freaking damn DT in round 1.

I think Donald will rise in the draft and someone in front of the  
wgenesis123 : 3/29/2014 5:59 pm : link
Giants will take a chance on him. To much production plus great combine to be ignored by 11 teams. Someone we don't expect will be there at 12, I just hope it isn't a QB.
RE: RE: Everyone who says Sapp  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 6:00 pm : link
In comment 11594607 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
In comment 11594594 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


Is bigger but sapp carried a lot of extra weight in his stomach, so is he really bigger? 20lbs of gut would make u feel better about Donald as a player?



20 lbs and 2" would at least put him in a category with another player. Right now I can't find one his same size that has been successful in the NFL in recent years.


20lbs and 2 more inches would put him as the consensus #1 pick in the draft.

His production is too good to ignore at 12.
Shame anyone can read BBI  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 6:07 pm : link
I mean most if not all NFL GM's read this stuff daily. (At least if they wanted the best information.)

Now one of these other GMs is probably going to grab Donald before the Giants can. Maybe Eric can lock down the site to all except registered members until the draft is over.
RE: RE: RE: .....  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 6:07 pm : link
In comment 11594611 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
In comment 11594590 GmenDynasty said:


Quote:


In comment 11594576 AnishPatel said:


Quote:




Quote:


He is under 6'1"......he is under 300 lbs. will he hold up physically in the NFL? That would be my concern.



Well not only that, but he uses his explosive ability to get past the guard. If he doesn't win right away using his speed, he gets pushed away on a down block. So once the guard locks on him Donald gets beaten, that's assuming Donald doesn't win first.

How will he do against NFL guards who are 64'6'6 300-350 lbs? Once they lock on will they duck walk his ass to his coach? I don't want to risk drafting a DT in the first round.



This is a truly fun debate. And over the years this is one of the first guys I'd ever advocate at DT in the first. THe production and pass rush ability is great for a DE let alone a DT. He then proceeded to dominate in all Senior Bowl practices and game and then had an amazing combine to boot. What else has this guy to do to prove pre-draft he's the goods?




DT is a luxury pick right now. I said that before too. The offense is broken AND it's the driving force of our team. You can get defense but if the offense sucks this defense isn't going to do shit. I'd be so pissed if we drafted a DT especially since other offensive players can upgrade our offensive personnel, which kind of sucks by the way. 3/5 OL have question marks. We have NO TE. NO X, and no back up RB. We have issues offensively.

We can always draft a DT later in the draft, and let undrafted FAs come in to rotate in.

Senior Bowl was impressive by him. However, during the course of the season who did he play that is NFL worthy? Did he go against any stud offensive linemen during the course of the season? If so, what round will those prospects be? For example, they played New mexico state or something. Were those OL any good? Will they be drafted?

This goes for all the teams he played against. Are these OL going to be NFL players? I do like what he did in the senior bowl. This draft is loaded offensively. We can grab OL, TE, and WR where we pick at 12. I'd just hate drafting a freaking damn DT in round 1.


I hear you but don't have tunnel vision on this one Anish. This kids numbers are mindblowing for a DT. He isn't in some gimmicy defense either which somehow inflated his numbers. He's also exceptionally strong ,has a great initial burst and punch and uses his body to full advantage for leverage.

I HATE DTs in the first round unless they just have absolute eye popping ability and production AND have superior pass rush ability. That's Donald and we actually have a shot to get him at 12.
RE: Gmen Dynasty  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 6:12 pm : link
In comment 11594491 gidiefor said:
Quote:
I know if you say it you believe it - but Charles Barkley = 6' 6"

Charles was more like 6'5 and he played Power Forward quite a bit
RE  
AnishPatel : 3/29/2014 6:15 pm : link
Quote:

I hear you but don't have tunnel vision on this one Anish. This kids numbers are mindblowing for a DT. He isn't in some gimmicy defense either which somehow inflated his numbers. He's also exceptionally strong ,has a great initial burst and punch and uses his body to full advantage for leverage.

I HATE DTs in the first round unless they just have absolute eye popping ability and production AND have superior pass rush ability. That's Donald and we actually have a shot to get him at 12.


If he was so good we'd be calling him a top 5 pick. Moreover, if we don't get him the defense won't fall apart. Our offense stinks! We need to go balls out and upgrade it whenever we can.

We have a shot to get an OL, a possible X, or a very good TE. All of these guys are sorely needed. Reese and Coughlin haven't put their support behind RR which says a lot. Cruz is coming back from a knee and we got nothing afterwards. We have ZERO at TE and like I mentioned 3/5 OL spots aren't good.

That's pretty god awful. If we have a shot to go offense and even upgrade one of the spots, you do it. We have a franchise QB in his prime off a shitty season for many reasons. Another bad season could cost the staff their jobs. If that worst case happens, I don't see us re-signing Eli.

We owe it to add offensive personnel. If we have a shot at OL, possible X or TE then you have to go for it. There is no messing around. If we have a shit show year this team can see major changes.

re: donald. the first tape you guys posted he looked  
alligatorpie : 3/29/2014 6:28 pm : link
like he was sort of getting pushed down the line on runs...in college......the next tape.....not being touched on pass plays. I leave it to you guys to evaluate him....as an NFL player.

However, even IF he is as you say...can Fewell even take advantage of him? or is Fewell too schooled in the d-backs forward and vanilla d-line/two gapping DTs?

I think, regardless of this player, one day when we start running each down from the D line back, and alternating attacks there,...we will be very entertained!
I agree with all that but you cant ignore  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 6:28 pm : link
A guy who will likely be glaring BPA at one of the most highly valued positions on this team after QB (and this is after losing two key DL in Tuck and Linjo).

We can go OL quite comfortably in rd 2 AND likely get a very good one then go WR in rd 3 . Due to the extreme depth at wideout (which might be the deepest position in a deep draft) we have a pretty good chance of getting a good WR at 73 as well. We will be drafting to the strengths of rounds 2 and 3 in the top half of each round. Crockett Gilmore in rd 4 or someone of that ilk.
Anish:  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 6:29 pm : link
Quote:
If he was so good we'd be calling him a top 5 pick. Moreover, if we don't get him the defense won't fall apart. Our offense stinks! We need to go balls out and upgrade it whenever we can.

We have a shot to get an OL, a possible X, or a very good TE. All of these guys are sorely needed. Reese and Coughlin haven't put their support behind RR which says a lot. Cruz is coming back from a knee and we got nothing afterwards. We have ZERO at TE and like I mentioned 3/5 OL spots aren't good.

That's pretty god awful. If we have a shot to go offense and even upgrade one of the spots, you do it. We have a franchise QB in his prime off a shitty season for many reasons. Another bad season could cost the staff their jobs. If that worst case happens, I don't see us re-signing Eli.

We owe it to add offensive personnel. If we have a shot at OL, possible X or TE then you have to go for it. There is no messing around. If we have a shit show year this team can see major changes.


Your best argument against Donald is that the defense will not fall apart without him. Agreed.

However, neither Ebron or Evans is without some pretty strong doubts.

My idea is to grab Donald if possible (I believe he's the best play maker in this draft) and go all out for offense with 2-7.

That's 6 guys. I'm sure you're aware of some outstanding WR prospects that expect to go round 2. Then for TE, why not grab Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Troy Niklas or C.J. Fiedorowicz. Then grab Marcus Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Moses or Richardson.

I'm thinking you get your BPA first then draft for need and offense is NEED.


RE: RE: Everyone who says Sapp  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/29/2014 6:30 pm : link
In comment 11594607 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
In comment 11594594 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


Is bigger but sapp carried a lot of extra weight in his stomach, so is he really bigger? 20lbs of gut would make u feel better about Donald as a player?



20 lbs and 2" would at least put him in a category with another player. Right now I can't find one his same size that has been successful in the NFL in recent years.


Cullen Jenkins.
RE: he would a 3 technique  
Giants2012 : 3/29/2014 6:44 pm : link
In comment 11594463 George from PA said:
Quote:
Linval and big hank are 1s. He would replace Jenkins.


Ty - was worried nobody would recognize that.
RE: Anish:  
AnishPatel : 3/29/2014 6:46 pm : link
In comment 11594647 mrvax said:
Quote:


Quote:


If he was so good we'd be calling him a top 5 pick. Moreover, if we don't get him the defense won't fall apart. Our offense stinks! We need to go balls out and upgrade it whenever we can.

We have a shot to get an OL, a possible X, or a very good TE. All of these guys are sorely needed. Reese and Coughlin haven't put their support behind RR which says a lot. Cruz is coming back from a knee and we got nothing afterwards. We have ZERO at TE and like I mentioned 3/5 OL spots aren't good.

That's pretty god awful. If we have a shot to go offense and even upgrade one of the spots, you do it. We have a franchise QB in his prime off a shitty season for many reasons. Another bad season could cost the staff their jobs. If that worst case happens, I don't see us re-signing Eli.

We owe it to add offensive personnel. If we have a shot at OL, possible X or TE then you have to go for it. There is no messing around. If we have a shit show year this team can see major changes.




Your best argument against Donald is that the defense will not fall apart without him. Agreed.

However, neither Ebron or Evans is without some pretty strong doubts.

My idea is to grab Donald if possible (I believe he's the best play maker in this draft) and go all out for offense with 2-7.

That's 6 guys. I'm sure you're aware of some outstanding WR prospects that expect to go round 2. Then for TE, why not grab Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Troy Niklas or C.J. Fiedorowicz. Then grab Marcus Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Moses or Richardson.

I'm thinking you get your BPA first then draft for need and offense is NEED.




I don't think he is the best playmaker in he draft. If he was we'd be touting him as a top 5 pick. He has been productive in college. However, at the next level I question if he can do what he did in college against NFL OL men.

If we ran our old system of the two way TE, 6'5 256-270 lb Te then fine. I want an athletic player in Ebron. Hell, I'd go Evans as our X too. The other TEs don't do anything for me. If we ran the older system then perhaps fine.

But none of the other TEs really excite me. That's the thing though why wait until round 2? If the 3 prospects are there why pass on them? We can address the perfect marriage of need and value with OL, TE or WR. We can always address DT later. It's not a huge need. Sure we can add to the DL. Fine, but this year should be about adding to any offensive personnel especially if value meets need perfectly.

I believe any of the 3 positions with those prospects would be ideal.
So you  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 6:46 pm : link
Want this guy at 12 because he is Cullen Jenkins? Is that your argument? If it is, and you say he will be Jenkins, then I say pass, although Jenkins is good, not a top 12 pick, but anyway we all don't know, his size is an issue. For the ones that say,. prove it that experts are calling him boom or bust, here is something Mayock said, that shows there are a lot of people that think he is more a 2nd round type pick, let alone top 12.

MAYOCK: As far as Aaron Donald, he's a guy I loved at Senior Bowl and love him on tape and he's explosive and he's quick. Now, the problem with the shorter defensive tackles is that when they don't win with their first move, they don't win with their quickness, they can get stuck on blocks because they don't have the length to get off the block. And that's the concern with Donald. Now, I think this kid's tough enough, quick enough and disruptive enough that he still deserves to be a first‑round defensive tackle, so I'm a believer in the kid, but there are some people that think he's a second‑round defensive tackle, because of the lack of length.
A couple names  
SamdaGiantsFan : 3/29/2014 6:50 pm : link
of some good DTs in this league in the "Donald" mold...Geno Atkins...Jurrell Casey, TEN...Brandon Mebane, SEA...Akeem Spence, TB, a rookie last year who played pretty well next to Gerald McCoy. These guys are closer or over 300 lbs, but they are right at 6'1'. We all saw how physically strong he is at the combine, he bench pressed 35 times.
I have looked at all the current DT's in the NFL (ESPN's list)  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 6:54 pm : link
Not one DT is under 6'1" and in the 280 lb area. Three players are 6'1" and in the 290's.

Mike Daniels 6'0" 291lbs. (GreenBay roster has him at 300) 3-4 Defense
Mike Martin 6'1" 298lbs (Tennesse roster has him at 306) Going to 3-4 Defense this year
Zach Minter 6'1" 297lbs Cincinnati 4-3 Defense

These guys were the closest I could find.





Another comment that concerns me  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 7:00 pm : link


Donald's only true weakness is one that has been out of his control from the beginning. At 6'1", 285 pounds, he's vastly undersized for a prospect at his position. Scouts Inc. took measurements of all of the combine participants between 2008 and 2012 and found that the average defensive tackle was 6'2-7/8" and 304.8 pounds.

There's also talk that Donald shuts it down early on in plays once he feels he can no longer have an impact. SB Nation's Stephen White broke down five games of film on Donald and this is what he saw:


I can't overlook the fact that if it's not immediately apparent that he can make a play on the ball, Donald shuts down early....There are times when the play is still going on and Donald is literally walking. WALKING!!!

His short arms will hamper his ability to shed longer blockers, and he won't be able to manhandle double teams in the NFL like he did in the ACC. But Donald did blow away scouts with his performance at the combine:




Donald will creat all kinds of havoc in the backfield.  
bronxgiant : 3/29/2014 7:01 pm : link
The amount of penalties he will create because of his quickness is crazy. Some are talking about when a guard locks on but forgets that that same guard have to get to him first. His short area quickness is better than any DT for many a year. As someone mentioned earlier about John Mendenhall being short but really active Donald looks the part but with even more speed. He will also be on a team with pretty good DL also not like at Pitt where he was the only noticeable defensive lineman.
RE: A couple names  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 7:02 pm : link
In comment 11594670 SamdaGiantsFan said:
Quote:
of some good DTs in this league in the "Donald" mold...Geno Atkins...Jurrell Casey, TEN...Brandon Mebane, SEA...Akeem Spence, TB, a rookie last year who played pretty well next to Gerald McCoy. These guys are closer or over 300 lbs, but they are right at 6'1'. We all saw how physically strong he is at the combine, he bench pressed 35 times.


Mitch Petrus did 45 reps at his combine. Didn't make him an all pro. And none of those guys are Donalds size. Height yes, size no.

I want to say I am not necessarily against picking him but I am skeptical about the history (or current lack of) for a player his size at DT.
More opinions from a GM this time  
PaulN : 3/29/2014 7:04 pm : link
In terms of explosion and quickness there is nobody more gifted than Donald. He gets out of his stance so fast and is so quick that blockers repeatedly struggle to get a hold of him before itfs too late. His pass rush skill from the interior is rare and would be coveted in the right system. That is why the Bears are widely considered his top destination. The departure of Henry Melton at their three-technique position, the pass rusher spot makes Donald look awfully enticing. This especially after the acquisitions of Jared Allen and Lamarr Houston at defensive end. However, there is one rather dubious sticking point that canft be dismissed. Donald is small. No, not small but he is short. At 6f1 he doesnft have ideal length for a defensive tackle nor the long arms that would help him shed blocks, which is why hefs reliant on speed and quickness. Bears GM Phil Emery was asked months ago if hefs learned anything from his experiment with his first defensive line draft pick, Shea McClellin. He responded honestly, stating he would put size and length higher on the list of priorities. If that is true, then Donald doesnft fit the criteria.
Another point also. The NFl is a passing league these days.  
bronxgiant : 3/29/2014 7:10 pm : link
Donald next to Jenkins will get into the backfield and put pressure up the middle. Will make it harder to step up into the pocket when the DE's are coming off the edge. Running the football is not the focus of the league anymore so Donald is perfect for creating quick pressure up the middle. Seattle's pass rush showed this.
RE: Another point also. The NFl is a passing league these days.  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 7:14 pm : link
In comment 11594699 bronxgiant said:
Quote:
Donald next to Jenkins will get into the backfield and put pressure up the middle. Will make it harder to step up into the pocket when the DE's are coming off the edge. Running the football is not the focus of the league anymore so Donald is perfect for creating quick pressure up the middle. Seattle's pass rush showed this.


And both their starting DT's are over 300lbs and one is 6'7" tall
Hand writing on the wall  
PEEJ : 3/29/2014 7:16 pm : link
Added no DT in FA
Kuhn the only back-up
Jenkins 33 yrs old.
RE: Hand writing on the wall  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 7:18 pm : link
In comment 11594707 PEEJ said:
Quote:
Added no DT in FA
Kuhn the only back-up
Jenkins 33 yrs old.


But that writing doesn't necessarily say Round 1
Read what Donald's position coach says:  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 7:20 pm : link
Quote:
I was [a coach at] UCLA when Datone Jones was there, Breckterfield said. But I havent seen that type of combo of speed and power [like Donald has]. I havent been around anything like that in my coaching career. They only come around once in a blue moon.

The NFL has been hesitant to adjust its norms on a position-by-position basis. Nose tackles still are expected to weigh in at 330 pounds; corners with height in the 6-2 range are chased like water in the desert; quarterbacks, no matter the successes of Drew Brees or Russell Wilson, have a clear prototype that emphasizes height.

Donald has become one of the rare prospects capable of rocking the boat. His stunning speed You watch him move, when hes chasing down quarterbacks, he closes that gap real quick, Breckterfield said and quickness off the snap may turn him into a new-breed of tackle at the next level.

I think hes done a great job of proving to those that are in the know that hes a great football player, said Breckterfield, who during an interview with SI repeatedly emphasized Donalds work ethic. Thats all they have left to knock is his height.


Excellent Donald article if you care:
http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/07/aaron-donald-2014-nfl-draft/
RE: RE: A couple names  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 7:25 pm : link
In comment 11594686 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
In comment 11594670 SamdaGiantsFan said:


Quote:


of some good DTs in this league in the "Donald" mold...Geno Atkins...Jurrell Casey, TEN...Brandon Mebane, SEA...Akeem Spence, TB, a rookie last year who played pretty well next to Gerald McCoy. These guys are closer or over 300 lbs, but they are right at 6'1'. We all saw how physically strong he is at the combine, he bench pressed 35 times.



Mitch Petrus did 45 reps at his combine. Didn't make him an all pro. And none of those guys are Donalds size. Height yes, size no.

I want to say I am not necessarily against picking him but I am skeptical about the history (or current lack of) for a player his size at DT.


Petrus is not nearly as good in the technique, footwork and quickness department as Donald is. Bad comparison.
Don't Misjudge  
billdegs : 3/29/2014 7:28 pm : link
Aaron Donald reminds me of Dustin Pedroia. Keep harping on his size!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: RE: RE: A couple names  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 7:31 pm : link
In comment 11594732 GmenDynasty said:
Quote:
In comment 11594686 Boatie Warrant said:


Quote:


In comment 11594670 SamdaGiantsFan said:


Quote:


of some good DTs in this league in the "Donald" mold...Geno Atkins...Jurrell Casey, TEN...Brandon Mebane, SEA...Akeem Spence, TB, a rookie last year who played pretty well next to Gerald McCoy. These guys are closer or over 300 lbs, but they are right at 6'1'. We all saw how physically strong he is at the combine, he bench pressed 35 times.



Mitch Petrus did 45 reps at his combine. Didn't make him an all pro. And none of those guys are Donalds size. Height yes, size no.

I want to say I am not necessarily against picking him but I am skeptical about the history (or current lack of) for a player his size at DT.



Petrus is not nearly as good in the technique, footwork and quickness department as Donald is. Bad comparison.


Seeing as the comparison was about bench reps pretty sure its a good one. The point being Bench press does not mean strong during game play. Players have to have lower body strength as well to make that upper body strength worth while. Does Donald have it? I don't know......
RE: RE: Anish:  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 7:38 pm : link
In comment 11594665 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
In comment 11594647 mrvax said:


Quote:




Quote:


If he was so good we'd be calling him a top 5 pick. Moreover, if we don't get him the defense won't fall apart. Our offense stinks! We need to go balls out and upgrade it whenever we can.

We have a shot to get an OL, a possible X, or a very good TE. All of these guys are sorely needed. Reese and Coughlin haven't put their support behind RR which says a lot. Cruz is coming back from a knee and we got nothing afterwards. We have ZERO at TE and like I mentioned 3/5 OL spots aren't good.

That's pretty god awful. If we have a shot to go offense and even upgrade one of the spots, you do it. We have a franchise QB in his prime off a shitty season for many reasons. Another bad season could cost the staff their jobs. If that worst case happens, I don't see us re-signing Eli.

We owe it to add offensive personnel. If we have a shot at OL, possible X or TE then you have to go for it. There is no messing around. If we have a shit show year this team can see major changes.




Your best argument against Donald is that the defense will not fall apart without him. Agreed.

However, neither Ebron or Evans is without some pretty strong doubts.

My idea is to grab Donald if possible (I believe he's the best play maker in this draft) and go all out for offense with 2-7.

That's 6 guys. I'm sure you're aware of some outstanding WR prospects that expect to go round 2. Then for TE, why not grab Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Troy Niklas or C.J. Fiedorowicz. Then grab Marcus Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Moses or Richardson.

I'm thinking you get your BPA first then draft for need and offense is NEED.






I don't think he is the best playmaker in he draft. If he was we'd be touting him as a top 5 pick. He has been productive in college. However, at the next level I question if he can do what he did in college against NFL OL men.

If we ran our old system of the two way TE, 6'5 256-270 lb Te then fine. I want an athletic player in Ebron. Hell, I'd go Evans as our X too. The other TEs don't do anything for me. If we ran the older system then perhaps fine.

But none of the other TEs really excite me. That's the thing though why wait until round 2? If the 3 prospects are there why pass on them? We can address the perfect marriage of need and value with OL, TE or WR. We can always address DT later. It's not a huge need. Sure we can add to the DL. Fine, but this year should be about adding to any offensive personnel especially if value meets need perfectly.

I believe any of the 3 positions with those prospects would be ideal.


Anish I LOVE Ebron. This draft is so loaded with impact players. But heres the deal, Id still be upset if we picked him. Not an exact comparison but youll get my point: We'd be getting a Jeremy Shockey but passing on a guy who I think will be better than John Randle.
I want nothing more than a great pass rush  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 7:43 pm : link
If Donald does that for us sign me up. I would love to see a game changer chase down plays from behind and have RB's and QB's have that "where the heck you come from" look on their face. I would love to have another player in Giant's history who changed the way their position is looked at and played.

I want Dominance! I want our Defense to be "FEARED!" once again. But like many I am skeptical. Can you blame me?

How about this:  
PonderingObserver : 3/29/2014 7:49 pm : link
John Mendenhall
Position: DT-NT
Height: 6-1 Weight: 255 lbs.
Born: December 3, 1948 in Cullen, LA (Age 65)
College: Grambling St.
Drafted by the New York Giants in the 3rd round (55th overall) of the 1972 NFL Draft.


Link - ( New Window )
RE: How about this:  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 7:54 pm : link
In comment 11594758 PonderingObserver said:
Quote:
John Mendenhall
Position: DT-NT
Height: 6-1 Weight: 255 lbs.
Born: December 3, 1948 in Cullen, LA (Age 65)
College: Grambling St.
Drafted by the New York Giants in the 3rd round (55th overall) of the 1972 NFL Draft.
Link - ( New Window )


That was 4 decades ago when there was what, 5 players the entire 70's that were 300 lbs? Do you know of any in the last 10 years? Because there are no under 6'1" under 290 lb DT's in the NFL right now according to the data on ESPN's list.
.....  
AnishPatel : 3/29/2014 8:00 pm : link
Quote:
Anish I LOVE Ebron. This draft is so loaded with impact players. But heres the deal, Id still be upset if we picked him. Not an exact comparison but youll get my point: We'd be getting a Jeremy Shockey but passing on a guy who I think will be better than John Randle.


See I don't think both comparisons are true. We don't know what either player can be good or bad.

I think that's the debate going on in each draft room. Out of the scouts for each franchise it all depends on what majority believe Donald is the guy and what don't.

I just can't see us passing 3 positions of need meeting value for a DT. I'd be shocked if we went Donald. I know I'd be pissed, but shocked too. As in holy fuck we went DT kinda shocked.

Taylor Lewan  
vinnieNJ : 3/29/2014 8:02 pm : link
I have the feeling that this will be our pick at 12. It makes sense to take an OL here and he should be there. There is still work to be done here and if so it may continue in further signings. Bring in all the dancing elephants that you can. Once the Oline is complete everything else (offensive wise) should fall into place but this is the foundation and they will not go into this season with anything close to last year regarding the line.
From Phil Savage:  
Klaatu : 3/29/2014 8:11 pm : link
Quote:
He came into the Reese's Senior Bowl in late January with a ton of accolades (Outland, Bednarik, Lombardi and Nagusrki Award winner), but was only thought of as a likely second round choice, maybe a late first-rounder. But after dominating practices at the Senior Bowl, he left Mobile as maybe a mid-first round pick and now after his performance at the NFL Combine, some people are talking about him maybe cracking into the top-10. Aaron Donald has certainly answered the bell at every stop -- his regular season, all-star season, combine season. He's done everthing he can do and now it's just the matter of a team falling in love with him and turning the card.


From Daniel Jeremiah:
(AD is his #1 ranked DT, #14 overall)

Quote:
Donald, who won every major defensive award in 2013, is undersized for his position but plays much bigger than his height/weight. He is a disruptive force against the run and pass, and his production is off the charts (28.5 sacks, 64 TFL in career). Against the run, he shocks defenders with his punch and is able to separate from blocks to pick up tackles. He has the foot quickness to split double teams and does a nice job of flattening to the ball carrier on perimeter runs. As a pass rusher, he has a variety of moves and hit the quarterback multiple times in every game I viewed.


From Bucky Brooks:
(AD ranked #13 on his Big Board, 02/26/14)

Quote:
Donald has been rising up the charts since posting a dominant senior campaign that prompted scouts to compare his game to Pro Bowl DT Geno Atkins. The 6-1, 285-pounder dominated the Senior Bowl drills with his exceptional first-step quickness and burst, yet also displayed impressive strength, power and leverage against the run. The buzz is continuing to grow after scouts witnessed Donald put on an athletic show that suggests he possesses the physical traits needed to shine as a pro.


Here's Brooks comparing Geno Atkins to Aaron Donald

From Corey Chavous:
(AD ranked #4 on the DraftNasty Big Board)

Quote:
It's hard to find many negatives in Donald's game other than size and positional fit. As a defensive tackle he can be schemed versus the run, and teams which two-gap may not have him on their boards. There aren't as many 40-front, one-gap schemes in the NFL as there were 10 years ago. Pittsburgh aligned him as an end in 30-fronts and as both a DE and three-technique in their 4-3 looks. From a positional flexibility standpoint, some NFL team may even [see him as) a Melvin Ingram-type (Chargers) facet on third downs. This is the type of athleticism and versatility Donald brings to the table. Aaron is a powerful, disruptive mix of Ingram and Buffalo Bills defensive tackle Kyle Williams. We think he has first round value.


From Russ Lande:
(12/14/13, before his Bowl Game, Senior Bowl, and Combine)

Quote:
Donald is a fourth-year senior and a three-year starter at defensive tackle. Out of high school, he was rated as a three-star prospect but was not highly recruited. Many of his offers were from MAC schools. The reason for this was his height, or lack thereof. Donald measures only 6000 and has a play weight of around 290. That lack of ideal size did not stop him from having dominating performances.

Donald lines up as a three-technique in Pitt's 4-3 scheme. While he lacks ideal height, he has long arms, is very strong, and is a very good athlete. His initial quickness is exceptional. He, often, is past his opponent before they can get a hand on him. He has very good instincts and reactions and is consistently around the ball. In the run game, he is very disruptive because of his ability to shed blocks and penetrate. This year, he had 26.5 tackles for loss. He is highly competitive with a non-stop motor and is a relentless pursuit player.

Aaron is also a top inside pass rusher. He has quick hands and very good inside hand use. He has the skill set to set up blockers with both his hands and feet. He shows a variety of moves and uses counter moves effectively. Going into their Bowl game, Donald has 10 sacks this year and close to 30 for his career. Donalds size, athleticism and skill set say he is best suited to play as a three-technique for a one-gap 4-3 defense in the NFL. A team that plays that scheme could very well draft him high.


Oh, and unless Mike Mayock's changed it in the last two minutes, Aaron Donald is still his #1 ranked DT, reservations and all.
RE: .....  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 8:12 pm : link
In comment 11594764 AnishPatel said:
Quote:


Quote:


Anish I LOVE Ebron. This draft is so loaded with impact players. But heres the deal, Id still be upset if we picked him. Not an exact comparison but youll get my point: We'd be getting a Jeremy Shockey but passing on a guy who I think will be better than John Randle.



See I don't think both comparisons are true. We don't know what either player can be good or bad.

I think that's the debate going on in each draft room. Out of the scouts for each franchise it all depends on what majority believe Donald is the guy and what don't.

I just can't see us passing 3 positions of need meeting value for a DT. I'd be shocked if we went Donald. I know I'd be pissed, but shocked too. As in holy fuck we went DT kinda shocked.


Anish what position have we went for time after time in the top 3 rounds? A passrusher. We value pass rushers more than any other position besides Qb. It borders on obssession. Sintim was a high second at LB mainly because of his perceived passrush ability.Now this year is a bit unique with the state of the offense and coaching changeover but alot has been done in FA to bolster the O. If the Giants think he is a legit passrushing threat from the DT position, it would be suprising if he was NOT the pick.

We can STILL get a high quality OL at 43 then Wr TE in rounds 3-4.
Gidiefor is right.  
81_Great_Dane : 3/29/2014 8:22 pm : link
Gidiefor put forward a testable hypothesis: The Giants like to draft defensive tackles of a certain size.

He supported that hypothesis by listing the sizes of DTs drafted by the Giants in recent years.

Aaron Donald is pretty clearly an outlier compared with those other DTs. Maybe you could argue the sample size is too small to draw conclusions, but I disagree. There does appear to be a pretty clear trend.

What followed above is a long thread with a lot of people criticizing the argument based on what they think the Giants should do and why they think Aaron Donald's size shouldn't matter. But nothing has changed at the Giants. It's the same front office, the same defensive alignment, the same defensive coordinator -- the only thing that would make us think the Giants would deviate from this trend is "Aaron Donald is just so damn good." I have no way of telling if he's really that good or how good he'll be in the NFL, or whether the Giants see him that way. But they will be going against their established pattern if they take him.

By the way, the Giants have a number of established patterns but they have shown they will deviate from them at times. They don't draft centers very often (still a trend). They don't like to take RBs in the 1st (but took Wilson).

Anyway, thank you, Gidiefor for doing some fact-based analysis.

P.S. - Pugh's arms became a topic after the draft, in part because he wasn't on most fans' radar as a top pick for the NYG.

A lot of great NFL players were "too short"  
PEEJ : 3/29/2014 8:39 pm : link
John Randel
Bob Sanders
Sam Mills
Joe Morris
Daryl Green
Steve Smith

As one coach used to say, "It's not the size of the dog in the fight. It's the size of the fight in the dog."

I can't let 2" of height sway my opinion of a good (maybe great) football player.
Fact based analysis?  
Klaatu : 3/29/2014 8:44 pm : link
He compared Donald, a 3-tech, to two 1-techs and a DE. Jack Webb would not approve.
The Giants won their  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 8:45 pm : link
last 2 Superbowls due to a terrific pass rush.
See John Randle  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 8:50 pm : link
I didn't know he was 287 lbs. So there is one example of a 6'1" 287 lb DT who has played in the NFL since 2000.

I think we would all like a John Randle on this current roster. Would be great if Donald was that guy(including nasty heckling and all would be nice)
RE: .....  
GmenDynasty : 3/29/2014 9:31 pm : link
In comment 11594764 AnishPatel said:
Quote:


Quote:


Anish I LOVE Ebron. This draft is so loaded with impact players. But heres the deal, Id still be upset if we picked him. Not an exact comparison but youll get my point: We'd be getting a Jeremy Shockey but passing on a guy who I think will be better than John Randle.



See I don't think both comparisons are true. We don't know what either player can be good or bad.

I think that's the debate going on in each draft room. Out of the scouts for each franchise it all depends on what majority believe Donald is the guy and what don't.

I just can't see us passing 3 positions of need meeting value for a DT. I'd be shocked if we went Donald. I know I'd be pissed, but shocked too. As in holy fuck we went DT kinda shocked.


We don't know but we can project . And Im guessing the Giants may feel similarly. I bet they feel Ebron is going to be good but Donald could be a once in a decade talent at DT.
Im still waiting for someone to explain in detail  
Blue Blood : 3/29/2014 9:42 pm : link
how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...
Maybe the Giants should only sign  
Jupiter : 3/29/2014 9:54 pm : link
circus giants from Ringling Bros. college.
RE: Im still waiting for someone to explain in detail  
Boatie Warrant : 3/29/2014 10:05 pm : link
In comment 11594860 Blue Blood said:
Quote:
how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...


It's not a matter of explaining how it would be better for him but how historically (except for one name, John Randle) no other DT has been successful(1st round talent successful) in the NFL at under 6'1" and below 290 lbs.

It's  
RonJohnson : 3/29/2014 10:08 pm : link
not the size of the dog in the fight

It's the size of the fight in the dog.
RE: RE: Im still waiting for someone to explain in detail  
Blue Blood : 3/29/2014 10:17 pm : link
In comment 11594886 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
In comment 11594860 Blue Blood said:


Quote:


how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...



It's not a matter of explaining how it would be better for him but how historically (except for one name, John Randle) no other DT has been successful(1st round talent successful) in the NFL at under 6'1" and below 290 lbs.


ok so basically you cant explain it.. check..

anyone else want to try..
RE: RE: RE: Im still waiting for someone to explain in detail  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 10:36 pm : link
In comment 11594910 Blue Blood said:
Quote:

how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...


ok so basically you cant explain it.. check..

anyone else want to try..


Yes. Let me clue you in. By adding 15-20 pounds he would immediately move from the 10-20 draft position to right there with Clowney. See how smart I am? What do I win?
Shortest distance between two points  
PA Giant Fan : 3/29/2014 11:01 pm : link
Is a straight line....Its a passing league. Give me the guy that will beat his man up the middle in a split second...I also see him playing some DE...

Been watching some videos of different draft picks and this kid stood out the most or all of them.

Davante Adams jumped out at me too.....see him on par with the top guys...maybe a hair below watkins but has a pro game...reminds me of Cruz a little actually with how he goes after the ball
Maybe Davante Adams  
mrvax : 3/29/2014 11:15 pm : link
could be that X-receiver we need so bad.


CBS quote: Deceptive straight-line speed to challenge deep and shows good balance and overall body control to gain separation on comeback and out routes.
Donald  
PaulN : 3/30/2014 12:25 am : link
Is boom or bust, at 12 that is a huge risk, when the Giants do pass, I love to hear the outrage, a few years back it was over that Tight End out of Stanford that plays for the Colts. Every year there is a BBI darling, and every year they prove to be a bust, this is as much fun as anything we do all year, watching the BBI meltdown during the draft.

Maybe one day they will hit, that would be fun also, then if that didn't work out, it will be Coughlin being too old to adjust to this magnificent player, he is too stubborn. LOL! I love it!
The tight end  
PaulN : 3/30/2014 12:26 am : link
Was a bust basically, LOL! But he was the guy we had to draft.
No matter the quality Giant TE's get all beat to hell.  
wgenesis123 : 3/30/2014 3:03 am : link
Even my favorite Bavaro was constantly hurt. Don't think its wise to invest a first round pick at this position.
RE: Donald  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 5:59 am : link
In comment 11595070 PaulN said:
Quote:
Is boom or bust, at 12 that is a huge risk, when the Giants do pass, I love to hear the outrage, a few years back it was over that Tight End out of Stanford that plays for the Colts. Every year there is a BBI darling, and every year they prove to be a bust, this is as much fun as anything we do all year, watching the BBI meltdown during the draft.

Maybe one day they will hit, that would be fun also, then if that didn't work out, it will be Coughlin being too old to adjust to this magnificent player, he is too stubborn. LOL! I love it!


Yeah that was Fleener and if you remember,
We were at the back end of the draft and our team had less perceived needs than it does now but TE was a pretty big need. Fleener was a very good looking TE (not as good as Ebron) but thats why he had a shot at him. In any event he had 52 catches last year and looks to be steadily improving/acclimating to the NFL. Id hardly call that a bust. Some guys dont light it up right away which is why you look for flashes and/or steady improvement.
So now Donald  
Modus Operandi : 3/30/2014 6:09 am : link
Is going to be better than John Randle. A HOF player.

Seriously JJ. I wonder if even you believe what you write sometimes.
RE: Donald  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 6:12 am : link
In comment 11595070 PaulN said:
Quote:
Is boom or bust, at 12 that is a huge risk, when the Giants do pass, I love to hear the outrage, a few years back it was over that Tight End out of Stanford that plays for the Colts. Every year there is a BBI darling, and every year they prove to be a bust, this is as much fun as anything we do all year, watching the BBI meltdown during the draft.

Maybe one day they will hit, that would be fun also, then if that didn't work out, it will be Coughlin being too old to adjust to this magnificent player, he is too stubborn. LOL! I love it!


Donald is a gamechanger from the DT position. He is going to make 11 teams deeply regret not taking him.

I loved Alshon a few years back and hated Randle. But even though Alshon had 1400 yds and Randle didnt look great last year in our complex/broken offense Im not calling him a bust yet. Lets see what he does next year in likely a very new more straightforward offense .

Ive also touted the first round OL around here quite a bit (wanted Joe Staleyover Ross and wanted Solder) and pretty much hate any first round DT that was llikely to make our pick in round 1.

Donald is a bigtime exception. He is a bonafide passrusher from the DT position with DE versatility. Tuck was our hybrid De-DT for years at 268 lbs and pretty good at it. IMO This guy will be at least better than the Tuck of the last few years.
RE: So now Donald  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 6:18 am : link
In comment 11595132 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Is going to be better than John Randle. A HOF player.

Seriously JJ. I wonder if even you believe what you write sometimes.


Love the Donald, Thats the potential I see with this kid. How many DTs can you name that had better college numbers than this guy? Sometimes production is so good you have to ignore the measurables. His only bad measurable is his height and his weight is very good for his height and his insane speed/strength make up for it.
Ok...  
Modus Operandi : 3/30/2014 6:48 am : link
You're as emotionally fickle as a 13 y/o girl. I get it.

Assuming a prospect will start and be productive in year one is wishful thinking. You've skipped that step altogether and already have Donald enshrined.

RE: Ok...  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 6:53 am : link
In comment 11595143 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
You're as emotionally fickle as a 13 y/o girl. I get it.

Assuming a prospect will start and be productive in year one is wishful thinking. You've skipped that step altogether and already have Donald enshrined.


You are right. He may not dominate year one especially at DT where the learning curve is higher. But I do think he is pretty polished and will play decently with some flashes at minimum.
Donald could be our 3rd and long DT  
SGMen : 3/30/2014 7:07 am : link
He'd replace Jenkins on passing downs even as a rookie.
Donald has strength and quickness that few possess. I just don't know if he has say "John Randle's" motor / motivation to win. Randle is similarly sized and had an All-Pro career because he played every down like it was his last. He was a nasty player with a mouth, motor and drive few can match.

If Donald wants to overcome the "little guy" syndrome he must develop that motor too. Will he? That is the only question mark I have on him. His size, speed, weight, arm length be damned cause his play is pretty dosh darn good.

However, having said all that I still am praying Bridgewater is there at #12 and a team comes calling offering us a DE and their #1 for Bridgewater. A 3rd year DE with some upside could be the last piece to making this defense superb. With a later pick I'd take Z. Martin for the interior OL cause he'll be a rock and likely start if Snee does not hold up.
RE: Donald could be our 3rd and long DT  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 8:45 am : link
Good post.

Does he have the tenacity and have the sheer determination and desire of Randle? I guess we'll see but he certainly showed ot in the Senior Bowl practices and game vs some future NFL lineman.
RE: It's  
Ira : 3/30/2014 8:59 am : link
In comment 11594896 RonJohnson said:
Quote:
not the size of the dog in the fight

It's the size of the fight in the dog.


Well said.
I haven't  
dorgan : 3/30/2014 9:31 am : link
seen enough of his game tape to be convinced one way or the other, but the penetrating 3 tech DT has a place in the game.

There is a current trend to use a lot of 3 step against the Giants because of our reputation to pressure from the DE position. You want to stop 3 step, the best way is to either:
A. push the middle of the OL back to keep the QB from stepping up into the throw, and it also has the added benefit of cluttering up the curl zone so the Qb has to put more air under the ball.

B. penetration from the DTs, rather than push. Make that QB move.

Couple either of those two with a squat cover 2 or man coverage and you've got a great chance of dissuading a team from going with a steady diet of 3 step.


His size is less important if you can determine that he plays with leverage and gets the big muscles involved when he's engaged. Sometimes, he does. Sometimes, he doesn't.

From what little I've seen of him, I'd guess he can be coached up to be a real force, both inside and occasionally from the outside.
Great first steps like his are had to find.


I agree with Rip Van Winkle here  
Joey in VA : 3/30/2014 9:36 am : link
The middle of the defense has become more important with the new passing rules. Teams won't have the time to mount much of a pass rush anymore, we're better off counting to 3 Mississippi and making a rule that the QB has to throw before that elapses. The pass rush is dying because of the rules, at least on the edges. If you aren't able to disrupt the pocket and the QB's timing in the A and B gaps yo are not stopping many offenses. Our weakness at DT is glaring and a penetrating 3 would go a long way in helping that. THe double on Donald is that he's a bullish run stopper too, despite the idiotic comments I"ve seen that he is moved easily. Simply not true.

I do however think Tuitt makes more sense, because even when blocked, that is 6-6 to throw over and around. We need either the size to disrupt the view/throwing lanes or the speed to penetrate and force the issue with the QB. Speed usually wins, but if you can keep it at bay it's neutralized. You can't neutralize 6-6.
Coach,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/30/2014 9:41 am : link
Quote:
....A. push the middle of the OL back to keep the QB from stepping up into the throw, and it also has the added benefit of cluttering up the curl zone so the Qb has to put more air under the ball. ...


I think that's what has killed Eli the past year and a half to two years, a paper interior of the OL. His "mobility" has always been the ability to step up into the pocket to avoid pressure. That has been virtually non-existent, forcing him to make hurried and forced throws.. Eli shit the bed on his own, but the turnstile up the middle has been a killer imv
Joey  
dorgan : 3/30/2014 9:44 am : link
spot on.
You can't coach 6'6".
I haven't seen Tuitt much either, but he's got the measureables if...and it's a big if, he uses them.

A big wingspan inside can work wonders for a stonewalled DT on a 3 step game.

I would think we'll take a big body in the first and maybe the second as well. OL or DL, it doesn't matter. I don't have a preference, but we do have a need for at least one of each.
What new passing rules are you speaking of?  
Jimmy Googs : 3/30/2014 9:44 am : link
In comment 11595233 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
The middle of the defense has become more important with the new passing rules. Teams won't have the time to mount much of a pass rush anymore, we're better off counting to 3 Mississippi and making a rule that the QB has to throw before that elapses. The pass rush is dying because of the rules, at least on the edges.


Did something just get passed by the NFL this off-season?
RE: RE: RE: Im still waiting for someone to explain in detail  
Boatie Warrant : 3/30/2014 9:45 am : link
In comment 11594910 Blue Blood said:
Quote:
In comment 11594886 Boatie Warrant said:


Quote:


In comment 11594860 Blue Blood said:


Quote:


how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...



It's not a matter of explaining how it would be better for him but how historically (except for one name, John Randle) no other DT has been successful(1st round talent successful) in the NFL at under 6'1" and below 290 lbs.




ok so basically you cant explain it.. check..

anyone else want to try..



wow, so the historical data that shows(in this case by lack of players his size) DT's at 6'1" 280ish lbs don't succeed isn't good enough? Only one NFL example of a DT his size in the last 14 years can be found. That doesn't make you stop and wonder why?
Fiddy  
dorgan : 3/30/2014 9:45 am : link
I agree.

A coach can do a lot of things to mask weaknesses, but you can't hide a weak middle for long. A weak middle is devastating on both sides of the ball.
Googs  
Joey in VA : 3/30/2014 9:55 am : link
I mean the evolution of the rules against DBs and the inability to hit a QB below the waist, bump into him late, and pretty much making holding a non issue. Guys are held relentlessly and obviously and it's just not enforced to keep QBs safe and points on the board and fantasy dopes happy.

DBs not in Seattle are pretty much not allowed to breathe a WR now for fear of being flagged, it's just neutering defenses and the teams that have it figured out and adjust are going to win.
Okay. Although much of what you said Joey would  
Jimmy Googs : 3/30/2014 10:08 am : link
affect a fast DT about as much as a DE. Its not that much further away from the the eventual target.

But I do agree that pressure up the middle on a QB is always a valuable commodity. If Donald can create that lateral movement quickly (from a QB) then it only makes JPP, Kiwi and Moore that much more valuable, which is sorely needed.

As you know the NFL adapts quickly, so teams will eventually shut a "Donald-type" down and then it is clearly up to a JPP to dominate.

81GD  
JonC : 3/30/2014 10:20 am : link
strong post.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Im still waiting for someone to explain in detail  
Blue Blood : 3/30/2014 10:44 am : link
In comment 11595249 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
In comment 11594910 Blue Blood said:


Quote:


In comment 11594886 Boatie Warrant said:


Quote:


In comment 11594860 Blue Blood said:


Quote:


how 15-20 lbs added to his body spread over his entire frame makes him a better player...



It's not a matter of explaining how it would be better for him but how historically (except for one name, John Randle) no other DT has been successful(1st round talent successful) in the NFL at under 6'1" and below 290 lbs.




ok so basically you cant explain it.. check..

anyone else want to try..




wow, so the historical data that shows(in this case by lack of players his size) DT's at 6'1" 280ish lbs don't succeed isn't good enough? Only one NFL example of a DT his size in the last 14 years can be found. That doesn't make you stop and wonder why?


The height issue I can comprehend.. Im not stupid..

The fact is what I cannot comprehend is the weight issue.. he is 285... which means he is 15lbs from being 300lbs..

I would like someone who keep pointing out this fact to explain to me how 15 lbs spread over he entire frame would make him a better player.. dont tell me what teams havent done over 14 years..

because I can sit here and name players that were too small.. too big.. not fast enough.. etc etc that went on to be GREAT Nfl players.. not good.. GREAT..

Again the height issue I can clearly understand.. but explain the whole.. oh he doesnt weight 300 lbs.. he only weighs 285... how does 15 lbs make him BETTER....

15lbs can certainly matter  
Joey in VA : 3/30/2014 11:07 am : link
It's not just more weight, it's where it's from. If he was 300lbs, chances are he's naturally bigger overall, more stout and more size is good obviously. You're talking the physics of movement here, a 300lb guys is tougher to move than 285, now extrapolate that over an entire game. It's a lot more work over the course of a game to battle 300 vs 285. It's not a really tough thing to grasp.
You can bet that Donald will say he needs  
Jimmy Googs : 3/30/2014 11:11 am : link
to gain some weight after he finishes his first season in the NFL.




Good thread  
ChicagoMarty : 3/30/2014 11:23 am : link
I have mixed feelings on Donald
On the one hand it would be a terrific plus to have a quick fast penetrating DT to go sideline to sideline with rbs and mobile qbs

But what happens if/when Donald sprains an ankle or suffers some other leg malady that takes away his quick/fastness?

Now you are left with an undersized DT who can neither penetrate/chase sideline to sideline nor hold the point of attack

I think JR takes a big body run stuffer DT in the. Fifth or. Sixth round eg Justin Ellis, shamar Stephen, Ryan carrethers or Deandre Coleman

Jints should strongly consider trading down to 14 with Da Bears who crave Donald and obtain a fourth round draft choice while still taking Zach Martin with their first rounder to further bolster their OL which needs more bolster

They could then select Bryan Stork C with Da Bears fourth rounder and a DE with their own fourth rounder and Voila the OL and DL have been restocked while leaving their second and third round choices available to draft a TE and WR in the best rounds for selection of those positions IMO
ChicagoM  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 12:02 pm : link
We did have a 268 lb converted LB playing a hybrid DT role for us a number of years (and he was quite good at it for a while too).

Donald is more stout and powerful as 285 is quite solid for his height.
How big was Tommy  
AnishPatel : 3/30/2014 12:15 pm : link
Harris DT Bears when he was in the league?
RE: The Giants won their  
AnishPatel : 3/30/2014 12:17 pm : link
In comment 11594804 mrvax said:
Quote:
last 2 Superbowls due to a terrific pass rush.


And an offensive line that could keep Eli from getting sacked. We suck now. We don't have Rbs , a TE or an X, which we had in 2 SBs.
I've never had a real favorite "must draft" before  
mrvax : 3/30/2014 12:20 pm : link
and I remember SHM at BBIers who wanted so & so very bad. I knew they wouldn't be drafted by the Giants.

This year I am crazy as those BBIers in other years. I really want to draft Donald.

PaulN: If the Giants get the chance and do not pick Donald, I really won't get pissed off. I'll just follow his career and see if I was right or not. I trust the Giants decisions over mine.

What would piss me off is another team trading up and snatching Donald before our pick.
Harris was a legit 300 pounder  
ChicagoMarty : 3/30/2014 12:24 pm : link
But he suffered one leg injury too many

Dots are right in the middle of the maelstrom

They get blocked from every angle

Often double teamed and

Something they have no control over are the big bodies landing on them in the big pile ups in the middle of the Los

TC has always expressed a preference for big bodies to dominate the LOS

I expect that is the way JR goes in this draft particularly in light of the fact that they can be had in the later rounds leaving the early rounds to adress much bigger needs
RE: What about Marvin Austin, Cullen Jenkins and Mike Patterson  
buljos : 3/30/2014 12:48 pm : link
In comment 11594432 chris r said:
Quote:
?


Exactly! Mike Patterson's the same size as Donald, and JR didn't have a problem picking him up in FA. Now that you've made this quality assessment based on the height metric, how about looking at another metric... combine 40 times. Any lineman run in the 4.68 range? No... not close. Any Giant lineman lead the nation in tackles for a loss and sacks per down played? No... not close. Donald is a phenomenal talent and athletic freak who with Jenkins, JPP and D'Moore on passing downs, with that revitalized secondary, could double last season's sack totals. Discussions of Donald's height as a disqualifier when the Giants had Mike Patterson last season don't make much sense.
RE: RE: What about Marvin Austin, Cullen Jenkins and Mike Patterson  
mrvax : 3/30/2014 1:14 pm : link
In comment 11595457 buljos said:
Quote:
Discussions of Donald's height as a disqualifier when the Giants had Mike Patterson last season don't make much sense.


But but but...Patterson was a full 6'1" and Donald is just shy of 6'1". AND Patterson weighed a full 15 lbs more.
Warren Sapp weighed less then Donald before the 1995 Draft  
geelabee : 3/30/2014 2:07 pm : link
At the time he was drafted in 1995 Sapp weighed 284 lbs versus 288 at the Combine for Donald....What people neglect is that in 1-2 years of a good NFL offseason lifting program Donald will add another 15-20lbs of muscle and if the Giants are smart and draft this once in a decade DT...the get a player the same size as Sapp that is stronger, better measurables Sapp only ran a 4.82, and Donald has a far better tape...Sapp played at the U while Donald is doing it by himself against double and triple teams and still dominating
Warren Sapp Was A Possible No. 2 Pick. His Stock Fell Because of Failed Drug Test - ( New Window )
My concerns are not just height  
Boatie Warrant : 3/30/2014 3:05 pm : link
It is his height and weight together that make me stop and pause.

There are several 6'1" DT but none are 280 something pounds. There are several 280 lb DT but they are all 6'2" and above.

I'm not saying Donald wasn't really good in college. I'm not saying the Giants should not pick him. I'm saying it is cause for pause when only one other player in the past 14 years(that I can find) has the same height/weight ratio at the DT position.

John Randle is the only example that has been brought up. Sapp was 6'2"

As for what does 15-20 pounds do for a guy at DT? Well it does something because 6'2" 300 lbs or more is what most great DT's measure at in todays NFL. I would say it makes it harder for the guy to be pushed around at the very least.
RE: I've never had a real favorite  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 3:51 pm : link
In comment 11595430 mrvax said:
Quote:
and I remember SHM at BBIers who wanted so & so very bad. I knew they wouldn't be drafted by the Giants.

This year I am crazy as those BBIers in other years. I really want to draft Donald.

PaulN: If the Giants get the chance and do not pick Donald, I really won't get pissed off. I'll just follow his career and see if I was right or not. I trust the Giants decisions over mine.

What would piss me off is another team trading up and snatching Donald before our pick.


The funniest part about this if you just looked at his numbers in college out of a major program most everyone would be thinking he should be a top pick in the entire draft on that ALONE. How many DTs do you know in the HISTORY of division 1 college football have overall production like this kid had in his last 3 years at Pitt?

Suhs overall numbers? Not as good.
Sapps overall numbers? Not as good.
Geno Atkins numbers? Not as good.
Gerald McCoys numbers? Not as good.

So then you say nah his size will still be an issue. Lets see what else he can prove. So he goes out dominates in every single practice in the Senior Bowl dominates the Senior Bowl game itself and THEN follows .it up with a freakish combine!

Remember when Suggs on tape looked like an absolute monster? Why did he drop a bit? For him it was an pretty bad 40 time. Sometimes the tape is so darn good you have to ignore 1 or 2 measurables that may not be perfect. Bottomline, this game is played on the football field. Not on a scale. Has the kid dominated in live action, against all kinds of competition with great consistency? The answer is a resounding YES.


RE: RE: I've never had a real favorite  
Boatie Warrant : 3/30/2014 4:33 pm : link
In comment 11595675 GmenDynasty said:
Quote:
In comment 11595430 mrvax said:


Quote:


and I remember SHM at BBIers who wanted so & so very bad. I knew they wouldn't be drafted by the Giants.

This year I am crazy as those BBIers in other years. I really want to draft Donald.

PaulN: If the Giants get the chance and do not pick Donald, I really won't get pissed off. I'll just follow his career and see if I was right or not. I trust the Giants decisions over mine.

What would piss me off is another team trading up and snatching Donald before our pick.



The funniest part about this if you just looked at his numbers in college out of a major program most everyone would be thinking he should be a top pick in the entire draft on that ALONE. How many DTs do you know in the HISTORY of division 1 college football have overall production like this kid had in his last 3 years at Pitt?

Suhs overall numbers? Not as good.
Sapps overall numbers? Not as good.
Geno Atkins numbers? Not as good.
Gerald McCoys numbers? Not as good.

So then you say nah his size will still be an issue. Lets see what else he can prove. So he goes out dominates in every single practice in the Senior Bowl dominates the Senior Bowl game itself and THEN follows .it up with a freakish combine!

Remember when Suggs on tape looked like an absolute monster? Why did he drop a bit? For him it was an pretty bad 40 time. Sometimes the tape is so darn good you have to ignore 1 or 2 measurables that may not be perfect. Bottomline, this game is played on the football field. Not on a scale. Has the kid dominated in live action, against all kinds of competition with great consistency? The answer is a resounding YES.



So players who Dominate in college never become busts?

I keep saying the same thing, His height/weight ratio for his position at least requires extra attention(review of what he has done, against who and was it sustainable throughout the game) when deciding to pick him or not. Will he hold up? I don't know
Dan in the springs did an exhaustive breakdown  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 4:54 pm : link
Of supposedly his weakest game vs some future NFL prospects. Read up on it.
GmenDynasty  
Boatie Warrant : 3/30/2014 5:28 pm : link
I have seen the tape on this kid and I am very impressed. I would love having a disruptive high motor DT that was to be game planned for. I would love for us to have a guy that can chase RB's and QB's down in the backfield as I said in an earlier post. I would love for people to fear our defense again.

All that said, it does not change that extra looks need to be done by our scouts because he does not fit the normal mold (historically, in the current NFL) of a DT. Best way to do that is to nit pick the hell out of his technique and endurance. In the end if what they find still tells them he is what he seems to be then they will have no choice but to pick him at #12.

I can only hope that whoever they pick at #12 becomes a beast for us because we really need one. We need players with Nasty on the field.
Donald  
Marty866b : 3/30/2014 5:43 pm : link
Has more tackles for losses and sacks then the next three OR more of the top prospects in this draft ALL combined. He has played against top competition and has excelled. He will be a force in the NFL. No one has his speed and quickness inside.
RE: Donald  
Boatie Warrant : 3/30/2014 5:52 pm : link
In comment 11595888 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Has more tackles for losses and sacks then the next three OR more of the top prospects in this draft ALL combined. He has played against top competition and has excelled. He will be a force in the NFL. No one has his speed and quickness inside.


Marty, I have really liked several defensive players before the draft in the past. All of who looked NFL ready and crushed it in college. Some did crap in the NFL some did very well, most did ok. With Donald for me it is a once bitten twice shy type deal. Watching him tackle reminds me of LT because of how he pursues and pops when he hits. (I can only dream)

So for me, I don't want to get super excited for a player we don't have yet(especially if he goes to Dallas(see DeMarcus Ware)). I also don't want to get super excited for a kid who has not taken one NFL snap.
RE: RE: Donald  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 6:20 pm : link
In comment 11595911 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
In comment 11595888 Marty866b said:


Quote:


Has more tackles for losses and sacks then the next three OR more of the top prospects in this draft ALL combined. He has played against top competition and has excelled. He will be a force in the NFL. No one has his speed and quickness inside.



Marty, I have really liked several defensive players before the draft in the past. All of who looked NFL ready and crushed it in college. Some did crap in the NFL some did very well, most did ok. With Donald for me it is a once bitten twice shy type deal. Watching him tackle reminds me of LT because of how he pursues and pops when he hits. (I can only dream)

So for me, I don't want to get super excited for a player we don't have yet(especially if he goes to Dallas(see DeMarcus Ware)). I also don't want to get super excited for a kid who has not taken one NFL snap.


Your tune is changing markedly lol
Personally I don't think Joe Morris and Dave Megget  
BlueLou : 3/30/2014 6:32 pm : link
were tall enough to be Giants, either, and am removing their accomplishments from all historical Giants' records.



We are giving back the Lombardys from XXI and XV.
RE: RE: RE: Donald  
Boatie Warrant : 3/30/2014 7:57 pm : link
In comment 11595970 GmenDynasty said:
Quote:
In comment 11595911 Boatie Warrant said:


Quote:


In comment 11595888 Marty866b said:


Quote:


Has more tackles for losses and sacks then the next three OR more of the top prospects in this draft ALL combined. He has played against top competition and has excelled. He will be a force in the NFL. No one has his speed and quickness inside.



Marty, I have really liked several defensive players before the draft in the past. All of who looked NFL ready and crushed it in college. Some did crap in the NFL some did very well, most did ok. With Donald for me it is a once bitten twice shy type deal. Watching him tackle reminds me of LT because of how he pursues and pops when he hits. (I can only dream)

So for me, I don't want to get super excited for a player we don't have yet(especially if he goes to Dallas(see DeMarcus Ware)). I also don't want to get super excited for a kid who has not taken one NFL snap.



Your tune is changing markedly lol


My tune has been the same from the beginning. I have never said I didn't like Donald. All my comments and questions were directly about DT's his size(height and weight). I just never addressed How I felt about his play until the last two posts.
RE: Personally I don't think Joe Morris and Dave Megget  
Boatie Warrant : 3/30/2014 8:01 pm : link
In comment 11596005 BlueLou said:
Quote:
were tall enough to be Giants, either, and am removing their accomplishments from all historical Giants' records.



We are giving back the Lombardys from XXI and XV.


Ah yes, there is the typical nonsense.
I can understand the concern about Donald  
mrvax : 3/30/2014 8:17 pm : link
if it weren't for his size, he'd be ahead of Clowney based on performance.

If you think he's going to get pushed around, take the time to review his snaps. Find something wrong, post it here.

I don't expect he'll destroy the NFL as he did with the college teams right away but he'd be a fantastic player; a game changer.
mrvax  
Marty866b : 3/30/2014 8:48 pm : link
You're right. If you are drafting on productivity, Donald is the #1 player in this entire draft. Unfortunately, the NFL has certain measurables in which Donald lacks(height). I believe this is a very rare player who doesn't come around too often and he will excel in any league. He looks unblockable at times on tape. He's worth the risk IMO.
I love Donald  
Nick from Goa : 3/30/2014 8:55 pm : link
but he doesn't fit the Giants criteria. for better or worse
What worries me about Donald  
ghost718 : 3/30/2014 9:00 pm : link
is not really his height,some of the strongest defensive tackles you will see are between 6'1" and 6'2". It's the fact that he's so light on his feet,almost too light for a tackle.

I worry about injuries with this guy.
He's not the droid you're looking for  
Nick from Goa : 3/30/2014 9:22 pm : link
.
He's going to get heavier  
Giants2012 : 3/30/2014 9:41 pm : link
so I wouldn't be concerned with the weight. Warren Sapp was barely 6'2 and went from 300lbs to 330lbs later. The kid has a low center of gravity which can be better than a guy who is simply taller.
RE: What worries me about Donald  
GmenDynasty : 3/30/2014 9:52 pm : link
In comment 11596361 ghost718 said:
Quote:
is not really his height,some of the strongest defensive tackles you will see are between 6'1" and 6'2". It's the fact that he's so light on his feet,almost too light for a tackle.

I worry about injuries with this guy.


How injury prone was he in college? Not that that gaurantees anything but it is an indicator.
If he's that small,  
oldog : 3/31/2014 9:47 am : link
his arms are probably too short too.
donald  
jintz4life : 3/31/2014 9:52 am : link
is really really good
Link - ( New Window )
Back to the Corner