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Falling Barr

rvwnk : 4/1/2014 5:58 pm
Dion Jordan's embarrassing unimpressive first year with the Dolphins might worry a few critical NFL GMs with early draft picks in the upcoming draft. Could it possibly persuade them to pass on Anthony Barr for a safer draft pick? (Dolphin's burned the 12th and the 42nd picks last year, to get up to the number 3 draft pick. Then Dion Jordan showed them very little in return.

The Dolphin's recent pain at a pass rushing position, just might increase the chances that "Barr" falls to us at 12. Since improving the Giant's ability to rush the quarterback is our most important goal from the upcoming draft, finding a strong pass rusher needs to happen. Yes having a stronger secondary is a good first step. But until the Giants "beef up" our s 2014 pass rush, our defense without Tuck, is in jeopardy. Finding a very promising draft prospect capable of making meaningful sack contributions in his first year is a very difficult task, (Unless Damonster makes dramatic improvements this coming year.)

Is anyone else hoping we can find a way to get Anthony Barr as our first pick? If not, can you alternatively suggest a what defensive draft pick will be able to make a contribution to the Giant's sack total this year.
And how exactly do you know this?  
BlueLou : 4/1/2014 6:01 pm : link
Quote:
Since improving the Giant's ability to rush the quarterback is our most important goal from the upcoming draft, finding a strong pass rusher needs to happen.
I  
AcidTest : 4/1/2014 6:08 pm : link
think Tennessee takes Barr at #11, since they are switching to a 3-4 IIRC. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Jerry take Barr if he's there. I think Barr is probably behind Ebron and Evans, but if they are gone, he might well be the pick. I think Jerry would take Barr before Donald.
i dont see the Giants drafting Barr  
Blue Blood : 4/1/2014 6:32 pm : link
i dont think he reaches the Giants and I dont see Fewell utilizing him well as a LB.. Unless you are going to put his hand in the dirt and play him as a DE.. i dont know if he fits the Giants.. Ultimately he could be a Von Miller type but Miller was a MUCH better LB in college..
Barr has a stouter frame than Jordan  
Torrag : 4/1/2014 6:37 pm : link
He got some PT at DE this year when the Bruins had some D-line injuries...for me it opened my eyes to the possibility his future could be at DE with his hand in the ground...he's bigger than Jason Taylor when he came out...same goes for Trent Cole...upside is huge and pass rush is a priority in this draft.
If you are thinking DE I can see that  
Blue Blood : 4/1/2014 6:41 pm : link
or the Giants might try that joker option again..
Barr  
stretch234 : 4/1/2014 6:42 pm : link
The problem with him and the Giants is where does he play. He is not a 4-3 outside LB. He also has never played with his hand down. He has been exclusively a 3-4 rush LB

If the Giants draft him it becomes nothing more than a project at DE. Is that what you want with the 12th pick
Barr  
AcidTest : 4/1/2014 6:42 pm : link
is 6'5" and 255. An NFL weight training program could easily add ten to fifteen pounds of muscle to his frame. That would make him strong and stout enough in all likelihood to stand up against the run as a full time DE. He's got the kind of crazy length the Jerry loves, and could have a lot of upside.

I still think he's behind Ebron and Evans, but wouldn't be surprised by the pick. I wouldn't take him because he's a "project," and we need to stay away from those types of players this year until late on day three IMO. But he's a pass rusher with potentially large upside, and that is the MO of this team. Jerry took a similar risk with JPP, and may be emboldened by that pick to do it again.
not to mention that JPP is coming of injury  
Blue Blood : 4/1/2014 6:45 pm : link
and is a FA next year.. hmm maybe I need to look closer at Barr..
Osi was  
TommyWiseau : 4/1/2014 6:48 pm : link
Playing at 250 here and Strahan the last few years was around 255. Barr can add 10 pounds and still maintain his speed. He has a shitload of talent, might need to get creative in using him but isn't that was Fewell is getting paid for?
I think they go DT in the first before they go DE  
Blue21 : 4/1/2014 6:50 pm : link
and I'm not even sure of that.
I was mocked and called names  
BarbieCarpenter : 4/1/2014 6:53 pm : link
for suggesting we could draft Barr and have him stand up and rush the passer in the occasional 3-3-5 set. What people don't get is that 3rd LB can line up anywhere. He could rush the A gap, put his hand in the dirt at DE, drop from a traditional OLB spot, or just stand up and pressure the edge effectively acting as a 4-3. The point with the 3-3-5 set is he's more LB than DE because he lines up everywhere. Throw in some big bodies in the secondary and boom you have a versatile defense that can play all three downs with Barr.

People need to get over the 3-4 vs 4-3 thing.
The selection of Jordan 3rd overall was idiotic  
SB : 4/1/2014 6:54 pm : link
.
Barr  
stretch234 : 4/1/2014 7:09 pm : link
If you are going to take him to add weight and teach him to be a DE why not just draft Ealy - who is already bigger and has played DE
They only take Barr  
BillT : 4/1/2014 7:23 pm : link
If they're confident he can play DE.
Barr is a much more violent player  
Sy'56 : 4/1/2014 7:27 pm : link
Than Jordan was in college. And this is coming from someone who really liked Jordan. Still think his best spot is in a 4-3 scheme (Jordan)
Ealy  
PaulN : 4/1/2014 8:24 pm : link
Is not a good pass rusher, Barr is. The question is this, could he actually play as our WILL and the Giants use him to rush the passer from a stand up position, they could move him around the line of scrimmage, he could line up outside our defensive end, or do you just bulk him up and use him on the line of scrimmage. He is a very intriguing player. But I am not certain he would fit, or that Fewell could fit him into his system.
Lets  
blue42 : 4/1/2014 8:36 pm : link
hope the Titans take Barr.
blue42 ...  
Torrag : 4/1/2014 8:40 pm : link
lets not.
Barr  
stretch234 : 4/1/2014 8:48 pm : link
What players have been bulked up to move to the DL in the NFL. It goes the opposite way - down in college, up in pros.

He weighed the same as Osi later in his career - Osi was a hand in the dirt DE coming out of college. Strahan played most of his career at 275. Tuck was a 270lb player

If you get him as an outside 4-3 LB he has zero coverage ability. So he becomes a project as either a DE or a 4-3 LB. That is not what you pick at 12 - hopefully someone else does
stretch  
Torrag : 4/1/2014 8:50 pm : link
it can go both ways do your homework...
I wouldn't care  
Bill in TN : 4/1/2014 9:01 pm : link
how much he weighs or if he plays 4-3 DE or LB - if he can give us 12-15 sacks. He can rush the passer. More better, IMO, than donald or that idiot Ebron.
Giants don't run a 3 / 4 defense so why would they gamble the #12  
xman : 4/1/2014 9:10 pm : link
on a project? If we drafted much lower and he was on the board maybe you take that gamble because the elite talent vanished. But at the #12 slot you better take the sure thing and don't screw around with a project.
Torrag  
stretch234 : 4/1/2014 9:12 pm : link
Who are these players.

I am going through teams and not seeing any. Even Bruce Irvin was moved back to LB
Xman . . .  
Bill in TN : 4/1/2014 9:17 pm : link
Then take Z. Martin or Brandon Cooks at 12 - the will be there and they are sure things.
Have you read the thread  
Torrag : 4/1/2014 9:33 pm : link
I already pointed to a couple examples...Jason Taylor and Trent Cole both played OLB in college at much lighter weight. If you have the frame and strength and violent hands necessary then putting your hand in the dirt is actually an easier transition than learning to cover and play in space. You set the edge and play going forward. IMO Barr at 6'5/255# can get in the 270# range to play DE and holdup...can Irvin do the same? Not so sure.

Every prospect has warts...any guy you name I can pick apart at some level. Evans is linear. Donald is undersized. Clowney outplayed Lewan. Martin is a better OG prospect than OT. Ebron doesn't block and has a high drop %. Etc. etc. etc.

Barr is a tough, athletic football player with the 2nd best pass rush ability in this draft and a lot of upside. I could see JR picking him if he's still available.
RE: Xman . . .  
Modus Operandi : 4/1/2014 9:49 pm : link
In comment 11599699 Bill in TN said:
Quote:
Then take Z. Martin or Brandon Cooks at 12 - the will be there and they are sure things.


If Brandin Cooks were a sure thing, dont you think he'd go a lot higher than what he's projected?
Barr  
Dragon : 4/1/2014 10:00 pm : link
Can play DE or LB it's not like he does not have the tools to do it the question is will he be there at 12. BPA with Lewan, Ebron, Evans and Donald is Barr plus OLB is a major weakness for us.
I have been sayi this for weeks  
Rjanyg : 4/1/2014 10:24 pm : link
Barr has the frame, 6'5", 255 to play DE now. He could put on 10 lbs. rather quickly. Let's also understand his ceiling is very high, only playing defense for the last 2 years. Major production with 23.5 sacks, 5 more than Dee Ford who played DE for 4 years. I hope he lasts for pick 12. Dude's got what you can't teach.
Bruce Irvin  
TommyWiseau : 4/1/2014 11:07 pm : link
was/is 6'3 245 lbs not 6'5 255 lbs. If you look at Barr's frame, he has plenty of room to add some bulk. He's going to be a good one for someone
Too big a risk  
Marty866b : 4/1/2014 11:12 pm : link
Barr right now is a 3-4 outside linebacker. he is a converted running back and though he has been very productive, he is inexperienced at that position. Would the Giants pick him as a defensive end since he has NEVER played with his hand down. Way too big a risk for my liking. The fit is not right for the Giants here.
Must think Pass Rusher when looking at Barr  
Rjanyg : 4/1/2014 11:13 pm : link
Not just OLB or DE. Jerry went after Obrien Schofield pretty early in free agency and as we know he failed his physical. 2 years 8 mill for a player with pass rush skills but is more a tweener. Also, imagine 3rd down, NASCAR package or 4 aces, JPP, Kiwi, Damonster and Barr. Not bad huh?
I will make this argument.. and I am not pro Barr  
Blue Blood : 4/1/2014 11:17 pm : link
Von Miller.. why would you take Von Miller who is best suited as a 3-4 OLB and play him in a 4-3 in Denver.. that seems to have worked out JUST fine for Denver..
Blue Blood  
Rjanyg : 4/1/2014 11:21 pm : link
Thats a good point. In reality, Barr could play LB on downs 1 & 2 and Rush End on 3. Plus you could line him up anywhere. So much versatility and talent.
Barr has giants love written all over him  
djm : 4/1/2014 11:46 pm : link
I'd be shocked if we learned NYG didn't like Barr. He's long and possesses high end pass rush skills. They have been looking for this kind of player for years. I'd be shocked if Barr even makes it to 12 and even more shocked if the giants passed on him.
Impressiv Player  
Emil : 4/2/2014 5:00 am : link
But don't see him fitting in the Giants scheme. Not full time at least
Given the love  
old man : 4/2/2014 11:53 am : link
and ranking BBIers have for Barr in this draft, is it possible that his negative qualities slide him down to #43?
Asked in a different way, what teams would have him as a priority player need for him in rd 1, early round 2?
We've had great success drafting tweeners or switchintg guys positions  
SB : 4/2/2014 12:40 pm : link
...so I'd expect this would work swimingly.
There is virtually no chance Barr gets out of the Top 25 imo  
raever : 4/2/2014 12:40 pm : link
none.
Draft Coutndown has Barr ranked number 4 overall  
Rjanyg : 4/2/2014 12:50 pm : link
ahead of Mack and just behind Clowney. Look at Clowneys stats the last 2 seasons and look at Barrs. Take a look at the youtube videos as well. These players are very similar.
Draft Countdown must be on drugs  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/2/2014 3:21 pm : link
I have watched tape of Barr, and I see very little to like for the Giants system. We do not want a project for our first pick. In fact, I do not want any projects in this draft. There are too many good players who are ready to step in at appropriate positions. I have watched tape of Mack vs Ohio State. Any comparison with Barr seems silly to me. Mack is far superior. I have watched tape of Clowney. His motivation may be in question, but when he wants to play, he throws guys around like rag dolls. Barr is made for a 3-4 D, not a 4-3. If we draft him in the first round, we've made a huge mistake, IMHO. I will hope that I am wrong, but I don't see it.
We do not want a project  
rvwnk : 4/3/2014 8:19 am : link
Michael Strahan, Osi, JPP

It doesn't appear that we would win even one of our two recent Super Balls, without help from those three pass rushers. Are willing to throw them all back, because they were risky picks, despite those consequences?
Look...i don't know about picking Barr but no friggin' way  
Jimmy Googs : 4/3/2014 8:33 am : link
we are giving back any of those Super Balls.
Project  
rvwnk : 4/3/2014 8:45 am : link
The Giants have been remarkably adept at drafting pass rushers, without sufficient experience against quality competition to make them sure things.

What looks highly complicated and risky to you and me, is pretty straight forward to them. They probably know what talents are essential to making a pass rusher successful and they follow their formula.

I think that if they are 3 for 3 n pass rushers then knowing that they could lose their jobs if they miss on the 12th draft pick of the 2014 draft, I like the chances of of them being successful a 4th time.
If you really want a pass rusher  
mrvax : 4/3/2014 10:36 am : link
maybe consider one of the best in the draft? Aaron Donald would make our Dline crazy good.
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