Positioning for a trade up?

considering the universal sentiment this is a very rich and deep draft. giving away picks seems unwise. With that said, I'm sure some teams will, and while I'd rather move back and gain extra picks, that means someone must want to move up, so it's possible the Giants could be one of those teams.

In the end that all falls to scouting and the staff. If they believe a guy like Robinson or Matthews or Watkins is a can't miss guy that fits us perfectly, than it's probably not a bad move. I'd rather not though, from my novice perspective...

Sammy Watkins. I realize that this is a deep drat for WR but he is so much better than everyone else. I really do see AJ Green.

1) Phase 1 of FA was focused on team building with the players who got multi-year contracts. That really is Jennings, Schwartz, Walton and DRC. So only 4 starters added.
2) The rest of the FA's are on 1 yr deals I believe. Patterson, Thurmond, Brown, Manningham, Jerry, Bowman. These players aren't about team building. They are filling holes.

The Giants need a strong draft 1-4 of starters for the future, I don't think they can afford to trade up.

I think that this class, this depth . . . we could/take resources for next year and boost them ahead to effect this push.

Obviously they are regrouping, making a late push for Coughlin/Manning.

We don't know the quality of next year will be like the quality of this year. Bundle a pick or two to get into the late 1st, early 2nd with another pick.

Next year, we have more cap space (players to sign, yes, but more maneuverability)

That could get you a guard / te even wr not named Evans/Watkins in addition to what we already have

Our off season to date has been quite un-Giant like. We don't usually sign so many FA's. I applaud the moves.

We don't usually, but we had no choice....look at all the free agents this team had....we signed/re-signed a lot of players.....but how many would you consider real "playahs"?

That tipped pass by the Detroit TE cost us a top 10 pick.....playing 4 teams in a row without a qb, cost us an even higher pick....this was not a 7 win team last year....it was only a 7 win team in the win/loss column....

Charlie Casserly said he things the Giants should trade up for Lewan. He says he thinks if Beatty starts at LT again, Eli will struggle again. He thought they should get Lewan, put him at LT, move Beatty to RT, and Pugh inside, and the Giants are set for years on their OL.

BTW, I don't think they should trade up, but I also think Beatty needs to move over to RT.

Clowney and that's still too expensive.

would not be shocked *at all* if we at least try to move up for Clowney - the feeling is the cost to trade up is low due to the depth of draft

similar to 04 when we were "in striking distance" of Eli, it was a good year to be bad. clowney is a once in a generation prospect and we happen to collect freakish 4-3 DE's.

We didn't want Tuck back. We were gonna cut Kiwi. We gave Schofield an eye-popping contract.

Perhaps we are in the "Clowney business". The new-look D would be complete and if Clowney is as advertised we could be up there with SEA and SF.

to trade down for more picks if a willing partner could be found.

and I don't see a blue chipper we'd burn extra assets moving up for. If anything, I'd consider moving down a few slots in exchange for an extra #2.

We need all our draft choices especially this year when we are drafting early. The FA signings are short term additions, for the most part, to cover up poor drafting in the past five years. We need new blood and a good draft this year to get back on track.

It's more a function of the salary cap. The Giants always utilize their full financial resources.

They weren't satisfied with many of their middle and bottom of the roster guys. Poor performance, age and injury history were factors in most of the guys that moved on. Younger, productive and healthier players were signed to replace them.

The primary effect on the draft is the increased flexibility it gives JR to select the best talent available with less emphasis on position.

You all bring up very good points. Part of the reason I began this thread is I'm not in love with the players projected to be on the board with our pick. I don't like Ebron, the 3 tackles may be gone, Evans may be there but he's not a sure-fire starter, I like Donald but will he succeed in the NFL like he did in college, I like Martin but at a lower pick, etc.
I am hoping one of the QB's is there at 12 and we can trade down but that's draft day gamble. In lieu of that trading up can be more certain.

A player with all the measurables in the world only had 3 sacks last year. Major red flags about the guys motor, and heart and how motivated would he be after signing a big fat contract? Rather move up slightly or stay pat and take Donald and will come to the Giants and continue doing what many of us have seen on his tapes and will go to multiple pro bowls.

In comment 11600316 JonC said:

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and I don't see a blue chipper we'd burn extra assets moving up for. If anything, I'd consider moving down a few slots in exchange for an extra #2.

I agree. Even at #12, I don't see a "must have" player although Evans has become very intriguing the more I hear about him. If he isn't there, I too would like for the Giants to move down a few spots and pick up an additional pick.

We will either stay put, move up or move down. Maybe.

and has had deals ready to go, DHB, Maclin, Revis so its certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

I think the only players that Reese would be absolutely in love with that have both the production, athleticism AND upside which is huge component of it, would be Robinson, Clowney, and Watkins, maybe to a lesser extent Mack. All these players have the traits Jerry looks for at that positon and are positions he deeply values in the 1st round.

Clowney: Pass rusher, long, explosive, self explanatory

Robinson: JR loved Leonard Davis, think of a much more fluid athletic, higher upside, Leonard Davis with Robinson road grading skills.

Watkins: Best WR since Julio and AJ. We know how much Reese values WRs in the past and what better weapon to give Eli for the rest of his prime.

Striking distance would be in pick 7-8 range, as I don't see them coming up past then with the lofty price that would come along with it.

Though unlikely, if one of those players somehow fall, and are by far the best and last player in the first row, keep an eye on it.

I would pay whatever price is necessary to get him. In 1981 we got Taylor (and Ard and Hunt). Just getting Taylor was enough to change franchise for 10 years. If Clowney has a similar impact, I would do it.

In comment 11600311 area junc said:

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would not be shocked *at all* if we at least try to move up for Clowney - the feeling is the cost to trade up is low due to the depth of draft similar to 04 when we were "in striking distance" of Eli, .

We SHOULD be in striking distance yet our 3 win team won 7 games.

Its worth a trade up.

as possible.

They're not one player away. No trade-ups.

.

we had 29 FAs ourselves, most of whom were, meh: therefore, we were pretty much guarenteed to sign a lot of FAs.
Second: we have too many needs, in too many critical/questionable areas to be trading up for 1 top player.
Third, we are drafting at #12 in a deep draft, that is filled with talent at about 1/2 our need areas,and are likely to get day1/day9 starters at 12 and 43(hopefully also 74).
So I don't see a trade up happening at 12;however, depending on the appearance on May 8 or 9 of NEXT years draft, by position, I do like the idea of using a high (2nd/3rd rd.)2015 pick in THIS draft at 43 or 74, especially 43, to get 'our guy', if they are really excited about a player who also is now within reach. 2 guys that are definetly 'plug and plays' in the top 32-35 or so, in this draft, would be great. This all said,much has to happen for all those things to line up.
Given the Giants history of playing the hand dealt and living with the results,I see a stand pat drafting.
But as I said on another thread yesterday and at other times, this seems like a draft that will have a lot of movement at 1-11, especially if a couple of teams go'off course' and make unexpected position/player picks, such that #12 will be a hot spot for the over pick#18 teams to want to make a move UP to get their 'one missing piece'.

We should get a really strong, foundation piece talent at #12. If they're on the clock and all targets are gone, I'd look for an acceptable trade down as well. An extra #2 in this draft would be a boon, provided they go Sintim on us.


In comment 11600356 RC02XX said:

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In comment 11600316 JonC said: Quote: and I don't see a blue chipper we'd burn extra assets moving up for. If anything, I'd consider moving down a few slots in exchange for an extra #2. I agree. Even at #12, I don't see a "must have" player although Evans has become very intriguing the more I hear about him. If he isn't there, I too would like for the Giants to move down a few spots and pick up an additional pick.

down, not up. Of course, that's what almost everybody will want to do in this deep draft. But we might have a chance to do so if one of the QBs drops to us, or a team like SF wants to trade up to get a player. They have a lot of picks, and also have to find room for Lattimore and Carradine this year.

lining up opposite JPP would be incredible.

In comment 11600369 stanlev said:

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I would pay whatever price is necessary to get him. In 1981 we got Taylor (and Ard and Hunt). Just getting Taylor was enough to change franchise for 10 years. If Clowney has a similar impact, I would do it.

Clowney is not LT. Not close.

If the giants moved up to get one of

Robinson mack matthews clowney or watkins


If they do move up i hope its for watkins or clowney

.

In comment 11600426 JonC said:

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.

Jon...yeah, I laughed at the typo. What a wasted pick that turned out to be...:(

And don't even think about it. They talk about freak athletes all the time, but by every measure he is a once in a generation type specimen. You don't see a 6'-6" guy, run a 4.5 and the funny thing was, he looked like he could run it faster. He still not as strong as he can be and he has great pass rush moves. His 2012 season sealed the deal. 2013, he took off, but he was NFL ready probably since high school.

Again, for those who would poo-poo this, did you disagree with drafting ELi and giving up picks? Would any have questioned the Giants moving up and getting Lawrence Taylor. Guys like these get you SuperBowls. You get Clowney on this defense with the secondary we have, and JPP on the otherside and you can pencil the Giants in for a deep run in the playoffs. NFC East division champs at minimum this year, Super Bowl assured if JPP and Clowney are healthy, down the road, if not this season.

I have said this before, Clowney at worst would be a DeMarcus Ware/Mario Williams type player. At best, there really won't be a comparision besides L.T.

I would stand up and applaud if the Giants moved up and got Clowney. If Reese did that, this would be his finest off-season, no matter how it turns out. Reese would have done all that he could to bring the Giants back to relevance.

they are not trading away picks this year and next year to get ONE player..

They will stand pat at 12 or make a slight trade down

(I think the Jets are a good target especially if there is a CB like Gilbert or Denard there.. you could get an additional second out of them)

We are heading into the draft with very few missing parts. TE is the most obvious need but we have little proof that the Giants absolutely love Ebron and if he will last to pick 12 anyway. We have signed 4 Oline and 2 WR ( Manningham and Holiday ) so they have bodies at the very least. If a special player is sitting a couple of spots before our pick depending on how many QB's are picked in the top 10, I can see Reese making a move. I just hope it won't include our 2nd round pick. I could live with giving up a third to move up 2 spots if they could get Mack, Robinson, Matthews or Watkins.

I still would be happy with Martin. Is he truely worth a 12, maybe a few picks shy but I think he'll be even better then Pugh which translates into a versatile 10 year starter.

The O-line needs another young guy. Doesn't need to be in RD1, but should be before day 3.

a couple of weeks ago, and I've definitely warmed up to the idea. We always talk about how much of a crap shoot the draft is, not to mention how poorly we've drafted recently in the mid rounds. If the Giants did something bold to try to nab Watkins, Clowney or a stud tackle, I wouldn't complain.

....to the low teens (17-19) for an extra 2. The FA has totally been about vet depth that can play immediately. No tier 1 guys except DRC and maybe Swhartz (tier 1a\b). All tier 2 Thurmond, Walton, etc. Now with the signing of an OT and DE....looks like a trade down maybe coming. As there is no must have guy at 12 yet. Yes they are guys that can be had at 12 but none that say done move down especially if the board falls to our liking. We still need a LB on D and a DE and there is no true that is worth 12 based on the numbers. TE can be had in rds 3 or 4. We still need an RB to backup Jennnings again rd 2 - 4. I like the BYU LB, WR, OL\DL & RB\TE in rds 1 thru 3 and that would be a good draft. Then you can get more solid depth in rds 4 thru 7. This is going to be a very fun draft to say the least.

I meant "....don'y move down especially..."

But honestly I don't think the guy would be a knock your socks off guy in Ny. Maybe elsewhere. Media & expectations can take their toll.

I am guessing naturally but, it is more likely to see a trade down. IMHO.In comment 11600285 Sir-Yes-Sir said:

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considering the universal sentiment this is a very rich and deep draft. giving away picks seems unwise. With that said, I'm sure some teams will, and while I'd rather move back and gain extra picks, that means someone must want to move up, so it's possible the Giants could be one of those teams. In the end that all falls to scouting and the staff. If they believe a guy like Robinson or Matthews or Watkins is a can't miss guy that fits us perfectly, than it's probably not a bad move. I'd rather not though, from my novice perspective...

You guys kill me with this every year.

There are still a ton of holes on this Rosters. Some of these signings are for injury insurance and competition. Some aren't making the 53.

In comment 11600568 Rjanyg said:

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We are heading into the draft with very few missing parts. TE is the most obvious need but we have little proof that the Giants absolutely love Ebron and if he will last to pick 12 anyway. We have signed 4 Oline and 2 WR ( Manningham and Holiday ) so they have bodies at the very least. If a special player is sitting a couple of spots before our pick depending on how many QB's are picked in the top 10, I can see Reese making a move. I just hope it won't include our 2nd round pick. I could live with giving up a third to move up 2 spots if they could get Mack, Robinson, Matthews or Watkins.

I think you're overrating the free agent signings. The Giants may not have a lot of "missing parts" but they don't have a lot of stars. (Eli was terrible in 2013. JPP was only okay. Cruz is a star. Rolle I guess. Amukamara is close.) They need more Pro Bowlers, All-Pros and HOFers if they're going to win another championship.

First to me there are 5 studs in this draft that fit our team...

Greg Robinson
Clowney
Jake Matthews
Sammy Watkins
Kalil Mack

To me getting one of those players far out weighs a 2nd round pick and say a 5th round pick. What team would do that? Well lets look at the Raiders. They have a ton of needs still though making progress. Last year they traded from 3rd to 13th for just a 2nd round pick. They have 1 pick in each round 1-4, but no 5th, no 6th and then 2 7th rounders. Unless the Raiders are absolutely in love with someone I think they will move down and unless a better offer comes up a 1st, 2nd, and 5th may do it and I take that deal in a heart beat to get one of the top 5 players in the draft.

spot at 5 and grab one of the players of
clowney watkins mack matthews robinson

i would give up a 1,2,5 easily to get one of them
but i dont see the giants willing to make that move with so many needs still

In comment 11601038 NewYorkGiants said:

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spot at 5 and grab one of the players of clowney watkins mack matthews robinson i would give up a 1,2,5 easily to get one of them but i dont see the giants willing to make that move with so many needs still

Oak. might go for a deal down. They could still snag Carr. Who, supposedly, they're hot for.

any trade up package the Giants offered would be similar to the Eli deal (they would want to keep their 2nd rounder)

#12 overall, #74 overall + 2015 1st rounder for Clowney. nobody else is worth it IMO

Jimmy Johnson always says you only get GREAT Defensive Linemen in one place - at the top of the draft. If you are up there, you grab one while you can and hope you are never back there again

the above deal would be very attractive to most of the teams in the top 5

I would also trade our 2014 and 2015 1st round picks for Clowney. He is a freak, I think he should be the first pick in the draft without question. If he falls I would go for it. However...I like Donald a lot as well, I think he could be better than Sapp.

of course, if we did trade up and get him I'd be so crazy excited for his potential.

Having said that, I am nervous about him. One of the most obvious red flags should always be when a player's production doesn't match his potential. Why is that the case?

Why are so many so easily dismissive of this guy taking an entire year off? Because you can relate? Have you coasted at a job before? Is it okay to coast when there is a big, fat contract ahead of you?

If so, was it okay for Nicks to do the same this year?

and it doesn't matter to me that he was a "marked man" because of his huge sophomore season. His production was just too much of a drop.

Regarding the OP... i just think all these FA signings are the result of having THAT MANY HOLES in our roster. It would have been nice to get another quality O-lineman versus all those secondary guys imo but that is where Reese saw the value.

In comment 11601038 NewYorkGiants said:

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spot at 5 and grab one of the players of clowney watkins mack matthews robinson i would give up a 1,2,5 easily to get one of them but i dont see the giants willing to make that move with so many needs still

So many needs? Our biggest needs are OT and DE pass rusher... There are only 3 blue chip players in this draft... Greg Robinson, Matthews, and Clowney. If you want a #1 WR Watkins is the next best thing and Mack is huge talent at LB. Getting one of those players would far out weigh getting a back up player at the 2nd round pick and a backup in the 5th. People value trading down to much to get extra picks because mock drafts say this player will drop and you can get a stud late. However if you have a chance to get an elite player you do it.

Eli trade was different. First everything is structured different now and picks are more value thus you don't have to give up as much. I would rather trade my 2nd this year than a 1st next year. Also we kept our 2nd because we knew we would have a great chance at Snee who the Giants loved. No way they were going to give up that pick and miss Snee. 1st, 2nd, and 5th to the Raiders... Makes sense and I would love any of the 5, but Robinson, Clowney, and then Watkins are my favorite.

only 3 elite players at OT and DE... I feel there are 5 Elite with Mack and Watkins the others.

In comment 11600285 Sir-Yes-Sir said:

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considering the universal sentiment this is a very rich and deep draft. giving away picks seems unwise. With that said, I'm sure some teams will, and while I'd rather move back and gain extra picks, that means someone must want to move up, so it's possible the Giants could be one of those teams. In the end that all falls to scouting and the staff. If they believe a guy like Robinson or Matthews or Watkins is a can't miss guy that fits us perfectly, than it's probably not a bad move. I'd rather not though, from my novice perspective...

The only guy I move up for is Clowney.

I'd be shocked if we traded up, we still need more players. Just because we signed a mediocre DE from Denver doesn't mean we are in the hunt for a championship (I like the move, but the guy isn't Strahan). If we move, it will be down.

I think they have addressed the defense...for now. The target is likely an offensive player in RD1. Have to think it is OL. Snee and Beatty are penciled in as starters. We have a potential starting center that hasn't played much. That scares me, and probably Eli more so. We still need ALOT of help there.

I still think we will grab a TE and WR high (RD2, RD3). We need another RB too, wouldn't be surprised if we grad one during the middle rounds. What happens if Jennings gets dinged? Not alot behind him. Wilson, even if he's fully healthy, hasn't proven he can handle the job.