So I'm currently about 75% done with a review of the 2000 Giants vs. Jaguars and was going back through games in which the Giants were playing for homefield advantage through the playoffs.
As we are all lucky enough to have seen 4 Super Bowl titles, the reality is that the Giants have had some teams who were good enough to win it all, but didn't. The 1985 Giants probably were good enough to win it (if they could beat the Bears on that day in Chicago). Some other teams who either just missed the playoffs or were bounced early might have been robbed- like 1988 and 1989. The 2000 team was on the doorstep but they got stomped.
That said, in my opinion, the one team that irks me was the 2008 Giants. In the era BPSH (Before Plax Shot Himself), they looked like they might have been the best all around Giants team I have ever seen. Better than the 1986 version. They had a good defense, the best rushing attack in the NFL (they averaged over 157 yards per game rushing) with 2 1000 yard backs (Jacobs and Ward) and had Bradshaw to boot. Eli threw 21 TDs to only 10 INTs. They had the Pro Bowl reps at kicker (John Carney) and punter (Jeff Feagles). Hell, they went on the road and beat the eventual Super Bowl reps (Steelers and Cardinals).
But once Plax shot himself, the air was let out of the team, and they stumbled to the finish (though just outlasted the Panthers in that OT thriller), only to fizzle out of the playoffs at the hands of the Eagles.
Maybe the Giants "got one back" in 2011 that they should have won in 2008, but in looking back at woulda/coulda/shoulda... that was the best team I saw for the Giants who left a championship on the table.
Then fuckwad shot himself and that was that. Magic over.
In 2008 the Giants from mid October (post Cleveland game) to mid November (plax shooting) is the second best I have ever seen the Giants. In that stretch they won on the road in Pittsburgh, Arizona - the two teams that played in the Super Bowl. (i think the beat philly in that stretch also). That team was rolling....
the 2008 team would have repeated if plax didn't shoot himself.
the 2002 defense was putrid so i wouldn't call it the best giants team to miss a championship, but that offense was firing on all cylinders, and fassel let off the gas on offense and let things just crumble.
as per the other thread, the 93 team is in the discussion too, but they obviously had some holes as san fran exposed.
Going back in time, through my research and just general football reading, the 1950, 1959 and 1963 Giants certainly had what it took to bring home a title but weren't able to close the deal. The 1950 team in particular was a machine, they gave the Browns everything they could handle.
but you are not going to win a SB in this era just running the ball, and really that was the only part of the team that was championship calibre--the running game
89 was harder to accept, though. 08 was like a slow, tortured death, the end of which you accepted. we were just not as good without Plax on the field, it impacted the entire offense and it was something that we saw plainly as the weeks wore on in the late regular season.
89, on the other hand, was a rip-your-heart-out-and-show-it-to-you experience that i haven't quite recovered from yet. not sure i ever will. seeing flipper anderson run out of the back of the end zone and into the tunnel is a memory that will stay with me forever.
That lost to the Jets was just inexplicable. It was like, it the 4th Q they finally realized that they just might lose the game and not make the playoffs. But by then it was just too late.
The defense was starting to run out of gas, but I will NEVER forgive that asshole for shooting himself. Nor will I ever understand why Reese and Coughlin, knowing what they knew, gave him a contract in September 2008 instead of trading him on the heels of that big performance in Green Bay. Never should have brought him back. Many fans would have been mad, but many fans are also stupid.
Admittedly, Eli was only in his second season and was having some troubles near the end of the year, but the postseason field was also pretty weak.
Had Jay Feeley made one of three field goal tries in Seattle, the Giants would have had the top seed in the playoffs, and they were 7-1 at home that year.
They weren't nearly as good as the 2008 or 1989 teams were, but with better injury luck or a kicker who didn't choke I think the team could have been something memorable.
MAYBE '62 MORESO BECAUSE WE WERE HOME, BUT '63 BECAUSE OF ALL THE O.
That team was building tremendous momentum with the last month of games before that, all the way up to the third quarter of the Niners game.
89 was harder to accept, though. 08 was like a slow, tortured death, the end of which you accepted. we were just not as good without Plax on the field, it impacted the entire offense and it was something that we saw plainly as the weeks wore on in the late regular season.
89, on the other hand, was a rip-your-heart-out-and-show-it-to-you experience that i haven't quite recovered from yet. not sure i ever will. seeing flipper anderson run out of the back of the end zone and into the tunnel is a memory that will stay with me forever.
Well said. Fuck that fat prick John Robinson. Mother Effers.
The 88 team couldn't close out the Jets so they don't count IMO. Of course, the Rice play . . . ugh.
2008 too, if Plax stayed healthy would have won another Bowl. 2007-2008 - 2012 nice.
Followed by 2008.....
From what I have read and heard from my father and others, they should have beaten the Bears in 1963, and many (especially Gifford) think they would have beaten the Colts in 1958 had they gone for it on 4th and short at the end of regulation.
The 2008 team just demolished almost everyone they played through the first three months of the season. That was the first Giants team since Parcells that seemed like a real juggernaut.
1988 the JEST won their SB by taking us out.
2008 was a shear meltdown and as someone else mentioned earlier, not a rip your guts out type loss, but rather a string of decline
It's one thing if you lose your quarterback. But a WR?
I used to think the '85 Giants were better than the '86 team, but I was wrong. Damn good team, but not better than '89. The '89 team looked ready to make a Super Bowl run, but wow that Flipper Anderson game stung. Still stings.
Mook, one thing to keep in mind. The Giants started to falter in the 2nd Eagles game. Plax shot himself before the Redskins game and the Giants won that pretty easily. It was the week after, when more details came out that the circus descended on the Giants with the media and Bloomberg. They were distracted and flat in losing 20-14 to Philly. If the Giants had their heads on straight, I think they beat the Eagles, putting them at 6-6-1 and would have put the nail in their coffin. They made the playoffs because the Bears and Bucs shit the bed to open the door, and Dallas couldn't close them out (they got killed as they typically do in a win and in scenario in Week 16).
Giants beat Philly in that game, the Eagles were out of the playoffs and couldn't come back to haunt them. Man, I hate the Eagles.
But the d-line was shot at the end of the season. Hard for me to believe even with Plaxico that they would have been able to win it all with a d-line playing like that
2008 is the obvious choice because they were unquestionably the best team in the NFL 1 second before Plax's gun went off. I still think they would've made the Super Bowl as long as they could've avoided division rivals like Philly in the postseason.
2010 defense:
5th in sacks
1st in takeaways
1st in forced fumbles and recoveries
1st in 3rd down defense by a wide margin
1st in fewest yards allowed per drive
1st in lowest opponents' TOP per drive
The Giants recovered more fumbles than 25 teams even forced.
The tiebreaker for the 2nd bye would've actually been with New Orleans. I'm not certain, but I think the tiebreaking method for 3 teams would've eliminated the Bears immediately and the Saints might've beaten the Giants on common games.
I agree. The '08 team was the most dominant I had ever seen the Giants. That team would have been remembered as a historical juggernaut on the level of the '72 Dolphins and '85 Bears if they had won it all. The team that won the Superbowl that year, the Steelers? When they played the Giants, I remember people noting that the Steelers actually QUIT. They couldn't take it.
2011 makes me feel better about it, but the '89 Giants may not have beaten the '89 Niners. '08 Giants creamed all 4 of the teams in the Championship round. The only thing that stopped the '08 Giants was themselves.
and even 1984, except for SF we are hot
All that, how the f*&k do lose to the Jets with everything on the line. They would have been the 2 seed, which would have knocked out nemesis Rams, which meant SF coming to NY to play. The Bears were not that good as the 1 seed that year
The 89 team was good but would have had to win in SF
By the playoffs we were done. No momentum at all.
This was clearly not the best Giant team that fell short of a championship. We were dying on the vine...
To sit here and act like the NYG beating the 89 niners as some forgone conclusion is really just ridiculous. And I loved that 89 team but c'mon people.. They couldn't beat jim Everett or the buddy Ryan eagles but they were gonna go into candlestick and beat that niner team? No. Be fair here.
Just like when idiots say the 86 bears would have beaten the 86 giants... No. I have respect for that niner dynasty. I'll give that 89 NYG team a 5-10 % chance of beating the niners.. And that's being friendly.
The 89 giants, relative to their era were not as good or dominant as the 2008 giants. Problem with the 08 team was not just plax shooting himself. That's a cop out. That team was losing steam by December. A healthy plax certainly gives NYG more room for error though. Can't deny that. Maybe they find a way to get by philly in the playoffs with plax but with or without him that team was losing steam much like the 07 pats were losing steam.
With that said i would vote for 08 giants.
All three squads were playing aggressive football and coming up with those "special" plays that help you win games.
Unfortunately, that Raven defense had all the confidence in the world and took it out on Collins and the O-line in the superbowl.
2010 team is another good call. When healthy that team could and did beat down anyone. Not just beat but dominant. Fucking Vick bullshit game...
88 giants were a weird team. Worst rushing team under parcells... Simms had a good year through. People thought going in that 89 would be the transitional year but in reality it was the 88 team that set the transition in motion. Harry's last year. Martin's last year. Morris would be lost in the 89 preseason. But the thing with 88 was there were no real dominant teams. Niners struggled at times I think they went 10-6 too? If so Giants would have owned home field against sf in the playoffs if they just beat the stupid jets in the finale. Who was the one seed that year? Without cheating I'll say it was the bears? I believe the niners won the NFC title game in Chicago that year. If we beat the jets we could have made noise that year... Kind of overlooked here. Not a great team but a weak NFC could have been had.
It's annoying isn't it? :)
Those '80s Rams teams were really good. They lacked a pedigree to go all the way but on any given Sunday they were as good as anybody. People think the NFC West was super soft, but those Rams beat the Eagles and Giants in back to back weeks in the '89 playoffs on the road. Nuff said.
Homerness aside, I can't see how the a worse Giants team ('89 vs '90) beats a better 49er team ('89 vs. '90) when the '90 team barely got it done without some luck. Roger Craig's knee was the difference. The Giants were able to get away with limiting Craig using nickel and maybe even dime packages. That's how they played the 49ers so tough in '90.
Even though we crushed the Rams 30-3 a week later, I'm more willing to entertain them playing the what if game because they were a Ronnie Lott HOF saving tip from Flipper catching a bomb and going up 10-0 on us.
I respect the Giants' teams of that era enormously. But the hypotheticals get too tiring. The 2008 team is probably the only team in franchise history that blew it.
To sit here and act like the NYG beating the 89 niners as some forgone conclusion is really just ridiculous. And I loved that 89 team but c'mon people.. They couldn't beat jim Everett or the buddy Ryan eagles but they were gonna go into candlestick and beat that niner team? No. Be fair here.
Just like when idiots say the 86 bears would have beaten the 86 giants... No. I have respect for that niner dynasty. I'll give that 89 NYG team a 5-10 % chance of beating the niners.. And that's being friendly.
The 89 giants, relative to their era were not as good or dominant as the 2008 giants. Problem with the 08 team was not just plax shooting himself. That's a cop out. That team was losing steam by December. A healthy plax certainly gives NYG more room for error though. Can't deny that. Maybe they find a way to get by philly in the playoffs with plax but with or without him that team was losing steam much like the 07 pats were losing steam.
With that said i would vote for 08 giants.
I was only 2 in 1989, but Francesa has said that Parcells believes the 89 team was the best team he had with the Giants and thought they were going to win it all.
our offense was absolutely rolling
and the next week we would be playing a tampa bay team that we matched up as well as anyone did . we could have beaten them
that would have left rematch with an eagles team that we had beaten in last week of season
the AFC teams that season we rather weak
oakland was their super bowl rep and never had a chance
we could have won it all that year
The '89 team is the one that does it for me. Parcells thought that was the best team he ever had.
In 88 had the Giants made the playoffs, the Niners would have had to come to NY, and they were not nearly as good as their 89 team. The Bears were not a strong 1 in 88.
Amazing how a guy like Plaxico can make all your dreams come true one season and then absolutely crush them the very next season lol.
IMHO I think the Giants had a shot in 1988 against the 40 whiners. But 1989 the Niners where one of the best teams in the history of the NFL, and think they would have spanked us by at least 10 point or more.
The 2000 club should have had a better showing to the Ravens who were that good on defense, and that year as they say defense wins championships and it did.
2008 I am right on board with many who say we should have ended the Eagles season when we had a chance but let it slip away.
1985, the Bears game helped us win in 1986, but think we could have won that game too.
1963 with no back up QB, we would have better off using the punter at QB it was that bad after ours went down.
My rankings are
1. 2008 could have
2. 1963 should have
3. 1985 might have
4. 1988 maybe
5. 2000 should have been closer
and it wash;t only one player that brought 2008 down - Plax shooting himself was definitely a catalyst to bringing that '08 team down. But Plax wasn't the only player involved in that mess - there were several Giants players involved in the Plax shooting including Pierce and and as I remember Bradshaw and at least one other player - I suspect that there where others involved in the proceedings - and they were all effected by it with the ongoing investigation and the sort of coverup that occurred with Plax'es gun - It took away from practice and certainly shook up the rest of the team
In 88 had the Giants made the playoffs, the Niners would have had to come to NY, and they were not nearly as good as their 89 team.
That's not necessarily true.
49ers and Giants were both 10-5 going into the final week. They ended the season at 10-6 each.
If you rewrite history and the Giants beat Jets, they go 11-5.
However, the Jets/Giants was played before SF/LA, so the 49ers final record could have been different.
So if the 49ers needed to win, they apparently could have (they only lost because they wanted to, obviously..."laid down like dogs"). So now they win, finish 11-5 and get the tiebreaker over the Giants courtesy of winning at Giants stadium early in the season.
The 49ers were most likely going to be #2 seed regardless, and even if they had to play at Giants stadium, it was not a guarantee to lose.
But Eli did throw for over 4000 yards with a career high 31 TD passes.
Bradshaw rushed for 1200 yards at 4.5 yards/carry and caught 47 balls. Jacobs, with less than two-thirds the carries of Bradshaw, averaged 5.6 yards/carry. That Jacobs stat surprised me, since he was always supposed to be the short yardage guy.
Overall team rushing was 137.5/game vs. opponents 101.3, and the Giants delivered 46 sacks. Yep, 46 sacks before JPP. Tuck and Osi tied for the most with 11.5. Two years later, they combined for 10. In 2011 Giants rushing was 89.2 yards/carry vs. opponents 121.3. I guess you could say that the team shouldn't have released O'Hara and Seubert until they had people to replace them, but since we won it all in 2011, wouldn't want to change a thing.
Terrell Thomas had his one big career year. He led the team with 81 solo tackles, and produced 1 sack, 5 picks, and 4 forced fumbles.
I don't remember everything that caused the Giants' second half swoon in 2010, but fumbles must have had a big hand in it. Bradshaw marred his otherwise fine year with seven fumbles out of which he lost six. Jacobs and Manning each lost two fumbles.
You can't count in 1993 after they were dismantled by the 49ers in the playoffs.
The 2002 team, I believe would have beaten the Buccaneers.
And the 2008 team? Damn, even after 2011, this one still hurts. I think we were clearly the best team in the league. I was at the Pittsburgh game, and remember the Arizona game. In both cases, went on the road and came out winners. The two teams that went to the Super Bowl, and we were better than either of them (although in the Pittsburgh game, the Steelers were killed by a safety on a punt because their long snapper went down with an injury and James Harrison snapped the ball 20 feet over the punter's head. But losing Plax killed the pass game. We lost our best receiver, who wasn't having a big statistical year but was drawing double teams and allowing our other receivers to get opportunities. Once Plax left, the rest of our receivers weren't talented enough to break man-to-man, and teams (i.e. Dallas and Philadelphia) were able to focus on shutting down the run. Philadelphia wasn't all that far below us, owing to our primetime win earlier in the year which was back and forth until the clock ran out and we were winning. You take an important part out of our offense, and that was enough to Philly to leapfrog us.
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Going all the way? You do realize that the 89 niners team was probably the greatest team of all time, right?
To sit here and act like the NYG beating the 89 niners as some forgone conclusion is really just ridiculous. And I loved that 89 team but c'mon people.. They couldn't beat jim Everett or the buddy Ryan eagles but they were gonna go into candlestick and beat that niner team? No. Be fair here.
Just like when idiots say the 86 bears would have beaten the 86 giants... No. I have respect for that niner dynasty. I'll give that 89 NYG team a 5-10 % chance of beating the niners.. And that's being friendly.
The 89 giants, relative to their era were not as good or dominant as the 2008 giants. Problem with the 08 team was not just plax shooting himself. That's a cop out. That team was losing steam by December. A healthy plax certainly gives NYG more room for error though. Can't deny that. Maybe they find a way to get by philly in the playoffs with plax but with or without him that team was losing steam much like the 07 pats were losing steam.
With that said i would vote for 08 giants.
I was only 2 in 1989, but Francesa has said that Parcells believes the 89 team was the best team he had with the Giants and thought they were going to win it all.
I've heard that too but I don't agree. The 89 giants were nasty on d and their oline was awesome but the passing game sucked. Bavaro was hurt and Ingram and baker were still in need of some seasoning. Simms had his worst year as a full time starter, thanks in part to a lengthy summer hold out. I just don't think that 89 team had the offense to keep up with the niners but they certainly represented San Fran's biggest threat.
I still think the 88 team as flawed as they were had a legit shot, almost a forgone certainty of making it to the NFC title game of they just win that fucking game against the jets. Bye week and a home game in a pretty down NFC conference.
The 90 team had Bavaro. They had Hampton for most of the year. They had a much better Phil Simms.
They had more experience and talent on defense with the additions of walls, duerson and mike fox.
And at the very least the 90 team went 13-3 vs 12-4 and didn't fold in a home playoff game against a pretty tough bears team like the 89 team did against LA. Instead they crushed the bears.
On paper and with my own eyes that 90 team was flat out better and tougher and smarter than the 89 team. Parcells can say whatever he wants to say.. Maybe the 89 team was younger and more "talented" but that 90 team was as tough, resourceful and resilient as any team in nfl history.