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Rick Gosselin on Aaron Donald

Ira : 4/4/2014 8:51 am
There has been a lot of discussion on Donald these past weeks. However, when I came across this article written several weeks ago by Gosselin I thought it deserved a thread as Gosselin is one of the best nfl sportswriters in the business. Here is part of what he had to say with a link to the full article below.
Quote:

There was no more dynamic defensive player in college football last season than Donald, who took home the Bednarik, Lombardi, Nagurski and Outland trophies and awards as the game’s best defender in 2013. He led the nation with 28 1/2 tackles for loss, including 11 sacks.

Donald is the most decorated defensive tackle to enter the NFL since Ndamukong Suh, who won the same four trophies as Donald for his own defensive prowess at Nebraska in 2009. He has since gone to three Pro Bowls with the Detroit Lions.

But they are two different players. At 6-4, 307 pounds, Suh is physically dominant. He mauls blockers. At 6-0 1/2, 285, Donald relies on his speed. He embarrasses blockers with his quick penetration into backfields. Donald ran a 4.65 40 at the combine. That’s electric for a man his size.


Gosselin goes on to compare Donald to the Viking's John Randle and Tampa's Warren Sapp (not for his intellect).
Link - ( New Window )
Gosselin is G-d.  
Big Blue '56 : 4/4/2014 8:53 am : link
:)
Isn't Gosselin more respected for his ability to predict  
jcn56 : 4/4/2014 8:58 am : link
the draft order than for scouting/reviewing individual athletes?
It is not just his speed...  
Chris L. : 4/4/2014 9:03 am : link
it is his combination of speed and power. He also led DTs at the combine with 35 reps in the bench press. His speed gets guys off balance and then he is able to use his power to push by them. The best comparison is to Geno Atkins. He ran a 4.75 40 and did 34 reps at the combine. Atkins was 291 at the combine while Arnold weighed in at 285. Atkins is slightly less than an inch taller than Donald. They are very similar players.
He might not get past Tampa at 7  
jeff57 : 4/4/2014 9:15 am : link
Lovie could pair him with McCoy in the Tampa 2. But Mosley is the perfect Tampa 2 MLB, so they could reach for him.
The Comparison is Warren Sapp  
geelabee : 4/4/2014 9:24 am : link
Who measured at 6'2' 284 before the 1995 combine vs Donald's 6 5/8 285...put Donald in the NFL lifting program and he will get to 300lbs within 18 months
I really think....  
Wonderphil11 : 4/4/2014 9:27 am : link
Donald goes before 12 one way or another. I'll also be very interested to hear Cossels take on him. I really believe he's going to be Geno Atkins like and Geno Atkins does not fall out of the top 10 in this draft.
Wonderphil11, just a short blurb from rotoworld:  
Klaatu : 4/4/2014 9:34 am : link
Quote:

NFL Films' Greg Cosell compared Pittsburgh DT Aaron Donald to Bengals DT Geno Atkins.

"He's a quick, penetrating, gap player," said Cosell, who cautioned that teams need to understand what Donald can and can't bring to the table before they draft him. "He's not a guy that's going to take on double teams," Cosell said. Although Donald's frame won't allow for that, he's a pocket collapsing DT. He is also NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock's top-ranked DT prospect.


I tried to find a podcast, no luck so far. If you check out Bucky Brooks at nfl.com, he's got a video up where he compares Donald and Atkins.
I realize that the BBI collective opinion on Donald is very split...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/4/2014 9:37 am : link
I don't expect the Giants to take him, but would be very excited if they did.

Having said that, I want no part of him on the Cowboys. No way. For that matter, I don't want him landing on any NFC East team other than the Giants.

Let him go to the Raiders or someone in the AFC please. The next Geno Atkins? Great, we don't see Atkins more than once every four years unless it's in the Super Bowl.
What's the guestimate of Donald falling to 12?  
Big Blue '56 : 4/4/2014 9:37 am : link
What other teams might genuinely be in play for him from 1-11?
Ugh, 5 weeks away from the draft  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/4/2014 9:38 am : link
This is fucking maddening.
Thanks Klaatu...  
Wonderphil11 : 4/4/2014 9:40 am : link
I think he's also going to be discussing the Dline with Ross Tucker on his podcast next Wed.

I'd be very happy with that description as Olines would open up a whole new can of worms if they double Donald on the Giants Dline.
RE: What's the guestimate of Donald falling to 12?  
Klaatu : 4/4/2014 9:42 am : link
In comment 11604334 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
What other teams might genuinely be in play for him from 1-11?


1-11, maybe Tampa Bay? The bigger risk is that the Bears or the Cowboys trade up ahead of us to draft him.
I  
AcidTest : 4/4/2014 9:54 am : link
would love to get him, but I am beginning to think that somebody is going to take him before #12. As someone said, TB could easily take him, or the Cowboys could trade up to get him. There's going to be a lot of disappointment here if he's available, and Reese passes.
I wouldn't...  
Wonderphil11 : 4/4/2014 9:56 am : link
rule out the Vikings either with Zimmer as the HC...seem to be set but they did lose Allen and how happy are they with Floyd?
If teams at the top can trade down a bit their guy could be gone  
wgenesis123 : 4/4/2014 10:16 am : link
and in that scenario anyone could take him. Supposedly he isn't that high on draft boards but in the next five weeks he could climb up or down. My money would be on up. I agree with the other poster who said someone trading up one or two spots in front of the Giants is your biggest threat to take him before 12. I will be really worried if someone with a QB trades up, especially Dallas or Chicago. The upside is if 3 QB's and Donald go before the Giants a really good player will fall to the Giants.
RE: Isn't Gosselin more respected for his ability to predict  
yatqb : 4/4/2014 10:28 am : link
In comment 11604270 jcn56 said:
Quote:
the draft order than for scouting/reviewing individual athletes?


Gosselin has tons of contacts in front offices, and I'd guess that some of his opinions are influenced by what he hears from those sources.
YATQB is spot on with respect to Rick Gosselin  
Rick in Dallas : 4/4/2014 10:40 am : link
loads of front office contacts.His final mock draft published the day before the draft was always one of the most accurate mock drafts published each year.

We are lucky in Dallas having Rick write featured sports articles in the DMN.
Whoever  
AnishPatel : 4/4/2014 10:42 am : link
drafts him better pray the guy never suffers a lower leg injury otherwise this guy will be bounced out of the league so quick. Reminds me of what happened to Tommie Harris DT, Bears, who was a beast. Damn good 3T who got too many lower leg injuries and now he is out of the league.

I don't want Donald, the guy is even smaller then Harris. The way our first rounders seem to get hurt, no thanks on Donald. Get a DT later in the draft or sign an undrafted FA.
And I'm now on the Donald bandwagon.  
yatqb : 4/4/2014 10:49 am : link
I think he'd add a dimension to our pass rush that we haven't had since the NASCAR package was in full swing, and before that since the days of Keith Hamilton.
Anish...  
Wonderphil11 : 4/4/2014 10:53 am : link
you could use that same argument for any drafted player. Hell, look at the Giants history at TE...only healthy one that comes to mind is Cross.
Not Surprised  
RetroJint : 4/4/2014 10:57 am : link
He is the type of game changer that teams will maneuver in the first round to snag. The deal about being engulfed & neutralized in the running game is BS.
RE: Anish...  
AnishPatel : 4/4/2014 11:01 am : link
In comment 11604483 Wonderphil11 said:
Quote:
you could use that same argument for any drafted player. Hell, look at the Giants history at TE...only healthy one that comes to mind is Cross.


Yeah but that's his only asset. For example, Evans relies on his height and hands. It's not like one can say if he gets older and loses 5 inches he will 6'0 and short. This guy's asset is mainly his speed mixed with his strength.

Our first rounders are like china dolls. They get hurt, and I don't want a guy that just relies on speed playing a position in the trenches where the fat people collide. Just look at Tommie Harris who was a damn good 3T who was bigger.

Like I said, I'd draft a DT later on and see if any undrafted FA make the team.
The thing....  
Wonderphil11 : 4/4/2014 11:02 am : link
that really clinches Donald going high for me is that teams can't find what he brings in lower rounds. If a team wants an immediate impact pass rusher...it's Clowney, Mack, Barr or Donald..and I'll throw in Jernigan, as well. It seems that all the other options are projects and certainly not on the Elite or borderline Elite level.
I think  
PaulN : 4/4/2014 11:05 am : link
Donald will be there, and although I have to admit I am very nervous about his size and not certain he will be able to dominate Pro guards at all, let alone abuse the guards the way he did in college, and this is where the big question is, nobody can doubt that he was dominant, but will it translate to the next level.

But, I have to admit in the modern NFL, this guy could be the wave of the future, he could be exactly what you need to become a dominant defense in the new pass happy NFL.

Despite my doubts, I would make Donald the pick at 12, you simply have to take a chance at some point, this guy could put the Giants at an entirely new level on defense. He may not be great against the run, but he should take up 2 blockers inside, that should allow the combination of Beason/McClain/Paysinger to make plenty of stops against the run. I think with the emergence of Paysinger in the run defense, and the addition of McClain, and with Beason coming in knowing the defense a lot better, I think that the Giants are set up perfectly to take the chance and make Donald an all pro tackle for us.
Fair enough Anish....  
Wonderphil11 : 4/4/2014 11:06 am : link
I can see your point it's just that I feel that applies to most on the Dline and I would argue that his assets also include a high football IQ, intense work ethic and very refined technique but I do see what your concern is.
Again with the freaking 40 time  
kmed : 4/4/2014 11:10 am : link
of a damn DT. Why the hell is that even a part of the discussion???? It means nothing in regards to quickness.
kmed....  
Wonderphil11 : 4/4/2014 11:20 am : link
while I would agree that the 10yrd split is more important for a DT, there are plenty of instances where Donald uses his speed to run down the QB or RB behind the LOS as they run toward the edge and his speed certainly helps in that regard.
NFL.COM  
Beer Man : 4/4/2014 11:22 am : link
Has a rather unipressive view of A. Donald. They have him as a 4-5 round pick.
NFL.com - ( New Window )
Beer Man  
Blue Blood : 4/4/2014 11:26 am : link
that is a very old assessment. Donald has basically been one of the most dominant defensive players all year... if he was a little taller and a little heavier he would be the top defensive player hands down.. the ONLY knock on him is his height and size.. he is a little short... if he were 6'2 and 300 there wouldnt even be a discussion about him...

think about it.. if he was 1 3/" of an inch taller and 15lbs heavier.. he would be a top ten pick.. EASY... hands down..

RE: Fair enough Anish....  
AnishPatel : 4/4/2014 11:28 am : link
In comment 11604517 Wonderphil11 said:
Quote:
I can see your point it's just that I feel that applies to most on the Dline and I would argue that his assets also include a high football IQ, intense work ethic and very refined technique but I do see what your concern is.


You need your legs and lower body for drive, quickness, and if that goes then you're a strong under sized DT, who lacks the one asset that helped make you who you are.

Yeah those are good intangibles too. You can have that but if you physical body is compromised then a 6'4-6'6 315-335 LB guard will drive your ass across the OL creating a gaping lane for the RB to hit.

I always find it funny when people say..  
Blue Blood : 4/4/2014 11:32 am : link
he wont be able to dominate Pro guards like he did college guards..


as if we get guards somewhere else other than college
Few guards from college make it  
mamamia : 4/4/2014 11:38 am : link
in the pros. Do even 1% get to the NFL level?
RE: I always find it funny when people say..  
AnishPatel : 4/4/2014 11:50 am : link
In comment 11604560 Blue Blood said:
Quote:
he wont be able to dominate Pro guards like he did college guards..


as if we get guards somewhere else other than college


That's not the point. It depends on the level of competition he played against. What scouts look for is who the player played against. So if he plays College X and dominates the game, you look back and see who the guards were.

Will those guards be in the NFL? If so, what round? Undrafted? 1st rounders? So if he went against undrafted guards, or who will be undrafted and kicked the ever living shit out of them, then scouts will notice that.

That's what they mean. You want to see the level of competition AND the specific players he went against. So if the player is feasting on average to above average guards, then people will say what you're saying. Will he do well against NFL guards, who were good enough to make it to the NFL AND start in the pros?
Can't you say the same thing about most other positions?  
Klaatu : 4/4/2014 12:03 pm : link
WRs vs. CBs and vice versa, for example.
Klaatu,  
AnishPatel : 4/4/2014 12:30 pm : link
Yeah and that's how they scout it or the people I talked to in the NFL. You see production, and check level of competition and see who guys are producing against.

That's the way I was taught to scout.
RE: Few guards from college make it  
Blue Blood : 4/4/2014 12:30 pm : link
In comment 11604571 mamamia said:
Quote:
in the pros. Do even 1% get to the NFL level?


so exactly where are we getting these guards from then ??
Blue Blood  
Hades07 : 4/4/2014 12:48 pm : link
A large portion of NFL guards were college tackles. The number of starting college guards that play in the NFL is very small. For example, the Giants have 7 guards on their roster and only 2 of them were guards in college, the rest were tackles.

The question more relevant, is how many NFL caliber guards/centers did Donald face and how did he do against them.
He did dominate....  
Wonderphil11 : 4/4/2014 12:59 pm : link
at the Senior Bowl...so there's that. I know it's a far cry from seasoned NFL Olineman but it's not a bad sign either.
Thats a good thing.  
AnishPatel : 4/4/2014 1:30 pm : link
You take that and forecast it. I remember when Kiwi got dominated by D brickashaw Ferguson at the senior bowl. It helps but that's the type of thingscouts have to evaluate and then forecast how that pprospect will do from then on.
thanks to BBI, I'm sold on Donald  
SHO'NUFF : 4/4/2014 1:35 pm : link
I watched clips of him and it didn't even look real...nobody was blocking him...he looked like Adam Sandler in the Water Boy....and thanks to Sy, i think, and other posters who absolutely eviscerated Ebron, Evans, and a few other potential picks.
Rick Gosselin was a vocal opponent of Harry Carson into the HOF  
Greg from LI : 4/4/2014 1:38 pm : link
So fuck him
I have little doubt that Donald will make it big in the Pros  
mamamia : 4/4/2014 1:40 pm : link
because his unusual combination of quickness and strength can overcome many largter obstacles

Since 99% of the Guards and tackles at the college level will never sniiff the pros it is hard to judge just how good a player is. Just as teams can only beat the weak schedule in front of them players can only dominate what is put before them
RE: thanks to BBI, I'm sold on Donald  
Simms11 : 4/4/2014 1:45 pm : link
In comment 11604796 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
I watched clips of him and it didn't even look real...nobody was blocking him...he looked like Adam Sandler in the Water Boy....and thanks to Sy, i think, and other posters who absolutely eviscerated Ebron, Evans, and a few other potential picks.


"he looked like Adam Sandler in the Water Boy" - LMAO!
Do these  
TMS : 4/4/2014 2:02 pm : link
harpies for Donald ever take a break?? Day in and day out, post after post. Do they think this will convince Reese and management to make a pick if they do not agree? It has certainly been beat to death here and is getting old.
I think he could maybe slide out to DE  
Amtoft : 4/4/2014 2:23 pm : link
and then into DT on passing downs like Justin Tuck... Problem is he is short for a DE. I would be ok with Donald, but I think I would rather go elsewhere.
There comes a point where the production  
GmenDynasty : 4/4/2014 3:12 pm : link
you see on film is just so special you can sometimes ignore a shortcoming or two.

He is just so damn quick and strong, his lack of height will be made up by everything else he does so well.
I'd prefer Donald over guys like  
illmatic : 4/4/2014 3:28 pm : link
Evans and Ebron. I'd prefer him over Martin and probably Lewan too. I just think he has the higher ceiling over them and is more likely to be a gamechanger type of player.

I also think he'll be there at 12. It seems like not everyone views him as being the way he's described in the article or as being a sure thing. Plus with the QBs and whatnot that will be taken, guys like him will slide down to the 10-12 range. If he goes before 12, it just means someone like Barr will be slipping.
The guy I compare Donald to is Justin Tuck...  
Milton : 4/4/2014 3:50 pm : link
...from 2007 and 2008, when the Giants would move him inside and his combination of quickness and strength was just too much for interior linemen.
RE: The guy I compare Donald to is Justin Tuck...  
GmenDynasty : 4/4/2014 4:08 pm : link
In comment 11605087 Milton said:
Quote:
...from 2007 and 2008, when the Giants would move him inside and his combination of quickness and strength was just too much for interior linemen.


Another good comparison.... Tuck at that time was between 270-275
Tuck was also 6-5.  
Klaatu : 4/4/2014 4:41 pm : link
With arms to match.
RE: Tuck was also 6-5.  
AnishPatel : 4/4/2014 5:09 pm : link
In comment 11605147 Klaatu said:
Quote:
With arms to match.


Exactly! They left that part out. Christ, if Donald was 6'5 and could do all that. Then adding on some weight and drafting him would be good. He'd be bigger than Tommie Harris. 6'5 290-300 DT with the strength and speed would be great.

Even like Dorgan said, you can't teach height. So even on 3 step drops, we'd have those arms in the air padding down balls.
Well, the guy did 35 lifts at 225, was imo stout against the run  
yatqb : 4/4/2014 5:52 pm : link
in college, and beat double teams routinely when rushing the passer. I think he has the chance to be a game changer in the pros. Who do you double team if we take him, Hankins or Donald?
Depends  
AnishPatel : 4/4/2014 5:58 pm : link
on team, personnel, and what they do running the ball and when passing. That will dictate the run blocking assignment and pass pro scheme.

I've heard a lot of concern that...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/4/2014 6:07 pm : link
he doesn't hold up to double teams or can be pushed around in the running game. Unfortunately, not one person has been able to provide ANY video evidence of that being true. I've reviewed full games closely, watching every snap, and I've not seen him do anything but hold his own, even against double teams, and against guys with legit NFL size (330-340 pound all-american guys).

I have concluded that those are just concerns based on size, just opinions based on a bias toward larger guards, not validated by anything seen on a football field. I just need to see this guy being pushed around to believe it.

Why? He's light for a DT, but only because he really doesn't carry any extra weight. He's basically a muscle hamster at his size - pretty much all muscle. He's not like the 330 lb fat DT, or even the 305 guy carrying 40 pounds or more of fat.

His technique is constantly praised and I've seen it and believe it to be true. Smaller guys consistently beat larger guys if their technique is great and they are strong enough to make it happen. Donald has all the techniques down. He uses his low center of gravity and his strength to his advantage.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Donald's biggest flaw due to his body type is that he will wear down by the end of games. He probably cannot do more than around 40 snaps a game. On a good team he wouldn't have to do that.
If Donald was 6'3 and weighed 300 with his strength, quickness  
Ira : 4/4/2014 7:39 pm : link
and explosiveness, he'd be the first pick in the draft. At 6', 285, he might just be available when we pick.
RE: I've heard a lot of concern that...  
GmenDynasty : 4/4/2014 8:35 pm : link
In comment 11605220 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
he doesn't hold up to double teams or can be pushed around in the running game. Unfortunately, not one person has been able to provide ANY video evidence of that being true. I've reviewed full games closely, watching every snap, and I've not seen him do anything but hold his own, even against double teams, and against guys with legit NFL size (330-340 pound all-american guys).

I have concluded that those are just concerns based on size, just opinions based on a bias toward larger guards, not validated by anything seen on a football field. I just need to see this guy being pushed around to believe it.

Why? He's light for a DT, but only because he really doesn't carry any extra weight. He's basically a muscle hamster at his size - pretty much all muscle. He's not like the 330 lb fat DT, or even the 305 guy carrying 40 pounds or more of fat.

His technique is constantly praised and I've seen it and believe it to be true. Smaller guys consistently beat larger guys if their technique is great and they are strong enough to make it happen. Donald has all the techniques down. He uses his low center of gravity and his strength to his advantage.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Donald's biggest flaw due to his body type is that he will wear down by the end of games. He probably cannot do more than around 40 snaps a game. On a good team he wouldn't have to do that.


Great analysis, him and Lee are my favorite two picks for the Gmen at 12. Get the OL at 43.
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