Why Not Marqise Lee?

looking back on it, yes, he probably would have mostly because it was a pitiful year at WR.

My overall point is he isn't the gamechanger you would want at 12. He can be a solid to very good NFL WR but I don't see great. I'd rather beef up the OL or take Donald; both of which can help transform that side of the ball, potentially.

In comment 11608640 UConn4523 said:

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looking back on it, yes, he probably would have mostly because it was a pitiful year at WR. My overall point is he isn't the gamechanger you would want at 12. He can be a solid to very good NFL WR but I don't see great.

Just to play devil's advocate, this is what people said about Hakeem Nicks coming out, and I think what Nicks did through 2011 would've made him worthy of the 12th pick.

I would also take Lee over Evans,but it might not be the best value.

Which means we can only take him between picks 15 and 43.If Jerry wants him at 12,he's gotta trade down and get another 5th round pick.

That's the rules,it's written in the 10 Draft Commandments by Mel Kiper.

Though I like Cooks and Beckham Jr. more than Lee

My concern is how much Barkley made Lee look better versus the opposite scenario because even with the injuries and poor QB play this year you would have expected at least similar YPC but that did not happen. He also had more drops this past season and that does cause some concern

and I'd take Lee at 29 were we picking there.

I just can't think of a good enough reason to take Lee at 12. He's not dynamic enough to warrant that spot.

I don't dislike Lee, I just think he's very poor value at 12.

40 times a game that season, it's hard for me to look past that when looking at Lee's 2013 production. That's an insane amount of passing, moreso than most teams in the NFL.

Before the combine I thought of him as a top WR,he ran 4.53 and he seems faster on tape,I love Lee and his runs after the catch.I would not be disappointed as I view him as a differrence maker.I rather get Donald or Lewan because the WR depth is off the charts in this draft,Bradind Cooks is also I guy I would love to have,and I pknow we don't need him now but besides Clooney I think Gilbert is the best player in this draft with huge impavt ability.

Here is the facts - In 2 years with Barkley, he threw the ball less times than Manziel threw in the 2 years he had Evans.

His time was poor, but so was Jerry Rice's time bad. I think Lee will be a better pro, in fact I think Lee fits this team like a glove. I also think I am in the minority, but I love Lee.

Though that Lee at 12 is too high. I would trade down if I wanted Lee.

over a player like Donald..

Deep red chip draft and Lee is NFL ready. I like Donald most thought so if he is there BANG.

In comment 11608725 stretch234 said:

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Here is the facts - In 2 years with Barkley, he threw the ball less times than Manziel threw in the 2 years he had Evans.

Right, but we aren't talking volume with Evans, we are talking about his size/speed combo which warrants a 12th pick should the Giants want to try to add that to their arsenal.

I suspect Lee will be a player NYG definitely likes but #12 is probably too high for him among this crop of talent.

These questions always pop up, you need to understand the value of the player and where that value stands among the rest. In my book, he's a player in the 20-32 range of this draft.

I agree that #12 is too high to take Lee. But I feel the same way about Evans.

Whoever suggested taking him with our 2nd rd pick, he won't (or shouldn't) be there at that point.

but as a player, he's definitely not a sudden, explosive athlete. He's elusive and instinctive and a good football player.

can't coach size and a big natural target, so teams are more likely to gamble on his upside, me thinks. But, I'd agree he's not a no-brainer at #12, imo.

I look at it this way. If there are any questions about this guy being a No 1 receiver, which there are, I am not using that 12th pick on him. I think there are legit concerns he can get off the LOS consistently in the NFL

With Lee's knee, I am not picking him at 12 either.

I think Lee will be better in the NFL

The only guy I take at 12, barring some real slips of others, is Donald. The difference of him vs the next guy is much larger than any other position.

If healthy, the best WR in the draft(yes, more impressive than Watkins). Following his career here the problem with him health. Not only the injuries he received, but the time he took to return from them. And always getting banged up with this or that kinna Nicks style. And there is some question of his desire for playing while being banged up. He does work hard and always said the right thing to the press so there's that.

Too much of a gamble at #12.

In comment 11608706 Mike in NY said:

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Though I like Cooks and Beckham Jr. more than Lee My concern is how much Barkley made Lee look better versus the opposite scenario because even with the injuries and poor QB play this year you would have expected at least similar YPC but that did not happen. He also had more drops this past season and that does cause some concern

He was playing injured most of the year. And he still was productive.

In comment 11608521 arcarsenal said:

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But I suspect I'm in the vast minority there.

I'm with you.

In comment 11608547 robbieballs2003 said:

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There is no doubt in my mind about that in addition to the way he fights for the ball. Eli would trust him with jump balls. Eli has done that in the past with some receivers that would, at the least, knock the ball away. He hasn't had that lately. With that said, Lee is a different type of receiver and would still provide our offense with some needed playmaking ability. The only issue is that I see Cruz, Randle, Jernigan and Lee as very similar WRs. While they aren't identical they are similar. There needs to be some diversity in your WR corps.

How are JJ and Randle similar?

In comment 11608898 GmenDynasty said:

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In comment 11608706 Mike in NY said: Quote: Though I like Cooks and Beckham Jr. more than Lee My concern is how much Barkley made Lee look better versus the opposite scenario because even with the injuries and poor QB play this year you would have expected at least similar YPC but that did not happen. He also had more drops this past season and that does cause some concern He was playing injured most of the year. And he still was productive.

I put Cooks and Becham right there with Lee too all three are great WR,this is an awesome draft for WR.

...Reese has proven that he doesn't care if a player has an injury history, but IMO he should. If a guy got hurt a lot in college, he likely will get hurt a lot in the pros. That's why I wouldn't invest a prime pick on Lee.

really didn't get to see him play a whole lot.

ooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk....

a WR with a knee injury? at 12?

not happening

is that he doesn't have much of a big body and he doesn't high the point with his hands and would rather body catch. I don't know if he'll ever be the type that can make contested catches in this league. Hes also had some turnovers in his career as well. There was inconsistency in that regard even in his phenomenal 2012 campaign

He's great at separating and looks like a RB after the catch. Hes extremely talented. I wouldn't mind if hes the pick, but injuries aren't the only concern with him. There's some things he can improve on

Lee has an injury history and comes with durability concerns. That shouldn't be hard to factor into his evaluations. I for one want the Giants to target players they are confident will be reliable. Potential means squat when it's on the inactive list sitting in the training room.

There is more than enough talent in the top 15 that JR can and should select a prospect with a clean bill of health and a profile that supports the belief they have the best chance possible to remain that way.

where we somehow ended up with Sammy Watkins.


Hopefully it's one of those dreams that ends up being a premonition.

In comment 11608521 arcarsenal said:

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But I suspect I'm in the vast minority there.

Evans is a nasty Blocker, and would be a big help on running downs. I don't think any of the other WRs available accent that aspect of their gameplay like Evans does.Other WRs may, in fact, get more yds or more TDs in a particular season. I think in Evans you have a known route runner with good hands/hand size, good reach, decent speed, a head for the game, blocking ability and an overall dependability factor that exceeds the other WRs in the draft.Someone like Lee may have a great ceiling, but a Player like Evans has a much ,much higher bottom.He is consistent, so I think he would be a better choice.

In comment 11608521 arcarsenal said:

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But I suspect I'm in the vast minority there.

Ya can't not like a guy who wins the Biletnikof Award as a sophomore with 118 for 1,721 and 14 TDs. But he has struggled with injuries and has a slight build, and I'm thinking with the 5'8" Jernigan, 6'0" Cruz, 6'0" Manningham, and 6'2" Randle, bringing on a 6'0" Lee might not be the best option for rounding out this WR squad when this deep WR draft includes a 6'5" Benjamin, 6'4" Bryant, 6'3" Matthews, 6'3" Moncrief, 6'3" Robinson, etc.

In comment 11609817 buljos said:

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In comment 11608521 arcarsenal said: Quote: But I suspect I'm in the vast minority there. Ya can't not like a guy who wins the Biletnikof Award as a sophomore with 118 for 1,721 and 14 TDs. But he has struggled with injuries and has a slight build, and I'm thinking with the 5'8" Jernigan, 6'0" Cruz, 6'0" Manningham, and 6'2" Randle, bringing on a 6'0" Lee might not be the best option for rounding out this WR squad when this deep WR draft includes a 6'5" Benjamin, 6'4" Bryant, 6'3" Matthews, 6'3" Moncrief, 6'3" Robinson, etc.

You don't just draft size to draft size. Now if the Giants have a similar grade on Evans or Ebron and they fall to 12, then by all means get the size guy. But if Lee is by far the BPA when we pick, he still makes a great choice. This is a guy who if he came out last year would have had a higher grade then every WR in this uber deep draft and a very close grade with Watkins. His grade would have surpassed the likes of Nicks and Maclin when they came out.

The Darren McFadden of WRs. If we are going the smaller, speed wr I would m7ch prefer Brandin Cooks.

Lee does not have a pro frame or stride.

Same silky smoothness, agility, acceleration and size.

Likely a beneficiary of a pass happy system

In comment 11610382 mamamia said:

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Likely a beneficiary of a pass happy system

Uh not even close. Have you even watched film of this kid?

In comment 11610382 mamamia said:

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Likely a beneficiary of a pass happy system

So you wouldn't want Ty Hilton or Desean Jaccson? He's bigger than both those guys and the same size as two of the best WR of the last 20 years: Isaac Bruce and Marvin Harrison.

you watch him in games and he just blows by people who have angles on him.

are the 2 best WRs in the draft. Lee is kind of like Manningham with a little more explosiveness and better route-running. He's a very good YAC guy. Really like him. I don't think he'd be a egregiously bad value pick at 12. Evans scares me. Benjamin could be great, but i'm not sure about his route-running.

Beckham could end up being the best in the lot imo.

I say "no." A 4.5 40 is slow for a WR. I'm not interested in excuses. I don't care who he blew by in college. Nope. If he's running a 4.5 now, at this age, then in 3 years he'll be running a 4.7. No thanks.

In comment 11610411 Ralph.C said:

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I say "no." A 4.5 40 is slow for a WR. I'm not interested in excuses. I don't care who he blew by in college. Nope. If he's running a 4.5 now, at this age, then in 3 years he'll be running a 4.7. No thanks.

Have you seen him run in real games?

In comment 11609964 GmenDynasty said:

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In comment 11609817 buljos said: Quote: In comment 11608521 arcarsenal said: Quote: But I suspect I'm in the vast minority there. Ya can't not like a guy who wins the Biletnikof Award as a sophomore with 118 for 1,721 and 14 TDs. But he has struggled with injuries and has a slight build, and I'm thinking with the 5'8" Jernigan, 6'0" Cruz, 6'0" Manningham, and 6'2" Randle, bringing on a 6'0" Lee might not be the best option for rounding out this WR squad when this deep WR draft includes a 6'5" Benjamin, 6'4" Bryant, 6'3" Matthews, 6'3" Moncrief, 6'3" Robinson, etc. You don't just draft size to draft size. Now if the Giants have a similar grade on Evans or Ebron and they fall to 12, then by all means get the size guy. But if Lee is by far the BPA when we pick, he still makes a great choice. This is a guy who if he came out last year would have had a higher grade then every WR in this uber deep draft and a very close grade with Watkins. His grade would have surpassed the likes of Nicks and Maclin when they came out.

Don't be disingenuous. Nobody has indicated all the tall WRs are just tall, except you herein. Ridiculous, and you know it. If Megatron were 5'10" instead of 6'5" he wouldn't be the best receiver in the NFL, period. But I guess you'd contend he'd still run a 4.35 40 so speed kills... sure... but we're actually talking about the Marquise Lee, who ran a blistering 4.52. But hey... you don't just draft speed for speed's sake, right? So maybe that 6'4" Martavis Bryant is just tall... oh... ran a 4.42. The 6'3" Jordan Matthews... oh... ran a 4.46. 6'2" Donte Moncrief... 4.40. Seems you not only just don't draft size for size, you also don't draft speed for speed, and when the size and speed are both better... well... you still go with the shorter, slower, slight of build, injury prone WR... because he's the BPA, right?

In comment 11610414 buljos said:

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In comment 11609964 GmenDynasty said: Quote: In comment 11609817 buljos said: Quote: In comment 11608521 arcarsenal said: Quote: But I suspect I'm in the vast minority there. Ya can't not like a guy who wins the Biletnikof Award as a sophomore with 118 for 1,721 and 14 TDs. But he has struggled with injuries and has a slight build, and I'm thinking with the 5'8" Jernigan, 6'0" Cruz, 6'0" Manningham, and 6'2" Randle, bringing on a 6'0" Lee might not be the best option for rounding out this WR squad when this deep WR draft includes a 6'5" Benjamin, 6'4" Bryant, 6'3" Matthews, 6'3" Moncrief, 6'3" Robinson, etc. You don't just draft size to draft size. Now if the Giants have a similar grade on Evans or Ebron and they fall to 12, then by all means get the size guy. But if Lee is by far the BPA when we pick, he still makes a great choice. This is a guy who if he came out last year would have had a higher grade then every WR in this uber deep draft and a very close grade with Watkins. His grade would have surpassed the likes of Nicks and Maclin when they came out. Don't be disingenuous. Nobody has indicated all the tall WRs are just tall, except you herein. Ridiculous, and you know it. If Megatron were 5'10" instead of 6'5" he wouldn't be the best receiver in the NFL, period. But I guess you'd contend he'd still run a 4.35 40 so speed kills... sure... but we're actually talking about the Marquise Lee, who ran a blistering 4.52. But hey... you don't just draft speed for speed's sake, right? So maybe that 6'4" Martavis Bryant is just tall... oh... ran a 4.42. The 6'3" Jordan Matthews... oh... ran a 4.46. 6'2" Donte Moncrief... 4.40. Seems you not only just don't draft size for size, you also don't draft speed for speed, and when the size and speed are both better... well... you still go with the shorter, slower, slight of build, injury prone WR... because he's the BPA, right?

Have you watched him run in games? His game speed is much faster than 4.5. He runs by people all the time. IMO its pretty foolish to privilege combine times in shorts over film against big time competition.

In comment 11610411 Ralph.C said:

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I say "no." A 4.5 40 is slow for a WR. I'm not interested in excuses. I don't care who he blew by in college. Nope. If he's running a 4.5 now, at this age, then in 3 years he'll be running a 4.7. No thanks.

LOL another guy who hasn't watched this kid on film. Jerry Rice ran a 4.6 ya know? Anquan Boldin ran a 4.7-4.8! Game speed bud game speed. Didnt Nicks run a 4.5 too?

Desean Jackson was a 2nd round pick. So I don't equate taking a small injury prone Lee in the 1st round to those situations. And lets not bring up Jerry Rice in any discussion about timed speed vs game speed. I have no doubt the little guy can pull away from these college DB's but I am not sure he can do that in the pros let alone stay healthy enough to play

In comment 11611365 mamamia said:

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Desean Jackson was a 2nd round pick. So I don't equate taking a small injury prone Lee in the 1st round to those situations. And lets not bring up Jerry Rice in any discussion about timed speed vs game speed. I have no doubt the little guy can pull away from these college DB's but I am not sure he can do that in the pros let alone stay healthy enough to play

I will concede this, i am more concerned about Lee's size/frame than Donalds. But I am not overly concerned about either.

Lee isn't that small and receivers alot smaller than him have had success in the NFL.

In comment 11611365 mamamia said:

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Desean Jackson was a 2nd round pick. So I don't equate taking a small injury prone Lee in the 1st round to those situations. And lets not bring up Jerry Rice in any discussion about timed speed vs game speed. I have no doubt the little guy can pull away from these college DB's but I am not sure he can do that in the pros let alone stay healthy enough to play

He's bigger than Jackson and Hilton. He's the same size as Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, both of whom were first rounders.

And personally I weight game tape evidence of speed vs top college secondaries with future NFL players over shorts track time at the combine.

In comment 11611293 GmenDynasty said:

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In comment 11610411 Ralph.C said: Quote: I say "no." A 4.5 40 is slow for a WR. I'm not interested in excuses. I don't care who he blew by in college. Nope. If he's running a 4.5 now, at this age, then in 3 years he'll be running a 4.7. No thanks. LOL another guy who hasn't watched this kid on film. Jerry Rice ran a 4.6 ya know? Anquan Boldin ran a 4.7-4.8! Game speed bud game speed. Didnt Nicks run a 4.5 too?

You don't know us... but you're comfortable enough being dismissive of whoever we are and whatever we've watched, because as long as we don't agree with you, we couldn't have watched this kid on film or watched any other WR in college. If we had, we'd agree with you. We don't, so we must not have watched film on Lee or anyone else... nope... not possible. Ok... you're right. He's faster than how fast he runs. He's taller than how tall he is, and anybody who'd draft someone bigger is just drafting big for big even if he's faster and has great moves and hands. Anybody who knows anything would only draft Lee as their WR, no matter how much he has been injured, no matter how slight his body is, no matter how short he is, no matter how slow he is, no matter how many other small WRs they've already got on their team... none of that matters. He's Lee, and either you agree he's right up there with the top WR in this draft, or you don't know anything and haven't watched anything. Must feel great inside that head of yours... all alone.