HYPOTHETICAL....If all 3 OT's are gone

let him sit the pines for two years then bid Eli adieu. Incoming?

.

....in that scenario, I wonder if they would consider Kouandjio.

Now that the false report of medical red flags has been cleared and it's rumored that they like him. Apparently experts think that he will go higher than anticipated come draft day.

of need then claim the player was the Best player available like they always do.

All could be possibilities. And you know what, I'd rather have any of those guys than Ebron. Add Fuller to the list as well (although not sure we need another CB at this point).

Very much like the Pugh pick

martin

Saban on Kouandjio's knee..."The teams we talked to, I can't find anybody that failed the guy on a physical," Saban said. "If you don't understand how people grade players in terms of NFL medical grades, it's not pass-fail. There are usually five categories that a guy falls in, and if you don't understand it you shouldn't be writing about it, because he didn't really fail."

...so he didn't fail his knee exam but people are concerned is how I read that. Sorry but I wouldn't draft a player @12 with an ACL history. This is a mammoth human being engaged in what amounts to hand to hand combat for a living. Most NFL players with an ACL repair suffer setbacks or re-injuries within a few years. The clock is ticking on the big guy....I'll pass on him @12.

is better than Martin. Lewan is a better athlete, but Martin is better football player.

But Martin would be a fine choice.

Now I'd say Donald. Or Martin.

I'd wager.

Lewan is the better prospect based on physical talent. Martin is a better technician right now but it's close. This isn't a static competition, with NFL coaching and his elite physical ability Lewan has a significantly higher ceiling than Martin imo. Dealing with the explosive edge rushers in the NFL requires top end tools. In that regard it's not close Lewan grades out as the far superior athlete. These players aren't finished products and part of what the FO does is evaluate who is going to have the better pro career.

Martin has added value in his versatility but projects to RT/OG imo...while Lewan will lock down arguably the most critical position after QB...the LT spot. So for me value wise it's a wash.

If I was to select between the two @12 I'd think hard...then select Taylor Lewan.

Rumor has it a team leaked that false report about the failed physical to try and get him to fall to their pick in the draft.

As far as ACL injuries to linemen, I think the recovery would be better for a player who doesn't have a speed element to his game. Put it this way' I'd rather have a reconstructed ACL in an offensive tackle as opposed to a wide receiver.

Dr. James Andrews performed the surgery and gave him full medical clearance. He wrote a note to all 32 NFL teams to medically clear Kouandjio. The wear patterns on his knee are almost the same as when he was a freshman at Alabama.

Read the link below. It really clears up the situation. His knee should be a non-issue.

The more I think about it, the more I think he could be the pick at #12. Rumor has it the team really likes him....
Link - ( New Window )

Or trade down

It is extremely close between him and Martin.

One thing I LOVE about Lewan is his mean streak. The guy finishes his blocks and he is one tough S.O.B.

I know talk is cheap, but he was quoted in an interview "I want to take a man from point A to point B against his will and put him in the dirt a dozen times." What a great quote.

Read the interview below. It will make you like Lewan....
Link - ( New Window )

I'm no doctor but it seems to me a knee carrying 325# battling with other behemoths for leverage and territory with guys flopping around your legs all day is more problematical than a WR but /shrug who knows. My position is draft a player @12 where it isn't a concern. There is no need to mess around with an ACL history in that spot....so don't.

but if not it would be between Martin, Cooks and Mosley

Martin has great versatility which I like.

Cooks is a consensus first rounder and I still think he's underrated. I agree that Watkins has the higher grade but Cooks is the most electric WR in this class and has great hands to go with it. He is going to be a terror on Sundays. He's a Desean Jackson clone with a better attitude and work ethic. God forbid he falls to the Eagles.

As long as his medical checks out I like Mosley because he has the athleticism to play OLB while Beason is here and learn from him as well. Once that time passes I think he can make the transition to MLB and be a stud there for years to come.

So we're sitting on Bridgewater, Manziel... JR will get calls, and he'll trade down for an extra 3rd and 5th. A Guard with the 12th was never value, but later in the 1st he can get value with Xavier Su'a-Filo to be tutored by Snee as his eventual All Pro replacement, then pick up one of those 6'2"+ fast skilled WRs in the 2nd (there are about a hand full of em), and a descent receiving and blocking stud TE in the 3rd (Niklas if he falls, or Fiedorowicz), and a starting caliber Center in the 3rd... not Richburg unfortunately, but definitely Stork and others will be there... because anybody who thinks J.D. Walton is a starting caliber Center is entirely ignoring his record (last full season 2011 graded by PFF as WORST center in the LEAGUE, then went down early 2012). Moving down in this deepest draft in 10 years (per Mayock) would be optimal.

make Mosley BPA and fill out our LB crew nicely. He can play anywhere and be our MLB down the road.

drafting scrubs like Christian Ponder and Jake Locker... someone is going to take J. Football before 12.

If the draft fell that way, I would happily take Martin or Mosley. I'm fairly certain that Martin played better than all but 1 (at the most) of the tackles in 2013. The others just have more projectable physiques and athleticism. Mosley would probably be good at WLB from day 1.

In comment 11609762 TMS said:

Quote:

make Mosley BPA and fill out our LB crew nicely. He can play anywhere and be our MLB down the road.

How many years has it been since the Giants drafted a Linebacker in the 1st round?

A. 15 years
B. 20 years
C. 25 years
D. 30 years

...answer is... D... and Mosley is not going to break that string when the defense was 8th in the league, got a boost in FA, yet the offense was "broken" due to pitiful pass protection and blocking. The blocking and pass protection is still broken... Beatty wasn't real good before he broke his leg. Snee is a soldier and one of the all time great Giants, but is anybody taking bets he'll go all 16? Baas was replaced with Walton who the last time he played a full season was terrible (PFF grade Worst Center in League). If all 3 OTs are gone and both Johnny Football and Bridgewater are sitting at 12, JR must trade down to fix blocking and pass protection. He needs one of the best Right Guards in the draft, and he needs a top Center who can relieve Walton of his misery should Dallas move up and get Aaron Donald... because he'll ruin Walton and Snee... twice.

Not to follow in everyone's foot steps but Martin is the pick to me if Donald is off the board. Now if we can trade back and still get Martin, I would be even happier. Bring in the draft!

I have with Lewan is the technique thing. LTs do not beat athletic ends with athleticism. They beat them with technique and smarts. However the thing I love about him is his attitude. At the same rate, Kyle Turley had an attitude that u loved in an OT but that got him in trouble too.

The thing that is great about Martin, is his versatility as well as great polish. We can give Beatty another chance as a LT seeing as how he is under contract while playing Martin somewhere else for the first year.

Very interesting issue to have.

think in that situation, you're going to get a lot of calls, so you probably can trade down, even though the draft is deep.

If not, I'd take Martin, but I think the Giants would take Barr or CK. I really don't want either. Barr is a tweener. CK still has a questionable knee IMO. Between those two I'd take Barr, but again, I think in this situation a trade down would really be possible.

..

but i don't think he can

so, then you would be taking a Guard at 12, and a guard who is versatile rather than dominant

i would definitely look to trade down since Martin will definitely last until 19. but if I had to make the choice, i would take Martin but would not be excited about it.

Martin, Barr or trade down. I'd prefer to trade down to the 20 range if they can grab another second rounder but that doesn't seem likely so they'd probably have to take one of those guys. And like most people, I think it would be hard to take Barr knowing it could be pretty difficult turning him into a 4-3 DE.

...Martin.

Next question.

Alternative.

Johnny M. at QB because we will need a QB to compensate for the worst pass protecting line in the NFL.

Let him scramble, while Eli watches from the sidelines.

All could take Martin before MIA at #19

Is a scenario possible that they put him and Pugh together on the left side for the next 5-10 years and move Schwartz and Beatty or whomever to right side. Pugh and Martin on Eli's blind side might have pro bowl written all over it for these two

Both guys have strong college resumes. Odds are both go in the top fifteen picks, probably within a handful of one another. The question is what do you value more? Lewan is an uber athletic LT that can play on the blindside. Martin is a tech savvy G/T combo that can likely play 4 OL positions well but LT is a stretch imo.

Beatty worries most Giants fans and the guys inside the building may be losing some Zzzzz's on his account as well. Even if as some say 'we're gonna give him another shot there with that contract...so what...he's oh so cuttable after this season. Lewan can take over whenever he outstrips the incumbent. For that reason I'd go with Lewan. He plays the more coveted position.

Snee is on his last legs with Schwartz the only plus starter inside. Walton is the mystery man what will he bring to the table. Can Jerry rehab his image as well as his game? Martin helps address many of these questions.

In the final analysis I'd go with Lewan simple because he plays the more coveted position where good ones are hard to come. He'll be a good one.

...well played, Sir.

Nicely done.

He would have been a top 5 pick and ranked similar to Watkins if he came out a year earlier.

In this uber deep draft we'll still be able to Grab a plug and play OL @43

In comment 11609952 GmenDynasty said:

Quote:

He would have been a top 5 pick and ranked similar to Watkins if he came out a year earlier. In this uber deep draft we'll still be able to Grab a plug and play OL @43

Lee is an excellent receiver, and on his own absent any consideration of team receiving corps balance, a great pickup. But Lee at 6'0" is as tall or taller than all the rest of the Giants legitimate receiving corps except Randle at 6'2", and he's a bit on the slight of build side. When there's the 6'5" Kelvin Benjamin, 6'4" Martavis Bryant, 6'3" Jordan Matthews, 6'3" Donte Moncrief, 6'3" Allen Robinson... just thinking red zone targets ala Plaxico... the Giants have a full house of 6'0" slight build receivers.

you can't dismiss this season for Lee...he played tough through some dings when other guys might have shut it down but it did expose a potential weakness...durability. I'm leery of anyone @12 that may have issues staying on the field. We have to get consistent production from this draft class sooner than later if we want to rebound from last years debacle. With the talent on the board through twelve picks I'd be hard pressed to justify Lee that early.

In comment 11609904 raever said:

Quote:

Both guys have strong college resumes. Odds are both go in the top fifteen picks, probably within a handful of one another. The question is what do you value more? Lewan is an uber athletic LT that can play on the blindside. Martin is a tech savvy G/T combo that can likely play 4 OL positions well but LT is a stretch imo. Beatty worries most Giants fans and the guys inside the building may be losing some Zzzzz's on his account as well. Even if as some say 'we're gonna give him another shot there with that contract...so what...he's oh so cuttable after this season. Lewan can take over whenever he outstrips the incumbent. For that reason I'd go with Lewan. He plays the more coveted position. Snee is on his last legs with Schwartz the only plus starter inside. Walton is the mystery man what will he bring to the table. Can Jerry rehab his image as well as his game? Martin helps address many of these questions. In the final analysis I'd go with Lewan simple because he plays the more coveted position where good ones are hard to come. He'll be a good one.

Beatty earned his big contract because he played well... if and when he was protected. He needs inside protection from the LG. BFF graded Boothe out well when he was steady at LG, and the Giants had more than one good pass pro RB and a good pass pro TE. But when Beatty was left unprotected... Boothe to Center, good blocking RBs and TE gone in FA, then he didn't operate well out there on that LT island. Maybe that's a way of saying Beatty's the ultimate team lineman -- he operates quite well when he's a member of a functional blocking / pass pro team. Take that away, and he's not good. I therefore predict with JR's FA of a starting LG from the Chiefs, and a good pass pro RB from the Raiders, and a good pass pro TE from the Seahawks, Beatty's protection will afford him confidence... we'll see the Beatty pre-2013 again this season.

Martin. Nothing to it.

but I wonder if we couldn't do a little better here. Not in terms of picking someone else, but with the QB's still here, are we sure we can't pick up an extra pick by sliding back even just a little and still get our guy (Martin)?

Taking a look at the draft order and who may be an interested trade partner, consider the Jets - at #18 wanting to get Johnny football - maybe they worry the Cowboys are interested just ahead of them and decide to move up. Can they give us their second? Or maybe their third? I would much prefer to slide back, pick up the guy we want (Martin) and get the Jets second round pick as well. In fact, as much as I like Martin, I think I'd rather have #18 and #49 giving us three picks in the top fifty, even if it means missing out on Martin.

Or better yet - trade back with the Cowboys so they can pick up Manziel. Jerry might see an opportunity to get his QB of the future and not want to risk losing him. Moving up just four spots would likely cost them a third rounder - and by moving back just four spots leave a very good chance that Martin is still on the board. Dallas owns the 78th pick of the draft - there will be good talent to be had there and very little risk of losing out on Martin by sliding back. The Bears and Steelers are not expected to go OL in the first, and the Rams really need a receiver.

Trade back and still get Manziel if you can Reese.

I meant, trade back and still get Martin! Typed Manziel too many times in that thread...

Only option.

Giants have at least two nice choices and probably more. You know they like some player(s) we don't know about. Someone with sick measurable -- maybe a small school guy.. Whatever. But Barr is a big time talent and prospect. They don't need to trade down if they like Barr. He won't last till 13 or 14 most likely.

You could sell me on Cooks. Not Barr, not Ebron. Trade back to like 20 (Cards might wanna a QB) grab the 2nd rounder in exchange, take Sua'Filo (or Martin if he's still there....Miami might go for Koundijo), then in the 2nd, take two of Niklas, Richburg and Davante Adams. Go D line depth and T prospects in rounds 3-7.

As much as id like one of these receivers though, I have to say I would prefer to get the O line fixed and grab a TE capable of mauling LBs and catching some balls up the seam. When you think about it, our projected receivers are not THAT bad. Same with D line.

so it is imperative to bring in one or two quality big speedy WR's. I think they will address the TE situation via the draft or the waiver wire

In comment 11610005 buljos said:

Quote:

In comment 11609952 GmenDynasty said: Quote: He would have been a top 5 pick and ranked similar to Watkins if he came out a year earlier. In this uber deep draft we'll still be able to Grab a plug and play OL @43 Lee is an excellent receiver, and on his own absent any consideration of team receiving corps balance, a great pickup. But Lee at 6'0" is as tall or taller than all the rest of the Giants legitimate receiving corps except Randle at 6'2", and he's a bit on the slight of build side. When there's the 6'5" Kelvin Benjamin, 6'4" Martavis Bryant, 6'3" Jordan Matthews, 6'3" Donte Moncrief, 6'3" Allen Robinson... just thinking red zone targets ala Plaxico... the Giants have a full house of 6'0" slight build receivers.

Lol and we won a Super Bowl with Cruz Mario and Nicks.Not exactly the biggest of receivers ya know?

Thats kinda like saying the Heat cant win cuz they got no size!

Good is good. Lee is a great talent and would be amazing with Eli.

In comment 11609383 TheMick7 said:

Quote:

.

Martin owned Donald at the senoir bowl so he is a legit pick at 12.He was the only person to handle Donald in one on ones and is a great leader ,I would love to get Martin regardless of scenarios.

In comment 11609893 Earl the goat said:

Quote:

Is a scenario possible that they put him and Pugh together on the left side for the next 5-10 years and move Schwartz and Beatty or whomever to right side. Pugh and Martin on Eli's blind side might have pro bowl written all over it for these two

I love your thinking there and then get Niklas in the second whis is a monster blocking tight end and get our center in the third and then we are set with a wr in the fourth.

The only non-tackle I want at #12 is Sammy Watkins (I have a strange feeling he'll be there for us, but I can't let myself dwell on this too much).

Martin gives us what we need - excellent line play, versatility at four of the five OL positions, and flexibility to go TE or WR in the 2nd Round.

It's his best position. He also projects well to RT...LT not so much. You don't pass on Lewan if you have the belief he is a franchise LT. Do the Giants fall into that category? We'll find out on Draft Day if he's even ob the board(doubtful). Sure as shit Will Beatty won't stop you from picking him if that's the case.

In comment 11610854 George said:

Quote:

The only non-tackle I want at #12 is Sammy Watkins (I have a strange feeling he'll be there for us, but I can't let myself dwell on this too much). Martin gives us what we need - excellent line play, versatility at four of the five OL positions, and flexibility to go TE or WR in the 2nd Round.

I seriously doubt at but this draft is a crazy one. if he somehow is incredibly there. We are stumbling all over ourselves all the way to the podium to pick him