...please note Colin's qualifying statement:
"... the players slotted to the respective teams in this mock are not who we would pick, but reflect our best educated guess as to what that particular team is likely to do at that point."
He has the Giants going:
#12 Eric Ebron, TE, North Carolina
#43 Kareem Martin, DE, North Carolina
#74 Cory Latimore, WR, Indiana
IMO, GBN's mock drafts are as "smart" and as interesting -- if not more so -- as any other mock drafts out there. And this one (for the Giants) more or less coincides with Colin's remarks on BBI not to long ago.
IMO, I really like the above 3 players (a lot), but I see the Giants going in an entirely different direction.
Staying strictly with this mock draft from GBN, here is who I'm guessing the Giants would select (i.e., only selecting from those players still available after #12, #43, #74):
Round 1 Taylor Lewan, OT, Michigan (#15)
Round 2 Marcus Martin, C, USC (#56)
Round 3 Troy Niklas, TE, Notre Dame (#75)
THREE-ROUND 2014 PROJECTION - (
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...yep, definitely Cody!
I'd take Martin or Lewan in that scenario in rd 1 and Bryant from Clemson in Rd 3. Then the best DE, OL, or TE in Rd 3
A death sentence for Eli
We have said that before (see 2012 draft). The Giants brought in a lot on the OL and at CB in Free Agency in part to not have to be locked into certain specific positions early in the draft in lieu of taking a player from their highest tier that is still available
Joekel, Lane Johnson, Eric Fisher, none of them played very well as rookies.
Many people feel Pugh was the best rookie tackle. I think the Giants will take an OL early (first few rounds), but if they don't I won't think the sky is falling.
What was Colin's last draft? Was it Tuitt in the first for the Giants?
Joekel, Lane Johnson, Eric Fisher, none of them played very well as rookies.
Many people feel Pugh was the best rookie tackle. I think the Giants will take an OL early (first few rounds), but if they don't I won't think the sky is falling.
What was Colin's last draft? Was it Tuitt in the first for the Giants?
pj,
This tackle class is considered much better than last year. Guys like Matthews, Robinson, Lewan and even Martin are thought of as better prospects than the guys you mentioned. Also, if I am not mistaken, the OT last year were light and more finesse guys which could be the reason they struggled.
as for rookies helping a lot see Chicago from last year. The talent on the OL still needs a major infusion. Walton is no lock to come and and be a good starter. They've added is Schwartz who honestly has been a career journeyman type. Jerry is a loser and not even a lock to make the roster.
The Giants can not draft an OL in the first three rounds and still have a good draft.
I don't think they'll do that, but they can.
secondarily, there is no sure things in this or any draft, so I don't feel drafting an OL guarantees you anything.
last year 3 of the top 4 picks and 8 of the top 20 picks were OL, and 5 of the 8 were tackles. Was that really a weak draft for OL?
Joekel, Lane Johnson, Eric Fisher, none of them played very well as rookies.
Many people feel Pugh was the best rookie tackle. I think the Giants will take an OL early (first few rounds), but if they don't I won't think the sky is falling.
What was Colin's last draft? Was it Tuitt in the first for the Giants?
Agreed, although they apparently like CK, despite some possible problems with his knee. If they take him, I hope it's after a trade down. He isn't worth the #12 pick.
I also don't see Latimer lasting until our third round pick.
The Giants can not draft an OL in the first three rounds and still have a good draft.
I don't think they'll do that, but they can.
secondarily, there is no sure things in this or any draft, so I don't feel drafting an OL guarantees you anything.
last year 3 of the top 4 picks and 8 of the top 20 picks were OL, and 5 of the 8 were tackles. Was that really a weak draft for OL?
You couldn't be more wrong. Obviously thats an opinion but if Beatty doesn't bounce back they will need a T. Who is the long term solution for Snee at G whose health has deteriorated astoundingly fast? Walton is no lock to bounce back.
If Reese doesn't drat an OL in the first 3 rounds in a very deep OL draft he should be fired the minute the draft is over. And I don't mean that as hyperbole. He is the main reason the OL is a mess.
And keep in mind that 2004 OL was widely regarded as the worst in the NFL. and the Giants didn't spend every possible draft resource on the line (ok a little hyperbolic) but that's kind of what some of you are suggesting.
I'm not saying OL isn't a priority, and I'm not saying I have faith that Walton is a starting center after two years off.
I am saying that I won't pretend to be omniscient and state that drafting specific positions in a given draft is a necessity.
we aren't running Tom Coughlin's stone age offense anymore
you CANNOT run a WCO without a good receiving TE
Two glaring errors to me is not addressing the O-line whatsoever and overdrafting Martin based on the Giants coveting pass rushers.
Back to the drawing board Colin...for all our sakes.
we aren't running Tom Coughlin's stone age offense anymore
you CANNOT run a WCO without a good receiving TE
I think you are overrating Ebron just a tad. I want to like him, but I question his effort as a blocker and he does seem to shy away a bit from contact not to mention his hands can be shaky at times. If we are getting a starting TE I want one who can also block because a TE that doesn't block limits what you can do schematically
[quote] with one OL the Giants acquired in the draft who was a top 3 round pick (Snee was a 2nd), but now Reese should be fired if he doesn't draft one in the top 3. Sure.
And keep in mind that 2004 OL was widely regarded as the worst in the NFL. and the Giants didn't spend every possible draft resource on the line (ok a little hyperbolic) but that's kind of what some of you are suggesting.
I'm not saying OL isn't a priority, and I'm not saying I have faith that Walton is a starting center after two years off.
I am saying that I won't pretend to be omniscient and state that drafting specific positions in a given draft is a necessity. [/quote
Well what round was Mckenzie drafted. Oh and Reese had to go out and spend on him. where a guy is drafted wouldn't be an issue if the Gianta line hasn't sucked balls. Reese's should have been fired last year
Yeah. Maybe we should draft more Clint Sintims Travis Beckums Nardens and Marvin Austin types while Max Unger helped Seattle win a Super Bowl. Gotta give Reese credit though. When Acosinwas the GM it was all Jerry behind the scenes and now whenhe misses it's all Ross.
George Young actually was responsible for building the IL that helped the Giants win w Jumbo and Roberts. Sorry. I'm of the mind that bargain basement shopping has killed the Giants. Reese has has 1 good OL addition in 7 years. One and that's Pugh who is still only a 2nd year guy. Sorry of I don't trust the guy or your opinions on ignoring that grouping.
So, my point is where Schwartz was drafted doesn't matter either.
There are many ways to build an OL. When you have a QB in his prime, I'm fine with signing veteran free agents (like Schwartz and Walton).
I'm not saying the free agent activity will prevent a OL early in the draft, but I am saying it will mean the Giants don't HAVE to take an OL there if you get the distinction.
If Snee falters are you satisfied with Jerry as a starter?
If Beatty struggles...again...who is the answer? If Pugh slides left is Brown the answer at RT? He doesn't seem the type to excel there. IMO it's a priority.
but my thought process is that a GM will do the best in a draft where they don't have to draft a specific position. I'm not talking about the mythical BPA, I'm just suggesting having flexibility and options.
I don't want to have to draft certain positions or feel like every single hole has to be filled with a long-term solution.
And I don't want to seem like I am minimizing it, I believe the OL is the key to the offense, but I also think they only need to be good enough, not great for the Giants to be successful.
Martin
Gilbert
in that order
for our 2nd round pick I would sprint to the podium to draft Allen Robinson
for our 3rd round pick if we took Donald, I would go C Travis Swanson
if we took Martin I would go DT/DE Will Sutton
So my ideal scenarios would be:
OT/OG/C Martin
WR Robinson
DT/DE Sutton
or
DT Donald
WR Robinson
C Swanson
The gap between production and potential should tilt in favor of production, particularly when picking so high and when filling so many holes.
I'm saying it depends who is available.
I would not go into a draft or I should say I would not want to go into a draft and say "I have to draft X position in the first n rounds"
If the Giants do not draft an OL in the first three rounds I will not say f-that the season is over before it started.
If they do draft an OL then great, I hope it works out.
My point is, and maybe this seems like being on the fence, but it's not, I want flexibility and options and I feel Reese has used free agency to provide him that luxury (this year).
I'm curious what people who are advocating Oline early at all costs think about the current state of the pass rush. Everyone mentions Beatty but isn't JPP in the same boat (albeit with a much higher upside)? And what about Moore, he's at least as big a question mark as Snee, only younger with less experience. My point is that the pass rush is just as important as the Oline and has just as many questions. Even if JPP comes back to his old self he'll just be doubled/tripled all day long unless Moore makes a huge leap forward.
They will take the best possible player they can who can fit one of their needs. That "need" may not even be this year. We lose a number of DB's after this season & I could easily see the Giants taking the best DB in the draft at #12.
In round 2, someone with a first round grade could fall to them. Say Benjamin falls, they may scoop him up and a similar thing could happen in round 3. They could get 3 very good players in 3 rounds and it should be considered a very good draft despite not taking any OL.
#43 WR...there are three guys there I'd be excited about. Matthews, Robinson and Moncrief. I've stated a preference for addressing the X spot in our WR corps and they are suited to it.
#74 TE Troy Niklas- imo he won't last this long but it is a deep draft class so it's possible. I'd be very excited to land this guy imo he's got a chance to be the best at the position in this class. Plays a complete game and is a legit weapon for McAdoo to utilize as I believe he would like to.
I am hoping that's the case. If we wanted more of the same type of TE I think we would have gone out and signed TEs. I would guess that BM would want to increase the role of the TE. However, we don't know what he wants. I am hoping he does, and if Lewan or Martin are gone, I'd like Ebron as our pick.
I'm right there with you in hoping Mcadoo is intent on revamping our style at TE but agree we won't know until it happens.
If Snee falters are you satisfied with Jerry as a starter?
If Beatty struggles...again...who is the answer? If Pugh slides left is Brown the answer at RT? He doesn't seem the type to excel there. IMO it's a priority.
Couldn't you say that about a lot of positions.... I am not satisfied they've done enough to turn it around at _______
Please insert
A)TE
B)WR
C)DT
D)DE/Passrush
E)LB
F)OT
G)OG
H)C
We need still need more in most places and OL is pretty deep in this draft. Bryan Stork or Gabe Watts would be great OL to game on day 3.
I would go with
Lewan
Center from USC
Cyril Richardson
Trade up and grab a TE in the 4.
Fix the dam O-Line.
1). Aaron Donald, DT. Pitt. This is a no brainer!
2). C.J. Fiedorowicz, TE. Iowa. A big TE that can block and catch.
3). Donte Moncief, WR. Ole Miss. I just hope that he is still there. Best WR on the board if not.
For TE I am loving Fiedorowicz in the 4th round.
True, he was a FA, but the Giants paid a boat-load for a very proficient right tackle, and they paid him like he was a very high draft pick. And he played like a very high draft pick (even though originally I think he went in the 4th Round.)
Here's the rub.
The Giants HAVE NOT brought in a McK with the current crop of FA offensive linemen. Not close.
And putting Pugh to the side for a moment, there is NOTHING on our current offensive line that matches the quality of our former right side of Snee (a very high #2) and McK (who played like he was a high draft pick.)
We're not close to that.
We need more quality along the entire line. It's at least a 2-year draft process, and Jerry Reese knows that better than anyone else since he neglected this unit for years in the Draft.
Not anymore.
He will begin making amends this coming May.
Joekel, Lane Johnson, Eric Fisher, none of them played very well as rookies.
Many people feel Pugh was the best rookie tackle. I think the Giants will take an OL early (first few rounds), but if they don't I won't think the sky is falling.
What was Colin's last draft? Was it Tuitt in the first for the Giants?
I think JR and Coughlin do think the sky's falling at Center. J.D. Walton last played a snap in early 2012. Before that, he was rated the WORST center in the LEAGUE after his last full season in 2011 by PFF. That's the starting Center? Really? Walton is an insurance policy, and if he can get his form back after a season and a half out of football, he'd be the Worst center in football. He must be much better than he was the last time he played a full season... and what exactly would lead anyone to believe that's to be the case? Depth chart shows Dallas Reynolds as backup... the Eagles perennial practice squad JAG who eventually was cut. No... they need a Center, and a rookie should start at Center if he beats out Walton for the job, which might not be all that tough for a Richburg to do.
Your limiting your talent intake by insisting on drafting 2 lineman within the first 2-3 rounds. What if the value isn't there? Fuck it? Draft em anyway? No thanks.
But there ain't gonna be any winning football with so much up in the air with our offensive line.
As I said before... Jerry Reese neglected this unit big time for many years in the Draft, but now he's gonna play catch up this May and next.
He will devote premium draft picks to the offensive line.
Depend upon it.
And, if by some outside chance, Jerry Reese doesn't force the next two drafts that way, then you will see the following:
1) Bad, ugly, losing football;
2) A heart-warming, farewell send-off for Jerry Reese.
However, what Reese has done in FA is to give the team options and competitions in camp.
My main point is and was, they don't HAVE to force drafting positions, that leads to reaching or missing out on other maybe more impactful prospects.
Beatty is the key, needs to be fixed. if Beatty can't be fixed not sure how successful the OL will be. Drafting a tackle in the first round this year, with Beatty still on the roster, hurts this team in the short-term in so many ways (maybe even in the long term).
... I understand what you're saying.
The interesting thing about Jerry Reese Drafts is that -- with the recent exception of Prince -- practically all of his First Round Selections have NEVER been about "pure" value.
He -- like most other GMs -- combine value/need in one player, and they do so by grouping everyone in tiers.
Jerry Reese most often selects THAT player within his highest tier who also fills a vital need. Again, the exception was Prince.