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Graziano: Five lingering questions: Wide receiver

sphinx : 4/8/2014 1:02 pm
Excerpt ...
Randle is the top candidate to step up and fill the role they hoped Nicks would fill last year. Randle hasn't yet shown the kind of ability Nicks showed when he was at the top of his game, but the Giants hope that a third year of development will elevate Randle to that level.

The ESPN article ... - ( New Window )
..................  
sphinx : 4/8/2014 1:05 pm : link
Ebenezer Samuel ‏@ebenezersamuel 22m
Remember this name: Martavis Bryant. Clemson's other WR met with NYG at Combine. May not go at 12, but a round later? Superb athlete.

how many  
jintz4life : 4/8/2014 1:07 pm : link
receivers can show the same ability nicks did at the top of his game
There is a number of guys that could be good picks at 43  
BillT : 4/8/2014 1:15 pm : link
Bryant, Moncrief, Adams, Robinson, Matthews. And that's after the top 6/7 WRs are off the board. That's why Donald would be great at 12 because they can still get a very good WR at 43.
My ideal draft  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 1:20 pm : link
Rd 1. Donald
Rd 2. Bitonio/Kuandijo (if he drops)
Rd 3. Martavius Bryant
Rd 4. Crocket Gilmore
This draft will be so important  
AnishPatel : 4/8/2014 1:20 pm : link
than I can remember in past years. This off season has been exciting thus far.

RR is a UFA next year. Mario is on a 1 year deal, and JJ is a UFA, after this season. So this is his contract year. Only WR we have locked down is Cruz.

I need OL still and I hope we go TE and WR in this years draft. Keep adding talent to this offense.
RE: ..................  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 1:21 pm : link
In comment 11611050 sphinx said:
Quote:
Ebenezer Samuel þ@ebenezersamuel 22m
Remember this name: Martavis Bryant. Clemson's other WR met with NYG at Combine. May not go at 12, but a round later? Superb athlete.


With how deep this draft is overall and then at WR, Bryant may make it to 73.
..  
DanMetroMan : 4/8/2014 1:22 pm : link
While Watkins is considered an immediate impact player for whichever team he ends up on, Bryant is considered a second- or third-round pick and has a little more to prove, but his upside could be off the charts.

Bryant measures in at 6-foot-4, 211 pounds and wowed a lot of NFL people at February’s NFL Scouting Combine when he ran a 4.42-second 40-yard dash (fifth best among receivers) and jumped 39 inches in the vertical.

“It was good to show people what I could do,” Bryant told Detroitlions.com during his visit. “Some people though I’d run a 4.5, but I always knew I was fast. It was just good to get out there and showcase what I can do along with all the other great players out there.”

Those kinds of numbers had to open some NFL executives’ eyes on a 6-4, 211 frame.

Bryant can still improve his route running and work on catching the football with his hands more consistently, but he’s an intriguing prospect.

Asked what the best aspect of his game his, Bryant just smiled and said, “The deep ball.”

That’s not a big surprise considering his frame and his speed. He had a career average of 22.1 yards per catch at Clemson and certainly looks like someone who can stretch a defense with a 9 route or fade.

Bryant may have flown under the radar playing alongside Watkins, but he is excited to for all the success his former teammate has had and is ready to have some of his own at the next level.

“I did what I could control,” Bryant said of his time at Clemson. “Sammy is going to be Sammy regardless. Me and Sammy are close and I’ve been happy for him ever since I was a freshman.”
Link - ( New Window )
RE: This draft will be so important  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 1:23 pm : link
In comment 11611084 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
than I can remember in past years. This off season has been exciting thus far.

RR is a UFA next year. Mario is on a 1 year deal, and JJ is a UFA, after this season. So this is his contract year. Only WR we have locked down is Cruz.

I need OL still and I hope we go TE and WR in this years draft. Keep adding talent to this offense.


I know you don't love it Anish but we can go OL/WR/TE rds 2-4 and still pick up some really good players while adding a once in a decade passrushing talent at DT in Donald on defense. Its maxiumizing BPA in Rd. 1 while also drafting to the strengths of each round thereafter.
Bryant isn't lasting to 73  
BillT : 4/8/2014 1:25 pm : link
He'd be a steal at 43
Nicks was Nicks year 1.  
mattlawson : 4/8/2014 1:33 pm : link
How is Randle going to be Nicks year 3?
RE: Nicks was Nicks year 1.  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 1:42 pm : link
In comment 11611104 mattlawson said:
Quote:
How is Randle going to be Nicks year 3?


Randle is not a Hakeem Nicks level (when healthy) WR. We all forget just how dominant Nicks is since he is injury prone. His playoffs during the Super Bowl year was absolutely mind blowing.

Should Randle reach his max potential he should be a decent to very good WR (even a decent #1) but likely not a great one. That would still be enough with Cruz and JJ to have a decent to very good receiving corps should he finally become that next year.

GD,  
AnishPatel : 4/8/2014 1:49 pm : link
In comment 11611089 GmenDynasty said:
Quote:
In comment 11611084 AnishPatel said:


Quote:


than I can remember in past years. This off season has been exciting thus far.

RR is a UFA next year. Mario is on a 1 year deal, and JJ is a UFA, after this season. So this is his contract year. Only WR we have locked down is Cruz.

I need OL still and I hope we go TE and WR in this years draft. Keep adding talent to this offense.



I know you don't love it Anish but we can go OL/WR/TE rds 2-4 and still pick up some really good players while adding a once in a decade passrushing talent at DT in Donald on defense. Its maxiumizing BPA in Rd. 1 while also drafting to the strengths of each round thereafter.


If he is that good, you should prepare yourself in him not being there at 12. Also, do you see him as a 3 down DT or a specialist coming in on 3rd down to rush the passer?

I can see the Lions drafting him since they have not picked up the option on Nick F. After all since people been touting Donald, I can see them drafting him and sticking him next to Suh.
Yes 3 down player  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 1:56 pm : link
in that next to Hankins he will be OK as well as some movement to DE on rush downs (as we did occasionally with Canty and Tuck). As Boylehart said this kid is a Category 4 hurricane!

Secondly this draft is loaded up top. Its the only reason a guy like Donald could even sniff 12. The height thing will only scare enough teams away that can have a guy like Mack,Watkins,Clowney,Gilbert etc who have slightly more appropriate size for their respective positions.
RE: GD,  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 1:57 pm : link
In comment 11611150 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
In comment 11611089 GmenDynasty said:


Quote:


In comment 11611084 AnishPatel said:


Quote:


than I can remember in past years. This off season has been exciting thus far.

RR is a UFA next year. Mario is on a 1 year deal, and JJ is a UFA, after this season. So this is his contract year. Only WR we have locked down is Cruz.

I need OL still and I hope we go TE and WR in this years draft. Keep adding talent to this offense.



I know you don't love it Anish but we can go OL/WR/TE rds 2-4 and still pick up some really good players while adding a once in a decade passrushing talent at DT in Donald on defense. Its maxiumizing BPA in Rd. 1 while also drafting to the strengths of each round thereafter.



If he is that good, you should prepare yourself in him not being there at 12. Also, do you see him as a 3 down DT or a specialist coming in on 3rd down to rush the passer?

I can see the Lions drafting him since they have not picked up the option on Nick F. After all since people been touting Donald, I can see them drafting him and sticking him next to Suh.


As for the Lions ,could happen, but they need the CB much more than the DT. Farley will still get a shot to prove himself this year.
I like Bryant a lot  
chris r : 4/8/2014 2:05 pm : link
Only problem is he may need some time and Eli is no spring chicken.
GD,  
AnishPatel : 4/8/2014 2:08 pm : link
Maybe but remember, Donald is a one in a decade player, so why wouldn't they draft him? They can get a CB in later rounds, and draft Donald and stick him next to Suh. Wouldn't that be nice to see?
Mara said  
ChicagoMarty : 4/8/2014 2:32 pm : link
they will focus on the O for the Draft

This draft is wr rich

If JR drafts into the strength of the draft than we could be looking at picking up two wrs and that would be fine with me

I could see taking an OL with #12, a wr with either #43 or #74 and a TE with one or the other than taking a wr with one of two Fifth rounders

CBS Draft Scout has Cody Latimer rated the #25 wr in the draft and we know the Jints have some interest in him. There are several others rated behind Latimer that will make it in the NFL imo

Wr is definitely an exciting position in this draft and I bellieve the Giants will strike it rich
RE: GD,  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 2:49 pm : link
In comment 11611188 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
Maybe but remember, Donald is a one in a decade player, so why wouldn't they draft him? They can get a CB in later rounds, and draft Donald and stick him next to Suh. Wouldn't that be nice to see?


LOL I do feel he is that good Anish. But guess what? when you get to the top of any draft (especially one with this type of talent) teams want the 'perfect' prospect. It is why he has a shot to make it to us. If I was one of would be tempted to take the likes of a few Qbs, Clowney,Mack,or one of the 3OTs, maybe Gilbert.
*If I was one of the top teams  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 2:51 pm : link
should read
GD,  
AnishPatel : 4/8/2014 2:59 pm : link
In comment 11611277 GmenDynasty said:
Quote:
In comment 11611188 AnishPatel said:


Quote:


Maybe but remember, Donald is a one in a decade player, so why wouldn't they draft him? They can get a CB in later rounds, and draft Donald and stick him next to Suh. Wouldn't that be nice to see?



LOL I do feel he is that good Anish. But guess what? when you get to the top of any draft (especially one with this type of talent) teams want the 'perfect' prospect. It is why he has a shot to make it to us. If I was one of would be tempted to take the likes of a few Qbs, Clowney,Mack,or one of the 3OTs, maybe Gilbert.



: P

Teams don't want the perfect prospect because they know their is no such thing. In fact, the draft is so interesting because no one really agrees on every player. They have heated discussions when it comes to grading and ranking players on their board.

Think about it. You're taking scouts who are away 200 plus days out of the year from their families to scout different schools in their region. You're living out of your suitcase and motels, and doing reports. Then you meet up and watch tape again and compile a list. You could be the guy from the Northeast region who saw and liked Donald. I could be the southern region, who after reading the report and seeing him may not like him.

There is no perfect prospect. It comes down to can you coach the flaws of each prospect up. Hence you can't coach height, and speed. If the guy is damn slow, no amount of coaching can speed him up. If a prospect is short then no amount of coaching can increase his height. You want to be able to coach a prospects weaknesses.

It depends though. If they see Donald as a once in a decade player, then you take him, especially if Nick F. isn't in your long term plans. You would NOT take Donald over Gilbert? You put Gilbert for them because its a need. Well we NEED offense, and DT isn't an immediate need. However, you like him so much you say BPA there, and then go offense later. How does that work? If Donald is THAT good he may go a lot sooner then. What if all that love for Donald is a moot point because he goes early? Uh ohs...
Anyone on here  
RH : 4/8/2014 3:06 pm : link
like Jarvis Landry if he lasts to the 3rd round? It could happen. To me, he's a step slower than his teammate, Odell Beckam Jr, but Landry seems more physical. I see some Hakeem Nicks in his game while watching his highlight videos. I'd like to know what everyone else thinks about him.
here is video  
RH : 4/8/2014 3:08 pm : link
the man
Link - ( New Window )
Randle is not an UFA  
djstat : 4/8/2014 3:44 pm : link
Until after 2015.
RE: GD,  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 4:21 pm : link
In comment 11611314 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
In comment 11611277 GmenDynasty said:


Quote:


In comment 11611188 AnishPatel said:


Quote:


Maybe but remember, Donald is a one in a decade player, so why wouldn't they draft him? They can get a CB in later rounds, and draft Donald and stick him next to Suh. Wouldn't that be nice to see?



LOL I do feel he is that good Anish. But guess what? when you get to the top of any draft (especially one with this type of talent) teams want the 'perfect' prospect. It is why he has a shot to make it to us. If I was one of would be tempted to take the likes of a few Qbs, Clowney,Mack,or one of the 3OTs, maybe Gilbert.




: P

Teams don't want the perfect prospect because they know their is no such thing. In fact, the draft is so interesting because no one really agrees on every player. They have heated discussions when it comes to grading and ranking players on their board.

Think about it. You're taking scouts who are away 200 plus days out of the year from their families to scout different schools in their region. You're living out of your suitcase and motels, and doing reports. Then you meet up and watch tape again and compile a list. You could be the guy from the Northeast region who saw and liked Donald. I could be the southern region, who after reading the report and seeing him may not like him.

There is no perfect prospect. It comes down to can you coach the flaws of each prospect up. Hence you can't coach height, and speed. If the guy is damn slow, no amount of coaching can speed him up. If a prospect is short then no amount of coaching can increase his height. You want to be able to coach a prospects weaknesses.

It depends though. If they see Donald as a once in a decade player, then you take him, especially if Nick F. isn't in your long term plans. You would NOT take Donald over Gilbert? You put Gilbert for them because its a need. Well we NEED offense, and DT isn't an immediate need. However, you like him so much you say BPA there, and then go offense later. How does that work? If Donald is THAT good he may go a lot sooner then. What if all that love for Donald is a moot point because he goes early? Uh ohs...


I hear you. I just think there are enough 'stud' blue-chip guys out there that'd make you think twice about Donald's size if you were picking top 10.

Clowney,Watkins,Evans,Lewan,Matthews,Robinson,Mack even Gilbert most are guys that have more prototypical or even freak size for their positions. And most those guys have enough production to make you beleive they won't be long term projects either. Combine that with 3-4 QBs likely to go (because most every draft the Qb is seen as the frnachise savior and sometimes overdrafted)...he has a good shot to make it to us.

In a softer draft, Donald unquestionably goes alot earlier b/c his truly rare production for a DT would be too hard to ignore.
Okay  
AnishPatel : 4/8/2014 4:33 pm : link
after 2015, then JJ and Mario next year would be UFA? Correct?
GD,  
AnishPatel : 4/8/2014 5:54 pm : link

Yeah they may have freak size, but you keep touting production. So if Donald is as good as you say then teams may go for production. Maybe the Lions go that route or any other team. Hopefully they do so it's a moot point when we are on the clock then.

Also, I think it depends on how we see Donald. Is he a 3 down DT? Do we rotate him, only on pass rushing, 3rd down, situations? How do we use him?

I'd be curious to see. Obviously not curious enough to draft him, but just thinking how would I play a DT like that.
Reese  
TMS : 4/8/2014 6:32 pm : link
may see Evans as the #1 WR that ELI and the offense has been missing. Then go out and get him by trading up if necessary. He did it for Barden in the draft of 2009. This is a big move, but JR is on the hot seat this year to deliver. Do not count it out.
Graziano's article seems to suggest he thinks its only necessary  
baadbill : 4/8/2014 6:46 pm : link
to focus on the top two receivers ... if so, I think he's dead wrong ... Giants/Manning did best with Nicks/Cruz/Manningham all playing on full cylinders ... a trio that gave secondaries fits ...

and IMO the Giants need a top flight trio for their offense to dominate ... indeed, if I understand the likely concepts of the new offense, there's likely to be more 4 wr sets than 2 wr sets... if he's high on their board, the Giants will get the most "bang for the buck" from a WR this year than any other position... I think a #1 WR - together with what they've done (and will do) on the OL, and the Giants are competitive (a top 10 team) in 2014.
RE: GD,  
GmenDynasty : 4/8/2014 9:47 pm : link
In comment 11611587 AnishPatel said:
Quote:

Yeah they may have freak size, but you keep touting production. So if Donald is as good as you say then teams may go for production. Maybe the Lions go that route or any other team. Hopefully they do so it's a moot point when we are on the clock then.

Also, I think it depends on how we see Donald. Is he a 3 down DT? Do we rotate him, only on pass rushing, 3rd down, situations? How do we use him?

I'd be curious to see. Obviously not curious enough to draft him, but just thinking how would I play a DT like that.


You are correct, they may go for the amazing production and like what they see on tape so much that they dont worry about a couple inches of height. I am banking in this super deep draft and with a few qbs going before us, that Donald WILL make it to 12.
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